Possible Debate inspired by Desperate Housewives.

[Hillbeans]

I've had it both ways. I didn't have children until I was 29, so I worked in an office for about 6 years before having children. I often times told my co-workers who had kids that i'd stay and cover the office on Christmas Eve day, Halloween, and other days that parents wanted off to be with their kids.

When I chose to have children, I have taken much more time off (including my current 3+ months Maternity leave) however I still do pick days where I volunteer to be the one who covers the staff so others (who don't have kids) can take a 3 day weekend or leave early to get their hair done or run errands.

While I do need to take days off if my child is sick, that's why I use personal days, and I would use a personal day or 1/2 a personal day if my child was going to school on the first day. If i'm using a personal day, I shouldn't get "crap" about taking a day off to spend with my kids.

EDIT TO ADD - I do see your point though that if my child was sick, I may need to leave work on the spot, and if I didn't have kids and wanted to leave to go to volunteer my time, I couldn't take off the time. That is just "the way it is" in some offices.

 

[lulugirl]

Yes but then the big bad boss has to enforce the policy and who wants to tell mommy she can't leave work 30 minutes early to watch Joey's T-ball game? Instead they let the mom flex the time - while I may want to leave 30 minutes early because I want to get my haircut and that is the only time available and am told no. That isn't really fair.

~Amanda

I agree, not fair at all.

 

[septbride2002]

I think your feelings may change once you do have kids- you're young and fairly newly married right? I see both sides but if a mom can make up the time she missed - say by staying late- I don't see a problem.

I think putting families first is good but maybe companies can compensate childless people with a day off here and there to make up for not missing as much.

I hated her boss and thought she was nasty. Also it wasn't just any old first day of school- it was THE first day of school for a kindergardner.

I also see both sides of the coin and I'm usually the first one that says, "Aw Joey's first day of school! sure I'll cover for ya! Bring back pictures!"

The part about compensation is what I'm talking about. Is it fair to let mom's flex their time but not let childless people?

~Amanda

 

[In a hurry]

I would be happy to cover for either employee if something as important as the first day of school came up. I've been in both positions, the covered and the coveree. I never minded working holidays when I worked in the hospital. My family wasn't near, and I thought it was nice for as many families as possible to be together. Now that I am teaching, it isn't such a big concern, because of the schedule.

It seems the world would be a much nicer place if people would look out for another rather than griping about "fair."

 

[diznygirl]

Okay - I see your point. Currently I am not contributing to society in that way.

What if I want to leave early every Tues so that I can volunteer at habitat for humanity and am told no. Is that not contributing to society in another way?

~Amanda

Sure, you are contributing to the here and now. But what about the future? That working mommy is building the future.

So just call in sick and go get your hair cut.

 

[septbride2002]

Sure, you are contributing to the here and now. But what about the future? That working mommy is building the future.

So just call in sick and go get your hair cut.

But I am penalized for my sick days! They are part of my review and whether or not I receive a raise, promotion, etc. So I wouldn't want to call in sick to get my hair cut.

~Amanda

 

[Jennifer S]

The part about compensation is what I'm talking about. Is it fair to let mom's flex their time but not let childless people?

~Amanda

No it's not fair. They should let others use flex time but I think like you said for a good cause and you should also have to make the time up - and so should a working mother.

 

[septbride2002]

Sure, you are contributing to the here and now. But what about the future? That working mommy is building the future.

So just call in sick and go get your hair cut.

So I shouldn't get the same consideration from the company I work for because I'm not contributing to the future generations? Is that not reverse discrimination?

~Amanda

 

[lulugirl]

Sure, you are contributing to the here and now. But what about the future? That working mommy is building the future.

So just call in sick and go get your hair cut.

So the childless worker has to use her sick time but the Mom can use flex time?
Not fair IMO.

 

[AllyandJack]

If you choose to work, you shouldn't get any special treatment to attend soccer games, school plays, etc. If there is an illness with a child, it's like any of us without children who have an ill family member - most companies have a policy for people with ill family members.

Save up vacation time for the games and plays. Don't expect me to finish your brief because your daycare charges $10. a minute after 6pm. My firm renamed "maternity leave" after a few people complained. Maybe I want to take 6 months off and be paid, too. I'm childless, but not by choice....so, I'd never the chance to use that benefit. People complained and now it's just called "Paid Leave". Anyone can take up to 6 months off in a given year used in 1 month increments and be paid. Once all 6 months are used, you have to accrue it back again through your billable hours. A friend of mine took a month off to go to India to see her DH's family.

I think it's great. My firm puts family first, but family does not just mean kids. We're all treated the same here and no special provisions are made for non-emergency situations. You either miss the school play or you work a weekend to make up for leaving early if you can leave - if something needs to be done for the next morning and it's not done, you're not leaving unless someone is in the hospital.

 

[va32h]

septbride - I'll admit, you lost me when you brought up "fairness". Very few things in life are fair, and almost nothing that goes on in the workplace is fair. An employer is not a mommy slicing pie and making sure that everyone gets the same size piece.

I'll say it again - the mommies in your office might be able to leave early for Johnny's soccer game, but come promotion time, she'll be remembered as the one you can't always count on during soccer season.

 

[septbride2002]

If you choose to work, you shouldn't get any special treatment to attend soccer games, school plays, etc. If there is an illness with a child, it's like any of us without children who have an ill family member - most companies have a policy for people with ill family members.

Save up vacation time for the games and plays. Don't expect me to finish your brief because your daycare charges $10. a minute after 6pm. My firm renamed "maternity leave" after a few people complained. Maybe I want to take 6 months off and be paid, too. I'm childless, but not by choice....so, I'd never the chance to use that benefit. People complained and now it's just called "Paid Leave". Anyone can take up to 6 months off in a given year used in 1 month increments and be paid. Once all 6 months are used, you have to accrue it back again through your billable hours. A friend of mine took a month off to go to India to see her DH's family.

I think it's great. My firm puts family first, but family does not just mean kids. We're all treated the same here and no special provisions are made for non-emergency situations. You either miss the school play or you work a weekend to make up for leaving early if you can leave - if something needs to be done for the next morning and it's not done, you're not leaving unless someone is in the hospital.

Your post reminded me of something that a few of us at work were discussing.
For maternity leave I would receive 13 weeks 100% paid time off. For adoption leave I would receive only 8 weeks paid time off. I think that is a bunch of bull as well.

~Amanda

 

[Chicago526]

I haven't watched DHW yet, I'll be watching it tonight

In this particular case, the "mom" (Lynette) has a stay-at-home husband that should be able to take the child to his first day of school. There is no reason for her to take time off. Did her husband take time off for his other child's first day of school? I doubt it. First day of school is important, no doubt. But why does the "mom" have to be the one that takes the child. What's wrong with Dad doing it?

Now, if they BOTH worked, that would be differant. One of them should be able to take time off to take the child. But again, why would it have to be 'mom'? If mom has the big meeting and it's a normal work day for dad, what's wrong with him taking personal time and doing it? I think dad's get robbed of a lot of this stuff, and this comes from a woman that plans on having kids in the next few years! I personally would have no problem with my husband taking our child to the first day of kindergarten if I couldn't do it.

Generaly speaking, I think a lot of moms get into trouble because THEY are usually the ones that take time off when kid gets sick/has a field trip/has a day off from school etc. etc. etc. If moms and dads spilt it 50/50, then the mom's boss should (should being the operitave word!) not have as big a problem with time off for Mommy duty since she isn't asking once every two weeks. If a company never grants time off and/or gives an employee a hard time about time off for family matters, then male or female, they should look for a more understanding employer whenever possible.

 

[Free4Life11]

Uh, my parents never went with me to my first day of school IIRC. They put me on the bus and waved goodbye! LOL I bet they were GLAD to ship me off to school

 

[DisneyDmbNut]

I use to have this problem with smokers in my office. Smokers were allowed to go out in the courtyard for a "smoke break" and I as a non-smoker was expected to stay in the office and cover while they did. I was told that I couldn't go out and drink a coke / have a coffee break because I could do that at my desk. I really always saw this as unfair.

As for the topic at hand..I don't call in sick for myself usually. I save my "I won't be in today" for when my DD is sick and DH is on duty. I wouldn't work in a job that dodn't allow me the flexibility of having time off for my DD. That is the reason I have stayed with my current employer for 9 years...I could make WAY more at another job but the flexibility is worth it to me.

 

[septbride2002]

septbride - I'll admit, you lost me when you brought up "fairness". Very few things in life are fair, and almost nothing that goes on in the workplace is fair. An employer is not a mommy slicing pie and making sure that everyone gets the same size piece.

I'll say it again - the mommies in your office might be able to leave early for Johnny's soccer game, but come promotion time, she'll be remembered as the one you can't always count on during soccer season.

Life is rarely fair - I agree. However when it comes to time off I think corporations have an obligation to make things as fair as possible.

~Amanda

 

[Hillbeans]

Also, when our son was born 2 weeks ago, My husband's BOSS gave him a week off paid to spend time with his family.....maybe others in his office (if they knew) would say that was unfair, but IMO, my husband is very loyal to his employer and often goes above and beyond in cases where no one even knows.

 

[ckay87]

My theory in a nutshell:

It benefits society as a whole to allow parents to be good parents.

That is, the kids of these parents will not be kids forever. They will be fellow citizens of the world. Now, did their upbringing enable them to become good citizens or...otherwise? I think that, in part, depends on whether their parents were good to them.

People, in general, are so very very quick to blame parents for a bad kid. For example, if a kid's doing drugs, it's "where are the parents??"

Like I said, let parents do their jobs. It's good for ALL of us. Let a company judge on an individual basis (what my company does) whether an employee is abusing that or not.

 

[NMAmy]

I personally would have no problem with my husband taking our child to the first day of kindergarten if I couldn't do it.

While you might feel this way before having children, you may change your mind when your baby is off to their very first day of school ever. It's a big milestone that most parents do not want to miss. When dd was young, my ex and I did divide up a lot of events/illness, etc.--he's go to one and I'd go to another or we'd take turns staying home with her when she was ill (we didn't divorce till dd was older.) However, the first day of kindergarten was something we both wanted to see and we both went with her.

Luckily, I had an employer who had no problem with me doing this.

 

[septbride2002]

I use to have this problem with smokers in my office. Smokers were allowed to go out in the courtyard for a "smoke break" and I as a non-smoker was expected to stay in the office and cover while they did. I was told that I couldn't go out and drink a coke / have a coffee break because I could do that at my desk. I really always saw this as unfair.

As for the topic at hand..I don't call in sick for myself usually. I save my "I won't be in today" for when my DD is sick and DH is on duty. I wouldn't work in a job that dodn't allow me the flexibility of having time off for my DD. That is the reason I have stayed with my current employer for 9 years...I could make WAY more at another job but the flexibility is worth it to me.

EXACTLY! Your smoker break situation is almost parallel to what I'm trying to say. I don't need the time off because I don't have a child and therefore it is not as important. Meanwhile Barb can have the time because her kiddo has a soccer game at 3pm.

~Amanda