Question about Kindergarten, please read

[mommaU4]

Just wanted to say thanks to all for the great info.
I think since I can't change the schedules I'm going to have to make the best of it. I am going to go to some of the teacher stores like suggested and also do some Google searches and see what I come up with. Maybe do some searches on home-schooling. That might give me some good references or ideas. Thanks again!

 

[Tigger&Belle]

Welcome to the world of education We teachers fight that battle every day.

Yeah, I know, but this schedule takes the cake! I honestly had never heard of anything so crazy.

 

[disykat]

Too bad that money wins out with the school district at the expense of the kids.

The "school district" is not always the bad guy. In our area it is the voters. No one wants to pay taxes so they vote no on every levy or bond. We have half day and if we fail another levy I can see busses being eliminated - which would put us on the every other day schedule too. Kindergarten midday busses run at a very low occupancy rate and would be the first to go. Activity busses don't exist in our district and morning and afternoon bus routes have already been consolidated to the point of FULL.

I'm amazed that so few people have heard of this schedule. In my state it's what happens in "poor" districts where people continually vote down school funding. By "poor" I mean districts that don't pass school levys and that's pretty much the entire state with the exception of some wealthy pockets.

 

[the kabuki]

With regards to the midday busing, if that's such an expense for the district, why not have parent pickup like they do with nursery and preschool? At least for the midday times?

DD4 attends preschool at our public elementary and goes 3 days a week 9-11:45. They even hold classes when there's a in-service day or conference days when the upper elementary kids are not there.

If this were my schedule, I would be down at the board office and board meetings raising a big stink. Talk with the other parent's in class, they can't be too happy with this either. Go down as a group to all the board meetings, don't let up. The squeaky wheel gets the grease as they say.

 

[golfgal]

OP -- out of curiousity, are the children sounding out words and reading by the time they leave Kdg., or are they learning that in 1st grade?

I ask b/c it is mandatory that my students are sounding out words and reading by the time they leave my Kdg. class.

How in the heck to you make something like this "mandatory"? Not every child is ready to read at that level. I know most of them are but do they hold the kids back that can't yet? Just because someone wants something to happen doesn't mean it will.

Our district switched to all day/every day kindergarten the year before our twins started kindergarten (they are now in 5th grade). At first I wasn't all that thrilled with it (they did half day/every day before) but once we got into it, they loved it. We thought they should save the 1/2 day schedule for the high school seniors, that made more sense to us since the kindergartners wanted to be in school and the seniors didn't .

 

[aprilgail2]

I can not even imagine if my daughter had a screwy schedule like that...its just nuts!! Its a logistical nightmare for working parents thats for sure! My daughter went full time kindergarten and she loved it.....how in the world to arrange before and after care wit ha schedule like the one you have...eggg!! And not only that..it would toatlly screw my daughter up at that age..my daughter knew that she went to school 5 days in a row then had off....the weeks they throw a holiday in or 2 really screwed her up...

 

[Daxx]

How in the heck to you make something like this "mandatory"? Not every child is ready to read at that level. I know most of them are but do they hold the kids back that can't yet? Just because someone wants something to happen doesn't mean it will.

You have to remember, I'm not making the rules and I'm not the one who makes it mandatory -- it's the state and/or the school. My students are tested in reading at the end of the year. If they cannot sound out simple words (cat, gum, hat, go, in, and, etc.), they are requested to take a summer program to "catch them up" at a local college. At the end of August, those who need to are retested for reading. If they still cannot sound out words, they are held back in Kdg. And, This is how it's made mandatory. In 1st grade, students are expected to be reading and if they can't sound out words, they will not be able to make it through the first semester of 1st grade what with spelling tests, reading tests, etc. Sounding out words, as opposed to memorizing them, is the cornerstone of reading. I am only going by what my state and school require. I have no say in the matter.

 

[aprilgail2]

And, This is how it's made mandatory. In 1st grade, students are expected to be reading and if they can't sound out words, they will not be able to make it through the first semester of 1st grade what with spelling tests, reading tests, etc. Sounding out words, as opposed to memorizing them, is the cornerstone of reading. I am only going by what my state and school require. I have no say in the matter.

I am from NY and our state sure doesn't require that...most of he kids in my daughters kindergarten class could not read and they all went to first grade where the whole first semester is geared towards learning to read...almost the whole class is now reading with the exception of 2 kids who's parents don't work with them on it...
There is no way in hell I would send my daughter to a summer program in kindergarten to learn to read....I would be up at the school board shouting my brains out before that would happen! Nothing like your kid thinking they are a failure at 5 years old in kindergarten!

 

[cepmom]

You have to remember, I'm not making the rules and I'm not the one who makes it mandatory -- it's the state and/or the school. My students are tested in reading at the end of the year. If they cannot sound out simple words (cat, gum, hat, go, in, and, etc.), they are requested to take a summer program to "catch them up" at a local college. At the end of August, those who need to are retested for reading. If they still cannot sound out words, they are held back in Kdg. And, This is how it's made mandatory. In 1st grade, students are expected to be reading and if they can't sound out words, they will not be able to make it through the first semester of 1st grade what with spelling tests, reading tests, etc. Sounding out words, as opposed to memorizing them, is the cornerstone of reading. I am only going by what my state and school require. I have no say in the matter.

not saying you make up the rules here, but what about the kids that are learning diabled ~ the kids with IEP's? They will be held back because they have difficulty reading? Aren't there any exceptions made for the kids on IEP's? It doesn't sound right to me to hold a kid back especially if they have a learning disability.

 

[aprilgail2]

not saying you make up the rules here, but what about the kids that are learning diabled ~ the kids with IEP's? They will be held back because they have difficulty reading? Aren't there any exceptions made for the kids on IEP's? It doesn't sound right to me to hold a kid back especially if they have a learning disability.

My neighbor teaches in the Jr high and he said this year was crazy with all the kids and IEP's..he said usually there are one or 2 kids in his class with them but this year he has 18 kids in 2 different classes that have them and more than normal in his other classes too..he said that so many more kids are getting them and it is really getting overwhelming....what are the requirements they have to getting these??

 

[golfgal]

You have to remember, I'm not making the rules and I'm not the one who makes it mandatory -- it's the state and/or the school. My students are tested in reading at the end of the year. If they cannot sound out simple words (cat, gum, hat, go, in, and, etc.), they are requested to take a summer program to "catch them up" at a local college. At the end of August, those who need to are retested for reading. If they still cannot sound out words, they are held back in Kdg. And, This is how it's made mandatory. In 1st grade, students are expected to be reading and if they can't sound out words, they will not be able to make it through the first semester of 1st grade what with spelling tests, reading tests, etc. Sounding out words, as opposed to memorizing them, is the cornerstone of reading. I am only going by what my state and school require. I have no say in the matter.

I know you aren't the one making the rules. Obviously this one is made by someone that doesn't have kids! So, if a child is above grade level in every other subject, except reading, they get held back? That is a lot of pressure for a 6 year old. Looking at our kids' classes, maybe 1/2 the kids were reading at the end of kindergarten. They knew the letter sounds and most could recognize some common words, but not all. By Halloween in 1st grade, they were all reading age appropriate books or better except those with some learning difficulties. Our oldest could probably read at the end of kindergarten but we didn't know that. He comes home the first week of 1st grade and was reading books. We figured he had memorized them from the teacher reading them but they had a list of words in the books on the back cover and he could tell us what they all were. You don't really "learn" to read, something clicks in your brain that allows you to be able to read.

 

[powellrj]

When my DD was in K we had the tues/thurs every other friday schedule. They were called teams. White team had tues/ thrus every other friday and Red team had mon/ weds/ everyother friday. She is now in the 4th grade.

Its a working parents nighmare, but most childcare places allow for it. I know the after school program we had used set their program up to follow this schedule.

Our teachers acually like the schedule compared to the old one. With the old one they went to school 8:15 - 10:45 and during that time you had specials such as art, music, PE and recess. Then you had to add lunch and bathroom time. There really wasn't much time left for classroom time. Now they have 2 whole days a week and can get much more done during this time. When you have short weeks due to weather days and holidays it makes it harder, but once you get use to it, its not that bad.

While the perfect idea would be 5 days a week full time, many people don't want that and this was a compromise.

 

[cepmom]

My neighbor teaches in the Jr high and he said this year was crazy with all the kids and IEP's..he said usually there are one or 2 kids in his class with them but this year he has 18 kids in 2 different classes that have them and more than normal in his other classes too..he said that so many more kids are getting them and it is really getting overwhelming....what are the requirements they have to getting these??

not sure on all the requirements for IEP's ~ my youngest DD was on an IEP for 2 years for speech therapy and occupational therapy from age 3 - 5, but she has met all her goals and is no longer on an IEP (yay!) She was tested by the school department when she turned three because she had been getting speech therapy through Early Intervention and that stops when a child turns 3.

As for older school age kids ~ I don't have any first hand experience with that, but my friend has a 3rd grader that has been on an IEP since the end of 1st grade. The 1st grade teacher recognized some difficulties and recommended that she be tested. I don't know the specifics of her learinng difficulties, excpet that reading is a big problem for her and I know she wasn't reading by the end of Kindergarten. Holding her back would not have helped her...she needs to see a specialist to help her with reading.

 

[Tigger&Belle]

Around here at least IEPs are not easy to come by and they need documentation to show their need. My 15yo probably could have used one--ADHD and Tourette's caused some difficulties in school, but we didn't pursue it because the teachers generally gave us what we wanted without it. IE, he sometimes needed a break during class and was allowed unlimited bathroom breaks, just so he could have a change of scenery to regroup so he could focus again. The only thing an IEP could have maybe done would to have allowed him more test taking time or extra time to do morning warm-up type activities since those were a challenge. He still struggles with some of these things, but in general seems to have worked through them.

As to reading by the end of kindergarten, our district has a goal that all the kids be reading a "level 3" book by the end of K. I think it's a pretty basic book, but not really sure becuase my son is now reading level 5 (which is fairly basic, also). I'm not sure what the schools recommend if they are not reading a level 3 by the end of K. I don't think that they would retain if all the other skills are good, but I'm really not sure.

I do know that all the kids in his class know their letters and the sounds they make. There are a few who are being worked with by a specialist to bring them up to speed in prereading skills, but at least they seem to have the basics. There are a few in the school who need help with the very basics, but not many.

It's interesting how different the K programs are across the the country. In our county the goal is to have all the Ks all day in a year or two.

 

[The Mystery Machine]

But I'm scared my girls are getting short changed on their education and don't know what to do about it. Any one else have any experience with this? I don't like it but feel helpless. I can't force the school to change their schedules.

That does sound very stupid, but you can't change it. So I think doing supplemental education at home is a terrific answer.


Also do not forget to do outings. Going places is priceless and kids absorb so much when you do hands on learning!!!
Good Luck!

 

[KAMLEM]

Are there any options in your area for private kindergarten? That's what a lot of the parents in our town did because kindergarten here is half days and it was hard for them to work when their kids were home at noon every day. The private kindergartens and charter schools are full days so it makes it easier for them. I didn't like the half days. By the time they got into school and got settled they had very little classroom time. My daughters had longer days in preschool than in kindergarten.

I don't agree with keeping a child back because they struggle in one area. My daughter was advanced in terms of reading when she was in kindergarten so we thought things were great. When she got to first grade we found out that she was really struggling with comprehension. She was so focused on reading the words and getting through books that she wasn't understanding what she was reading. At the end of the year her teacher suggested that she stay back because of this. In every other subject she was doing great. We really struggled with the decision but it just didn't feel right to us. She is always the youngest one in her class and I believed that she just needed a little time. The guidance counselor told us that if it didn't feel right we shouldn't do it so we didn't. Now she is in fourth grade and she is doing fine. Comprehension is something she needs to constantly work on but keeping her back a year would not have changed that. There are so many kids in her school that are kept back and I believe that a lot of it has to do with MCAS. The principal doesn't want the kids getting poor MCAS grades because it reflects on her so I think they are too quick to keep the kids back. In my daughter's first grade class the teacher recommended that 28% of the students stay back. That number sounds outrageous to me.

 

[massielovesdisney]

You may want to suggest to the school that a set amount of days throughout the year are set aside for K-makeup days. So that if a particular class has been short changed they will be the ones to attend on those designated days. If the missed days are equal then they will be alternated between the two classes. My DS has 1/2 day 5 days a week. I hate it because you can't do anything for the whole day. Not enough time before catching the bus then not enough time while in school, If you run behind and are not at the bus stop to get your child off the bus they take them back to school. If this happens 2 or 3 times they notify Children & Youth Services for parental neglect so I'm too scared to run errands while DS is in school. I would love fewer whole days that way when child attends full day next year they are already in the habit of a full day and getting up early. But your situation is not ideal. Your child's education is suffering. Best of Luck!

 

[SRUAlmn]

This is so interesting to see how other programs are run around the country. Especially because I grew up outside of Pittsburgh and just moved from Maryland, so I am familiar with what those of you from those areas have been saying.

I agree, to the OP, that since it's not something that will most likely change (at least not while your DDs are in K) then the best thing you can do is work with them at home to help them succeed. Not to overgeneralize, but there is usually a risk with twins to lag behind a little. I have 1 each from 2 sets of twins in my class and they are my lowest 2 kids. Their twins in the other classes are the lowest in their classes as well.

As for the district/state mandated reading by the end of Kindergarten, our school is a Title 1 school, and we have extremely high standards placed on us to get the kids reading by the end of K. We have core word (sight word) lists that they must know by Christmas, and we do a phonics program called SRA every day with them grouped by level. We have a LOT of pressure on us as teachers, and we try not to pass it down to the kids, but I don't know that our school holds them back if they don't reach that goal. Especially if they are excelling in other areas.

 

[Daxx]

I am from NY and our state sure doesn't require that...most of he kids in my daughters kindergarten class could not read and they all went to first grade where the whole first semester is geared towards learning to read...almost the whole class is now reading with the exception of 2 kids who's parents don't work with them on it...
There is no way in hell I would send my daughter to a summer program in kindergarten to learn to read....I would be up at the school board shouting my brains out before that would happen! Nothing like your kid thinking they are a failure at 5 years old in kindergarten!

Hey -- don't blame me, it's not my personal policy. And, I never said I agreed w/it. It's school policy and I am at a parochial school and we're Title 1, too.

ETA - I have two IEP's in my class for the first time this year. Both come w/huge problems that I won't get into and, b/c of those huge problems, they were able to be tested in pre-K. Anyway, they both get additional reading help. Therefore, they get double the reading that my other students get.

I don't know what will happen as I've never had IEP's in my class before. In my area, you cannot get a child in for evaluation unless they're in Kdg.! Therefore, if they come to me w/a problem, and I file the paper work in Sept. or Oct., they won't receive testing until after the new year. By the time they are tested and have the hearing, it'll be spring. Usually, we don't get many in Kdg. w/IEP's as they're not diagnosed until much later in the school year. Also, any students w/IEP's tend to go to the public schools where they can get more help. For example, I have one student w/an IEP 2 inches thick. He should be getting OT and Speech Therapy every day, he should be in an 8:1:1 class (8 students, one teacher and one teacher's aide PLUS his own, personal aide). My school cannot afford an aide for me and certainly cannot provide a personal aide for my student. And, my class has more than 8 students. We don't have an OT program and Speech teacher comes in once a week. His parents don't want him in the public school b/c they don't want him in special ed. He's in my school and I am dealing w/it as best I can. I am not a SPE teacher and that's what this child needs, according to his IEP. Again, parents w/special needs or IEP kids usually choose not to send them to our school b/c we aren't equipped to handle them w/the appropriate programs.

 

[KAMLEM]

I doubt very much that they could keep a kid back for not meeting those goals in MA because kindergarten isn't even mandatory. It wouldn't be fair to keep some back while others aren't even attending. Since they aren't tested nobody would know what they are capable of doing by first grade. Personally, I don't understand why anyone wouldn't enroll their child in kindergarten. Every child that I know started preschool when they were three.