pre booking FP+ and off site

[f19810]

If disney does not allow off site guests to pre book fp+, would you still go to disney? If I cannot reserve in advance my fp and things don't change with the availability of fp, I will have to decide which is more important, getting to the parks at rd and hope that I can get fp or stay on site and go less often.

 

[Planogirl]

Hey I just noticed that you posted this twice! I'll copy my answer from the other thread here since this has the poll. I said:

Only time will tell in my case. We stay offsite and onsite depending on deals and plans and I don't see much advantage in going to WDW when offsite. Or really that much when staying onsite to be honest.

All of that could change though. We plan on one big visit this December and then I think that it's time to visit other places that I've put off for way too long. I'm rather tired of all of this.

I'll choose 'no' for at least the near future.

 

[deakam]

I'm with Planogirl. I am not at all pleased with the ability to schedule rides months in advance. When we had half of our party at a resort that was testing and the other half at a resort that was not testing it was not easy to reschedule any of the pre scheduled fast passes. That and the party that had scheduled things months in advance had no idea what they were doing so nothing worked out the way they wanted. My guess is that the veteran park goer will be fine but the once in a lifetime vacation goer is going to have a bit of difficulty. Myself----my next trip to Orlando will be spent at Universal. I don't like the idea of wearing a rubber bracelet in 90 degree heat. I really do not like the idea of a regimented vacation but I was also aware of fewer regular fast passes available and they were gone sooner. Why would any one go to the parks if they were not given the same opportunity as everyone else to ride the rides.

The biggest surprise to me was Toy Story Mania. We were at the park at rope drop. By the time we got to the ride the fast pass return time was 5pm. Soarin was almost as bad.

 

[Gina-Gina-Bo-Bina]

We own at SVR, so there's no way you will be getting us to stay onsite at Disney in one of their tiny little rooms.

Disney has already lost its appeal for us to a large extent. We find we have more relaxing, spontaneous, FUN experiences elsewhere in Orlando where every minutes doesn't have to be pre-booked with Fastpasses, ADR's, etc. If offsiters become excluded at any point from FP+ (or noticeably disadvantaged) I would not hesitate to take a pass on the Disney parks completely. You will happily find us at Universal (with Express Passes) or SeaWorld (with Quick Queue) .

 

[2girlsmom]

We're passholders and locals, so probably not stay onsite, but will likely go SOME, though not with the frequency that we have the past couple years, and we will definitely be giving additional business to Universal/Seaworld parks, to which we are also pass holders, not to mention probably staying in Tampa and hitting Busch Gardens even more than the once a month-6 weeks that we are now. I also expect that if things don't smooth out by next October when our Disney passes are due for renewal, we will likely opt not to renew.

 

[shalom]

I said "yes," because we aren't big rides people anyhow, so I think it'll be pretty easy for us to work around FP+. I hope! We've always stayed offsite, and I was seriously considering onsite this time around but we probably won't. Onsite sounds great right up until I get serious about making a reservation, and then I look at the price and consider at the size of the rooms... and make my reservations offsite. At this point, the benefit of staying onsite is an intangible (the "magic"), while the benefits of staying offsite are tangibles (more space, lower price).

So many of the "perks" of onsite just don't appeal to us, and half of what I don't like about the dining plan is having to make your ADRs so early. Having to make fastpass reservations months ahead of time sounds even worse.

 

[2Pirates2Princesses]

I voted yes. I have been keeping a watchful eye on the FP+ threads on the Theme Parks/Attractions forum but have not posted on those threads because #1 there are so many of them, and #2 they seem like back and forth debates over information that is still not definitive at this point. Fortunately, we were able to do our most recent WDW trip with a stay offsite this past May before the FP+ testing began; and we only go to WDW every other year so we are fortunate to have the ability to see how this all unravels before planning our next trip. So in the meantime I am trying to filter out the facts from the speculation which isn't exactly the easiest thing to do. Our family loves the WDW experience so I can't say that we will be among those who stop going all together or take an ultra long hiatus from coming back. With that being said, that doesn't mean I am particularly fond of change, especially when you've established a sort of comfort zone in how you tour the parks; but considering the other changes that have been made since our first WDW trip (strict enforcement of FP return times, 24 hour cancellation policy first on certain TS meals and now on all TS meals, etc.), I am sure we will adapt somehow and it will just change how we plan/tour.
I said this before in another thread that I know WDW is a business first and I understand that they want to make staying onsite as attractive as possible. For my family of six (soon to be seven) staying onsite isn't particularly ideal because we pay a premium to stay at even the value resort level because we need two rooms or a suite, hence the reason why we tried and enjoyed our offsite condo stay this past May after staying onsite for our first WDW trip back in 2011. DH and I had a discussion the other day about how the reality is that WDW has evolved into (and was probably intended to be) the type of vacation destination where the onsite resort hotels are a large part of the "overall" experience which is why WDW encompasses so many square miles with so many Disney owned hotels/resorts and also why these types of debates (offsite vs. onsite, etc.) aren't happening over at Disneyland CA because the targeted market and overall experience down there is much different than that with WDW. So, for my family this means we are willing to watch and see how we will have to adapt to whatever changes are on the horizon. If we are able to stay offsite in a condo again and have the ability to pre-book FP+ (which may very well impact standby times for "second tier" rides as well as the "headliner" rides) then that will be great. If staying offsite means we can't pre-book FP+, then we may have to find a way to make staying onsite again work for us which may involve us doing a split onsite/offsite stay or stay completely onsite but shorten our trip by a day or two in order to buffer the cost. We'll see. In many ways we are still WDW newcomers compared to a lot of people on these boards because we only have two WDW trips under our belt so far, so I understand that it may be easier for us to say we are willing to "watch and adapt" than it is for many other Disney fans that have been going to WDW frequently for many years.

 

[JimMIA]

I said "Yes," but I think the basic premise of this thread is wrong. Most knowledgeable people seem convinced the the FP+ is simply a replacement for the paper FP, and that once the system is tested and de-bugged (it's a mess setting up your account right now), it will be expanded to all guests with park tickets.

The reason I said yes is that our family doesn't go based on something trivial like fast passes. We go for the overall experience. We didn't stop going (or staying onsite) when they trashed DDP -- we just started eating offsite. We don't stop going if we have one trip where the weather is bad.

Fast passes -- any kind -- are really trivial to us. We use them, but if we didn't have them we probably woulnd't notice. It's hard for us to believe people get so incensed over FP+.

A real factor in how often we visit WDW is that as our daughter gets a little older (11 now), our vacations have tended to be much more oriented toward broader experiences than Disney. We still enjoy Disney, and will probably go every couple of years for a few more years, but it's not as important or desireable as it was 5-6 years ago.

 

[Gina-Gina-Bo-Bina]

It's hard for us to believe people get so incensed over FP+.

I am guessing that the fact that you are Florida residents and have the opportunity to visit fairly frequently has a lot to do with that perspective. Infrequent or "once in a lifetime" visitors have a very different point of view on the "hiccups" when they occur.

 

[JimMIA]

I am guessing that the fact that you are Florida residents and have the opportunity to visit fairly frequently has a lot to do with that perspective.

No, that has nothing to do with it. I just think there has been a lot of unnecessary drama over an "issue" which is really nothing more than a possibility at this point, and which most informed folks think will never happen.

And even if Disney did limit FP+ to onsite guests, how is that any different than limiting DME/DDP/EMH and free theme park parking to onsite guests? Should they provide those to everyone to be "fair?"

Or what about Universal's policy of limiting "Front of the Line" to onsite guests -- how is that different?

Infrequent or "once in a lifetime" visitors have a very different point of view on the "hiccups" when they occur.

Seriously...if someone lets their vacation be ruined by the lack of a fast pass, shame on them.

To be honest, the biggest "hiccup" we've had with our upcoming December trip has been the hassle of getting FP+s! I seriously considered canceling the trip after spending most of two days struggling with the Disney website.

 

[f19810]

No, that has nothing to do with it. I just think there has been a lot of unnecessary drama over an "issue" which is really nothing more than a possibility at this point, and which most informed folks think will never happen.

And even if Disney did limit FP+ to onsite guests, how is that any different than limiting DME/DDP/EMH and free theme park parking to onsite guests? Should they provide those to everyone to be "fair?"

Or what about Universal's policy of limiting "Front of the Line" to onsite guests -- how is that different?

Seriously...if someone lets their vacation be ruined by the lack of a fast pass, shame on them.


To be honest, the biggest "hiccup" we've had with our upcoming December trip has been the hassle of getting FP+s! I seriously considered canceling the trip after spending most of two days struggling with the Disney website.

The difference is that the dining plan didn't prevent me from eating in the restraunts and free parking doesn't prevent me from parking. Not having magical express just means that I drive, it doesn't prevent me from going to wdw. At universal anybody can buy the express pass if they want to. If only on site guests get to reserve the rides, it means that I will have to wait in long lines. I can get a fp if any are available, but considering that both tt and ts ran out before ten and not every resort had fp plus, getting on some popular and new rides will be difficult. Hence, my overall pleasure at the parks will go down.

 

[Gina-Gina-Bo-Bina]

Or what about Universal's policy of limiting "Front of the Line" to onsite guests -- how is that different?

Express Pass (front of the line) at Universal is also available for purchase by offsite guests, both a limited version (once per ride) and an unlimited version (bundled with your tickets).

https://www.universalorlando.com/Theme-Park-Tickets/Universal-Express/Express-Passes.aspx

Guests without access to FP+ have no recourse but to "live with it".

 

[shalom]

Guests without access to FP+ have no recourse but to "live with it".

Or to not live with it (skip WDW). Or to stay onsite.

I have seen speculation elsewhere that WDW wants to favor onsite guests because the onsite guests spend more at WDW. I would guess it's true that onsite guests spend more at WDW, for two reasons. First, because onsiters were willing to pay WDW's higher rates for smaller rooms, which indicates that either they aren't money sensitive, or they're willing to pay considerably more for the Disney label. Second, because onsiters without their own car are stuck in the Disney bubble and don't have the option to go elsewhere for food or whatever. Disney's onsite transportation isn't there for the guests' benefit so much as it is for Disney's -- I expect some people onsite figure that offsite prices aren't much better, since prices in touristy areas often are elevated, and they budget for "Disney reality" instead of "Orlando reality." Which goes back to the onsiters aren't as price sensitive as offsiters thing.

My problem with the whole "FP+ is to encourage more people to stay onsite at WDW" is also twofold. First, if more current offsiters shift to onsite, I'm not convinced their spending habits would change that much. If we stayed onsite, Disney would get more money from us for the resorts, but we'd still have a car and we'd still spend a fair percentage offsite. The resort money would come out of our "Disney extras" money -- we'd get fewer pins, eat at fewer WDW restaurants, etc. But second, I keep hearing that WDW resorts are pretty near capacity anyhow; AoA certainly kicked up capacity a good bit, but the various DVC resorts they're working on likely won't.

Although maybe that's the Sekrit Plan -- not just that they privilege onsiters, but that they privilege Deluxe and DVC over Value as well.

OTOH, the Sekrit Plan could be to limit everyone's access to Fastpasses for some of the most popular rides, so people who know best how to work the system (locals and APs, but also those who do their research) don't have such a big "advantage" over the average Disney-goer. Locals with APs certainly don't spend as much per hour in the park as someone from out of town staying onsite with a DDP, so keeping those from out of town happy is probably higher on Disney's priority list.

If someone new complains to a CM that all the FPs are gone and they're having a terrible time, and the CM can sit down with them and help them make FP reservations for the rest of their trip, that could make a big difference in that person's customer satisfaction. Disney could keep a small percentage of the FPs for some of the most popular rides back for just such an occasion, that only the CMs onsite could get hold of, then release them the morning of each day or something, meaning people "in the know" would have a chance at them, too, so it might be a win-win situation for both the people who're miserable now (those who don't plan properly), and for the people who pride themselves on knowing how to work the system.

So FP+ could go either way, IMHO. Could end up benefitting most; could end up just benefiting those willing to pay the price. Whups, three ways -- could be just a mess. Reading comments by CMs some places, I'm not sure Disney knows yet how FP+ will look when it's finally finished. Mind you, our next trip won't be until 2015, so I have the luxury of waiting to see how it all works out.

 

[LadyBeBop]

Answered "yes," based on my experience last week.

We stayed offsite, so we couldn't use FP+. However, we utilized FP to its fullest. We pulled a 12:40 FP for TSM at about 9:30, and that's not too late. Other times were even shorter. We pulled a 3:30 FP for Space Mountain at about 2 PM. Assuming the regular FP is still around, you can still accomplish a lot without FP+.

 

[JimMIA]

First of all -- as I said above -- I think this whole thing is really a non-issue. Offsite people who are concerned about FP+ are afraid of being shut out.

But people whose knowledge and inside info I trust say that FP+ IS going to be expanded to ALL guests. If that proves true, then all of this speculation and drama will be meaningless.

I have seen speculation elsewhere that WDW wants to favor onsite guests because the onsite guests spend more at WDW. I would guess it's true that onsite guests spend more at WDW, for two reasons. First, because onsiters were willing to pay WDW's higher rates for smaller rooms, which indicates that either they aren't money sensitive, or they're willing to pay considerably more for the Disney label. Second, because onsiters without their own car are stuck in the Disney bubble and don't have the option to go elsewhere for food or whatever. Disney's onsite transportation isn't there for the guests' benefit so much as it is for Disney's --

I am quite sure the ONLY reason for DME, DDP, and billing onsite purchases to your room is to contain onsite guests "within the bubble." If Disney can prevent the guest from ever venturing offsite, they have captured all the revenue from that guest they can possibly get without starting an airline and car-rental business -- and they will be happy to sell you those too, for which they get a cut.

My problem with the whole "FP+ is to encourage more people to stay onsite at WDW" is also twofold.

A lot of folks say the purpose of FP+ has nothing to do with providing an incentive for onsite. They say it is simply a way to better manage traffic in the parks and for popular attractions...which is why it will be expanded to offsite as well once they have the MANY bugs out.

Although maybe that's the Sekrit Plan -- not just that they privilege onsiters, but that they privilege Deluxe and DVC over Value as well.

Now THAT part does have some logic. Not only that, the Disney patent on FP+ specifically included language to allow them to tailor the distribution of FP+s, depending on where the guest was staying. So they very well could have different numbers of fast passes for Deluxe guests, DVC, mods, values, and offsite.

 

[f19810]

First of all -- as I said above -- I think this whole thing is really a non-issue. Offsite people who are concerned about FP+ are afraid of being shut out.

But people whose knowledge and inside info I trust say that FP+ IS going to be expanded to ALL guests. If that proves true, then all of this speculation and drama will be meaningless.I am quite sure the ONLY reason for DME, DDP, and billing onsite purchases to your room is to contain onsite guests "within the bubble." If Disney can prevent the guest from ever venturing offsite, they have captured all the revenue from that guest they can possibly get without starting an airline and car-rental business -- and they will be happy to sell you those too, for which they get a cut.

A lot of folks say the purpose of FP+ has nothing to do with providing an incentive for onsite. They say it is simply a way to better manage traffic in the parks and for popular attractions...which is why it will be expanded to offsite as well once they have the MANY bugs out.

Now THAT part does have some logic. Not only that, the Disney patent on FP+ specifically included language to allow them to tailor the distribution of FP+s, depending on where the guest was staying. So they very well could have different numbers of fast passes for Deluxe guests, DVC, mods, values, and offsite.

I have no doubt that FP+ will be available to off site guests. But will you be able to pre book them? Right now the swan and dolphin can only get FP+ by booking them that day at a kiosk in the park. If that is what they are going to offer off site guests, then off site will be at a big disadvantage and will have to get to the park at rope drop to get good fp+.

 

[JimMIA]

I have no doubt that FP+ will be available to off site guests. But will you be able to pre book them? Right now the swan and dolphin can only get FP+ by booking them that day at a kiosk in the park. If that is what they are going to offer off site guests, then off site will be at a big disadvantage and will have to get to the park at rope drop to get good fp+.

I think we're going to have to wait and see what actually happens. Right now, I suspect same-day in-park FP+ scheduling is probably the only way they CAN accommodate Swan-Dolphin guests. With as much trouble as Disney is having with their own in-house system (and it has been a nightmare), they don't need any more problems.

In addition, over on the DVC boards, I see a lot of people canceling pre-scheduled FP+s and either not using them at all or scheduling day by day at the kiosks. A lot of people are finding they just don't want to be tied down to the pre-scheduled days in certain parks or times on certain rides.

Those who are scheduling same-day in-park are reporting wide-open choices of FPs -- basically, "What time do you want to ride Everest?" If that pattern holds when everyone is using FP+s, off-siters may be better off than onsiters who pre-schedule.

I think we'd all do well to take a deep breath and wait to see what happens.

 

[kathy884]

Yes -- We already did a mini trip in late October staying offsite without FP+ and with rope drop, a touring plan, and relatively low crowds, no FP+ was not a problem. We had so much fund and I'd do this again in a heartbeat.

But high season (spring break), I think I'd have to take a look at the touringplan.com optimization programs for what we want to do and see if what things look like in the busy season in terms of line waits and the ability to get FP-. Depending on what I see, maybe I'd even shorten my trip and stay onsite. I almost always up to this point stay offsite as it's such a great value, but I really don't like to do a hotel room for more than four nights and Disney moderates are way more expensive than a two bedroom condo rental. The values don't look overly appealing to me either. Actually I'm not overly thrilled at the thought of the moderate when a two bedroom Villa or four star hotel offsite is just so much nicer and cheaper. Maybe, though, for the couple of fast passes I'd swap my seven night / six day two bedroom condo trip for a four night / three day Disney moderate trip. Cost would be almost the same. On the short trip option, I'd probably do two Disney park days no hopper and SeaWorld in between those two days.

 

[kathy884]

Yes -- We already did a mini trip in late October staying offsite without FP+ and with rope drop, a touring plan, and relatively low crowds, no FP+ was not a problem. We had so much fund and I'd do this again in a heartbeat.

But high season (spring break), I think I'd have to take a look at the touringplan.com optimization programs for what we want to do and see if what things look like in the busy season in terms of line waits and the ability to get FP-. Depending on what I see, maybe I'd even shorten my trip and stay onsite. I almost always up to this point stay offsite as it's such a great value, but I really don't like to do a hotel room for more than four nights and Disney moderates are way more expensive than a two bedroom condo rental. The values don't look overly appealing to me either. Actually I'm not overly thrilled at the thought of the moderate when a two bedroom Villa or four star hotel offsite is just so much nicer and cheaper. Maybe, though, for the couple of fast passes I'd swap my seven night / six day two bedroom condo trip for a four night / three day Disney moderate trip. Cost would be almost the same. On the short trip option, I'd probably do two Disney park days no hopper and SeaWorld in between those two days.

 

[DisneyMountainWoman]

Disneyland is looking great to me right now. None of this mb mess.