Photography at Disney World new observations

OK. Dog with a bone here. One of the issues discussed earlier was about prints versus "always in the cloud."

I am honestly really curious. Does anyone have any decent research on the long-term viability of cloud storage? As in extrapolated out to the multi-decade level? I have several magnetic storage mediums sitting around that I can no longer access (3420, Travan, Zip). Yes, there is techonolgy somewhere to read them but it isn't ubiquitously available. Will the cloud be different? Yeah, I got a load of stuff out there too so am concerned.

Short story long: Just watched this msytery. It took over 70 years to solve. All based on observations that came down to one print (from Joe Rosenthal's SpeedGraphic) compared to the iconic Iwo flag raising shot (also Joe's). I'm trying to picture the availability of "all my shots in the cloud" as being something that will even exist in 2086 as other than a memory and coming up bupkis.

50 years from now my kids will be able to show their grandchildren shots of their first visit to WDW in the 90's. I'm not so sure I can make that claim about the pics on their phones right now.

Yes, I'm a curmudgeonly old Luddite. But don't I have as good a chance of being right as I am wrong too?


Hmm....

There's a key ingredient you're hitting on here, change. It's up to you (me) to adapt. When we buy a house, we don't leave everything in that house and start over, we transfer it. Is the cloud a forever answer? Who knows. But when it changes, it's my responsibility to pack it all up and move it. To me, that's way easier to do than having thousands of pieces of physical photographs to keep up with. But again, it's up to me to not let my opportunity to transfer before my storage option of the present, isn't future proof.
 
OK. Dog with a bone here. One of the issues discussed earlier was about prints versus "always in the cloud."

I am honestly really curious. Does anyone have any decent research on the long-term viability of cloud storage?

Well... it depends... :)

In theory it SHOULD be viable for forever.

In practicality it's going to depend on things like "will the company still be there", "will my kids continue to pay the hosting costs?", "will my kids even remember they're there!"

i've been using Amazon's photo storage (unlimited) for the past 2 years (with about 2 tb of photo and video) and my main concerns (besides cost) were things like was the cloud storage backed up and/or bit rot. I fairly trust Amazon's back up services so I'm not too concerned about losing data to a hardware failure on their part. I am a little concerned about bit rot (degradation of the digital storage over time) only that I've not read anything that suggests Amazon's tracking that.

It's also not my primary storage medium - I have a local hard drive and backups of that hard drive kept offsite with the cloud being my "ultimate" backup.

Coming from a time when my grandfather used to sit us around the living room to show us the slides he had taken - photo sharing is a lot different now. I rarely even print out my photos I've taken anymore. But now that they're on the cloud I can show them off using my cell phone/tablet just by accessing them on the cloud. I was at a reunion with some friends and was able to bring up some old photos I had scanned and show them off on my cell phone. It's not as "warm" as having the photos printed out, sitting around looking at photo books but the fun and sharing is still there and, with better indexing, I can just around to past disney trips really easily or bring up different photos from completely different times within a few seconds (as I was doing with my uncle the other night regarding a trip to Vegas and showing that he had had a bigger drink from a trip a few years earlier!)

I still do make prints but, ironically, the things I've "reprinted" the most are the videos I've made onto DVDs where the DVDs and/or blu-rays have degraded and aren't playable anymore. I've still got the original masters on the hard drive and just re-burn the image with the same sound and color quality as the original pressing from even 10 years ago!
 
Well... it depends... :)

In theory it SHOULD be viable for forever.

In practicality it's going to depend on things like "will the company still be there", "will my kids continue to pay the hosting costs?", "will my kids even remember they're there!"

My wife was an early adopted... Back when I was still shooting film, she was shooting digital and storing photos on Kodak's site. Kodak shut down their site... but everything got transferred to Shutterfly.

So her shutterfly folders are filled with images going back as far as about 2003. Meanwhile, all the film images I shot between 2001-2006, when I switched to digital.... the negatives are all gone or misplaced. Have a couple yellowed prints, and that's about it. If I searched through the attic, I might find a box of 4x6 prints, or maybe not.
 
If I searched through the attic, I might find a box of 4x6 prints, or maybe not.

I spent about 3 years of weekends and evenings (not altogether) scanning all the slides my grandfather took that had been scattered among several family members. Boxes upon boxes (and a 1960s case) of trays that took up a huge amount of space. Got them all converted and then moved the slides into binders. I'm the only one that had the wherewithal or desire to even attempt it. I then went through and scanned my negatives. (including 110 film!) I hadn't kept them all but enough that I was able to pull in a good chunk of my photos. I've taken far FAR more photos on digital than on film though.

Last year though we had a family reunion of extended family that we hadn't seen in over 10 years. My grandfather's slides included various photos of some of their family/family members. I ended up copying all the slides onto USB sticks for them and handed them out. Something you just couldn't do without going through all the hassle.

Just today a friend (in another state!) was asking me about some stuff about Star Wars Weekends and I forwarded her some shared links from my amazon photos, including video I took of the fireworks.

Digital mon! :)
 


I just got a new camera that fits in my shirt pocket. Zoom is 24-720 and video is 4K. 12MP. I don't crop and enlarge much. 12 MP is more than enough for 8x10.

Why 12 MP? The pixels are bigger thus does better in low light. The more pixels you pack into the sensors the pixels get smaller reducing light gathering.
 
I just got a new camera that fits in my shirt pocket. Zoom is 24-720 and video is 4K. 12MP. I don't crop and enlarge much. 12 MP is more than enough for 8x10.

Why 12 MP? The pixels are bigger thus does better in low light. The more pixels you pack into the sensors the pixels get smaller reducing light gathering.

love the large pixels
www.flickr.com/photos/mmirrorless
 
I have several thoughts on this topic.

Many people who bought a P&S or a dSLR years ago were jumping on the 'See my camera!' bandwagon. Some became proficient while others never got beyond Auto or P. Those who still use dSLRs have personal reasons and are not bothered by the rising popularity of cell phone cameras.

Then many of the digital camera owners people moved onto the IPhone and it's cult (IMO). Heck, they could carry an IPhone, upgrade their persona immediately and by gosh, sometimes take improved on-the move pictures as well immediately post those all over the internet.

Obviously, the decline in dSLR use correlates with the popularity of cell phone use and rise of new media such as Instagram and Facebook arriving on the scene. It all fits together so nicely!

My new Nexus phone takes raw shots and if I take the time to finagle the settings I get decent pictures which I then process in LR. My DS with the same phone takes unbelievably great shots with ease as jpegs. Side note; I do find that those raw photos can fill my phone up faster than a small memory card.

But my real problem here is that I am so used to the feel of a camera in my aging hands that I can't adjust my Nexus fast enough and then hold it steady enough to get quality shots. I do take pictures for info purposes like steps in packing something or when shopping but I will never use it for pictures at Disney or my landscape shots. And I am one of that small minority that actually loves processing my photos in LR.

Maybe my thoughts on this whole topic are 'old fogey' but I still think that photography is going downhill in some ways. Sometimes I wish I had grown up on video games and being tethered to a cell phone rather than holding a 2 mp digital camera in 2002.
 


I've been saying this for years, that the camera market had gotten silly and a little out of control - so many people walking around with cameras who had no enthusiasm at all for photography and often no knowledge of it - but for a while it was 'hip' to have a DSLR even if you left it in auto. Mirrorless was a similar smaller fad. P&S cameras were the one market that was mostly filling a basic need for non-photographers to snap photos when needed - and that market is indeed being filled in or replaced by phones, by sheer convenience. They have the phone, it has a camera, so why bother bringing another camera? Meanwhile, less people with no real interest in photography are still going out and buying far too much camera anymore, so DSLR and mirrorless sales are contracting too.

I personally think it's a good thing. As an enthusiast photographer, I wouldn't mind seeing the market shrink to mostly accommodate true photographers and enthusiasts...with DSLR/SLT/Mirrorless bodies growing in ability, features, ergonomics, etc in ways that photographers care about, and less in ways that every-day consumers care about. And prices can stay on the higher end to maintain profitability in smaller volume...eventually dumping the cheap entry-level models. Personally, I'd love to see it go even further, and see phones and pocket devices take over the entry-level all the way to enthusiast video market, so cameras can stop trying to load up with video-centric features, letting still photography be the main focus of design and advancements...but that's unlikely to happen as quickly at least on the enthusiast end.

I shot with SLRs in the late 70s, when you really didn't see very many at all. Most people back then either didn't take photos, used instamatic type cameras, or even disposables which came along in the 80s. For decades, SLRs were much more rare, and mostly for enthusiasts and photographers...when I ran into someone else with an SLR, you could start a conversation - 99% of the time, they knew something about photography. Over the past 10 years, when I run into someone with a DSLR, probably 15% of the time they know about photography, and many of the rest don't even know most of the settings or functions on the camera outside of the green box mode. I would like to see things go back to small but profitable volume of sales to mostly enthusiasts and pros, and let the snapshot photography be covered mostly by phones or other convenient pocket devices. I think the companies could be profitable on less sales but higher profit margins...at least some companies...there might be some contrition, but there should still be 4-5 solid companies and a good selection of excellent devices available for those who love photography and would never want to take serious photos with a small thin rectangle that rings when people call or text, no matter how good the photograph it can take.

As someone who was always pressured to give up my P&S and buy a DSLR or a mirrorless and never took the leap, I found your post interesting.

I realized that my love was never for photography but for taking a picture. I guess I just wanted to add that sometimes those who are not in the end "an enthusiast photographer" - well they don't always lack the same amount of intense passion that you all do with the skills and joy of the technology. It's not black and white.

I hope my post doesn't come across as confrontational by any means. I simply find how the two camps are portrayed very interesting. And Justin, I simply chose your post as place to extend my thoughts about those of us who are not interested in extending our technical skills.

I assume I walk around on the same joyful hunt of the shot as those who are more skilled - technically skilled - and have the desire to be so.
 
I realized that my love was never for photography but for taking a picture. I guess I just wanted to add that sometimes those who are not in the end "an enthusiast photographer" - well they don't always lack the same amount of intense passion that you all do with the skills and joy of the technology. It's not black and white.

I don't think anyone is suggesting that you, or people like you, are lacking passion.
But photography is an art --- When talking about being passionate about photography, there is a lot that goes into it.
Compared to a typical person snapping shots on their phone, the photographer has studied composition and knows the techniques behind great composition. The photographer understands the placement of light, understanding how the light will look different at different times of day, different angles. The photographer owns various gear, and knows how and when to use what. The photographer does not finish the photograph when they hit the shutter button --- the edit and process the photo afterwards. Now these are still generalities. It isn't a black and white line between real photographer and picture taker. A real enthusiast photographer who fully understands composition and light, may still choose to take their images with a phone. Or a real enthusiast photographer may do a minimum of post processing based on their style. And on the flip side, the snapshot taker may still truly enjoy trying to capture interesting images.

But it is a different passion.
 
I realized that my love was never for photography but for taking a picture. I guess I just wanted to add that sometimes those who are not in the end "an enthusiast photographer" - well they don't always lack the same amount of intense passion that you all do with the skills and joy of the technology. It's not black and white.

I hope my post doesn't come across as confrontational by any means.

Not at all - in fact, I think it complements my point very well - there are many shades of 'photographers' - from folks who just need a device to achieve the photo with no passion for it, to amateurs and milt enthusiasts to enthusiasts and pros, and all points in between. And the pressure to move to DSLRs was always very strong especially on those who enjoyed photography but were achieving all they needed to achieve with good P&S models. There really wasn't a need for them to move to DSLRs, yet for quite a while DSLRs were being pushed as the 'only' choice for anyone who wants to be anything other than a snapshooter...which is of course quite untrue and often unnecessary. I can say that I resisted the draw to DSLRs (and mirrorless for that matter) for many years as an enthusiast photographer, because the P&S models I had were fulfilling my needs, and I got results out of them that made me happy. Only when my passion and enthusiasm for specific types of challenging photography grew to be primary pursuits did I finally find that my abilities were being hindered by the cameras I was using, and I needed to move up to larger sensors, interchangeable lenses, and faster/more advanced focus systems.

Like you, I enjoyed the hunt just as much when I was doing it with P&S and superzoom models...I just got so deeply into photography that my hunt extended into challenging areas that small sensors and most P&S models of the day could not achieve.

I like that DSLRs and mirrorless are not being forced on and mis-marketed to everyone as some kind of magic cure-all, and that market may contract back in size to focus on those who need the specialty abilities, the larger sensors, or specialty lenses to their specific photographic pursuits...so the shrinking of the market doesn't necessarily bode badly for the health of that market in my eye.
 
I don't think anyone is suggesting that you, or people like you, are lacking passion.
But photography is an art --- When talking about being passionate about photography, there is a lot that goes into it.
Compared to a typical person snapping shots on their phone, the photographer has studied composition and knows the techniques behind great composition. The photographer understands the placement of light, understanding how the light will look different at different times of day, different angles. The photographer owns various gear, and knows how and when to use what. The photographer does not finish the photograph when they hit the shutter button --- the edit and process the photo afterwards. Now these are still generalities. It isn't a black and white line between real photographer and picture taker. A real enthusiast photographer who fully understands composition and light, may still choose to take their images with a phone. Or a real enthusiast photographer may do a minimum of post processing based on their style. And on the flip side, the snapshot taker may still truly enjoy trying to capture interesting images.

But it is a different passion.

I understand all that. Fully.

I am sorry that my post didn't show that. I am in no way underestimating what goes into your art.
 
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Not at all - in fact, I think it complements my point very well - there are many shades of 'photographers' - from folks who just need a device to achieve the photo with no passion for it, to amateurs and milt enthusiasts to enthusiasts and pros, and all points in between. And the pressure to move to DSLRs was always very strong especially on those who enjoyed photography but were achieving all they needed to achieve with good P&S models. There really wasn't a need for them to move to DSLRs, yet for quite a while DSLRs were being pushed as the 'only' choice for anyone who wants to be anything other than a snapshooter...which is of course quite untrue and often unnecessary. I can say that I resisted the draw to DSLRs (and mirrorless for that matter) for many years as an enthusiast photographer, because the P&S models I had were fulfilling my needs, and I got results out of them that made me happy. Only when my passion and enthusiasm for specific types of challenging photography grew to be primary pursuits did I finally find that my abilities were being hindered by the cameras I was using, and I needed to move up to larger sensors, interchangeable lenses, and faster/more advanced focus systems.

Like you, I enjoyed the hunt just as much when I was doing it with P&S and superzoom models...I just got so deeply into photography that my hunt extended into challenging areas that small sensors and most P&S models of the day could not achieve.

I like that DSLRs and mirrorless are not being forced on and mis-marketed to everyone as some kind of magic cure-all, and that market may contract back in size to focus on those who need the specialty abilities, the larger sensors, or specialty lenses to their specific photographic pursuits...so the shrinking of the market doesn't necessarily bode badly for the health of that market in my eye.

Thanks Justin.

Really enjoyed the post, as I did your first. I am pleased that I never took the ongoing push for me to go to higher end camera. Somewhere I understood that, for me, it was about my eye not the technical part of photography. For me. I think the best hint was over many years I would literally get drowsy when a professional photographer would try to teach me or I would be educating myself. :rotfl:Drove him crazy. And I honestly tried to fight it and the level of disrespect. And simply couldn't. And then I had to say "why am I doing this when my joy is in simply taking a picture?". To prove something to those who are skilled? Is that it? To be part of some group. Nope. No need.

I was discussing possible judgements and I didn't add that I have many myself. I call HDR to above mentioned friend (photographer/professor) - Hating Delightful Reality. ;) And although post production is an absolute skill and art (not to mention a joy and passion to many), I fully understand that - no argument, I have some very strong thoughts about it.

There is joy in advancement of cameras just for people like me as well. So I get it with your first post about the advancement of the DSLRs for those as skilled as yourself.

I always complained over years why can't they build my dream camera. I am not getting a DSLR, no reason. I am not changing the lens on a mirrorless, don't want to. I am not losing out on my optical zoom. And why can't the actual lens be higher end? And better sensors. And then Sony came out with the RX10. I suddenly had the money and purchased the RX10ii and even though I have everything that I complained about missing with my old Kodak bridge camera, I still really miss the simple P&S some days. And of course bought the RX10ii just before the extended zoom came with the RX10iii!

I think the move to higher end cameras, because one "should" is at times based in ego. Sometimes absolute innocent ignorance of what you need of course. And many simply enjoy learning on their new buy, so why not?. But so many times people do think it translates to immediate skills/better shots. Or the salespeople convince them of that.

I meet very few people who love taking pictures, to the point of a passion, who simply stick with a point and shoot. It's an absolute shame. Probably more often technology is bought and not regularly used after the first sense of the joy of the buy. And then they come back around to the P&S.

Anyway, rambling. Thanks for the discussion Justin.
 
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But photography is an art --- When talking about being passionate about photography, there is a lot that goes into it.

I have more to say. This sentence really captures what I was originally trying to communicate.

Of course I know there is a lot that goes into it. To think that I don't.....:drinking1

Really that is my point, I think a lot of skilled photographers miss that there is a difference between some of us "picture takers" knowing all the skills that you all possess to create your art versus many of us know fully and choose a different route.

My route is of course WAY less technically skilled, well actually verging on not technically skilled at all. But there are other skills involved. And sometimes in discussions that really gets lost, in my opinion.
 
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Visiting WDW in May with family and granddaughter for her first visit. Attached at the hip with my camera, and rarely go anywhere without my bag, camera, and lenses.
I've already been warned not to miss out on the visit because I'm too busy taking photos.
Here is what I have decided to do and would welcome comments from anyone who has already experienced by dilemma: 1) taking my DSLR with 2 lenses only - got a Nikon 18-300 for any outdoor photo I will be taking, and a 35mm 1.8 for any indoor, dark rides. The 18-300 will be on most of the time except when we go on the dark rides which will limit lens switching. 2) taking a GoPro 3+ to take video on rides where I can, hopefully, see the expression on my granddaughter's face and for use at Typhoon Lagoon, and 3) bought the Memory Maker so I can enjoy her seeing characters, etc. without worrying about taking the photo and so that for once, I can get into family photos.
 
Visiting WDW in May with family and granddaughter for her first visit. Attached at the hip with my camera, and rarely go anywhere without my bag, camera, and lenses.
I've already been warned not to miss out on the visit because I'm too busy taking photos.
Here is what I have decided to do and would welcome comments from anyone who has already experienced by dilemma: 1) taking my DSLR with 2 lenses only - got a Nikon 18-300 for any outdoor photo I will be taking, and a 35mm 1.8 for any indoor, dark rides. The 18-300 will be on most of the time except when we go on the dark rides which will limit lens switching. 2) taking a GoPro 3+ to take video on rides where I can, hopefully, see the expression on my granddaughter's face and for use at Typhoon Lagoon, and 3) bought the Memory Maker so I can enjoy her seeing characters, etc. without worrying about taking the photo and so that for once, I can get into family photos.

Sounds good, but I would leave the 35mm on my camera 95% of the time. Gives you a normal view, great for walking around. Can handle just about any light, and consistently superior image quality of the 18-300, all while keeping your camera lighter.
 
Sounds good, but I would leave the 35mm on my camera 95% of the time. Gives you a normal view, great for walking around. Can handle just about any light, and consistently superior image quality of the 18-300, all while keeping your camera lighter.
Havoc315, I know you are right about the 35mm, but my "style" is getting close ups of interesting subjects. It will take an effort for me to be abnormally wide, but in reality close ups at Disney doesn't incorporate any of the surrounding that make it a Disney photo. Got to admit, your advise makes complete sense. Hopefully I can follow through.
 
Havoc315, I know you are right about the 35mm, but my "style" is getting close ups of interesting subjects. It will take an effort for me to be abnormally wide, but in reality close ups at Disney doesn't incorporate any of the surrounding that make it a Disney photo. Got to admit, your advise makes complete sense. Hopefully I can follow through.

Just try it one day or one morning. The inability to zoom will be an adjustment and challenging. But it is rewarding...
Forces you to consider composition and perspective. You'll likely get better photos.
And if after a day, it's not to your liking, go back to the zoom.

Havoc315, I know you are right about the 35mm, but my "style" is getting close ups of interesting subjects. It will take an effort for me to be abnormally wide, but in reality close ups at Disney doesn't incorporate any of the surrounding that make it a Disney photo. Got to admit, your advise makes complete sense. Hopefully I can follow through.
 

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