I don't like the direction that this thread has taken, especially with regard to comparisons of one state being better than another. I will close this thread should this line of discussion continue. Lets keep things a little less personal.
President Bush: "... go down to Disney World in Florida..."
- Thread starter Tannerman
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Shhhh.....that's supposed to be a secret.
No, you're looking at it from an Ei$ner prespective. Short term. This quarter. The fact remains...Universal / Vivendi are posting postive numbers when all of their competition are showing losses. What does Disney have in the offerings which may change the current downward trend? Any blockbuster scripts (Nope...just dopey animation sequels), any new ride developments (The jury's out.....I'll give them time to recover their press event), any changes in broadcast TV (instead of having one channel struggling to sell advertising on, now they have two. Whoopee).
So the mere fact that Vivendi / Universal are posting positive numbers in this type of economy shows they're doing something right, where as the competitiors aren't.
You asked. You asked for proof that showed Universal / Vivendi are doing well where as Disney isn't. I provided it, and now you say it's boring. Oh well.
I do agree. I'm not a big fan of who's doing better than whom financially. But sometimes these reports are needed when someone (not trying to single you out) refuses to see the truth of the matter.
No problem. I'm trying to find info on the crowds for this upcoming week and saw em. Just in the right place at the right time.
I'll be away next week (honeymoon's finally here) so I'll probably be dropping from this thread. Sorry I won't be able to follow up any more.
Here you go DScoop
http://finance.yahoo.com/q?d=c&c=bud&k=c1&t=1y&s=dis&a=v&p=s&l=on&z=m&q=l
http://finance.yahoo.com/q?d=c&c=v&k=c1&t=1y&s=dis&a=v&p=s&l=on&z=m&q=l
Hopefully this works
I know Vivendi is not that much better then Disney but they are BOTH doing better than Disney.
http://finance.yahoo.com/q?d=c&c=bud&k=c1&t=1y&s=dis&a=v&p=s&l=on&z=m&q=l
http://finance.yahoo.com/q?d=c&c=v&k=c1&t=1y&s=dis&a=v&p=s&l=on&z=m&q=l
Hopefully this works
I know Vivendi is not that much better then Disney but they are BOTH doing better than Disney.
Well, Vivendi is clearly not doing a whole lot better then Disney, they are doing a little bit better.
Bud is doing much better, but again they are primarily a beer company, not an entertainment company.
On the other hand, Check this out,
Phillip Morris vs. Bud
http://finance.yahoo.com/q?d=c&c=Bud&k=c1&t=1y&s=mo&a=v&p=s&l=on&z=m&q=l
you learn that in fact Anhueser Busch is doing not so good compared to its chief competitor. So guess what, I would be hard pressed to say that A-B is doing well at all.
Bud is doing much better, but again they are primarily a beer company, not an entertainment company.
On the other hand, Check this out,
Phillip Morris vs. Bud
http://finance.yahoo.com/q?d=c&c=Bud&k=c1&t=1y&s=mo&a=v&p=s&l=on&z=m&q=l
you learn that in fact Anhueser Busch is doing not so good compared to its chief competitor. So guess what, I would be hard pressed to say that A-B is doing well at all.
No one said anything about PM, do they own any theme parks???? AB. IS a competitor with Disney since they are in the theme park industry. Are you saying that theme parks are not a form of entertainment. The fact is they are both doing better which is exactly what I said.
No, Phillip Morris does not have any themeparks or other entertainments (unless you include brewery tours 
)
BUT, my point is that Both Vivendi and A-B only get a small fraction of their revenue from theme parks. in Vivendi's case it is a Telcom Giant and an Environmental serivces company(maybe I should look up Waste Managment Corp?)
It is useless to say that they are doing better then Disney in Entertainment when all you have is the agragate corporate numbers. The FACTS are that MOST of Vivendi is still a Telcom and I would guess it still gets most of its profits from that. Similarly A-B gets probably 90% or more of its profits from selling BEER.
How can you possibly compare raw numbers between these companies and Disney when Disney is a one Trick pony?
find Me the entertainment numbers for Universal and A-B and then we'll talk.
)BUT, my point is that Both Vivendi and A-B only get a small fraction of their revenue from theme parks. in Vivendi's case it is a Telcom Giant and an Environmental serivces company(maybe I should look up Waste Managment Corp?)
It is useless to say that they are doing better then Disney in Entertainment when all you have is the agragate corporate numbers. The FACTS are that MOST of Vivendi is still a Telcom and I would guess it still gets most of its profits from that. Similarly A-B gets probably 90% or more of its profits from selling BEER.
How can you possibly compare raw numbers between these companies and Disney when Disney is a one Trick pony?
find Me the entertainment numbers for Universal and A-B and then we'll talk.
YoHo
Like I've said before , you can't win, so you always nit pick and break things down until you find and angle so far fetched, and then you try to spin that to your favor. The facts were mostly provided by HBK and yet you still argue with them. It doesn't matter that Vivendi and AB. do other things besides the theme parks. (If you had read my post, you would know that I said they had other stuff to fall back on to help them get through the rough economic storm). Those things are all thrown together in a pot and are called 1 company. Disney also does alot of other things, once again the point is, that all of their other combined ventures are looked at as 1 company, not seperate entities. If you think that Disney makes all of it's money form the parks, then your totally in dreamland. Fact is both Vivendi and AB both are doing finacially better than Disney no matter how small, or how YOU look at it. And that is what I said, not pick any company out of the blue to do a comparison with, that has nothing to do with the theme park industry. I'll admit that Vivendi is not doing as well as I thought it was, but AB. is.
Like I've said before , you can't win, so you always nit pick and break things down until you find and angle so far fetched, and then you try to spin that to your favor. The facts were mostly provided by HBK and yet you still argue with them. It doesn't matter that Vivendi and AB. do other things besides the theme parks. (If you had read my post, you would know that I said they had other stuff to fall back on to help them get through the rough economic storm). Those things are all thrown together in a pot and are called 1 company. Disney also does alot of other things, once again the point is, that all of their other combined ventures are looked at as 1 company, not seperate entities. If you think that Disney makes all of it's money form the parks, then your totally in dreamland. Fact is both Vivendi and AB both are doing finacially better than Disney no matter how small, or how YOU look at it. And that is what I said, not pick any company out of the blue to do a comparison with, that has nothing to do with the theme park industry. I'll admit that Vivendi is not doing as well as I thought it was, but AB. is.
I don't think my comments are far fetched at all. I'm not trying to spin anything. I KNOW that Universal had a steller summer movie season and wouldn't be the least surprised if that translates into higher divisional profits then Disney. You are right, What other Ventures Universal and A-B run isn't Relevent to this board. BUT, it is relevent to the discussion at hand. I admit I started it with my comment that it sounded like Universal may need more help druming up buisness in the parks then Disney and that was why Jeb did the comercial.
You then said
You have not illustrated that Disney is Losing their "****". Furthermore, you tried to use only Universal's numbers to explain away Vivendi. I guess I just don't understand your point.
So I'm getting out of this, It all started with this rather charged statement by you
Not in good taste and pretty rude. I really don't have the time an energy to get into this kind of discussion again, plus I promised Sarangel I'd be good and lrodk has already been here once.
You then said
You have not illustrated that Disney is Losing their "****". Furthermore, you tried to use only Universal's numbers to explain away Vivendi. I guess I just don't understand your point.
So I'm getting out of this, It all started with this rather charged statement by you
Not in good taste and pretty rude. I really don't have the time an energy to get into this kind of discussion again, plus I promised Sarangel I'd be good and lrodk has already been here once.
I don't really need to prove anything but here goes, the cruise line bookings are way down and the cancellations are way up, the bookings for the hotels are down, plus they have very low rates because they are desperate for business, the parks attendance are down, Disney stores are closing left and right and eventually will all be closed because of their loss of money and over saturation of product, Disney Quest up in your area closed cause it was loosing money, DCA is a total money loser, their great sports complex at WDW is loosing money and as I said before, when they lose their appeal or settle out of court they'll be loosing millions more. All of this info was obtained from watching the LOCAL news and other business related programs on tv over the last couple of months, not constanly looking on the internet for anything Disney related like you seem to always have the time for.
JeffJewell
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...is that Disney's parks do, in fact, supply probably the most significant chunk of the Company's profits. Although Disney is quite the media octopus, the parks still often have to make up for many of the "sins" of other divisions.
Because the travel industry was hit so hard by 9-11, Disney's balance sheet is ending up, well, quite off-balance without a steady deluge of cash from the parks.
With the attendance and public perception issues plaguing Disney's two most recent stateside parks since well before 9-11, and with a growing minority of even long-time guests being vocal about budget cuts directly affecting their vacations (again, since before 9-11), has Disney put itself in a good position for its parks to resume their position as financial flagships, once the travellers return?
We all know what kinds of spin, damage control, 'Street pandering, obsfucation, and just plain fibbing can be perpetrated by teams of accountants and lawyers: the graphs can pretty much be read to say whatever a talented bs artist wishes them to say at that moment.
I would say, when contemplating the question "in what comparative 'shape' are these two companies," we'd be better served to consider current cash positions and how well those positions will carry the companies through the indeterminant length of dead time (difficult to determine, yes, but I'll go out on a limb and say $5 billion came close to shooting whatever wad was lying around at the beginning of this year [argument might be made that that deal shot _more_ than Disney's wad, because of the $2 billion in assumed debt]), and how soon the businesses are likely to rebound and become profitable again.
With Disney's heavy reliance on the travel industry, the single industry that is most likely to take the longest to rebound, it's hard to imagine them being in "better" shape than the other companies mentioned in this thread (particularly the ones selling smokes and suds. I wouldn't be surprised to hear that those businesses have _increased_ in the wake of 9-11).
Jeff
PS: try as I might, I find no way to relate this back to the actual topic. Sorry about that. I take some solace in the knowledge that the "normals" on the R&N board know what wallows at the tail of a five-page thread around here...
Because the travel industry was hit so hard by 9-11, Disney's balance sheet is ending up, well, quite off-balance without a steady deluge of cash from the parks.
With the attendance and public perception issues plaguing Disney's two most recent stateside parks since well before 9-11, and with a growing minority of even long-time guests being vocal about budget cuts directly affecting their vacations (again, since before 9-11), has Disney put itself in a good position for its parks to resume their position as financial flagships, once the travellers return?
We all know what kinds of spin, damage control, 'Street pandering, obsfucation, and just plain fibbing can be perpetrated by teams of accountants and lawyers: the graphs can pretty much be read to say whatever a talented bs artist wishes them to say at that moment.
I would say, when contemplating the question "in what comparative 'shape' are these two companies," we'd be better served to consider current cash positions and how well those positions will carry the companies through the indeterminant length of dead time (difficult to determine, yes, but I'll go out on a limb and say $5 billion came close to shooting whatever wad was lying around at the beginning of this year [argument might be made that that deal shot _more_ than Disney's wad, because of the $2 billion in assumed debt]), and how soon the businesses are likely to rebound and become profitable again.
With Disney's heavy reliance on the travel industry, the single industry that is most likely to take the longest to rebound, it's hard to imagine them being in "better" shape than the other companies mentioned in this thread (particularly the ones selling smokes and suds. I wouldn't be surprised to hear that those businesses have _increased_ in the wake of 9-11).
Jeff
PS: try as I might, I find no way to relate this back to the actual topic. Sorry about that. I take some solace in the knowledge that the "normals" on the R&N board know what wallows at the tail of a five-page thread around here...
JeffJewell
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...looky there, while I was posting, we started skidding headlong into Locked-Up-Ville.
Shucks, I thought I made a good point, too.
Jeff
Shucks, I thought I made a good point, too.
Jeff
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FC Fan, do us all a big favor and get off these boards. To quote the header, Pete Werner set these boards up for: "a live, free forum, by, about and for Disney Fans." (which you are clearly not.) You seem to have an agenda against the folks here that are Disney Fans.
And by the way, if your business acumen is resigned to "watching the local news" then I find it humorous that you would engage yourself in a financial conversation.
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That should just about assure that you no longer post here. Mission accomplished.
JeffJewell
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...there's not a chance in aitch-ee-double-hockey-sticks anyone's actually gonna pay any attention to my last big post up there at this point, is there?
Crap. I worked hard on that.
Jeff
Crap. I worked hard on that.
Jeff
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Jeff,
I read it and agree. As bad a decision as dropping 5 big bills on Fox Family was, the timing now couldn't be any worse.
I honestly believe that Disney was tightening expenditures not only in order to strengthen short term results, but also to prepare for success when the economy turned. We've seen some evidence of that lately. It's hard to hang your hat on it, but it's ok to be optimistic. I do believe that park investment was on the horizon. (Remember, one of the keys to car number 2 is holding on to that optimisim. )
Now, that's all been kicked to the curb. If ever there was a time that nobody out there had any idea what the fate of our economy is -- it's right now.
I do believe that there is some concern over a less than $40 billion market cap. I'm not convinced that a play won't be made by someone. No matter how "politically incorrect" it may appear.
I apologize for contributing to the most assured locking of this thread. But, in my defense, it seems the damage was done before I hopped in. I appreciate your well-written, well thought out analysis.
I read it and agree. As bad a decision as dropping 5 big bills on Fox Family was, the timing now couldn't be any worse.
I honestly believe that Disney was tightening expenditures not only in order to strengthen short term results, but also to prepare for success when the economy turned. We've seen some evidence of that lately. It's hard to hang your hat on it, but it's ok to be optimistic. I do believe that park investment was on the horizon. (Remember, one of the keys to car number 2 is holding on to that optimisim.
)Now, that's all been kicked to the curb. If ever there was a time that nobody out there had any idea what the fate of our economy is -- it's right now.
I do believe that there is some concern over a less than $40 billion market cap. I'm not convinced that a play won't be made by someone. No matter how "politically incorrect" it may appear.
I apologize for contributing to the most assured locking of this thread. But, in my defense, it seems the damage was done before I hopped in. I appreciate your well-written, well thought out analysis.
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