Private School????

[sksjasams]

The problem is that I can give equally strong reasons for the public side. We really do have a great public school program. Here's what I see as the other side.

1) We aren't Catholic.

2) JROTC -- I know he'd love it, I worry about how much encouragement there is for them to choose a military career. The military is 100% out for my kid, because he's got a medical condition they reject for.

3) Arts -- My son has been involved in chorus and drama at his school and loves both. Our public has lots of different choruses, and a theater arts "academy" where they can take up to 2 classes a year for 4 years, with lots and lots of choices like IB Film, and theater production, and of course acting and television productions classes, plus lots of productions every year. Private has good instrumental music and good visual arts, but only 2 chorus options, one audition based ensemble, and no drama classes. They have 2 stage productions a year, at least one of which conflicts with the sport he wants to play.

4) Languages -- private offers Spanish and French. Public offers many more including Arabic. My son has said for several years that he'd like to study Arabic in high school, and study abroad in that part of the world in college.

5) Social Sciences -- this is my son's strongest subject, and there are many more high level classes at public, more AP's etc . . .

6) Sports -- program at private is definitely stronger, but that also means that a lot of kids go there specifically for sports. I worry about playing time for my kid who is talented but average height and plays a sport/position where size counts.

7) Money -- this should be first. I think the tuition workable for us, but we'd have to cut a lot. If he went public my son could do some summer programs on college campuses plus sports camps, drama camps etc . . . He could continue to be in the ski club (it's middle school/high school mixed). We could take trips as a family. If he chooses private all those things would need to be cut.

Aha..the plot thickens..you do bring up some good points. What does your son say about these counterpoints? Has he thought about this side of the coin? Maybe he has and those issues are not as important to him as the ones in your previous post. Hard to say.

In regards to the arts issue...from what I understand kids need to take basically 4 yrs of each of math, english, science, soc studies, and foreign language for college entrance, plus a couple years of phy ed and maybe computers, health, public speaking, etc. required by the high school. I don't think there is that much time for too many electives anyway. On the con side though, 4 years of religion is probably required at the private school, which means one less opportunity for other electives. But again, on the plus side, religious ed is very much like social studies in high school, which he would enjoy.

In regards to arabic...what if he tries it for a year and doesn't even like it? Hard to choose a school based on one class offering. There is definite value in that class if he intends to work in the middle east eventually. Otherwise spanish is the most practical choice for work in the US.

Truly, there are rebuttals for every issue, and then those can be refuted too. You will both need to decide which set of reasonings matter more.

 

[Mickey'snewestfan]

Hmmmm

3) Arts --
4) Languages --
5) Social Sciences --
I combined all these because it's the same basic issue: More choices at the public school. I have two thoughts on this. 1. More doesn't always mean better. In education, I have found that it is really quality over quantity. If the school offers fantastic classes, that's far better than offering more mediocre options. (Not saying the public school is necesarily mediocre.) 2. Your son only has 24 hours in the day and 8 (or so) classes per semester/year. Sit down and figure out realistically what his schedule would look like at each school. What is he REALLY missing out on? Even if the school offers 20 social studies classes, he's probably only realistically going to take 4 or 5 of them. Even if there are a dozen choirs, he's only going to participate in 1 or 2 of them. So if the lack of options means he's missing out on something he would really like to do (perhaps arabic), than that's a potential problem. If it's just a matter of 'it would be nice to have more choices' than I really wouldn't be overly concerned.

This is my biggest hesitation. Both schools are 7 classes a semester, with English, Math, Science, Social Studies, and World Language taking up 5 of the periods. At the public school he could then take 2 periods of arts (say show choir and TV production or chamber chorus and IB film studies) for all 4 years. Or he could take one period of arts and something like creative writing, or journalism, or a second social science, or a computer class.

At private, the 2 additional classes would be religion (required) and JROTC (elective, but it's a major part of why he wants to go). They have a program where they can move one class to the summer, so that kids don't have to choose between JROTC and an art, but he'd still run out of performing arts classes after 2 years, unless he took up an instrument. In addition the class the school offers in the summer is social studies, and there's no honors or AP option in the summer. I need to ask if he could take the summer classes at our public school, as they do offer science as well as online AP classes. So there is a pretty substantial difference in what his course schedule would look like between the two schools.

 

[clutter]

The situation here is a little reversed. The private is high school only, with kids coming from all over the area. There's not a handful of "feeder" schools like some privates, so all the freshmen are on equal footing. Our public is one middle school feeding to one high school. He's at the middle school, but has only been there for 2 years and find that many of the kids are still really close to the kids they went to elementary school with.

I'm thinking that this may be the reason he's so gung ho for the private school. We had two middles feeding into high school (and one of them was split to two high schools, so it was more like 1 1/2). Among the girls (don't track boys), there was a lot of re-shuffling of friendships. I think that the big divide were sports, activities and the party v. non-party crowd. Honestly, as an entering freshman, my dd would not have wanted that. By 1/2 was thru the year, she was wishing for a school that would be a fresh start like that.

 

[Mkrop]

I have to agree with DopeyDame about the religion option, we had several nonCatholics and it was never an issue. We also had the World Religions class that exposed me to many religions, something I found fascinating and to this day still do. Maybe he is searching for a spiritual connection as well and would like to explore the religious studies, doesnt mean he will become Catholic, it just means he is interested in learning about it.

 

[DopeyDame]

It sounds like you've really done your homework.
Given the electives situation, it sounds like you really need to have a heart-to-heart with your son to make sure he understands what he'd be giving up (the arts classes) vs. what he'd be gaining (jrotc). If he's willing to make that trade, that's great and a very reasonable decision.
To me, it seems a lot easier to "make up" the lack of arts than it is to make up the lack of jrotc. Community theater, evening music classes, community choirs, neighborhood arts programs, etc., are all great options, and often free. The school may even have many of those things in place after school or in the evenings. While JROTC seems nearly impossible to replicate on your own.

I know how hard this is. (I was in a tizzy over DS's preschool choices!) It sounds like you have two really good options, so just trust your gut and your son's desires and I'm sure you'll be great either way.

 

[CTcruiser]

3) Arts -- My son has been involved in chorus and drama at his school and loves both. Our public has lots of different choruses, and a theater arts "academy" where they can take up to 2 classes a year for 4 years, with lots and lots of choices like IB Film, and theater production, and of course acting and television productions classes, plus lots of productions every year. Private has good instrumental music and good visual arts, but only 2 chorus options, one audition based ensemble, and no drama classes. They have 2 stage productions a year, at least one of which conflicts with the sport he wants to play.

"IB Film" stood out to me. I graduated from the IB Program at my school and felt as if I got a private school education in a public high school. The IB Program at my school offered an intimate setting that allowed motivated students to excel. I had smaller classes, knew my peers, knew my teachers, and was prepared for the workload that I got going on to a University. I highly recommend looking into the IB program at your school.

 

[asta]

Even though I live in what is one of the very best school districts in my state I chose to send my daughters to a private school for grades 6-12. The school was not Catholic but did have a religious aspect. Their philosophy was that students should be developed in body, mind and spirit. The biggest reason I left public schools is because I think they have been taken over by special interest groups on both the high and low end of the education spectrum. Public schools here do a great job with handicap children who need to learn slower by giving individual assistance and small class size. On the other end there are students whose parents have lobbied hard for what they consider 'gifted'. Most of these students are selected for the gifted program during first grade and it is very rare for other students to break into their very protected group. (In first grade you are dealing with readiness to learn issues and older children who begin school later. Way too young to be putting a label on most children.) Those students get first choice at all academic courses and are also taught in smaller classes. Then we wonder why they are doing better. What we found is that everyone else in the middle is left in bigger sized classrooms and with much less attention than the other two groups. That is the sad, sad state of our public educational system.

I took my daughters out of public school and never looked back. In private school we always had small class size, lots of attention from their teachers and they were able to take the more challenging courses. We never had to argue with someone that they didn't deserve a particular course because a 'gifted' student deserved that seat more than they did. They were also expected to participate in a physical activity or sport. Both worked with coaches and developed a love of running. Sports teams in public schools are typically vehicles for a limited number of athletically inclined students.

The end result is that both of my daughters graduated with GPAs above 4.0, high board scores and are in great academic programs in college. One is pursuing her Phd on full scholarship. And both of these girls were told at age 7 that since they were not 'gifted' and they would automatically not be placed in the more rigorous curriculum. What a joke! And even more, what harm this star system is doing to the largest amount of students in our public schools.

 

[Poohforyou]

My kids went to private school K-12. Didn't plan it that way, but it was only $20 a week more than before and after school care would have cost at the same facility so we tried it and liked it. I don't care for the business practices of private schools, but they provide a great education.
I will tell you, that in my experience, accreditation doesn't have as much value as you think. There are dozens of accreditation bodies our there, so being "accredited" can be little more than a word on a piece of paper. I will add, my daughter's best teacher, 45 years experience as a First grade teacher, made it clear she was just too busy teachingr to ever get a credential from an organization that really didn't know a whole lot about teaching. I will note, that after first grade, her students were all doing 3rd, 4th and 5th grade level english, science and math work, so she knew what she was talking about.

When both my kids hit college, I got my answer about whether it was worth it. They were both astonished at how poorly prepared for college their classmates from public schools were. Didn't have a clue how to write a paper, had no clue about grammer, spelling, or math.

Maybe being accredited is different in CA than here on the east coast. It is a tough process here and definitely more than a piece of paper. I'm referring to the school having accreditation not a teacher having state certification. Private schools don't require teachers to be certified.

The school you're describing sounds like a parochial one not a prep school. Here a prep school is easily 25k vs. 10k for parochial.

There are plenty of public schools that outrank their local private ones and vice versa.

OP, we were faced with some of the same dilemmas as you several years ago & chose to move to a top ranking district rather than do private school. Is this an option?

 

[Mickey'snewestfan]

Having worked at 3 schools that have gone through accreditation, I can say there are a couple different options. The "gold standard" is regional accreditation. This is a rigorous process that essentially compares what a school does with what they claim to do. If a school is regionally accredited you can feel confident that they live up to their own mission, but those missions may vary. So this Catholic Military school is accredited by the same body as the crunchy granola charter school he used to attend even though the schools are very different.

There are also a handful of national accrediting bodies like NAEYC for preschool or AMI for montessori that look for adherence to a specific educational methods.

Finally there are accrediting bodies that are the equivalent of online diploma mills.

This school is regionally accredited. It is a "Diocesean" school rather than parochial or independent.

 

[Mickey'snewestfan]

Ironically, the public school is definitely "top" by any measure, test scores AP/IB rates, SAT. It consistently ranks in the top 100 of the USNWRA rankings, and living in district drives your house value way up.

In contrast the private is not top ranked. It is a solid, well respected, school but we've got a bunch of "elite" private schools here that outrank it in any listing. Even if I just listed Catholic High Schools that aren't all girls, there would be at least 3 with higher test scores and more selective admissions.

I am sure that if most of my neighbors knew I was considering this they'd be aghast and think it was a step down.

 

[Gumbo4x4]

CBC for starters? My nephew went to CBC and could not pass pre-Calc in college.

My brothers went to a college prep HS and did great, of course this was back in the 90's.

No, but that's interesting because CBC certainly has a good rep.

 

[Gumbo4x4]

We choose/chose Catholic school because of the religion aspect, and personally I like that our kids can say "God Bless America", may seem silly but it is important to me. I found the discipline to be better, and the exposure to certain things were more delayed than in the public school. Note I said delayed, because I am under no delusion that my sons will be exposed to things later, I certainly was, just later.

That can be a double-edged sword too. Friend of mine had a truely brilliant daughter who went to the local Catholic school. All her friends were smart, good kids, as were most of the kids in her school actually. She struggled for the first couple years of college getting used to "regular folk". I remember her dad stressing to her that someday she planned to be a great surgeon and that she might not be all that great at it if the guy who disinfected the operating room didn't respect her. Being a bright kid, she got with the program eventually, but it seemed strange to see someone so gifted who could actually believe she didn't need to associate with people who weren't "up to her level". When her brother reached HS age, his dad moved him to the public school

On another note, despite being half the size of our public school, the Catholic school ALWAYS had 2-3 times as many pregnant students as we had across town

 

[tvguy]

The school you're describing sounds like a parochial one not a prep school. Here a prep school is easily 25k vs. 10k for parochial.

K-8 Prep school. 9-12 Catholic High School. Not sure what tuiton is now, DD graduated 3 years ago, was $11,000 then, Prep school was about the same. The High end prep school here was $25k, but had to cut tuition to $21k due to economy. But they only have 100 kids K-12.

 

[Scrappy_Tink]

We could probably make it work, but it would be tight. They have several scholarships that we might qualify that would make it easier. I'd probably expect him to contribute, e.g. telling him he'd need to get a summer job and earn his own pocket money, rather than continuing to go to camps.

Raising two sons on my own, I know what a struggle it is for a single mom financially. I let my boys know how much I love them, but I cannot let myself go into debt for something that isn't necessary. I'm with the previous poster that mentioned saving the money for college, as it looks like the public school has everything he needs....and if he can excel in sports there, vs the private school, where more sport-skilled kids may go, the competition would be much heavier for those coveted sport scholarships.



His reasonings: He's a kid who likes formality and order, and tradition, and ceremony, and is also fascinated by religion. It's a Catholic school with a military option, and so both of those appeal to him which baffles me since Catholic military school is the last thing in the world I'd have chosen for myself. It's also a big sports school, with much stronger athletics than our and all the things that go with that like pep rallies, and marching bands, and wearing your school colors. Our local public school lacks those things.

JROTC!! There is no military obligation! They can't not accept your son because he won't medically qualify for the military!

Shared reasonings: Our local public school is predominantly very affluent white/Asian with a smaller population of lower income African American and Hispanic kids. There's a huge achievement gap. He's an African American honor student with a single white mom, and I think he sometimes feels trapped between the two groups. (That is life, if he feels that way now, there will be no escaping it)

This school has a large middle class and affluent African American population. I think he'd find it easier to be himself there. In addition, they've got far more male teachers, and male teachers of color. I think he'd find more role models there.

If you're son has a white mom, then he's not "African American" (and here's a shocker, neither is our president!), he is half white, and half African American. I find it a little strange that the public school is predominately very affluent white/asian...if they are so "affluent", then why aren't they in the private school, and how does the private school have a large middle class attendance? The stats seem kind of off to me.

My reasonings: Smaller class sizes means he might get more attention? Also our local school has a reputation for being a pressure cooker, this school seems a little more nurturing and the kids seem to have a more balanced experience.

If the school has a reputation of being a "pressure cooker", probably means they have high standards for education.


The school is accredited with a very long history. It's not one of the "top" schools in our area, but it's got a good reputation and people are happy there.

Is your son unhappy where he is now?

Both schools have impressive college acceptances, with kids regularly going on to Ivy League schools, and other top schools.

Here are some deciding factors if it were me #1....am I going to be in debt up to my eyeballs for eight years, vs 4 (if no scholarships) I don't know how old you are, but you need to consider your retirement too. I don't mean for it to be all "me, me, me", but your son would have a long time ahead of him to pay off student loans, where on the flip-side, you'd possibly over-extending yourself into a very late retirement. And I'm not saying this is YOUR son, but I've seen so many parents going into debt to put their children through college, only to have their kids end up in some dead-end job with no chance of advancement. Do you want to go into debt for a child that may end up working at Subway? I'm sure you're an unselfish mom (obviously because you're concerned about his wishes), I'd look at the long-term picture for yourself too.

Factor #2 You mentioned that kids that are more athletically skilled attend the private school. If your son has a better chance of "shining" athletically at the public school, then he'd have a better chance getting a sports scholarship there.

Factor #3 (My personal opinion) Race shouldn't make any difference. The world is full of mixed races....shoot, it's almost uncommon now to see someone that is all white, all black, all asian, etc. If you feel your son needs a black mentor, then I'd seek one possibly through Big Brothers, or a church group (of your own religion, if you're concerned about the non-catholic thing).

Factor #4 This I speak from personal experience...don't get the "keeping up with the Jones" syndrome. When I divorced my ex, I moved to a very affluent shoreline community in Connecticut to be near my sister....Madison, to be exact. I called it "lilly-white Madison", because there was NO black people living there at all....it was really rather odd and stephford-wifeish. My little family was definitely one of the "have nots"...while other kids were going to Europe and FL for the summer, mine were going to low-income kids camp. BUT with their money, came high-school students that were traveling to Mexico for Spring break and buying steroids, so they could excel in sports. A close friend of mine, who was very down-to-earth had a brother-in-law who was a cop there. She told me one night when we were on one of our walks (pointing to a "mansion") "See that house? My brother-in-law had to go to their house the other night, and it has NO FURNITURE in it." The house was just for show, they couldn't afford to furnish it!! Don't left the affluence influence you...your son needs to learn to live within your means...and if that means mom can't afford to send him to private school, then if he's as mature as you say he is, he will accept that and will want what's best for the family. I could have easily been glamored into living beyond my means, but I didn't want my boys to get caught in that money-game too.

Anyway, that's my two-cents worth!!

 

[Mickey'snewestfan]

To clarify a few points: one is that my son is adopted, while I am sure that he, like most Americans has ancestors of several races, however both his birth parents and all 4 grandparents identify themselves as African American or black. I am not going to touch the issue of President Obama's racial identity because it will take us off on a tangent.

As far as the demographic issue, I think it odd that you would question my statement about the communitu I live in. Suffice it to say that we live in suburbia and the school is in the city. Both schools reflect the communities they are located in.

Finally, when I say it would be tight I mean challenging to afford the school without debt. I would not take on debt to finance K-12 education.

 

[Scrappy_Tink]

To clarify a few points: one is that my son is adopted, while I am sure that he, like most Americans has ancestors of several races, however both his birth parents and all 4 grandparents identify themselves as African American or black. I am not going to touch the issue of President Obama's racial identity because it will take us off on a tangent.

As far as the demographic issue, I think it odd that you would question my statement about the communitu I live in. Suffice it to say that we live in suburbia and the school is in the city. Both schools reflect the communities they are located in.

Finally, when I say it would be tight I mean challenging to afford the school without debt. I would not take on debt to finance K-12 education.

I apologize if I offended you, when you said your son had a white mother, I thought you meant it literally (biologically) as to the president, fact is fact, his mother is white, so he is bi-racial, not "our first black president".

I wasn't questioning the demographics, but the statistics of why the affluent white/Asian children's parents chose public school over private? Is there a reason theSe "affluent" people prefer the public school? And how the large population of middle-income parents can afford private school?

When you asked "private school"? I thought you were asking opinions, and I shared what I went through as a single mom, and even commented how I knew you were obviously a selfless mother.

I can't help it if you took offense, but it was well-meaning advise, not mean-spirited. Especially when I mentioned the Big Brother program. My oldest son had a big brother and loved it...they screen and match the children very well. I was concerned about my son not having a male mentor, and it really filled that need.

 

[badblackpug]

To clarify a few points: one is that my son is adopted, while I am sure that he, like most Americans has ancestors of several races, however both his birth parents and all 4 grandparents identify themselves as African American or black. I am not going to touch the issue of President Obama's racial identity because it will take us off on a tangent.

As far as the demographic issue, I think it odd that you would question my statement about the communitu I live in. Suffice it to say that we live in suburbia and the school is in the city. Both schools reflect the communities they are located in.

Finally, when I say it would be tight I mean challenging to afford the school without debt. I would not take on debt to finance K-12 education.

I really didn't want to weigh in here, but I will. My kids are adopted, all black, and we are white. I understand the issue.

What I want to say, before I digress, is, OP, please go back and read your posts. I think that you have made a decision.

...but anyway...

It is actually the middle years that the kids have found it most difficult to fit in. With my 11 year old, it was never a problem, but he is very outgoing and very laid back. He really doesn't have a "group" he hangs out with and gets along with almost everyone in his class. He is also not a terribly sensitive kid so teasing really doesn't bother him much.

Now my daughter, she is shy. She is also sensitive. It has taken her longer to find her niche. In the younger years kids really didn't notice the color difference so much. It wasn't until about the 5th grade that things became more difficult. My kids go to a predominately caucasian school. She occasionally had to hear that she doesn't "act black" (please do NOT get me started on THAT) Pair that with the fact that she is fairly dark skinned and it made things more difficult for her. She is quiet, and was more the type to internalize things.

Things are better now. She is still quiet (she's my only quiet child, I have 4) but she is more self confident and more self aware. I think this is something that comes with age.

Remember, middle school sucks. It sucks for everyone. All the kids are trying to find their niche and develop their independence. Unfortunately, they often do it at the expense of others. (trust me girls are worse) By the time they get to high school (at least in my experience) they have things more sorted out. The high school kids pretty much have fallen into their groups, which usually aren't racially divided at that point. The kids are more mature, they are more aware that those differences are only skin deep. They fall into groups based more on their interests (arty kids, smart kids, jocks, slackers, you know, it never changes LOL)

Sit down with your son and list all the pros and cons. Explain to him what lifestyle changes will have to occur to afford this school. Also remember, and let him know, that the cost of this tuition will likely dig into what you can afford for college. So, maybe, instead of going away to school he may have to stay home, or go to a community college for the 1st 2 years (not that that is a bad thing, but it may not be what he wants)

At the last, is your son involved in any community programs or programs outside school where he can meet a more diverse group of friends? (or maybe just different people if he is sick of the ones he sees every day) Maybe instead of sinking money into tuition it would better to spend a lot less on some other programs where he can meet othe kids.

Just thought.

 

[DopeyDame]

I'm going to jump back a few posts to comment on the "rankings" and the perception of the school.
Every year, one of the magazine's in the city puts out the "best" high school ranking, listing both private and public schools.
On that same day every year, I get an email from my school reminding all alumni that our school does not participate in these ranking surveys in anyway, and is philosophically opposed to them. Finding the right school (preschool through grad school) is about finding the right fit for each individual kid. Anecdotes from other people about other schools around the country, average SAT scores, alumni donations, etc., etc. all don't mean squat if it's not the right school for your kid.

Frankly, from what you've written about your son and about the schools, the Catholic school seems like a FANTASTIC fit for your son. My son is also adopted - he's Asian and we're white. I realize that some issues are different, and others are magnfied, when dealing with an African American son rather than an Asian son, but I certainly have given a lot of thought to the realities of raising a son different from my own race. The fact that there's a school that he's excited about, that offers a lot of things that would be a good fit for him, that also would allow him to be in a community where his race doesn't stand out... I would JUMP at that chance for my DS.

 

[1Jackpot]

All 4 of my children are in private schools and it's the best decision that we've ever made. Not only are they ahead academically, but the morals that are being taught can't compare to what is in the public schools.

Good luck in your decision!

 

[clutter]

I wasn't questioning the demographics, but the statistics of why the affluent white/Asian children's parents chose public school over private? Is there a reason theSe "affluent" people prefer the public school? And how the large population of middle-income parents can afford private school?

I live in a similar area to OPs, it sounds like. In our county, the top schools are predominately white and Asian. There is no school choice. So if you live in one of these zones (and housing prices are reflective of the school's 'rank' and demographics), you would probably not pay for private school unless you were in the super affluent category (schools start @ $30k+/year/kid). There really are no accredited schools under that price in that part of the suburbs. So if you can afford the housing, but cannot afford the tuition, you move to these districts.

If you are Catholic, the high schools are closer to the city and run $15k for non-members (maybe $8k for members of the parish). The one in the more affluent area has the better reputation among the affluent. However, the one closer to the city, with more mixed demographics, is one of the better schools in its area, but not necessarily in this region.