Point Charts

[EM Lawrence]

Can someone explain to me what lockoff premiums are and how they affect the point charts at resorts? I'm a potential DVC buyer who is keeping a close eye on resale prices right now. I read somewhere, in my research, that there were concerns that Rivera's point chart had too many lockoff premium points in it and that this could negatively affect owners. Forgive me if I am phrasing that incorrectly. I did not understand what that meant.

We did a DVC tour in Feb, and I would consider purchasing RR direct if the incentives are good enough AND if the resale restrictions are lifted. I'm not holding my breath on that second part. But I do want to try to understand point charts and how they affect owners better. Thanks in advance.

 

[Sandisw]

The lock off premium is the extra points you get when a 2 bedroom is booked as a 1 bedroom and a studio, instead of a 2 bedroom.

From my understanding, The total number of points for a resort is based on the total number of 2 bedrooms that can be booked.

 

[TraderSamWDW]

it is a way to free up inventory for DVC to rent for cash.

Example:
2 Bed room is 40 points, but a one bedroom is 30 and a studio is 15 - thats 5 points that are used to rent that room that can now not be used elsewhere. Do that for 8 2 bedrooms over the course of a week, you now have an extra 2 bedroom that the owners wont have points to rent for themselves, and DVC can rent it.

With a resort that big i have a hard time seeing it being an issue at 11 months, but I also do not see them lifting the resale restriction.

 

[DebbieB]

Example - June 1 2020 standard:
Studio 13
1bedroom 29
2 bedroom 34

If studio and 1bedroom were reserved separately it would be 42 points. So 8 more points.

When they balance the chart, they count the lockoffs as 2 bedrooms. They can do whatever they want with the separate studio and 1 bedroom points, taking advantage of those extra points.

 

[tellingson]

Couple things to remember:
1. There are 2 types of 2-bedrooms (lock-off, and regular)
1. Lock-off 2-bedrooms are a combination of studio + 1 bedroom.

With respect to the lockoff premium look at the following example:

Saratoga Springs 2020 Point Chart during Adventure Season.
Sun - Thurs - Studio (Standard) - 11 points per night
Sun - Thurs - 1 Bedroom (Standard) - 22 points per night
Sun - Thurs - 2 Bedroom (Standard) - 30 points per night

If DVC has bookings for a Studio and a 1 Bedroom that equals 33 points per night.
Booking just the 2-bedroom is 30 points per night.
33 vs 30 for the exact same room.
The difference is the lockoff premium.

Based on what Sandisw said, resorts have point totals based on the total number of 2 bedrooms that can be book. (lockoff + normal)

Let's take the example of above and increase it to 100 2-bedroom lock-offs. So now we have 30 points per night x 100 rooms x 365 (nights) = 109,500 total points.

109,500 represents full capacity with people booking the 2-bedrooms ONLY as 2-bedrooms and none as studios or 1-bedrooms.

Let's take the other extreme and say that people only book studios and 1-bedrooms. If we take the 109,500 points / 365 (nights) / 100 rooms / 33 points per night = .909 or 90.9% occupancy
That means that Disney has 9.1% of the rooms available and all of the members have used all of their points. They can use those 9% of rooms however they want (typically for cash bookings)

 

[tellingson]

There are limits to the premium. I think the premium has to be within 20% of the 2-bedroom point cost. So if I had a 2-bedroom at 40, the most that studio + 1 bedroom could cost is 48 points.

 

[EM Lawrence]

Thanks for the explanation. That makes sense. So it sounds like it is to the advantage of Disney if people book studios and 1 Br, as opposed to people renting 2 br. If enough people rent studios and 1 Br, then Disney gets an advantage by having rooms available to rent for cash. Does that sum it up accurately?

Is it possible for Disney to set the points and room configurations up in a way that exploits this at the expense of owners? I think that was the implication of the post I read, and I am genuinely curious. When I was at WDW in Dec, we rented a studio at BWV as a cash reservation. (We loved BWV by the way!) I struck up a conversation with a couple that owned there and they brought up that they thought Riviera had too many points in the charts to be a good purchase. That did not make sense to me at the time, and I did not have an opportunity to ask what they meant, because the conversation was brief.

 

[Matty B13]

Is it possible for Disney to set the points and room configurations up in a way that exploits this at the expense of owners? I think that was the implication of the post I read, and I am genuinely curious. When I was at WDW in Dec, we rented a studio at BWV as a cash reservation. (We loved BWV by the way!) I struck up a conversation with a couple that owned there and they brought up that they thought Riviera had too many points in the charts to be a good purchase. That did not make sense to me at the time, and I did not have an opportunity to ask what they meant, because the conversation was brief.

The couple was talking about how high the points per night at Riviera compared to say Boadwalk or Beach Club, not the lock-off premium. If you look at all the point charts for all the resorts, you will see that Riviera has rooms that cost almost as many points as Grand Floridian (which have the highest point charts) and above Bay Lake Tower and all the other resorts.

 

[EM Lawrence]

The couple was talking about how high the points per night at Riviera compared to say Boadwalk or Beach Club, not the lock-off premium. If you look at all the point charts for all the resorts, you will see that Riviera has rooms that cost almost as many points as Grand Floridian (which have the highest point charts) and above Bay Lake Tower and all the other resorts.

Thanks!

 

[Matty B13]

I believe that the point charts for each resort can be found here on Disboards, or a simple google search will produce them as well. This will give you an idea of the number of points you will need for a reservation, and make sure to look at the dates you will be traveling in, since the charts change depending on the date.

 

[EM Lawrence]

Yes, thank you. I’ve been studying the point charts pretty intently at the resorts we are most interested in: PVB, OKW, BWV, AKV. So far BWV and OKW seem to have the best point charts. DH really wants Poly, so I’m thinking about trying to get enough points at Poly to stay there or book a 1 BR elsewhere to give us flexibility. But RR is still not off the table completely depending on if good incentives are offered. I was just worried there was something about the point chart at RR that I was missing. And those darn resale restrictions!

 

[KAT4DISNEY]

Example - June 1 2020 standard:
Studio 13
1bedroom 29
2 bedroom 34

If studio and 1bedroom were reserved separately it would be 42 points. So 8 more points.

When they balance the chart, they count the lockoffs as 2 bedrooms. They can do whatever they want with the separate studio and 1 bedroom points, taking advantage of those extra points.

Unless the resort has dedicated studios and 1BR's. If it's all lock-offs then it opens up the opportunity for them.

 

[KAT4DISNEY]

Thanks for the explanation. That makes sense. So it sounds like it is to the advantage of Disney if people book studios and 1 Br, as opposed to people renting 2 br. If enough people rent studios and 1 Br, then Disney gets an advantage by having rooms available to rent for cash. Does that sum it up accurately?

Is it possible for Disney to set the points and room configurations up in a way that exploits this at the expense of owners? I think that was the implication of the post I read, and I am genuinely curious. When I was at WDW in Dec, we rented a studio at BWV as a cash reservation. (We loved BWV by the way!) I struck up a conversation with a couple that owned there and they brought up that they thought Riviera had too many points in the charts to be a good purchase. That did not make sense to me at the time, and I did not have an opportunity to ask what they meant, because the conversation was brief.

I agree the couple was referencing "point creep". Increasing the point requirements in the newest resorts gives a quick increase to profits for DVD but giving them more points to sell for each villa. And costs owners more up front. You then have to consider the MF's on those points vs MF's at the lower point resorts to see the full cost of the room since MF's aren't the same for every resort either.

 

[EM Lawrence]

Unless the resort has dedicated studios and 1BR's. If it's all lock-offs then it opens up the opportunity for them.

Which resorts have all lock-offs vs. all dedicated studios and 1 BR?

 

[KAT4DISNEY]

Which resorts have all lock-offs vs. all dedicated studios and 1 BR?

Off the top of my head at WDW - SSR, VGF, PVB, BLT, and OKW are only lockoff to make up studios and 1BR's. All the other resorts have both lock-off and dedicated studios and 1BR's. It used to be that at BWV the dedicated studios had a deacon's bench that small children could sleep on - it wasn't in the lock-off studios there. But the bench was removed in the last refurb.

As owners learned more about the lock-off premium with the proposed 2020 point charts I think it's unlikely that DVC would single out resorts for increases though even though they don't have quite the same restrictions imposed on them as the resorts with dedicated studios and 1BR's.