Privacy Laws Have Gone Too Far

[MIGrandma]

A collection letter was sent to my Mother, well actually to my Father but he's been dead for over 3 years. It says he owes $62.28, but doesn't say what for. Mom gets too nervous to make phone calls, so I'm the elected person to do that. Called this morning to find out what it is for, she asked to speak to my Dad. Sorry, he's been dead 3 years. Wants to speak to Mom. Sorry, she doesn't handle calls for anything business related. Won't talk to me, the daughter. I have power of attorney but they need to me to send proof to them. Arg! So frustrating!

And on a related note, Dad had a savings account in his name. My name was on it for power of attorney and I could deal with the savings account while he was alive. After he passed away my POA became nul and void. Can't do a thing with the account, it has to go through probate. Shouldn't my Mom, his wife, be able to put the $$ into her account at the same bank? They have a will, everything goes to me. Why does that $$ have to go through probate? Arg!!

And on a non-related note, the doctor's office won't leave any kind of message on our answering machine, even though I've told them over and over that it's just DH and myself so PLEASE just leave a message. Nope, someone else might listen to it and hear that my pap smear was normal. Gah!

I'm just so tired of the ridiculous "privacy laws" and having everything so much more complicated now than it used to be. I'm about ready to scream.

Am I the only one who thinks the "privacy laws" are kind of ridiculous?

 

[golfgal]

A will does NOT distribute money, a trust does. The account should have been set up as a TOD (transfer on death) account and your mom should have been listed on the account. Since she was not, yes, it has to go through probate. People try to cheep out and not talk to lawyers and financial planners to get these things set up properly before they die, only to have it cost MORE by having to go through probate.

I would tell the collection company that you will send proof of POA as soon as they send proof that the charges are actually owed. Or, get your mom on the phone, have her say " you can talk to my DD" and hand the phone back to you. That is all they LEGALLY need.

 

[MickeySP]

A collection letter was sent to my Mother, well actually to my Father but he's been dead for over 3 years. It says he owes $62.28, but doesn't say what for. Mom gets too nervous to make phone calls, so I'm the elected person to do that. Called this morning to find out what it is for, she asked to speak to my Dad. Sorry, he's been dead 3 years. Wants to speak to Mom. Sorry, she doesn't handle calls for anything business related. Won't talk to me, the daughter. I have power of attorney but they need to me to send proof to them. Arg! So frustrating!

And on a related note, Dad had a savings account in his name. My name was on it for power of attorney and I could deal with the savings account while he was alive. After he passed away my POA became nul and void. Can't do a thing with the account, it has to go through probate. Shouldn't my Mom, his wife, be able to put the $$ into her account at the same bank? They have a will, everything goes to me. Why does that $$ have to go through probate? Arg!!

And on a non-related note, the doctor's office won't leave any kind of message on our answering machine, even though I've told them over and over that it's just DH and myself so PLEASE just leave a message. Nope, someone else might listen to it and hear that my pap smear was normal. Gah!

I'm just so tired of the ridiculous "privacy laws" and having everything so much more complicated now than it used to be. I'm about ready to scream.

Am I the only one who thinks the "privacy laws" are kind of ridiculous?

I go through this all the time - it is easy. Simply have your Mom say yes on the phone when they ask if they can speak baout the account to you. It has worked all the time with us.

No the bank account unless it was joint, he was sole owner has to go through probate. This is a reason I have my DS on my accounts, but stipulation he needs to 2signatures unless a dedath cert is produced for me. You can also make acounts trust with you as signer and revert to(whoever ) upon your death. You may want to set this up now with your Mom's accounts.

As far as HIPA laws, well some will abide if you sign a waiver but most waon't since we live in a litigious society.

 

[NaLisa]

A collection letter was sent to my Mother, well actually to my Father but he's been dead for over 3 years. It says he owes $62.28, but doesn't say what for. Mom gets too nervous to make phone calls, so I'm the elected person to do that. Called this morning to find out what it is for, she asked to speak to my Dad. Sorry, he's been dead 3 years. Wants to speak to Mom. Sorry, she doesn't handle calls for anything business related. Won't talk to me, the daughter. I have power of attorney but they need to me to send proof to them. Arg! So frustrating!

And on a related note, Dad had a savings account in his name. My name was on it for power of attorney and I could deal with the savings account while he was alive. After he passed away my POA became nul and void. Can't do a thing with the account, it has to go through probate. Shouldn't my Mom, his wife, be able to put the $$ into her account at the same bank? They have a will, everything goes to me. Why does that $$ have to go through probate? Arg!!

And on a non-related note, the doctor's office won't leave any kind of message on our answering machine, even though I've told them over and over that it's just DH and myself so PLEASE just leave a message. Nope, someone else might listen to it and hear that my pap smear was normal. Gah!

I'm just so tired of the ridiculous "privacy laws" and having everything so much more complicated now than it used to be. I'm about ready to scream.

Am I the only one who thinks the "privacy laws" are kind of ridiculous?

I think privacy laws exist for good reason. There are some pretty unscrupulous people out there, including but not limited to grown children taking advantage of elderly parents. The inconveniences seem relatively minor, and to me it would be a comfort knowing banks and creditors are doing their due diligence to protect the rights and privacy of your mother, especially since she's not comfortable dealing with that sort of thing.

 

[Praying Colonel]

A collection letter was sent to my Mother, well actually to my Father but he's been dead for over 3 years. It says he owes $62.28, but doesn't say what for. Mom gets too nervous to make phone calls, so I'm the elected person to do that. Called this morning to find out what it is for, she asked to speak to my Dad. Sorry, he's been dead 3 years. Wants to speak to Mom. Sorry, she doesn't handle calls for anything business related. Won't talk to me, the daughter. I have power of attorney but they need to me to send proof to them. Arg! So frustrating!

And on a related note, Dad had a savings account in his name. My name was on it for power of attorney and I could deal with the savings account while he was alive. After he passed away my POA became nul and void. Can't do a thing with the account, it has to go through probate. Shouldn't my Mom, his wife, be able to put the $$ into her account at the same bank? They have a will, everything goes to me. Why does that $$ have to go through probate? Arg!!

And on a non-related note, the doctor's office won't leave any kind of message on our answering machine, even though I've told them over and over that it's just DH and myself so PLEASE just leave a message. Nope, someone else might listen to it and hear that my pap smear was normal. Gah!

I'm just so tired of the ridiculous "privacy laws" and having everything so much more complicated now than it used to be. I'm about ready to scream.

Am I the only one who thinks the "privacy laws" are kind of ridiculous?

First, IMHO talking to collectors over the phone is often more counterproductive than not. Better to write a letter explaining your father has died and enclose a copy of the death certificate.

Second, the bank account issue isn't a privacy-law issue, but a long-standing principle of probate law in most states. Generally, if Dad had Mom on his account as a joint owner, then yes, Mom would've been able to transfer the money out of that account. But if the bank account was in Dad's name alone, it's a probate asset which can only be dealt with through the probate process.

The good news is that most states have procedures in place to probate a small estate which is usually quicker and easier. Consult an attorney in your state who does probate work (or if you live close to a law school, they may have a legal clinic) to see what the small estate procedures are where you live.

 

[DVCLiz]

I do think it's more inconvenient than it used to be, but I'm willing to trade it for the relative security of the new privacy laws. I'd much rather have to deal with a couple of extra phone calls than to have any of the situations covered by them happen to me.

Nothing like settling an estate to make you pull your hair out, though. It does make you set your own affairs up so the next generation will have it easier!!

 

[LuvOrlando]

Can you do a 3 way call or be with your Mom in the same room and do it on speaker? The reason I ask is because you can't just say it's ok, but if she is there and can give verbal permission for you to handle this for her it should be fine. All you have to do is be there on the phone, she can introduce herself but say, "I would like to give permission for ___________ to handle this for me", they may ask questions to verify her identity but then that's it, it's all you.

Good luck

 

[Allison]

No, I don't think they are ridiculous. They are necessary.

 

[MIGrandma]

No the bank account unless it was joint, he was sole owner has to go through probate. This is a reason I have my DS on my accounts, but stipulation he needs to 2signatures unless a dedath cert is produced for me. You can also make acounts trust with you as signer and revert to(whoever ) upon your death. You may want to set this up now with your Mom's accounts.

We changed Mom's savings account, after we went through all this with Dad's. Had the bank TOLD us that my POA would automatically become nul and void after he died, we wouldn't have set it up that way. But they didn't. AFTER he died, then they told us if my name had been added as an OWNER then I could easily have transferred the money into Mom's account. So it really bothers me that they neglected to tell us that in the beginning.

But we did change my Mom's account to have her name, mine and our daughter's as well so that if anything happens to her that money won't have to go through probate.

I have a savings account in my name, and DH has one as well, and only our names (individually) were on them so we changed those too to add our DD so she can get to the money when something happens to us as well.

We are definitely going to have to set up a trust though, as our estate is much larger than my Mom's as we own farmland, our home, and property up north whereas Mom just has her savings, household goods (she rents) and her car. We set up our will when our DS was born to have it worded that our estate should go to DS "and any future children we may have." But I'm sure it needs to be changed and I'd really like to get that done soon.

 

[MIGrandma]

Can you do a 3 way call or be with your Mom in the same room and do it on speaker? The reason I ask is because you can't just say it's ok, but if she is there and can give verbal permission for you to handle this for her it should be fine. All you have to do is be there on the phone, she can introduce herself but say, "I would like to give permission for ___________ to handle this for me", they may ask questions to verify her identity but then that's it, it's all you.

Good luck

Yes, I'll make the call tomorrow from her house (I called this morning from mine, as she just handed the paper to me yesterday when she was here for Mother's Day) so I can hand her the phone so she can give permission for them to speak to me. It seems kind of funny though, because I could have anyone say "yes, she's my daughter", it wouldn't even have to really be her, so I guess I don't see the point in that. I wouldn't do it, but I bet other people do in this type of situation.

 

[golfgal]

I do think it's more inconvenient than it used to be, but I'm willing to trade it for the relative security of the new privacy laws. I'd much rather have to deal with a couple of extra phone calls than to have any of the situations covered by them happen to me.

Nothing like settling an estate to make you pull your hair out, though. It does make you set your own affairs up so the next generation will have it easier!!

No kidding. My step-mom's brother died fairly unexpectantly and my poor mom is just going through the ringer trying to get everything settled. He was ill in the hospital for 3 weeks and she was working on guardianship papers when he passed away and pretty much has to start over with everything as executor of his will-but can't really do anything until the death certificates come in the mail. She said as soon as she gets home she is starting a binder with EVERYTHING in it so when I have to do this for them, everything is in one place and organized. She can't find the title to his car and wants to give his car to his DD but can't until they can do the transfer and all the other "crap" that goes with settling an estate.

 

[msmayor]

Yes, I'll make the call tomorrow from her house (I called this morning from mine, as she just handed the paper to me yesterday when she was here for Mother's Day) so I can hand her the phone so she can give permission for them to speak to me. It seems kind of funny though, because I could have anyone say "yes, she's my daughter", it wouldn't even have to really be her, so I guess I don't see the point in that. I wouldn't do it, but I bet other people do in this type of situation.

Except they may ask her some questions she must answer to correctly identify herself as HER, and not just anyone can answer.

I work a customer service counter at a department store and customers often bring their charge bills to us with problems. They ask us to call our credit arm for them, and we are always required to pass the phone to them to answer name, address, SS# and phone # questions before any information will be given to me to help resolve their problem.

 

[FredinFL]

What golfgal said. My dh is always telling them "yeah, talk to her" and handing the phone over. That's all they need.

 

[MIGrandma]

Except they may ask her some questions she must answer to correctly identify herself as HER, and not just anyone can answer.

I work a customer service counter at a department store and customers often bring their charge bills to us with problems. They ask us to call our credit arm for them, and we are always required to pass the phone to them to answer name, address, SS# and phone # questions before any information will be given to me to help resolve their problem.

But I, as her daughter, would know all the answers to those questions. Her SS#, her address, her phone #, her maiden name, her mother's maiden name, the name of her first pet, the street she grew up on, etc. etc.

 

[scrapquitler]

But I, as her daughter, would know all the answers to those questions. Her SS#, her address, her phone #, her maiden name, her mother's maiden name, the name of her first pet, the street she grew up on, etc. etc.

My husband tried to get Chase to talk to me about his credit card account, and they wouldn't do verbal permission over the phone: they sent a form to him and he had to sign it and mail it back before I could call about his account

For the debt issue the OP mentioned: you probably should notify the creditor in writing that you only want them to speak to you about it via mail.

And as far as the bank account goes, why does it have to go thru probate? I was executor of my parents wills. When Dad died, there was no probate and everything just moved over to Moms accounts.

 

[golfgal]

My husband tried to get Chase to talk to me about his credit card account, and they wouldn't do verbal permission over the phone: they sent a form to him and he had to sign it and mail it back before I could call about his account

For the debt issue the OP mentioned: you probably should notify the creditor in writing that you only want them to speak to you about it via mail.

And as far as the bank account goes, why does it have to go thru probate? I was executor of my parents wills. When Dad died, there was no probate and everything just moved over to Moms accounts.

Probably because they had their finances set up properly. Having someone with POA is fine while you are living but the OP's name should have been put on the account, not just that she has POA because POA's automatically terminate upon death. If the account isn't set up to transfer upon death, and assets are over a certain amount ($50,000 in our state), it goes through probate. My aunt had to go through probate to the tune of $10,000 to get the house she lived in for over 40 years into her name because they just never got around to it before my uncle died. It would have cost less than $50 to do it before he died.

 

[focusondisney]

I understand in this day of identity theft, this is all necessary. But I still find them annoying sometimes.

When we got married over 30 years ago, all utilities were traditionally set up in the husband's name. So of course, I put everything in my DH's name. But I could still call & talk about problems or change services. Not anymore. Now I have to find time when DH & I are both home during business hours (not easy, he works 55 plus hour weeks). I either sit next to him telling him what to do or have him tell them to talk to me. Didn't imagine over 30 years ago how things would change.

Luckily the bank accounts & house are in both names. We are very lax in the will & trust aspects of things. Really should get those in order.

 

[MickeySP]

We changed Mom's savings account, after we went through all this with Dad's. Had the bank TOLD us that my POA would automatically become nul and void after he died, we wouldn't have set it up that way. But they didn't. AFTER he died, then they told us if my name had been added as an OWNER then I could easily have transferred the money into Mom's account. So it really bothers me that they neglected to tell us that in the beginning.

But we did change my Mom's account to have her name, mine and our daughter's as well so that if anything happens to her that money won't have to go through probate.

I have a savings account in my name, and DH has one as well, and only our names (individually) were on them so we changed those too to add our DD so she can get to the money when something happens to us as well.

We are definitely going to have to set up a trust though, as our estate is much larger than my Mom's as we own farmland, our home, and property up north whereas Mom just has her savings, household goods (she rents) and her car. We set up our will when our DS was born to have it worded that our estate should go to DS "and any future children we may have." But I'm sure it needs to be changed and I'd really like to get that done soon.

Sounds like a great plan

I grew up in a lawyer's household so this was always drilled into me. Trusts are great because the save time & money, the assets just pass.

I recently added my DS to my Mom's home so it can avoid any probate & taxes.

Unfortunately I see so much abuse(financially) of the elderly I know why these laws are in place. Your Mom is lucky to have you.

 

[shortbun]

My parents worked very hard to make sure all the financials would go smoothly upon their deaths and they did. They went to several meeting with financial planners who advised them and set up trusts, gave them instructions on what to keep where and what to do when death was imminent. It all worked. We-their heirs-were instructed regarding what to do and when. My sister, the executor, was very busy moving money, transferring titles and just taking care of business just prior to each of their deaths. These days you have to be hyper organized and it is possible to avoid most probate.

 

[tlbwriter]

We set up our will when our DS was born to have it worded that our estate should go to DS "and any future children we may have." But I'm sure it needs to be changed and I'd really like to get that done soon.

This may vary by state, but when DH's grandmother wrote her will, it said her assets should be distributed to "my children." Since the children were not listed by name, they were not able to settle for a period of time (2 years, I think) to allow for any unknown children to make a claim.

But I, as her daughter, would know all the answers to those questions. Her SS#, her address, her phone #, her maiden name, her mother's maiden name, the name of her first pet, the street she grew up on, etc. etc.

Well, I wouldn't know my mom's SS# if you held a gun to my head. But honestly I'd be tempted to call and pretend you were her!