Please help - how to make a white background look white?!

[Merrywheather]

I just got a beginner 2-monolight/softbox kit and a white muslin background. However, I am having trouble getting the white background to look pure white. In addition to the 2 monolights/softboxes, I am also using 2 clamp lights with 75-watt reveal light bulbs to light the background. The background is still coming out light gray some of the time.

I really need to play around with my set-up some more, but I had to send one of the monolights back to B&H because one of the screws was broken on arrival (their customer service has been excellent.) It should arrive on Monday.

Do any of you lighting gurus have any suggestions?

Also, any suggestions on where to position the lights?

Of course, today I just went out and bought a black muslin sheet - that's my easy way of solving this problem .

Thanks in advance!

PS - here is the kit I bought, if this helps http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/459067-REG/Impact_VSD160_2KIII_VSD160_Two_Monolight_Softbox.html

 

[MarkBarbieri]

From your camera's point of view, the difference between black, gray, and white is just a question of how much light is shining.

You can make your background look white by increasing your exposure. Of course, this will probably make your subject too bright.

A better option is to put more light on your background. Point a light at the background and make it about 1.5 to 2 stops brighter than your subject. For best results, make it two lights - one on either side. If you just use one on one side, you can sometimes see texture in the background.

Shining a bright light on the background can create a different problem - spill light. Make sure that your subject isn't too close to the background or the light reflecting off of it will mess up the lighting on your subject. Also, I like to use barndoors to make sure that light from the background lights don't directly hit my subject.

Black, if you don't want it to be grey, has the opposite problem. With black, you have to be careful not to get too much light on it. You need to either move your subject even further from your background or use side lighting techniques.

I really like the look of a colored light (use a gel) shot through a grid (reduces the spread of the light) on a black background. It gives a splash of color that can be used to accent the subject.

 

[jfinke]

Have you looked here?

http://strobist.blogspot.com/2006/03/lighting-101.html

 

[boBQuincy]

[Yoda] Learn the Zone System, you must! [/Yoda]

Our camera's meters are set to make things Zone V (middle gray), pure white (with texture) is Zone IX, white (no texture) is Zone X. What this means is once we get a reading of the white paper (and nothing else in the frame) we increase the exposure by 4 or 5 stops, depending on if we still want texture in the white paper or not.

If the exposure of the other objects is not what we want then we must adjust the light falling on them. Anyway, the Zone System is the best way to determine all this. There are many sources on this but one of the best is still the original, Ansel Adams "The Negative".

 

[Merrywheather]

Thanks all for your replies!

Mark - I think I may not be shining enough light on my background - the lighting on the actual subjects seems to be OK. I don't have any shadows on the background, but did initially have them on the opposite side of the subjects' faces. I figured out that using a reflector helps to bounce the light back to eliminate them. Thank goodness for aluminum foil and a big piece of foam board!! Maybe I need to use one of the softboxes for fill flash? I am really a novice at this, but I find it interesting...ya can't learn if ya don't try, right? At least that's what I keep telling myself!

jfinke - yeah, I have been reading there a lot...That site has been helping me decifer everything!

Bob- I don't think I'm in the zone (pun intended)! Seriously, after reading your post, I looked on wikipedia, and I think it is going to take a few re-reads to get it. I understand your simplified post of the concept, so maybe it will all sink in after a while. Looks like I should get another book! Strong with the flash I am not!

 

[MarkBarbieri]

I just re-read your post and I have a question.

n addition to the 2 monolights/softboxes, I am also using 2 clamp lights with 75-watt reveal light bulbs to light the background.

Are those reveal lights strobes? You can't really mix strobes and regular lights. The strobes will be so much brighter that the regular lights will have very little effect.

 

[Merrywheather]

Yeah - they are definitely NOT strobes! I tried again this morning, and added some extra shop lights from my husband's workbench. To be honest, they didn't really make a difference...this is the background coloring that I've been getting all along:

and

I can't wrangle the kids any more...they are sick of being my guinea pigs!!

 

[MarkBarbieri]

Are your monolights strobes (do they flash)? If so, I recommend that you not mix them with non-strobe lights. Strobes get very bright for just a moment and will drown out other lighting.

It's hard to do a white background with few lights. As I described above, you want to dedicate two (one in a pinch) lights for the background itself. That takes lights away from your subject lighting. It's true that you can light your subject with one main and a reflector, but it is so much easier to have extra lights.

Shooting with a non-white background is much easier with a limited number of lights.

 

[boBQuincy]

I can't wrangle the kids any more...they are sick of being my guinea pigs!!

But they are *so* cute!

 

[Merrywheather]

Sorry - I was being very confusing. The monolights are strobes, but the lights that I was using to light my background are not. Looks like more strobes are another item to add to the ever-growing list!

Thanks for your help- I really appreciate it!
Heather

 

[jfinke]

Another site with a lot of information:
http://www.zarias.com/?cat=8

 

[MarkBarbieri]

Sorry - I was being very confusing. The monolights are strobes, but the lights that I was using to light my background are not. Looks like more strobes are another item to add to the ever-growing list!

Thanks for your help- I really appreciate it!
Heather

I swap with a friend for jobs like this. In fact, he came by yesterday to pick up a couple of mine for this very thing.

 

[Merrywheather]

Another site with a lot of information:
http://www.zarias.com/?cat=8

Thanks - I just spent the last 2 hours reading this site - it is great! I like how he provides pictures of the studio set-up. I can see that my background is really not light enough.

I swap with a friend for jobs like this. In fact, he came by yesterday to pick up a couple of mine for this very thing.

Hmmm...that's a thought...I have a 580EXII that I could use to light the background, as long as it could still function as the master...my dad shoots Nikon...I don't know that I could use his speedlight as a wireless slave for my 580EXII, though. I wonder if that is possible? I probably am not making any sense at this point . I'm even confusing myself!

 

[YesDear]

This thread raises a reasonable question. Who has what strobes and what do they like or dislike about them?

 

[jfinke]

Hmmm...that's a thought...I have a 580EXII that I could use to light the background, as long as it could still function as the master...my dad shoots Nikon...I don't know that I could use his speedlight as a wireless slave for my 580EXII, though. I wonder if that is possible? I probably am not making any sense at this point . I'm even confusing myself!

I believe you would have to use some type of third party system to get your 580exII off of camera.

Either a PC cable, or wireless, or optical.

 

[GrillMouster]

In high-key work, the background light is often at least one stop brighter than the main light, so you need more light hitting the background than is hitting your subject. It's not uncommon to aim multiple strobes at the background to get even illumination on the background. Have you considered using one of the monolights on the background and pairing the other monolight with a reflector for the subject (a piece of cheap foamboard will work as a reflector). Regarding the portable flash units, you can buy a cheap optical slave device, so the 580ex II will go when the monolights do. Nikon SB800 and SB900 includes an optical slave mode in addition to their infared wireless mode. Some monolights also have a built-in optical slave trigger, so you could do the reverse: use the 580exII to trigger the monolights. You have all sorts of lighting options, just think creatively. By the way, I prefer seamless paper over muslin for even white because the wrinkles and ripples of fabric create shadows.

 

[extreme8]

You've already gotten some great advice here.
Following the setups you saw at Zack Arias would serve you well. That's the way I've always lit my white background shots but I still picked up a few tips from him.
Bottom line is that it takes a fair amount of light to get it done. If you are persistent I'm sure you'll get some acceptable shots with the two Impact strobes and a speedlight or two (set them in slave mode/manual power settings and use 'em just like your new Impacts).

This is a shot I took just yesterday against white seamless using 3 AB800's.
There were two strobes reflecting off of V-Banks onto the background, and one in a med Softbox over the camera pointed down with a white reflector underneath in a clamshell setup.
Background was 1.3 stops over the subject lighting.

This shot could have been done with two monolights and a speedlight with no problem.

 

[Merrywheather]

A big "thank you" to all of you...I wish the UPS man would hurry up with my replacement monolight. I can't wait to experiment... I'm sure I can make it work somehow. Thanks for your wealth of information and ideas