Political: Its been a week or more and still no lawsuit....

Kerry obviously has considerable appeal to the people of Massachusetts. But the people of Massachusetts are generally to the left of the majority in this country. Not saying that's good or bad -- but it does make a national election much different from a Massachusetts election.

MA hasn't had a Democrat for governor since Dukakis. I know many very conservative Republicans who are MA voters. My hometown has the most right wing Christian Conservative for a rep that I have ever met in my life. I've known her since I was 4
 
Originally posted by wvrevy
Not stupidity...I just think most people are too concerned with what is happening in their own, immediate lives to pay much attention to what is going on on the grander scale. There's a saying in politics: "All politics is local". The reason for that is that most people are only concerned with how policies are going to affect their lives. They don't have the inclination to really dig to find out all the facts, so they go with what they hear. We live in a soundbite culture, and trying to deny that is just foolish. It's not stupidity...Voters are capable of understnding the issues if they take the time. It's apathy.

Yeah....I'm sure that the rest of the country looked at the quarter of a million people marching PEACEFULLY to protest this regime and thought "boy....that Shrub fella must be doin' SOMETHIN' right...He really IS a uniter, not a divider" :rolleyes:

So long as the protests don't turn violent, they simply go to show the lies of the right.

Again, this is JMO, but from a political standpoint, I don't think the protests do much for the Kerry campaign (and certainly have the potential to do a lot of damage if they become violent).

Protesting is action, of a sort, but it has a decidedly negative tone to it. I know that message plays well to the base, but that's about all it does.

Kerry needs to get out and face the voters, and the meda. Why is he doing this disappearing act now? And I'm not the only one asking that question....many of the left leaning bloggers are asking it too,
 
Oh, I understand that jydberg. I was just wondering because I see people of Mass. complaining about him on the DIS. I was wondering why he kept getting re-elected if he was that awful.

And you're right. State elections are very different from national elections and state to state, depending on how the state "leans". Like I can't imagine Bush running for Govenor here in PA and winning! :eek: But then again, we did vote Tom Ridge into offfice as Governor, so who knows! :eek: I guess PA is one of those middle of the road states, God knows who will be in office next! :eek:

Want to run? I'll write your name in for you this time! ;) :p :Pinkbounc
 
Democrat/Republican does not determine where one lies on the political spectrum.

The fact is Massachusetts is one of the most (if not the most) liberal states in the union. Doesn't mean everyone there is a Democrat... or even liberal ;) But on the whole, I think it's fairly clear that Massachusetts is on the left, politically speaking, relative to country as a whole.
 

Originally posted by Crankyshank
MA hasn't had a Democrat for governor since Dukakis. I know many very conservative Republicans who are MA voters. My hometown has the most right wing Christian Conservative for a rep that I have ever met in my life. I've known her since I was 4

That's really interesting!
 
Originally posted by Saffron

Want to run? I'll write your name in for you this time! ;) :p :Pinkbounc

And here I thought you liked me! :eek: No need to condemn me to political office! ;)
 
Originally posted by wvrevy
Yeah....I'm sure that the rest of the country looked at the quarter of a million people marching PEACEFULLY to protest this regime and thought "boy....that Shrub fella must be doin' SOMETHIN' right...He really IS a uniter, not a divider" :rolleyes:


First off, even left leaning Dan Rather and CBS News are reporting that is was more like 100K marching:

www.cbsnews.com

so lets not exagerate this anymore than it needs to be.


And a 100K protesters that could come from the northeast corredor isn't really a big, big number is it? Hell, you get 100K for a U of Michigan football game. 60K for a WVU game. So you have some protesters in the largest city in the largest area of liberalism. Big deal.
 
Originally posted by peachgirl
It's a smart move, but for those who don't just swallow anything they're told, it's easy enough to see that the claim is not true.

"Kerry developed a very different record of accomplishment--one often as vital, if not more so, than passage of bills. Kerry's probe didn't create any popular new governmental programs, reform the tax code, or eliminate bureaucratic waste and fraud. Instead, he shrewdly used the Senate's oversight powers to address the threat of terrorism well before it was in vogue, and dismantled a key terrorist weapon. In the process, observers saw a senator with tremendous fortitude, and a willingness to put the public good ahead of his own career. Those qualities might be hard to communicate to voters via one-line sound bites, but they would surely aid Kerry as president in his attempts to battle the threat of terrorism."

Yeah, Kerry's response to the first WTC bombing in '93? Lets cut the Intelligence budget! That is addressing the issue isn't it?

Public good ahead of his own career? BAHAHAHAHAH.... I just thought that was a good spinner!!! Why hasn't he shown up for work? Why hasn't he made the attempt to vote or show up for work in D.C. while on the campain trail? If he couldn't do the job, why hasn't he resigned as the junior senator of Mass?

It's easy not to make enemies if all you do is stand in the background and do nothing!!! 22 to 24 years and not come up with one good ideal? To not sponser one bill? How is this when this man has the need and the ego to be known? This man is all about getting his name out, of being known. By staying in the background for that long of time, it sounds like a coniving way to look better than he is. He probably orchestrated major non-popular bills but didn't want the credit (or arrows) that come along with that work so that he wouldn't look bad to the public. Nothing like taking a stand in what one believes in.

Goes with his personallity. He won't take a stand unless he knows what his audience's position is!!!
 
War Making Headlines, but Peace Breaks Out

Sun Aug 29, 1:55 PM ET

By CHARLES J. HANLEY, AP Special Correspondent

The chilling sights and sounds of war fill newspapers and television screens worldwide, but war itself is in decline, peace researchers report.


In fact, the number killed in battle has fallen to its lowest point in the post-World War II period, dipping below 20,000 a year by one measure. Peacemaking missions, meantime, are growing in number.


"International engagement is blossoming," said American scholar Monty G. Marshall. "There's been an enormous amount of activity to try to end these conflicts."


For months the battle reports and casualty tolls from Iraq (news - web sites) and Afghanistan (news - web sites) have put war in the headlines, but Swedish and Canadian non-governmental groups tracking armed conflict globally find a general decline in numbers from peaks in the 1990s.


The authoritative Stockholm International Peace Research Institute, in a 2004 Yearbook report obtained by The Associated Press in advance of publication, says 19 major armed conflicts were under way worldwide in 2003, a sharp drop from 33 wars counted in 1991.


The Canadian organization Project Ploughshares, using broader criteria to define armed conflict, says in its new annual report that the number of conflicts declined to 36 in 2003, from a peak of 44 in 1995.


The Stockholm institute counts continuing wars that have produced 1,000 or more battle-related deaths in any single year. Project Ploughshares counts any armed conflict that produces 1,000 such deaths cumulatively.


The Stockholm report, to be released in September, notes three wars ended as of 2003 — in Angola, Rwanda and Somalia — and a fourth, the separatist war in India's Assam state, was dropped from the "major" category after casualties were recalculated.


It lists three new wars in 2003 — in Liberia (news - web sites) and in Sudan's western region of Darfur, along with the U.S.-British invasion of Iraq. These joined such long-running conflicts as the Kashmiri insurgency in India, the leftist guerrilla war in Colombia, and the separatist war in Russia's Chechnya (news - web sites) region.


Other major armed conflicts listed by the Stockholm researchers were in Algeria, Burundi, Peru, Indonesia's Aceh province, Myanmar, Nepal, Sri Lanka, Israel, and Turkey. Their list also includes the U.S.-al-Qaida war, mainly in Afghanistan, the unresolved India-Pakistan conflict, and two insurgencies in the Philippines.


"Not only are the numbers declining, but the intensity" — the bloodshed in each conflict — "is declining," said Marshall, founder of a University of Maryland program studying political violence.


The continuing wars in Algeria, Chechnya and Turkey are among those that have subsided into low-intensity conflicts. At Canada's University of British Columbia, scholars at the Human Security Center are quantifying this by tackling the difficult task of calculating war casualties worldwide for their Human Security Report, to be released late in 2004.


A collaboration with Sweden's Uppsala University, that report will conservatively estimate battle-related deaths worldwide at 15,000 in 2002 and, because of the Iraq war, rising to 20,000 in 2003. Those estimates are sharply down from annual tolls ranging from 40,000 to 100,000 in the 1990s, a time of major costly conflicts in such places as the former Zaire and southern Sudan, and from a post-World War II peak of 700,000 in 1951.


The Canadian center's director, Andrew Mack, said the figures don't include deaths from war-induced starvation and disease, deaths from ethnic conflicts not involving states, or unopposed massacres, such as in Rwanda in 1994.


Why the declines? Peace scholars point to crosscurrents of global events.


For one thing, the Cold War's end and breakup of the Soviet Union in 1989-91 ignited civil and separatist wars in the old East bloc and elsewhere, as the superpowers' hands were lifted in places where they'd long held allies in check. Those wars surged in the early 1990s.


"The decline over the past decade measures the move away from that unusual period," said Ernie Regehr, director of Project Ploughshares.


At the same time, however, the U.S.-Russian thaw worked against war as well, scholars said, by removing superpower support in "proxy wars," as in Ethiopia, Mozambique and Cambodia. With dwindling money and arms, warmakers had to seek peace.

The United Nations (news - web sites) and regional bodies, meanwhile, were mobilizing for more effective peacemaking worldwide.

"The end of the Cold War liberated the U.N." — historically paralyzed by U.S.-Soviet antagonism — "to do what its founders had originally intended and more," Mack said.

In 2003 alone, from Ivory Coast to the Solomon Islands, 14 multilateral missions were launched to protect or reinforce peace settlements, the highest number of new peace missions begun in a single year since the Cold War, the Stockholm institute will report.

The recent record shows "conflicts don't end without some form of intervention from outside," said Renata Dwan, who heads the institute's program on armed conflict and conflict management.

Most new missions, half of which were in Africa, were undertaken by regional organizations or coalitions of states, often with U.N. sanction.

The idea of U.N. primacy in world peace and security took a "bruising" at U.S. hands in 2003, when Washington circumvented the U.N. Security Council to invade Iraq, Dwan noted. But meanwhile, elsewhere, the world body was deploying a monthly average of 38,500 military peacekeepers in 2003 — triple the level of 1999.

By year's end, the institute yearbook will conclude, "the U.N. was arguably in a stronger position than at any time in recent years."
 
Originally posted by spearenb
First off, even left leaning Dan Rather and CBS News are reporting that is was more like 100K marching:

www.cbsnews.com

so lets not exagerate this anymore than it needs to be.


And a 100K protesters that could come from the northeast corredor isn't really a big, big number is it? Hell, you get 100K for a U of Michigan football game. 60K for a WVU game. So you have some protesters in the largest city in the largest area of liberalism. Big deal.
I'm sorry, but Dan Rather and CBS News is just plain WRONG. The lowest estimate I've seen ANYWHERE else is 140,000, and that was from someone "in the administration" in New York. The march organizers, of course, inflated their totals considerably, but 250,000 sounds (and looked) about right. They were marching past Madison Square Garden for more than 4 HOURS, fer' cryin' out loud...The protest stretched curb to curb for BLOCKS through downtown Manhatten. I've been to 9 of the top 10 games at Mountaineer Field in terms of attendance, and I can promise you it NEVER took that long to exit the stadium :teeth:
 
Originally posted by spearenb
Yeah, Kerry's response to the first WTC bombing in '93? Lets cut the Intelligence budget! That is addressing the issue isn't it?

Public good ahead of his own career? BAHAHAHAHAH.... I just thought that was a good spinner!!! Why hasn't he shown up for work? Why hasn't he made the attempt to vote or show up for work in D.C. while on the campain trail? If he couldn't do the job, why hasn't he resigned as the junior senator of Mass?

It's easy not to make enemies if all you do is stand in the background and do nothing!!! 22 to 24 years and not come up with one good ideal? To not sponser one bill? How is this when this man has the need and the ego to be known? This man is all about getting his name out, of being known. By staying in the background for that long of time, it sounds like a coniving way to look better than he is. He probably orchestrated major non-popular bills but didn't want the credit (or arrows) that come along with that work so that he wouldn't look bad to the public. Nothing like taking a stand in what one believes in.

Goes with his personallity. He won't take a stand unless he knows what his audience's position is!!!
More hypocracy, and more evidence that people only listen to SOUND BYTES :rolleyes:

...according to Dana Milbank in the Washington Post, "President Bush's nominee to be the director of central intelligence, Rep. Porter J. Goss (R-Fla.), sponsored legislation that would have cut intelligence personnel by 20 percent in the late 1990s." What? Surely not! Milbank continues, "the cuts Goss supported are larger than those proposed by Kerry and specifically targeted the 'human intelligence' that has recently been found lacking..." So check it out - according to the Post, "Kerry, in September 1995, proposed a five-year, $1.5 billion cut in the intelligence budget, about 1 percent of the overall intelligence budget." And Goss? Well, he "was one of six original co-sponsors of legislation titled H.R. 1923, called the Restructuring a Limited Government Act. Among other things, the legislation, written by then-Rules Committee Chairman Gerald B.H. Solomon (R-N.Y.), directed that 'the president shall, for each of fiscal years 1996 through 2000, reduce the total number of military and civilian personnel employed by, or assigned or detailed to, elements of the Intelligence Community by not less than 4 percent of the baseline number' of employees on Sept. 30, 1995." How bizarre. Surely appointing someone like that proves without a shadow of a doubt that deriding John Kerry for proposing cuts in intelligence services is just mindbendingly hypocritical. And if Bush really believes that people who propose cutting intelligence funding are not only dangerous but possibly in league with the terrorists, why does he want to make one of them the head of the CIA? I'm scratching my head here...

:rotfl:
 
Originally posted by wvrevy
I'm sorry, but Dan Rather and CBS News is just plain WRONG. The lowest estimate I've seen ANYWHERE else is 140,000, and that was from someone "in the administration" in New York. The march organizers, of course, inflated their totals considerably, but 250,000 sounds (and looked) about right. They were marching past Madison Square Garden for more than 4 HOURS, fer' cryin' out loud...The protest stretched curb to curb for BLOCKS through downtown Manhatten. I've been to 9 of the top 10 games at Mountaineer Field in terms of attendance, and I can promise you it NEVER took that long to exit the stadium :teeth:

The lowest estimate you've seen ANYWHERE?

The New York Times this morning estimated at least 120,000 but possibly thousands more.
 
When was the last time MA sent a Republican senator to Washington? Who did Kerry replace? Paul Tsongas, a Democrat. All of MA's representatives in Washington are Democrats. Could it be that the people of MA voted along party lines? Could it be that this is why Kerry was re-elected this many times. Highly possible.
 
It was also reported this morning that the crowd, of the estimated 160,000 protesters, was the largest protest crowd of ANY national convention in the history of this country. :Pinkbounc So ... it was a history making protest, it was a "big deal".

The protest yesterday had nothing to do with wanting to relive the 60's :rolleyes:, it had to do with living in the year 2004 and being represented by an administration we/they don't want to be represented by. If it's forced upon us again by Bush being freely elected into office, there is nothing we can do about it except for something like what happened yesterday ... stand up and say we don't like it. As the protesters said yesterday, "This is what Democracy looks like." :Pinkbounc :bounce: If Kerry is voted into office and does anything like this administration has, I hope that the same thing happens ... that the people let their voices be heard!

And while some may think that demonstrations of the 60's negatively affected the campaigns then, or the country then, please tell that to the people who were part of the Civil Rights Movement and the Women's Rights Movement, that is if you believe in those movements. People in this country didn't just protest AGAINST the American military involvement in Vietnam and against the Johnson and Nixon administrations, they protested FOR the people of the this country. And THAT is what's happening again. People yesterday weren't just protesting AGAINST the Bush administration and the American military involvement in Iraq, but they were protesting FOR the people of this country.

More than anything, I love the message that the numbers of the crowd sent across this country and around the world. That is, while Bush is the incumbent, and he may be re-elected, that doesn't mean that ALL the people of the USA like it or want it that way.

But I guess since I like the message it sent to other countries, I'll be labeled a terrorist sympathizer, unpatriotic, unAmerican, a US military troop killer, and any number of things, not to exclude a commie. :crazy: :teeth: But that's alright, I can be labeled that, it doesn't make it true. princess:
 
Originally posted by bsnyder
The lowest estimate you've seen ANYWHERE?

The New York Times this morning estimated at least 120,000 but possibly thousands more.
Lol....You must be looking at a different New York Times, then :rolleyes:

-------------
Vast Anti-Bush Rally Greets Republicans in New York
By ROBERT D. McFADDEN

Published: August 30, 2004

roaring two-mile river of demonstrators surged through the canyons of Manhattan yesterday in the city's largest political protest in decades, a raucous but peaceful spectacle that pilloried George W. Bush and demanded regime change in Washington.

On a sweltering August Sunday, the huge throng of protesters marched past Madison Square Garden, the site of the Republican National Convention opening today, and denounced President Bush as a misfit who had plunged America into war and runaway debt, undermined civil and constitutional rights, lied to the people, despoiled the environment and used the presidency to benefit corporations and millionaires.

The protest organizer, United for Peace and Justice, estimated the crowd at 500,000, rivaling a 1982 antinuclear rally in Central Park, and double the number it had predicted. It was, at best, a rough estimate. The Police Department, as is customary, offered no official estimate, but one officer in touch with the police command center at Madison Square Garden agreed that the crowd appeared to be close to a half-million.

*snip*


Vast Protests Greet GOP
 
I was indeed looking at a different article in the NYTimes. This one:

http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/national/AP-CVN-Convention-Protests.html?hp

Perhaps I'm a little discerning when I read news articles. Your article clearly states that the 500,000 estimate was that of the protest organizer. Forgive me, but I'm just a little skeptical of their accuracy. :teeth:

Again, I'm not making my observation based on the motivations of the protestors or their obvious right to protest anything they want. Have at it.

I'm making political observations on what's the best campaign strategy for the Democrats. Here's a noted left-leaning Washington Post columnist who agrees that the Kerry campaign had better quickly give the electorate a message that's a little more weighty than "Anybody But Bush".


Is 'Not George Bush' Enough?

By William Raspberry
Monday, August 30, 2004; Page A23

John Kerry is not George W. Bush -- and for a lot of us, that's reason enough to vote for Kerry come November. But reason enough for a majority of voters? I doubt it.

The problems with Bush are (for those who would vote for virtually anyone else) obvious and important. He has tilted the economy toward the rich and away from the middle class. He is heavily influenced by "neocons" whose foreign-policy ideas are well outside the American mainstream -- and, because he came to office innocent of foreign-policy experience or interest, he has no personal core to which to return.

Most of all, though, is the fact that he led America into a quite unnecessary war in Iraq -- and into the resultant bloody mess there now. In the name of fighting terrorism, he has greatly increased its appeal in the Arab world. He seems, moreover, likely -- through misstep and inadvertence -- to play into the Holy War hopes of certain Islamic fanatics, including Osama bin Laden.

But if Bush is frightening -- in part because he so dogmatically believes what he believes -- Kerry is frustrating and infuriating because he seems not to believe much of anything worth risking offense.

The Republican charge against Kerry is that he flip-flops -- voting, for instance, to authorize the president to go to war against Iraq, then criticizing him for doing so. That charge is easily answered: To stay with your old conclusion long after the basis for it has been exploded is not consistency but madness.

No, what infuriates about Kerry is his wish to be all things to all people -- or, at any rate, not to give them any basis for attacking him. He has, as far as I can tell, staked out a single position that might be called controversial: He would repeal the tax cuts for the rich.

But nearly everything else he says or does seems calculated to avoid clear-cut disagreement with people on either side of any issue. Thus he "voted for [the $87 billion supplemental military budget] before I voted against it." Thus he differs with the president on what he would do to extricate us from Iraq, but has offered no discernible policy. Thus he parses every statement to the point where even he must wonder what he said. Thus he (to return to his Vietnam War protest days) didn't return his "medals," but only the "ribbons" that represent them.

And I don't know what to make of the controversy over his wartime heroism and the Swift boat incident, except to say that the details of his indisputably valiant war service more than 30 years ago shouldn't be a matter of significance in this election.

But little things become big issues for Kerry because he refuses to stake out positions on the big things. Maybe, with the polls showing him in a virtual dead heat with Bush, he doesn't want to frighten the "undecideds." Well, if I were undecided (and, frankly, I would be if Kerry were pitted against Bush I instead of his scary son) I'd find Kerry's super-carefulness off-putting.

Is Kerry acting on advice of his political advisers, or does he really have no important and articulable policy differences with the man he would replace? If the former, it strikes me as questionable advice; if the latter, it suggests a president who would be weak on leadership.

A lot of us will vote for him because he's not W. But, as I say, it may not be enough.
 
Originally posted by bsnyder
I was indeed looking at a different article in the NYTimes. This one:

http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/national/AP-CVN-Convention-Protests.html?hp

Perhaps I'm a little discerning when I read news articles. Your article clearly states that the 500,000 estimate was that of the protest organizer. Forgive me, but I'm just a little skeptical of their accuracy. :teeth:

For someone that likes to brag about their reading comprehension, I think you may want to work on it a bit :rotfl:

"...The protest organizer, United for Peace and Justice, estimated the crowd at 500,000, rivaling a 1982 antinuclear rally in Central Park, and double the number it had predicted. It was, at best, a rough estimate. The Police Department, as is customary, offered no official estimate, but one officer in touch with the police command center at Madison Square Garden agreed that the crowd appeared to be close to a half-million.

Yep...there were just a FEW people there :rotfl:
30protest_slide01.jpg
capt.nygb10408291817.cvn_protests_nygb104.jpg
 
Originally posted by peachgirl
The Republican strategy is to portray Kerry as having accomplished very little in his Senate career simply because his focus wasn't on sponsoring bills and cutting deals.
It appears to be John Kerry's strategy as well. I don't know if you watched any of the Democratic Convention or not, but if that was one's first introduction to Kerry, the message you got was: "I was a war hero in Vietnam, and now I'm running for President." No one made any mention all week long of his 22-plus years in politics, including Kerry himself. If he wants to counter the Republican's claim that he's been a do-nothing politician, he might want to start talking about his record. JMHO
 
Originally posted by Fizban257
It appears to be John Kerry's strategy as well. I don't know if you watched any of the Democratic Convention or not, but if that was one's first introduction to Kerry, the message you got was: "I was a war hero in Vietnam, and now I'm running for President." No one made any mention all week long of his 22-plus years in politics, including Kerry himself. If he wants to counter the Republican's claim that he's been a do-nothing politician, he might want to start talking about his record. JMHO
The reason for the posturing at the convention (though he has NEVER said the words "I'm a war hero", to my knowledge) was that the Republicans first strategy was to try to portray him as someone who could not be commander in chief. It was simply to show strength in the face of moronic accusations of weakness, that's all.

Yes, Kerry is proud of having served his country honorably...and he has every right to be. But you're right in one thing, at least...I REALLY wish we could start focusing on the real issues. If the voting public ever gets away from the sensationalism and looks at Bush's job performance, there's not a doubt in my mind that Kerry will win in a landslide.
 
So we're relying on the estimate of ONE unnamed polite officer?

Who said it was a few people? Not I.
 












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