Purchased HHI Resale, Not Planning on Staying There

DonMacGregor

Sub Leader
Joined
May 13, 2021
A few thoughts for the collective mind.

I just purchased a 200 point contract at HHI for $78 per point, use year February, and contrary to most opinions, I don't plan on ever going there (well, never say never). I've heard over and over, "buy where you want to stay", and all of the other points re: on-property resorts at WDW. Here are my thoughts:

First, I'm 57 years old so getting 30 or more years out of a DVC membership isn't a deal breaker. Re-assessing in a few years and making a change won't kill me. Second, as a former cast member, I really enjoy a quiet Park, so all of our trips from So Cal to Florida have been in the late winter or very early spring. We like the late January to mid-May timeframe, but are always flexible. I actually prefer Florida in the off season periods anyway (always good weather back at home). Third, we like us some space, so we'll never be looking for anything smaller than a one-bedroom, with a preference for two-bedrooms. I'd prefer 4 or 5 days in a bigger room, over 8 or 9 days in a studio any time. Based on a good bit of reading, studios go lightning fast at 7 months, but bigger rooms at higher point values are typically much more readily available.

Lastly, the financial differences weren't all that dramatic (at least not considering the relatively low cost for the points). As I said, I paid $78 for a 200 point contract, or $15,600.00. OKW has been hovering around $120 to $125 (depending on stripping and use year), or around $25,000 for 200 points, and SSR is right about that same $25,000 for 200 points. As to maintenance fees, the dramatic differences of the past seem to have narrowed a bit. While HHI is still WAY up there at $9.97 per point ($1,994 per year), OKW is only $322 less per year at $1,672, and SSR is admittedly significantly lower at $1,422 per year ($572 less). With the $10k savings on the points, it will take a good stretch to eat up that additional maintenance fees (hurricanes always a possibility). Even assuming a modest annual increase in fees, the break-even point is still WAY beyond ten years. As I said before, I can always dump the contract later, and it's not a HUGE amount of money (especially when you're talking about some direct contracts costing 2 or 3 times as much. Sinking $30k into a contract and not having the 11-month window would be a whole different story.

What kind of got me to thinking this way is seeing the prices points sold for out here in Anaheim at Grand Californian. Isolated on the West Coast, it's virtually in the same situation as HHI or VBR, but members there are holding on to points they paid $250 direct (and even resale), but are in the same boat when it comes to booking WDW DVC rooms as HHI, VBR, and Aulani.

I guess in summary, the 11-month booking window isn't a deal breaker as we are flexible on dates, we like visiting in the offseason, and there really isn't a resort on property that I would have a problem staying at, so 7 months out and happy to stay in a one or two bedroom villa seems to be very practical. The fees issue certainly isn't something I'm turning a blind eye to. As I said, if I feel like I'm seeing fees go up too quickly, or disproportionally, then the contract may require some reassessment. For now, I've got that $10k still invested in other securities making money, versus what could (or even possibly will) happen to fees in the future (and even then, it's going to be a few years before that even gets close to breaking even, if I'm in the contract that long).

For sure, I think all of the usual comments on buying HHI are extremely valid and of great merit and definitely need to be given value by anyone looking to buy at any resort. Just wanted to present a slightly different perspective. :idea:

Flame away! LOL
 

Marionnette

Children see magic because they look for it
Joined
Sep 26, 2009
A few thoughts for the collective mind.

I just purchased a 200 point contract at HHI for $78 per point, use year February, and contrary to most opinions, I don't plan on ever going there (well, never say never). I've heard over and over, "buy where you want to stay", and all of the other points re: on-property resorts at WDW. Here are my thoughts:

First, I'm 57 years old so getting 30 or more years out of a DVC membership isn't a deal breaker. Re-assessing in a few years and making a change won't kill me. Second, as a former cast member, I really enjoy a quiet Park, so all of our trips from So Cal to Florida have been in the late winter or very early spring. We like the late January to mid-May timeframe, but are always flexible. I actually prefer Florida in the off season periods anyway (always good weather back at home). Third, we like us some space, so we'll never be looking for anything smaller than a one-bedroom, with a preference for two-bedrooms. I'd prefer 4 or 5 days in a bigger room, over 8 or 9 days in a studio any time. Based on a good bit of reading, studios go lightning fast at 7 months, but bigger rooms at higher point values are typically much more readily available.

Lastly, the financial differences weren't all that dramatic (at least not considering the relatively low cost for the points). As I said, I paid $78 for a 200 point contract, or $15,600.00. OKW has been hovering around $120 to $125 (depending on stripping and use year), or around $25,000 for 200 points, and SSR is right about that same $25,000 for 200 points. As to maintenance fees, the dramatic differences of the past seem to have narrowed a bit. While HHI is still WAY up there at $9.97 per point ($1,994 per year), OKW is only $322 less per year at $1,672, and SSR is admittedly significantly lower at $1,422 per year ($572 less). With the $10k savings on the points, it will take a good stretch to eat up that additional maintenance fees (hurricanes always a possibility). Even assuming a modest annual increase in fees, the break-even point is still WAY beyond ten years. As I said before, I can always dump the contract later, and it's not a HUGE amount of money (especially when you're talking about some direct contracts costing 2 or 3 times as much. Sinking $30k into a contract and not having the 11-month window would be a whole different story.

What kind of got me to thinking this way is seeing the prices points sold for out here in Anaheim at Grand Californian. Isolated on the West Coast, it's virtually in the same situation as HHI or VBR, but members there are holding on to points they paid $250 direct (and even resale), but are in the same boat when it comes to booking WDW DVC rooms as HHI, VBR, and Aulani.

I guess in summary, the 11-month booking window isn't a deal breaker as we are flexible on dates, we like visiting in the offseason, and there really isn't a resort on property that I would have a problem staying at, so 7 months out and happy to stay in a one or two bedroom villa seems to be very practical. The fees issue certainly isn't something I'm turning a blind eye to. As I said, if I feel like I'm seeing fees go up too quickly, or disproportionally, then the contract may require some reassessment. For now, I've got that $10k still invested in other securities making money, versus what could (or even possibly will) happen to fees in the future (and even then, it's going to be a few years before that even gets close to breaking even, if I'm in the contract that long).

For sure, I think all of the usual comments on buying HHI are extremely valid and of great merit and definitely need to be given value by anyone looking to buy at any resort. Just wanted to present a slightly different perspective. :idea:

Flame away! LOL
No flames. Just Welcome Home and best of luck with your plan. People purchase sleep around points all of the time and use them successfully.
 

DonMacGregor

Sub Leader
Joined
May 13, 2021
I think the difference is not stressing about getting that sweet sweet studio at Kidani Village the week between Christmas and New Years. Going in with the attitude of "whatever is there is there, or we'll pick a different date" eases things. Anyway, I like to sleep around....:rolleyes1
 

happythoughts & pixiedust

Earning My Ears
DVC Gold
Joined
Feb 5, 2021
For now, I've got that $10k still invested in other securities making money
There is absolutely nothing wrong with your strategy. Your above sentence is the key - as your net return on this excess cash increases, the delta in cost per point with the "cheaper alternative resorts (most people would say SSR)" decreases.

If you have a reasonably high risk tolerance and your investments are aggressively positioned such that you anticipate or expect a high rate of return on them, then the cheaper resorts with high annual dues (Hilton Head, Vero) start to make more sense. There's no way to tell for sure, but if that extra 10k performs very well over the length of your contract, you will come out ahead of buying something like SSR that costs more upfront but is expected to have a lower cost per point over the life of the contract. This would be the case for the previous 10 years had you been invested in the Nasdaq 100 index (QQQ), which has returned somewhere around 19% compounded annually every year for the last 10 years. If your investments perform that well over the next 10 there is no question you're better off putting that 10k to work in the market.

Conversely, if the market does terrible over the next 10 years, a more expensive (upfront) contract with a longer expiration will end up being the better bet (VGF, CCV, BLT, PVB) because the excess market cash won't produce as much in returns and the longer contracts will have better resale value - especially at 21 years when HHI is guaranteed to be worth 0.

There are so many variables (market performance, overall inflation rate, dues inflation at each resort, resale value, where you invest any additional upfront cash saved by buying a lower cost per point resort) that it is impossible to predict which contract will end up being the best deal. So if you don't mind staying wherever is available and you're looking for 1 beds (which will be easier to find) and you like the idea of having the flexibility of keeping that extra cash liquid and not tied up in a DVC contract, your strategy makes a lot of sense.
 

RoseGold

DIS Veteran
Joined
Jan 21, 2020
I considered an Aulani contract with no plans to ever go to Aulani, until I read the all the historic changes in Hawaii laws, which didn't seem to benefit owners IMO. I don't know anything about SC timeshare law, but I would if I planned to buy real estate there and force my estate to probate there.

For my money, I wouldn't buy anywhere but Florida. Maybe your crystal ball is different than mine.

I actually have considered this strategy for Vero Beach, but the contracts are overpriced for what I want in my SAP. So, instead I have SSR, which I will never go to, bought in the 90s, love those cheap dues.
 
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hhisc16

DHHIR owner
Joined
Feb 21, 2021
A few thoughts for the collective mind.

I just purchased a 200 point contract at HHI for $78 per point, use year February, and contrary to most opinions, I don't plan on ever going there (well, never say never). I've heard over and over, "buy where you want to stay", and all of the other points re: on-property resorts at WDW. Here are my thoughts:

First, I'm 57 years old so getting 30 or more years out of a DVC membership isn't a deal breaker. Re-assessing in a few years and making a change won't kill me. Second, as a former cast member, I really enjoy a quiet Park, so all of our trips from So Cal to Florida have been in the late winter or very early spring. We like the late January to mid-May timeframe, but are always flexible. I actually prefer Florida in the off season periods anyway (always good weather back at home). Third, we like us some space, so we'll never be looking for anything smaller than a one-bedroom, with a preference for two-bedrooms. I'd prefer 4 or 5 days in a bigger room, over 8 or 9 days in a studio any time. Based on a good bit of reading, studios go lightning fast at 7 months, but bigger rooms at higher point values are typically much more readily available.

Lastly, the financial differences weren't all that dramatic (at least not considering the relatively low cost for the points). As I said, I paid $78 for a 200 point contract, or $15,600.00. OKW has been hovering around $120 to $125 (depending on stripping and use year), or around $25,000 for 200 points, and SSR is right about that same $25,000 for 200 points. As to maintenance fees, the dramatic differences of the past seem to have narrowed a bit. While HHI is still WAY up there at $9.97 per point ($1,994 per year), OKW is only $322 less per year at $1,672, and SSR is admittedly significantly lower at $1,422 per year ($572 less). With the $10k savings on the points, it will take a good stretch to eat up that additional maintenance fees (hurricanes always a possibility). Even assuming a modest annual increase in fees, the break-even point is still WAY beyond ten years. As I said before, I can always dump the contract later, and it's not a HUGE amount of money (especially when you're talking about some direct contracts costing 2 or 3 times as much. Sinking $30k into a contract and not having the 11-month window would be a whole different story.

What kind of got me to thinking this way is seeing the prices points sold for out here in Anaheim at Grand Californian. Isolated on the West Coast, it's virtually in the same situation as HHI or VBR, but members there are holding on to points they paid $250 direct (and even resale), but are in the same boat when it comes to booking WDW DVC rooms as HHI, VBR, and Aulani.

I guess in summary, the 11-month booking window isn't a deal breaker as we are flexible on dates, we like visiting in the offseason, and there really isn't a resort on property that I would have a problem staying at, so 7 months out and happy to stay in a one or two bedroom villa seems to be very practical. The fees issue certainly isn't something I'm turning a blind eye to. As I said, if I feel like I'm seeing fees go up too quickly, or disproportionally, then the contract may require some reassessment. For now, I've got that $10k still invested in other securities making money, versus what could (or even possibly will) happen to fees in the future (and even then, it's going to be a few years before that even gets close to breaking even, if I'm in the contract that long).

For sure, I think all of the usual comments on buying HHI are extremely valid and of great merit and definitely need to be given value by anyone looking to buy at any resort. Just wanted to present a slightly different perspective. :idea:

Flame away! LOL
If you live within driving distance of HHI, it may be worth trying it out for a visit.:car:
DHHIR is a very nice resort, but different vibe than WDW resorts.
Welcome Home!
 

Fauntleroy

Der Donaldist
Joined
Dec 1, 2011
The whole “Lowcountry” area (i.e. roughly Charleston, SC to Jacksonville, FL) is very special IMHO. Spectacular beauty, wonderful food, and culture. So many great places to go like Charleston, Kiawah, Hilton Head (Disney!), Savannah, St. Simons/Sea Island, Amelia Island, etc. Strongly recommend a visit. My sister lives in SoCal- and her kids insist on coming every year. Nice change of pace from Cali (which is also great!). With the benefit of the 11 month window you should try DHHIR one May or June.

Regardless- congrats on the close!
 

DonMacGregor

Sub Leader
Joined
May 13, 2021
The whole “Lowcountry” area (i.e. roughly Charleston, SC to Jacksonville, FL) is very special IMHO. Spectacular beauty, wonderful food, and culture. So many great places to go like Charleston, Kiawah, Hilton Head (Disney!), Savannah, St. Simons/Sea Island, Amelia Island, etc. Strongly recommend a visit. My sister lives in SoCal- and her kids insist on coming every year. Nice change of pace from Cali (which is also great!). With the benefit of the 11 month window you should try DHHIR one May or June.

Regardless- congrats on the close!
I have a couple of friends who early retired on Amelia Island. Definitely on the short list for visits.
 

AnnaS

DIS Sponsoor/Veteran
Joined
Jul 7, 2001
You gave it a lot of thought. Whatever works best for you is great. Sounds like you made a great decision since you are flexible, not concerned which resort you stay at and money wise - you have it all worked out!!!!!

Congratulations and Welcome Home!! Enjoy! Happy planning and definitely consider a visit to Hilton Head!
 
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Sharene0724

Mouseketeer
Joined
Jun 10, 2017
Ha! No flames from here lol, we stay in 1 bedrooms for the most part and I find that availability on those pleasantly surprises me more often than expected :-) I will say I really thought we’d never do HHI but we did get to stay there this year and it was delightful. So enjoy the 1 bedrooms at WDW but if you have some leftover points one year do give HHI a go, it’s a lovely stay. Also congrats and welcome home!!
 

Deb & Bill

DVC-Trivia Contest, Apr-2006: Honorable Mention
Joined
Mar 20, 2000
It all depends on what you consider off season. If you are planning mid-Sept through mid-Jan, oh, well. That is DVC's busiest time and you need to book your home resort at 11 months out. Also Run Disney events, spring break and Easter (plus other holiday weekends.
 

DonMacGregor

Sub Leader
Joined
May 13, 2021
You gave it a lot of thought. Whatever works best for you is great. Sounds like you made a great decision since you are flexible, not concerned which resort you stat at and money wise - you have it all worked out!!!!!

Congratulations and Welcome Home!! Enjoy! Happy planning and definitely consider a visit to Hilton Head!
I tried to look at it from as many angles as possible. The last piece was getting the true low-down on 7-month availability based on our real world preferences and flexibility.
 

DonMacGregor

Sub Leader
Joined
May 13, 2021
It all depends on what you consider off season. If you are planning mid-Sept through mid-Jan, oh, well. That is DVC's busiest time and you need to book your home resort at 11 months out. Also Run Disney events, spring break and Easter (plus other holiday weekends.
I would consider “off-season“ to be dates from early January through mid June for the most part. Skipping Easter and spring break obviously, but that general timeframe.
 

mamaofsix

DIS Veteran
Joined
Feb 8, 2017
Hmmm... now you've really got me thinking. We are in a similar situation - would mostly be needing 2 bedrooms or grand villas so the 11 month window isn't as important. I assumed HHI would be too expensive with the dues, but calculated it out compared to OKW and even after 20 years of dues, it still has us saving money because the initial buy-in is so much cheaper.
 

Sandisw

DVC Forums
Moderator
Joined
Nov 15, 2008
I would consider “off-season“ to be dates from early January through mid June for the most part. Skipping Easter and spring break obviously, but that general timeframe.
Id say finding something is likely then. Prepare for the big 3 and hope for others.
It may take some work and you may need to do split stays, but getting a room on property should be doable most of that time, especially if you are flexible in moving dates a little.
 

DonMacGregor

Sub Leader
Joined
May 13, 2021
Hmmm... now you've really got me thinking. We are in a similar situation - would mostly be needing 2 bedrooms or grand villas so the 11 month window isn't as important. I assumed HHI would be too expensive with the dues, but calculated it out compared to OKW and even after 20 years of dues, it still has us saving money because the initial buy-in is so much cheaper.
Yeah. I think if you fit into that small niche, the numbers do make sense. I think some people just look at the HHI or VBR dues in a vacuum rather than the delta between those dues and other resorts.

Don’t get me wrong, they are higher and over the past couple of years they have increased more than other resorts (although historically it’s not as pronounced). And, there is the hurricane factor.

But, if you look at an extreme example, HHI dues are almost double those at VGC but VGC points are selling at almost 4 times the cost. Even at a more realistic resort like BLT or BWV, you’re talking half the cost per point.
 

DonMacGregor

Sub Leader
Joined
May 13, 2021
Id say finding something is likely then. Prepare for the big 3 and hope for others.
It may take some work and you may need to do split stays, but getting a room on property should be doable most of that time, especially if you are flexible in moving dates a little.
Yeah, it’s funny how folks tend to fall into camps. At the same time, you can have people say “I absolutely love XXX and stay there every trip and won’t stay anywhere else, so it had to be my home resort” while others will warn “if you do XYZ, you’ll find you may have to reserve at the same resorts every time and for me that just doesn’t work”. Lol
 

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