Price increase question

[Beca]

I posted this on another thread, but I think it has "gotten buried", so I am posting here as well.

I just heard from a friend (not from my guide) that the price increase will be:

SSR $101
VWL, BCV, BWV, $95
OKW...no price increase...it will stay at $92
HH and VB will be dropping to $87

This is interesting because it is the first time I have heard of "sold out" resorts selling at different prices.

Has anyone else heard this? Can anyone confirm this?



Beca

 

[TammyAlphabet]

Other than the part about OKW staying the same at 92, this sounds like what everyone has been posting as information they have gathered.

 

[RobDoc]

The SSR increase was announced a few weeks ago and members were sent an annoucement regarding the $5 discount (to $87) at HH and VB. I don't recall seeing anything yet about the increase for BWV, BCV and VWL - but don't find it surprising at all.

Resale is still looking like the best bargain around !

 

[Beca]

Yes, it is the "splitting" of prices between the "sold out" on site properties that has me....well, a little shocked!!!

Has DVC ever had different price structures for "sold out" WDW resorts before? Since I have been a member, they have all been the same.



Beca

 

[Blue&Gold]

Looks to me like they have to set up an incremental price structure to support ROFR. Lord knows the calculus involved...

 

[KANSAS]

Beca
I am fairly certain that
VAWL
BEACH CLUB
BOardwalk

are going up to $95 per point
for all
DVC MEMBERS
and
NON DVC MEMBERS

I think the confusion, that DVC MEMBERS will still be able to purchase these (3) resorts for $92 per point, after April 1,2006

is coming from SSRS
price increase on april 1,2006 for non dvc members
but no price incrase on april 1,2006
for DVC Members

 

[Daitcher]

I posted this on another thread, but I think it has "gotten buried", so I am posting here as well.

I just heard from a friend (not from my guide) that the price increase will be:

SSR $101
VWL, BCV, BWV, $95
OKW...no price increase...it will stay at $92
HH and VB will be dropping to $87

This is interesting because it is the first time I have heard of "sold out" resorts selling at different prices.

Has anyone else heard this? Can anyone confirm this?



Beca

Hey Beca,

I think the seperate price structure is long overdue. Pricing is ususally based on demand and DVC has ignored this for far to long. How can a BCV resale be priced the same as an OKW? BCV ressies are much tougher to get.

Finally I see some evidence that DVC sees a problem lurking on the horizon. This leads me to believe that they see the error of there ways. The size of SSR combined with many peple buying there solely for the extra 12 years and to just get into the system is going to lead to booking problems at the smaller DVC Resorts. This pricing seems to reflect that IMO. The smaller resorts are commanding the highest price on the resale market.

Am I reading into this too much or does DVC see this problem in the making?


DAVE

 

[Beca]

Hey Beca,

I think the seperate price structure is long overdue. Pricing is ususally based on demand and DVC has ignored this for far to long. How can a BCV resale be priced the same as an OKW? BCV ressies are much tougher to get.

Finally I see some evidence that DVC sees a problem lurking on the horizon. This leads me to believe that they see the error of there ways. The size of SSR combined with many peple buying there solely for the extra 12 years and to just get into the system is going to lead to booking problems at the smaller DVC Resorts. This pricing seems to reflect that IMO. The smaller resorts are commanding the highest price on the resale market.

Am I reading into this too much or does DVC see this problem in the making?


DAVE

Dave,

This is what I am wondering as well. One of the perks of DVC's "system" is that "points are points", and reflecting that...except for the "current" resort they are selling. Their philosophy has always been, "points are points".

I'm just not sure what ramifications pricing the on-site "sold out" resorts differently will have (if any) on the way DVC sells and markets the resorts.

For example, how will DVC answer the question, "Why is OKW valued less by DVC than VWL, BCV or BWV?" And, how do owners of OKW feel about that?

And, why is it that DVC would price OKW lower? Is it because it is older, does not have the "demand" for the resort, is not attached to a park, is big...what? And, with OKW being so similar in design to SSR....well, I am not going to draw any conclusions here....but, I think this is worrisome.

I don't know why yet...but, this has me freaked a bit!!! It is almost an "admission" that the system is not/is not playing out like DVC said it would. It makes me a bit "unsettled".

I just wanted to know what others thought about this as well.



Beca

 

[greenban]

Dave,

This is what I am wondering as well. One of the perks of DVC's "system" is that "points are points", and reflecting that...except for the "current" resort they are selling. Their philosophy has always been, "points are points".

I'm just not sure what ramifications pricing the on-site "sold out" resorts differently will have (if any) on the way DVC sells and markets the resorts.

For example, how will DVC answer the question, "Why is OKW valued less by DVC than VWL, BCV or BWV?" And, how do owners of OKW feel about that?

And, why is it that DVC would price OKW lower? Is it because it is older, does not have the "demand" for the resort, is not attached to a park, is big...what? And, with OKW being so similar in design to SSR....well, I am not going to draw any conclusions here....but, I think this is worrisome.

I don't know why yet...but, this has me freaked a bit!!! It is almost an "admission" that the system is not/is not playing out like DVC said it would. It makes me a bit "unsettled".

I just wanted to know what others thought about this as well.



Beca

Beca:

Don't repeat this info that I'm PMing to you. I got it from a high placed official at WDW:

The long awaited DVC-II is about to be announced with DVC-II being built at both the CRV & PRV. Announcement is about 6 months away, and resort building is starting in about 3 months, with about 2.5 years before occupancy.

The DVC-II Price has not been set yet, but is guestimated at $105-120pp.

Only PRV, CRV, BCV, BWV and VWL will be part of the DVC-II, which will share SSR's 2054 expiration. (Only PRV & CRV will have 2054 expirations)

DVC-I will consisit of OKW, SSR, VB & HHI, with plans to possibly sell of both HHI & VB, in the next two years.

What I could not believe , is that my friend told me SSR's exclusion from DVC-II (Despite sharing the same expry) is based on Disney's Financial Demographics of SSR owners! It is felt that they won't spring for the $105-120pp (Based on ROFR????) and that is why those owners were excluded

Points per room are expected to be 10-20% more than BCV rates for PRV & CRV, but interchangable with all other DVC-II properties.

I think this neatly explains the price changes we have seen, and those that are yet rumored. (Such as the OKW 'surplus' points mailing, DVC is dumping those 'lower value' points)

What do you think?

-Tony




P.S. Yes of course this entire Reply is a piece of fiction, I have no actual idea what is happening.

 

[boatboatboat]

HH is the deal.

87 bucks, low dues............stay at WDW via SSR.

I have no clue why DVC is selling it on the cheap.

Vero I can understand due to the high taxes/dues per point.....

 

[Beca]

Tony...thanks for the "top secret" info.

B3...you're right....the price difference does not make sense!! If ALL the 2042 were dropping instead of increasing (or, even just staying the same), I would say "The extra 12 years is starting to make a difference" (which, it most certainly will at some point). But, why lower one and not the others. If all resorts are "equal" in the system, how fair is it to suddenly valuate one lower than the others? Of course, DVC has always done this with the "current" resort....but, why with the sold out ones. (Of course, I guess one could argue that with the SSR incentives, the sold out resorts are already more $$$$ than the "current" resort...I wonder if that has always been the case with DVC?).

But, doesn't DVC have a responsibility to think about these "ramifications", rather than just dropping the price on one resort because they have a lot of it in stock? Isn't that part of the give/take with the whole ROFR thing (that has made DVC a LOT of money). I am not comfortable with DVC setting different prices for the resorts just based on "demand". If that is all they are doing, I think it is very irresponsible of them. And, if it is all based on "demand", will BCV go higher than the others because the waitlists are so long? If DVC doesn't like holding the properties in their account, maybe they shouldn't have done ROFR. The current price of resorts would certainly not be so high if ROFR didn't exist.



Beca

 

[shellbelle1971]

I'm not super smart, but it seems that a simple free market at work would explain this pricing structure if it's correct.

DVC has wait lists of people wanting to buy at certain resorts. They're willing to pay more for those resorts, too. So charge them more.

Not so many folks are interested in others and/or they're not willing to pay as much for them. So discount the surplus inventory.

After all, that's why they're in business. Make a great product, sell it for whatever the market will bear...

 

[JimC]

I'm reading my copy of Backstage Pass for DL AP. It says we get a 15% discount on a DVC membership and that membership prices begin at $15,150. That works out to $101 per point. So I guess a price increase has already happened.

 

[TammyAlphabet]

Beca:

Don't repeat this info that I'm PMing to you. I got it from a high placed official at WDW:

The long awaited DVC-II is about to be announced with DVC-II being built at both the CRV & PRV. Announcement is about 6 months away, and resort building is starting in about 3 months, with about 2.5 years before occupancy.

The DVC-II Price has not been set yet, but is guestimated at $105-120pp.

Only PRV, CRV, BCV, BWV and VWL will be part of the DVC-II, which will share SSR's 2054 expiration. (Only PRV & CRV will have 2054 expirations)

DVC-I will consisit of OKW, SSR, VB & HHI, with plans to possibly sell of both HHI & VB, in the next two years.

What I could not believe , is that my friend told me SSR's exclusion from DVC-II (Despite sharing the same expry) is based on Disney's Financial Demographics of SSR owners! It is felt that they won't spring for the $105-120pp (Based on ROFR????) and that is why those owners were excluded

Points per room are expected to be 10-20% more than BCV rates for PRV & CRV, but interchangable with all other DVC-II properties.

I think this neatly explains the price changes we have seen, and those that are yet rumored. (Such as the OKW 'surplus' points mailing, DVC is dumping those 'lower value' points)

What do you think?

-Tony




P.S. Yes of course this entire Reply is a piece of fiction, I have no actual idea what is happening.

You REALLY got me that time!!!!

 

[dvc-NE]

Yes, it is the "splitting" of prices between the "sold out" on site properties that has me....well, a little shocked!!!



Beca

I'm a little "shocked" too, Beca. If Doc says it's happening, I believe it. The reason I'm surprised is that DVC would be leaving their "all resorts are created equal" stance to something different. But honestly, who is going to want to buy VB direct from Disney when they are listed at TTS for as low as $63?

 

[Doctor P]

I think that it is very important to point out that at least with the HH and VB situation, they are NOT selling those resorts at a lower price, but rather are providing an incentive for purchase. They have in the past had different incentives for purchase at different resorts, so this is not something new. It is a subtle, but meaningful distinction.

 

[dvc-NE]

I think that it is very important to point out that at least with the HH and VB situation, they are NOT selling those resorts at a lower price, but rather are providing an incentive for purchase. They have in the past had different incentives for purchase at different resorts, so this is not something new. It is a subtle, but meaningful distinction.

Nicely worded, Doctor P, but if it looks like a duck, walks like a duck, sounds like a duck, it's a duck. They ARE selling HH & VB at a lower price. I bought SSR pre-construction in Nov 2003 for $79 a point, but you could say I bought it at $89 with a $10 incentive. Six of one, or 1/2 dozen of the other.

 

[Doctor P]

I won't get into an argument, but there is a difference legally and for taxation purposes. I agree that there is no difference in terms of the bottom line.

 

[dvc-NE]

I won't get into an argument, but there is a difference legally and for taxation purposes. I agree that there is no difference in terms of the bottom line.

No offense Doctor P, but you sounded a little bit like a guide there for a second. Besides, I would never rag on a Blackhawks fan! I assume Disney would be the ones benefitting in terms of taxation?

 

[Doctor P]

No offense Doctor P, but you sounded a little bit like a guide there for a second. Besides, I would never rag on a Blackhawks fan! I assume Disney would be the ones benefitting in terms of taxation?

No, actually, DVC would not benefit necessarily from setting things up this way. Typically, the price would be listed and then a credit listed against the purchase price. Typically, this means that the full purchase price would be used as the basis for taxes on the transaction as opposed to a situation where they actually reduced the price. It is like the consumer rebate on a car--you pay the taxes on the full amount and the rebate is subtracted at the end to determine the amount due. BTW, just got an email for an incentive on SSR add ons, too.