Points - weekday vs. weekend?

[Snurk71]

I thought about posting this question on the 2011 points thread, but didn't want it to get lost there. And the questions isn't really about 2011 - it's more of a general question as a new DVCer. So I hope a mod doesn't shut me down here and shift me there.

So there has been a shift from Sun-Thurs being a lot cheaper point nights than Fri-Sat. My question is why did there used to be such a point discrepancy between the two. I would assume the goal is to have as many room nights booked as possible, and with the weekends almost being a penalty point-wise - how were the resorts not ghost towns on the weekends? Did they have higher weekend nights because they thought a lot of DVCers would take multiple long weekend trips and leave the resort empty during the week? So to drive traffic during the week they made Sun-Thurs more attractive?

For whatever reason they originally had the large point spread, I assume it didn't drive the effect they wanted and that's why they're changing things recently. Did it instead drive too many nights away from the weekends, where DVCers either did short Sun-Thurs trips or did the splits where they'd stay in a Value for cash on the weekend and DVC during the week?

Just curious on some of the management thought behind the original decision and what's driving the current shift to more even point nights?

Thanks

 

[spiceycat]

- how were the resorts not ghost towns on the weekends? Did they have higher weekend nights because they thought a lot of DVCers would take multiple long weekend trips and leave the resort empty during the week? So to drive traffic during the week they made Sun-Thurs more attractive?

Did it instead drive too many nights away from the weekends, where DVCers either did short Sun-Thurs trips or did the splits where they'd stay in a Value for cash on the weekend and DVC during the week?

when asked the guide that question got told it was because of the Floridians who DVC though would immediately book all the weekend if the points were the same.

in the early days Florida owners were the biggest part of DVC.


times change - now think it is Northeastern. a bit too far to come for weekend stays.

I was not the only DVC who booked at Pop for even DVC events if they were on the weekend- so the change should have happened a while ago.

by the way did not tell dvc that I was booked at Pop fully expected to have to go and pick up stuff - so was very surprised that my stuff was at the desk when checked in.

disney kepts up with you even when you don't stay in a DVC resort.

 

[kimberh]

Well, I know that we stayed longer than 5 week days, but We would check out and go to Universal and I know from these boards, I am not the only ones that did this. Could stay two nights at Universal for one nights worth of weekend points. Now, when I brought my daughters family, we bite the bullet and booked a two bedroom for weekends and it just about killed me to do it. Have done this 3 times. I am glad there has been some adjustment. It was way out of line.

 

[Sandisw]

I have read that they wanted to be sure that there wasn't an imbalance in demand between those that could use DVC for short trips and those that could not.

But, what seems to have happened, is that people started to buy only the number of points to stay Sun - Thurs, and therefore, tipped the balance completely the other way.

This should even things out a bit more in that people won't necessarily avoid the weekends as it is only costing a bit more and therefore, fill up the rooms. For example, two weekend nights for me is now only 14 points more, than two weekday stays.

 

[cvjw]

I am happy with the new changes. I am new to DVC and could not understand why the weekend nights were so many more points than the week day nights. It seemed as if Disney wanted people to only use their points for weekday stays, and penalized you for wanting to use your points on a weekend. We live 7 hours away from Disney, and have to travel/stay on the weekends. We can't really drive down for a couple of days. We normally drive down on a Friday or Saturday, and drive home the next Sunday (8 or 9 nights). We were forced to pay the high points for those extra weekend nights. We have thought about staying somewhere else on the weekend, but it's alot of trouble to move, and after staying in a 2 bedroom villa with 4 people, we aren't interested in cramming into a regular hotel room.

 

[chalee94]

I would assume the goal is to have as many room nights booked as possible, and with the weekends almost being a penalty point-wise - how were the resorts not ghost towns on the weekends?

in the olden days, the minimum pt requirement was around 230 pts. people were more used to the timeshare model of 7 night stays. so DVC offered flexibility of pts but most buyers bought a lot of pts and planned to stay at least a whole week.

Did they have higher weekend nights because they thought a lot of DVCers would take multiple long weekend trips and leave the resort empty during the week? So to drive traffic during the week they made Sun-Thurs more attractive?

yes. they were initially afraid that locals/FL residents would buy DVC primarily for weekend stays, leaving a lot of sun-thursday availability.

Did it instead drive too many nights away from the weekends, where DVCers either did short Sun-Thurs trips or did the splits where they'd stay in a Value for cash on the weekend and DVC during the week?

as DVC changed, people started buying 100 pt add-on/resale contracts...and 50 pt add-on/resale contracts and 25 pt add-on/resale contracts...just enough for access to sun-thursday stays.

people started hearing you could rent pts for sun-thursday stays onsite for less than $100 per night with a kitchenette and so renting became more popular.

so yes, weekends meant that DVC resorts turned into a ghost town.

the way timeshares work:

if 5 weeknights used to cost roughly the same as 2 weekend nights, then lets say OKW had 100 owners...each with enough pts to book 5 weeknights or 2 weekend nights per year...for 50 weeks of ownership total. for purposes of argument, let's say they all wanted to stay weeknights to save on pts...so 50 owners are on the ball and book up the 250 weeknights at the 11 month window. the other 50 owners can either pay through the nose for weekends - which they didn't originally want - or else they are locked out and can't use their pts...which makes them want to sell.

naturally, it's not that extreme to frustrate half the membership...but apparently it's getting bad enough that a significant percentage can't find availability for sun-thursday nights...so DVC has to make a change to make sure the resorts are full.

 

[dianeschlicht]

I would assume the goal is to have as many room nights booked as possible, and with the weekends almost being a penalty point-wise - how were the resorts not ghost towns on the weekends?

in the olden days, the minimum pt requirement was around 230 pts. people were more used to the timeshare model of 7 night stays. so DVC offered flexibility of pts but most buyers bought a lot of pts and planned to stay at least a whole week.

Did they have higher weekend nights because they thought a lot of DVCers would take multiple long weekend trips and leave the resort empty during the week? So to drive traffic during the week they made Sun-Thurs more attractive?

yes. they were initially afraid that locals/FL residents would buy DVC primarily for weekend stays, leaving a lot of sun-thursday availability.

Did it instead drive too many nights away from the weekends, where DVCers either did short Sun-Thurs trips or did the splits where they'd stay in a Value for cash on the weekend and DVC during the week?

as DVC changed, people started buying 100 pt add-on contracts...and 50 pt add-on contracts and 25 pt add-on contracts...just enough for access to sun-thursday stays.

people started hearing you could rent pts for sun-thursday stays onsite for less than $100 per night with a kitchenette and so renting became more popular.

so yes, weekends meant that DVC resorts turned into a ghost town.

the way timeshares work:

if 5 weeknights used to cost roughly the same as 2 weekend nights, then lets say OKW had 100 owners...each with enough to book 5 weeknights or 2 weekend nights per year...for 50 weeks of ownership total. for purposes of argument, let's say they all wanted to stay weeknights to save on pts...so 50 owners are on the ball and book up the 250 weeknights at the 11 month window. the other 50 owners can either pay through the nose for weekends - which they didn't originally want - or else they are locked out and can't use their pts...which makes them want to sell.

naturally, it's not that extreme to frustrate half the membership...but apparently it's getting bad enough that a significant percentage can't find availability for sun-thursday nights...so DVC has to make a change to make sure the resorts are full.

Charles, that was an excellent post! I agree with all of it!

 

[Chuck S]

As this is really a question about earlier and original point charts, this thread is fine. But a general reminder that we are limiting any 2011 re-allocation discussion to this thread.

Thanks.

 

[BEASLYBOO]

I'm a Floridian, guilty as charged! I usually book a Mon check in, and a Fri check out, the privileges of living close by, besides the parks are crowded on the week-ends. Other than family reunions every 3 years when I book one full week, I don't stay week-ends. This Feb we're staying Thu-Mon which is unusual for me but I was having Disney withdrawls and I'm tired of going in Aug. when it's stinking hot.

I didn't buy with a particular accomodation or vacation time span in mind, I realize it's much harder/expensive for people who have to fly, rent cars etc. I don't particularly like the point reallocation but I can understand it and I enjoyed the low point structure while it lasted.

 

[DebbieB]

I think certain times of the year might be more out of balance favoring weekends. For example, during the flower & garden festival or food & wine festival people who live closer might come in for a long weekend. Same with the Christmas activities, weekends in December are usually crowded. Disney itself has recognized this and have started charging more for weekend dates when booking cash.

 

[tjkraz]

If memory serves, the last round of changes to the point charts (prior to 2010) went into effect in 1996. I've heard those changes actually RAISED the weekend points a bit from the initial calculations.

This change was made when Old Key West was the only resort. The BoardWalk, HHI and Vero didn't open until later in 1996.

So, at one time there probably was good reason for the old weekday/weekend disparity. Of course back then the minimum purchase was higher, member booking trends were different and there was only one DVC resort.

 

[spiceycat]

no Tim it was a great time for Sun-fri stays even then.

they took from adventure and gave it to summer/spring break.

hey back then you could stay 5 days at OKW for early Dec for 35 points.

oh well should be happy I enjoyed it then

 

[RobDoc]

If memory serves, the last round of changes to the point charts (prior to 2010) went into effect in 1996. I've heard those changes actually RAISED the weekend points a bit from the initial calculations.

This change was made when Old Key West was the only resort. The BoardWalk, HHI and Vero didn't open until later in 1996.

So, at one time there probably was good reason for the old weekday/weekend disparity. Of course back then the minimum purchase was higher, member booking trends were different and there was only one DVC resort.

Vero opened October 1, 1995 - but had no changes with the 1996 reallocation (the '96 point charts were published in September, 1994). HH opened in March, 1995 and BWV opened in July, 1996. The 1996 reallocated point charts remained unchanged until this month.

Here is the DVC point chart for OKW from 1991 - 1995. The 1996 point chart was valid thru 2009 - in spite of DVC having had opportunity to make changes at least when each subsequent resort was opened. The greatest changes in 1996 were for Adventure Season, where all room types increased. All other seasons saw little or no change on weekdays, but larger decreases on weekends for all room types.

Points listed are for Studio, 1BR, 2BR, GV (weekday/weekend) respectively from 1991 thru 1995 for OKW:

Adventure Season: 7/17 , 14/35 , 19/47 , 31/77

Choice Season: 8/21 , 17/42 , 23/57 , 37/92

Dream Season: 10/25 , 20/50 , 27/67 , 45/112

Magic Season: 11/28 , 23/57 , 31/77 , 52/130

Premier Season: 15/38 , 31/77 , 42/105 , 68/170

1996 - 2009 for OKW:

Adventure: 8/20 , 16/40 , 22/54 , 36/88

Choice: 8/21 , 18/41 , 24/56 , 38/91

Dream: 10/24 , 20/48 , 27/64 , 45/107

Magic: 11/27 , 22/54 , 30/73 , 51/123

Premier: 15/36 , 30/73 , 41/100 , 66/162

 

[tjkraz]

Points listed are for Studio, 1BR, 2BR, GV (weekday/weekend) respectively from 1991 thru 1995 for OKW:

Adventure Season: 7/17 , 14/35 , 19/47 , 31/77

Choice Season: 8/21 , 17/42 , 23/57 , 37/92

Dream Season: 10/25 , 20/50 , 27/67 , 45/112

Magic Season: 11/28 , 23/57 , 31/77 , 52/130

Premier Season: 15/38 , 31/77 , 42/105 , 68/170

1996 - 2009 for OKW:

Adventure: 8/20 , 16/40 , 22/54 , 36/88

Choice: 8/21 , 18/41 , 24/56 , 38/91

Dream: 10/24 , 20/48 , 27/64 , 45/107

Magic: 11/27 , 22/54 , 30/73 , 51/123

Premier: 15/36 , 30/73 , 41/100 , 66/162

Thanks for the numbers, Doc. I'll have to bookmark this.

Perhaps what I should have said was simply that DVC did reallocate back in 1996, so it stands to reason that the numbers published back then WERE truly representative of demand.

What they failed to do was to continue making any real adjustments to that weekday/weekend balance as new resorts came on line and buying trends began to tip the scale in another direction.

 

[RobDoc]

Thanks for the numbers, Doc. I'll have to bookmark this.

Perhaps what I should have said was simply that DVC did reallocate back in 1996, so it stands to reason that the numbers published back then WERE truly representative of demand.

What they failed to do was to continue making any real adjustments to that weekday/weekend balance as new resorts came on line and buying trends began to tip the scale in another direction.

I agree. DVC has had ample opportunity to tweak the point charts as each new resort came online since 1996. I can't accept that the numbers changed radiaclly in 2009 requiring the 2010 and now, 2001 changes. I'm glad they have finally addressed the issue, but hope that in the future they will not be so gun-shy about pulling the trigger to make the necessary changes on an as-needed basis. It will both be more believeable and more accepted by members than the way they have handled reallocation th epast two years.

Hopefully, we will also get back to a more responsible date to receive the new point charts. For YEARS the new charts were released (mailed to members) in September/October each year. The past two years they were not even posted on the member site until January and not released in published form until months later. There are thousands of members who do not access the member site on a regular basis and who are woefully misinformed as a result. I expect more from DVC.

 

[dismedvc]

Hopefully, we will also get back to a more responsible date to receive the new point charts. For YEARS the new charts were released (mailed to members) in September/October each year. The past two years they were not even posted on the member site until January and not released in published form until months later. There are thousands of members who do not access the member site on a regular basis and who are woefully misinformed as a result. I expect more from DVC.

Also, If you want to bank points for a big trip early in the following year that uses more than one years worth of points, there is no way to know how many points you need to bank until you know that following year's points chart. However, if they continue to come out in January and you have a February, March, or April use year, your banking deadline has already passed by the time the points charts come out. That seems really unfair to members with those use years.

I think the point charts need to be out before September 30, which is the banking deadline for February use years.

With regard to the OP's question, we joined in 1999, and have almost never used points for a Friday or Saturday night stay. Now we probably will, and I am not at all upset with the points chart changes.