Poly DVC Plans to be Expanded

[Andrew015]

Perhaps this has already been discussed over on the DVC Resorts page, but in any event, it would more fitting for the News & Rumors board. For those that are not familiar with Tikiman, he is a valued member of DISBoards and has one of the most in-depth websites dedicated specifically to the Polynesian Resort: http://www.tikimanpages.com/poly/

While this "rumor" is yet to make it to the blog portion of his webpage, he did post this update on his Facebook page yesterday.

"I will have more news once I get more details on some things that are planned but part of the news is that because of the amount of interest in Polynesian DVC, they feel they will have to convert more rooms into DVC. It seems they have now targeted Tokelau to be converted".

Tikiman was a little reluctant to post this on his Facebook page, as the information still seemed to be fluid. As many of us know, the plans for Poly DVC have already been changed a number of times since the project was officially announced. I wouldn't be shocked if this particular piece of the plan changed, but it seems to be on the burner as of the present.

 

[rteetz]

I follow tikiman very frequently and from the sounds of his posts he is not too happy with what may be happening at the Poly. When this is all said and done it looks like the Poly will have a completely different look. I'm not a DVC member nor am I looking to be one at the moment but I'm very interested to see what all the changes will end up being. I post updates on the Poly regularly on the Disney news thread.

 

[Andrew015]

He is not very happy about this recent change, nor are a number of other Polynesian faithful. There are essentially three factions of people that are involved in this dialogue:

• Loyal Polynesian fans that are not DVC Members
• Current DVC Members that would love to take advantage of Poly DVC
• Folks that have been "holding out" to purchase Poly DVC

The general consensus is that the first two groups of people are "screwed" for lack of better terms. For the first group, a large portion of the Polynesian is being taken "off limits" and made exclusively DVC. This will drive demand for the remaining "cash rooms" sky-high, and along with it, pricing for said rooms, thus putting the Polynesian out of reach for many. The second group of people (myself included) will not benefit, either, as the high demand for Poly DVC will cause two things to happen: 1.) high demand will set the nightly points requirement very high and 2.) high demand will cause no availability at the 7-month booking window, thus essentially requiring one to "own" there as your home resort in order to take advantage of this DVC add-on. Again, this puts Poly DVC out of reach for many existing DVC owners such as myself.

Really, the only folks that are happy about this change are the people that have been holding out to buy Poly DVC. It is going to be one very expensive proposition (much like VGF, perhaps even moreso), not to mention all of the major changes to this iconic resort. My only hope is that these changes leave the look and feel of the resort much the same as it stands today.

 

[Unyeah]

Omg this is awesome can't wait ! Thanks for the news!

 

[Andrew015]

Hot off the press:

http://www.tikimanpages.com/poly/news/item/200-more-changes

It seems like every week some new information is coming out. Trying to verify it all and separate out the false rumors from the facts has been difficult. Even information that has been accurate has changed making it difficult to keep up with it all. I know it is frustrating for the Cast Members to try and keep up with the current information when they are not always told right away. They have to deal with confused and sometimes frustrated guests.

Lets get to the latest information….before it changes again.

We saw that Captain Cook’s finally closed and moved into its temporary location. One morning it was open and by the end of the day it was relocated. With Captain Cook’s location closed. Wyland Gallery closed and the arcade closed it leaves room to start renovations. Originally I was told that Trader Sam’s would go in the area right outside Captain Cook’s. Some of the latest information says that Trader Sam’s will go into the arcade area with a small seating area inside and a larger seating area outside. This information conflicts with what I was originally told because that area outside the arcade was described as the location for the new kids wet play area. If Trader Sam’s patio is going in there then maybe the kids wet play area is going where the marina rental building is. I was told that building will move over to where the premium cabana is once the pool deck renovation is done.

There was mention word that Wyland gallery will have a new space in part of the old arcade also. At the same time some are telling me Wyland will not be back. It seems like a small area to have the gallery and Trader Sam’s. I guess we will have to wait and see if that is true. As for the old Wyland gallery area, I keep hearing from different sources that it will become an ice cream shop and there will be an order window for Dole Whips. No more self-serve. I saw that one coming. There has been a lot of abuse from people either taking Dole Whips without paying or dispensing huge amounts into their small cup. At one point when I was there people had run the dispenser for so long that they broke it and it was down for most of the day.

The pool is still on track to close the end of July and be closed until March 2015. While the pool is closed they will have a temporary bar set up at the East Pool. Last Saturday (April 12) saw the last of the torch lighting for a while but I am told a designated area of the new pool deck will be where the torch lighting will continue once it is open again.

It seems that Disney is getting so more interest in the new Disney Vacation Club part of the property than they have with any other DVC property. Because of this they are now saying that they will convert Tokelau into DVC units along with Tahiti and Rapa Nui. This is the first I have ever heard them mention doing this so it seems that the increased interest is now driving decisions to change the plan. I was very surprised but I guess it makes sense to convert Tokelau since it has the larger rooms like Tahiti and Rapa Nui. With the rooms in these 3 longhouses at 465 sqft it would make them the largest studios in all of the DVC collection. If I did my math right, the Polynesian studios should be 90 sqft larger than the Grand Floridian studios. It will be interesting if they change their plan and make some of the Tokelau rooms one bedrooms since so far the new walls up in Tahiti and Rapa Nui look like they are all studios. The only problem I see is you would never have the option of a one bedroom with a lagoon or Themepark view. With those 3 longhouses out of the main inventory, this will leave 486 rooms available to non-DVC owners. This would be the same amount of rooms that were at the resort when it opened in 1971.

There is a lot of information about DVC that I am told from a few sources that seem to have the same theme to them. The theme is that the Polynesian will not be like the other DVCs in some ways. I don’t know much about DVC and when I mention some things to people who know a lot they don’t believe the information. I don’t know how much to believe either so it may just be something we have to wait and see how it turns out. Hopefully it will not be as bad as I am hearing but let’s go over some of the rumors I have been hearing from inside Disney.

They have talked about the DVC at the Polynesian not being available to people booking with cash like you can do at other DVC locations. I even heard that they bungalows could not be booked if you did not buy into the Polynesian DVC. Not sure how much of that to believe but I would not be surprised. Even if you have DVC points but your home resort is not the Polynesian they seem to think it will be extremely difficult to book at the Polynesian.

Some other ideas being discussed is having the Polynesian DVC buy into a specific week.

There is mention that the DVC part of the resort will not be part of the non-DVC part so the resort will not be getting any of the revenue from the DVC. That seems strange to me but again I am just going by what I am told. Because the regular part of the resort will not be getting money from the DVC side and they will be down to 486 rooms, they will have to increase the room rates to be the highest out of all the Disney properties. With all the complaints now about rates I am very surprised to hear that. I guess we will have to wait and see what happens with that.

Other things being discussed internally are the possibility of bringing back the idea of adding another pool for DVC. No word on where it would go but the original concept had the additional pool over between Tahiti, Rapa Nui and Tokelau.

I don’t know how these changes will affect the finish date but they were looking at late 2015 or early 2016 to be done with everything at the resort. I think once the pool opens back up next year we will be past the worst of it.

That is all I have for now and I think it is safe to say we don’t really know what will happen until they are all done so take this information for what it is worth.

Once DVC opens in late 2015 I will be looking for the good folks over at **************** to break it all down for us along with my site expert Duane.

 

[MagicJourney]

Thanks for the heads up. That's some exciting news!

 

[jade1]

Thanks for the updates.

Never really loved our cash stays there, yet the beach/bar area was always enjoyable. And with TTC next door-might be enough to make a stay.

Actually we enjoy DVC expansion, I know many hate it. But we have 11 month windows where we want so no problem with ressies.

With VGF studios as low as 17 points a night, I would think even renting would be cheaper than even current POLY pricing. I paid $700 about 8 years ago, that would be like 30 points a night at $25 a point (with tax considerations).

 

[TheRustyScupper]

1) The "expansion" of DVC into Poly rooms was a rumor from the start.
2) The Poly has an large unacceptable occupancy rate when compared to GF-WL-BC/YC-BW.
. . . other resorts are also down in occupancy rates
. . . if you notice, WDW now advertises their hotels and not the parks
. . . people are electing to go off-site more and more
. . . it is harder and harder to see "Disney" theming at the non-Value resorts
. . . all the resorts do have good themes, but not the "Disney Feel" as in the past *
3) Since Disney gets immediate cash/profit from DVC sales, they are really happy.
. . . they reap between $500m-$1b
. . . this is done in 24-36 months, not 30-years
. . . and, the cash flow is terrific, since they payoff the loans over 30-years

* IMHO

 

[Andrew015]

Thanks for the updates.

Actually we enjoy DVC expansion, I know many hate it. But we have 11 month windows where we want so no problem with ressies.

Speaking for what I believe to be the majority, I don't believe that most of us hate DVC expansion. Rather, we hate fundamental changes to an existing resort that is great "as-is".

What they are doing at Poly is unprescidented, with large, fundamental changes to the existing parent-resort as part of the DVC expansion process. We have never seen changes of this magnitude at other resorts that have received DVC add-on's. For example, Contemporary, Wilderness Lodge, AKL, Grand Floridian, etc. - have all received DVC expansions, but they have been seemlessly and elegently integrated as part of the parent resort with minimal changes or fanfare to the existing infastructure, amenities, theming, etc. I think the most drastic change that we have seen elsewhere would be at the Contemporary with the demo of a garden wing to make way for BLT. By and large, the experience for a cash-guest hasn't really changed much at these resorts (good or bad), and everbody seems to win in this scenario. The Polynesian, on the other hand, is getting blown up and we are yet to see what is going to get churned out as a result. The writing is on the wall that room availability for cash guests is going to literally be cut in half, with higher demand leading to higher prices. Consequently, for DVC guests, high demand is going to lead to record high point costs per night and substantial buy-in costs. Rather than a "win-win", this one appears to be a "lose-lose", unless of course you have $30K - $50K available to sink in on 150 - 300 points as a new Poly DVC owner.

I am clinging to some optimism that the end result of the construction is going to be spectacular, but past experiences of "change" at Disney has me leery. I wish I had some optimism that we could reasonably obtain a week's stay (either cash or DVC) at the Poly moving forward, but again, the glimmer of hope on this front seems to be fading quickly.

 

[anthony2k7]

2) The Poly has an large unacceptable occupancy rate when compared to GF-WL-BC/YC-BW.
. . . other resorts are also down in occupancy rates
. . . if you notice, WDW now advertises their hotels and not the parks
. . . people are electing to go off-site more and more
. . . it is harder and harder to see "Disney" theming at the non-Value resorts
. . . all the resorts do have good themes, but not the "Disney Feel" as in the past *

Of course occupancy is down - its just too darn expensive on property at WDW for what you get. As you say, the magic/Disney Feel is being taken away whilst the prices are going up. So surprise surprise, occupancy goes down.

I'm sure occupancy will go up at Poly initially after the refurb, and the top guys will love the boost in cash flow for the first 5 years. Then after 5 years cash guests will realise that not only did the paint not look so fresh for long, but also that a lot of magic was lost as well along the way. Also the DVC cash boost will have dried up. Then what?

 

[Andrew015]

Also the DVC cash boost will have dried up. Then what?

That's the beauty of DVC (for Disney, anyway) - The revenue stream doesn't dry up for 50 years or until contract expiration. And they will only need to fill roughly 1/2 of the rooms that currently exist today on cash reservations once the balance are converted to DVC. It's all but certain that Poly DVC will sell out in record time.

 

[tfc3rid]

Don't forget the constant increase in Annual Dues... Disney will get the huge initial buy in at the Polynesian and can always charge a very high annual dues rate in order to keep that constant revenue stream in place and make the DVC portion self sustaining.

 

[anthony2k7]

That's the beauty of DVC (for Disney, anyway) - The revenue stream doesn't dry up for 50 years or until contract expiration. And they will only need to fill roughly 1/2 of the rooms that currently exist today on cash reservations once the balance are converted to DVC. It's all but certain that Poly DVC will sell out in record time.

I'm no expert on DVC, but I thought I read previously that the business model depends on always adding new capacity to sell. That has to reach a saturation point one day surely? They cant just keep building more and more DVC endlessly.

 

[KYMickey]

I'm no expert on DVC, but I thought I read previously that the business model depends on always adding new capacity to sell. That has to reach a saturation point one day surely? They cant just keep building more and more DVC endlessly.

Don't forget, you never really buy a DVC unit, you in effect lease it because after a given number of years it reverts back to Disney. At that point they can either resell it as it is or tear it down and build something new. Once the order resorts start recycling they won't need to build any new units because they will in effect be reselling old ones.

 

[jade1]

Speaking for what I believe to be the majority, I don't believe that most of us hate DVC expansion. Rather, we hate fundamental changes to an existing resort that is great "as-is".

What they are doing at Poly is unprescidented, with large, fundamental changes to the existing parent-resort as part of the DVC expansion process. We have never seen changes of this magnitude at other resorts that have received DVC add-on's. For example, Contemporary, Wilderness Lodge, AKL, Grand Floridian, etc. - have all received DVC expansions, but they have been seemlessly and elegently integrated as part of the parent resort with minimal changes or fanfare to the existing infastructure, amenities, theming, etc. I think the most drastic change that we have seen elsewhere would be at the Contemporary with the demo of a garden wing to make way for BLT. By and large, the experience for a cash-guest hasn't really changed much at these resorts (good or bad), and everbody seems to win in this scenario. The Polynesian, on the other hand, is getting blown up and we are yet to see what is going to get churned out as a result. The writing is on the wall that room availability for cash guests is going to literally be cut in half, with higher demand leading to higher prices. Consequently, for DVC guests, high demand is going to lead to record high point costs per night and substantial buy-in costs. Rather than a "win-win", this one appears to be a "lose-lose", unless of course you have $30K - $50K available to sink in on 150 - 300 points as a new Poly DVC owner.

I am clinging to some optimism that the end result of the construction is going to be spectacular, but past experiences of "change" at Disney has me leery. I wish I had some optimism that we could reasonably obtain a week's stay (either cash or DVC) at the Poly moving forward, but again, the glimmer of hope on this front seems to be fading quickly.

I know, I read response #3 above-that's partly why I said "many" people hate it, never said the majority.

But there are more reasons they hate expansion in general-not just at the POLY and the way its being done. I for one would rather see them expand into something with high demand, than low demand like SSR dumping thousands into the "7 months get what I really want" pool. Some hate DVC expansion because there are not enough attractions.

But for us anyway, the POLY expansion may very well get us back for a stay-it was completely off our list before, so not a lose-lose. And with enough improvement over past stays, we could end up adding on or buying a resale there one day.

 

[DPCummerbund]

1) The "expansion" of DVC into Poly rooms was a rumor from the start.
2) The Poly has an large unacceptable occupancy rate when compared to GF-WL-BC/YC-BW.
. . . other resorts are also down in occupancy rates

I think this is very interesting. I've never stayed at the Poly, but I've visited several times & I've always wanted to stay there. Although I loved all the plants, the landscaping, and the waterfall, IMHO the resort does look "dated" and I'm personally excited to see how it will look when it's finished. If the rumors are true and it ends up looking something like Aulani, I think it will be terrific.

I haven't looked at occupancy rates, I always assumed that the Poly was high, based on all the positive Poly feedback on the internet. However, if the Poly has particularly low occupancy, it may be struggling with a problem that is common to hotels - and more so to restaurants and retail stores.

Basically, they have a core group of "fans" who have been there many times, love it the way it is, and don't want anything to change. However, people who aren't already attached to it don't feel the same way, and are more likely to see all the flaws since they don't have that "history". Over time, the hotel/restaurant becomes less and less popular, as that core group dwindles over time, and fewer new people are interested.

If occupancy is down, you lose some rooms to the DVC, and occupancy shoots up. The DVC pool is limited, so you're pretty much going to have to own there to stay there, leading to a quick sellout - both from new people and add-ons. The resort is full, DVC owners are happy, and Disney makes a boatload of cash quickly. So, from Disney's perspective, I can see that it's a win-win.

The only people who lose are the people who like things "the way they used to be", but since change is constant, those people lose everything, everywhere (not just at WDW), all the time anyway.


As for the DVC cost - I don't follow DVC that closely, but from my recollection, DVC has never charged drastically different prices for resorts that are on sale at the same time. For example, many people thought DVC was going to charge $175 per point for VGF, and they surprised a lot of people by only charging $145 per point - similar to existing resorts. They made up for it by charging more per point. I wouldn't be surprised to see them go this route for the Poly as well. I'm almost wondering whether the Poly could finally be the first "investment property" in the DVC - if owners could charge enough of a premium when renting points to make it a worthwhile investment.

 

[kristenrice]

Don't forget the constant increase in Annual Dues... Disney will get the huge initial buy in at the Polynesian and can always charge a very high annual dues rate in order to keep that constant revenue stream in place and make the DVC portion self sustaining.

Just to clarify, the annual dues at each resort are determined by the actual operating expenses of that resort. Disney (DVC) cannot arbitrarily raise dues to create a revenue stream. After the Aulani debacle, you can bet that the annual dues are watched very closely and monitored for accuracy. There is even speculation that the dues at BLT were set "artificially" low when the resort was first sold. Now, there are upgrades and refurbs that are needed and there is not enough in the capital reserve fund. As a result, BLT owners have had significant % increases in the MF's over the past 2 years.

I have never stayed at the Poly as it was always well outside of my price range. I really have no driving desire to stay there as a DVC member either. I own at AKV and I love it there. The DVC properties are all beautiful and I know that they will do a great job with the Poly, but I'm sure the points required to stay there will be WAY more than my AKV home. I am interested to see what happens.

 

[beer dave]

He is not very happy about this recent change, nor are a number of other Polynesian faithful. There are essentially three factions of people that are involved in this dialogue:

• Loyal Polynesian fans that are not DVC Members
• Current DVC Members that would love to take advantage of Poly DVC
• Folks that have been "holding out" to purchase Poly DVC

The general consensus is that the first two groups of people are "screwed" for lack of better terms. For the first group, a large portion of the Polynesian is being taken "off limits" and made exclusively DVC. This will drive demand for the remaining "cash rooms" sky-high, and along with it, pricing for said rooms, thus putting the Polynesian out of reach for many. The second group of people (myself included) will not benefit, either, as the high demand for Poly DVC will cause two things to happen: 1.) high demand will set the nightly points requirement very high and 2.) high demand will cause no availability at the 7-month booking window, thus essentially requiring one to "own" there as your home resort in order to take advantage of this DVC add-on. Again, this puts Poly DVC out of reach for many existing DVC owners such as myself.

Really, the only folks that are happy about this change are the people that have been holding out to buy Poly DVC. It is going to be one very expensive proposition (much like VGF, perhaps even moreso), not to mention all of the major changes to this iconic resort. My only hope is that these changes leave the look and feel of the resort much the same as it stands today.

Maybe it will be hard to book at the 7 for the first couple of years-- like BLT--but in time Poly owners will want to vary their visits and booking will open up.

I see nothing but benefit for current owners. Especially long time owners. I get to stay at the Poly for half of what the new owners pay. (or less)

 

[skier_pete]

As for the DVC cost - I don't follow DVC that closely, but from my recollection, DVC has never charged drastically different prices for resorts that are on sale at the same time. For example, many people thought DVC was going to charge $175 per point for VGF, and they surprised a lot of people by only charging $145 per point - similar to existing resorts. They made up for it by charging more per point.

I think this is what will happen. They will probably charge roughly the same for the base points, but they will make the AMOUNT of points for a room more expensive - much like BLT and VGC. For instance, a middle-season studio mid-week 1-night stay at WLV or BWV might be 17 points a night, while BLT and VGC for the same night is 24 points a night, a 50 % "premium" in cost. My guess is you see a similar type premium for the Poly villas.

I admit the idea of the Poly is what first tweaked me to look at DVC, but buying direct from Disney is just too damn expensive. Never been to the Poly myself since its always been out of my price range.

 

[HM]

I stayed at the Poly once and it didn't wow me unfortunately. The cost to stay there has risen substantially since that trip so it's never been a choice for us since then and we've wanted to try other resorts. However, I feel terrible for my Brother and SIL and their family as it's been their dream to stay there after eating at 'Ohana one year. They've put off a trip several times due to one thing or other. They might have visited this year, but I told them about the construction, so they are once again putting it off. I don't know if they'll ever stay there now.