Photography as a career

[wdwpluto]

However, in the sports photography world Getty is often viewed as the "anti-Christ". Their model is to lock up exclusive photo deals such as the one with the NHL, NBA, and other sporting bodies that has the effect of restricting work for non-Getty photographers. I can assure you the photography world doesn't view Getty as the "photographer's friend".

Here's a quote from a memo Getty sent to NHL teams in order to try and get them to only use their services instead of locally contracted shooters: "at minimal cost, you get photography from many NHL arenas. You will have usage rights to this material forever, in perpetuity, without additional fee until the cows come home...and even longer. And the photographic history of your team will be yours to keep with no reservations and no way for a photographer to hold your images hostage." I like the part where they equate photographer copyrights with "hostage" taking.

Yikes! Totally valid point Geoff. I've never looked at it from that end. (I primarily deal with their lifestyle material from a buyer point of view.)

All things being equal, I'd love to drop them as a vendor. But time and again, they turn up the best images for the job. It's a bad catch 22

 

[boBQuincy]

NHL, F1, and other sports bodies restrict photographers without credentials to certain size lenses, presumably to help assure that their chosen photographers have exclusive access to the best photos.

One of the advantages a pro used to have in the film days was shooting with company film. Where an amateur would have to be concerned about the cost of so many exposures the pro could shoot plenty. Of course with digital that advantage is gone and we can even bracket without worrying about the cost.

To me one of the big differences between a pro and most advanced amateurs today is the pro *must* get the shot, while the amateur (and I proudly count myself in that group) can say "oh, I didn't like the light" or "it wasn't my type of subject" and move on.


boB

 

[dodukes]

Been reading the thread and it has provided useful information. I myself graduated with Bachelors in Film Production and Photography. It's tough to get in to the biz. I thought it would be easier. Needless to say I did not do photo right out of college (but im only mid twenties yet) so still plenty of time. I look often and decided there were certain things i was unwilling to do, (weddings) regardless of profit. I love sports and started with some of that, albeit very slow. This year I finally decided to (with some encouragment of a coworker) to start doing children's photography. (Of curse she wanted her kids pics and asked and thats how the ball got rolling) I dont own space so all work is outside in public areas (hence no studio costs). So far I have done a lot of my coworkers family with a lot of interest in upcoming christmas season for family portraits and xmas cards. I have to say that this is something that i had labeled before as i was not going to do cuz I mainly enjoyed outdoor photography and other "non human" things. But hey its a way to earn a buck cuz the other way wasnt working. You may want to find something you like and get it done this way. I actually find myself really enjoying this and the parents enjoy that is not another school, jcpenny studio shot. (no offense to those) But they like that its at the beach park, etc. This was just an example that is not so discouraging cuz pretty much you are not depending on anybody but yourself to get started and get promoted. Word of mouth is huge!!!

 

[Geoff_M]

NHL, F1, and other sports bodies restrict photographers without credentials to certain size lenses, presumably to help assure that their chosen photographers have exclusive access to the best photos.

Actually, it's to do with unauthorized uses of player likenesses, team/league trademarked logos, etc. It's not to do other photographers any favors. The on-field media is legally and contractually (per the terms agreed to by the granting of the media credential) restricted in the way they may use the photos taken during the event. Normally, it's restricted to use in publications (called "editorial" use). I can't go out and start selling Danica Patrick posters (known as "commercial" use) or glossy 8x10's of her without landing in a lot of legal hot water with the Indianapolis Motor Speedway, the Indy Racing League, Rahal Letterman Racing, her sponsors, and Danica herself. The only way to do this legally would be to obtain a legal license (read: "Pay big $$$ up front, and split the sales") to do so from the proper authorities (league, driver's association, sponsors, etc.).

The "media" usually behaves itself when it comes to issues like this (if caught you can usually kiss your future credentials "goodbye"), but "fans in the stands" are another matter. They signed no legal contract like the photographers on the field, and though legally bound by many of the same restrictions (like restrictions against commercial use of someone's likeness without consent), they are less inclinded to know about or stick to such restrictions. Fan's with "pro" equipment in the stands are a major source of the cheap unlicensed photos that you see being sold at sports collector shows, flea markets, eBay, etc. As a reaction to that, many venues restrict the type of equipment a ticket holder can carry into the venue.

 

[fitzperry]

Just to add another perspective, I have a friend who is a long-time professional photographer but has only been in this area for about 3 years. She has managed, in a relatively brief period of time, to position herself quite successfully as a very high end portrait photographer. She also does quite a bit of glitzy, fashion-type commercial work. The thing she is focusing on now that I find kind of interesting is high school senior pictures. Things have certainly changed since I was in high school a thousand years ago, and everyone had to go to the same portrait studio to have basically the same set of pictures taken. My friend says that she enjoys these shoots--most of the kids are surprisingly cooperative and fun to work with, and their parents are willing to shell out a fortune for the really cool and creative images she gets. There is also an endless stream of business.

 

[boBQuincy]

Actually, it's to do with unauthorized uses of player likenesses, team/league trademarked logos, etc.
The only way to do this legally would be to obtain a legal license (read: "Pay big $$$ up front, and split the sales") to do so from the proper authorities (league, driver's association, sponsors, etc.).QUOTE]

So the rule on lenses, etc. is more to insure that Indianapolis Motor Speedway, the Indy Racing League, Rahal Letterman Racing, sponsors, and drivers can keep amateurs (otherwise known as those who haven't paid the $$$) from getting good photographs.

If that trend continues (or is taken even further) it would certainly broaden the gap between the photos a pro can get vs an amateur.

 

[Geoff_M]

Fitzperry, You are correct that there are a lot of photographic success stories out there. However, I think the profession has become a lot like the desire to become a full-time professional actor... For every one that "makes it", there's a lot of others that try it and don't make it.

So the rule on lenses, etc. is more to insure that Indianapolis Motor Speedway, the Indy Racing League, Rahal Letterman Racing, sponsors, and drivers can keep amateurs (otherwise known as those who haven't paid the $$$) from getting good photographs.

Yes, and no. It's "yes" mainly in the sense that they want to make it harder for the "pirates" to illegally commercially exploit their likenesses instead of preventing your average fan from getting a good photo as a keepsake for themselves. It's similar to the rules against bringing audio recording devices into concerts. The intent is to mainly stop the production and sale of "bootleg" concert recordings.

I get lots of great images and don't have to pay anyone anything. However, my usage is limited to editorial use (which is protected by law). If I want to commercially exploit a likeness, then I'd need the same licenses and releases to do so as any person in the stands. At least most venues allow you to bring in a camera. For most people, photos from these point and shoots are good enough keepsakes for them. But at Joe Louis Arena they aren't going to let me bring in my D2H with an 80-200 f2.8 because they don't want the chance that my stuff is going to pop up on eBay at $5 an 8x10 plus shipping and handling. It's a lot easier to control the problem at the source instead of trying to police it once the "cow's out of the barn".

 

[Furgus]

At the RBC Center in Raleigh, they let us bring in any camera we like. I was at game 7 and you can see some of the shots I took.
All shot with a Nikon D50, 7 rows up from the Ice. I used my 70-300 for most of these shots.

http://gavette.blogspot.com/

 

[Geoff_M]

Must be nice... At "The Joe", the limit is "no lens longer than 54mm". It's enforced even for things like practices that you may be invited to as part of being in the fan club. Must have been fun being at the SCF's. Thanks for beating the Oilers for us!!!!

 

[Furgus]

It was awesome. I would have liked to play Detroit again, I really think we could have taken them this year

 

[fitzperry]

Fitzperry, You are correct that there are a lot of photographic success stories out there. However, I think the profession has become a lot like the desire to become a full-time professional actor... For every one that "makes it", there's a lot of others that try it and don't make it.

Oh, I don't doubt that it's a difficult business to break into successfully. In fact, my friend has a marketing degree, and although she is a very talented photographer, I think her sales skills and ability to evaluate the market are equally critical to her success. I also think that some people are attracted to photography as a profession because it just seems cool (not to suggest that the op fits into that category!), and they don't realize what hard work it can be on so many different levels--physical demands, difficult clients ("what do you mean, you can't make me look like Cindy Crawford?!!"), sacrificing personal time to photograph events, etc.

 

[Sonno]

I'm a cook by trade, and aspiring to open up a restaurant (soon I might add! ). Photography for me is more of a hobby and an outlet for creative expression... or but yet, something constructive to do with my free time

If I ever do try to make money with photography, as in like a career or something; I've pretty well decided I would only do the "art gallery" thang. That and maybe set up a booth or two at a flea market or a photo expo or something, and have fun interacting with folks and kids and what have you, making fun little pics like this for $20-25 a pop:

(that's my son in the bottle by the way )

To be honest, and this is my opinion, if it's an art, than let it be art. If it's good it'll sell, if it isn't it won't. But it's still art; you really can't put a schedule and/or a deadline on it. The only thing I'd ever want to aspire to be, as far as photography goes anyways, is to become "the" modern day Uelsmann (well, he is still alive but... you know what I mean...).

And that's about it.


EDIT: I wonder if there's a market for shooting families on their WDW vactions??

 

[Kelly Grannell]

difficult clients ("what do you mean, you can't make me look like Cindy Crawford?!!")

I actually encountered this waaaay too often! Took a pic, enlarged the pic to poster size, then the client says "why do I look so old in the picture?" (in the back of my mind I replied "because you ARE that old, you moron!").

Now I always use Kodak GEM Brush at 40% intensity. Never heard any stupid comment like that anymore.

 

[captaincrash]

I'm a cook by trade, and aspiring to open up a restaurant (soon I might add! ). Photography for me is more of a hobby and an outlet for creative expression... or but yet, something constructive to do with my free time

If I ever do try to make money with photography, as in like a career or something; I've pretty well decided I would only do the "art gallery" thang. That and maybe set up a booth or two at a flea market or a photo expo or something, and have fun interacting with folks and kids and what have you, making fun little pics like this for $20-25 a pop:

(that's my son in the bottle by the way )

To be honest, and this is my opinion, if it's an art, than let it be art. If it's good it'll sell, if it isn't it won't. But it's still art; you really can't put a schedule and/or a deadline on it. The only thing I'd ever want to aspire to be, as far as photography goes anyways, is to become "the" modern day Uelsmann (well, he is still alive but... you know what I mean...).

And that's about it.


EDIT: I wonder if there's a market for shooting families on their WDW vactions??

Well stated from my POV...

I'm not looking to go into the Resturant business - as I am winding down from the finance industry after 15 years in it - and I am interested in photography as a passonate hobby. As such - I am prety low ont he learning curve in most respects and truly admire the creative results like your son in the bottle as well as the subtle refinements that are not obvious to the eye.

At this point I count myself among those who simply marvel at the results. My compliments!!!

 

[fitzperry]

I actually encountered this waaaay too often! Took a pic, enlarged the pic to poster size, then the client says "why do I look so old in the picture?" (in the back of my mind I replied "because you ARE that old, you moron!").

Now I always use Kodak GEM Brush at 40% intensity. Never heard any stupid comment like that anymore.

This reminds me of the time a couple of years ago that I glanced at a magazine in line at the grocery store and thought "wow, that model looks like a younger Meg Ryan." Then I looked again, and sure enough it was Meg Ryan. For cryin' out loud, the woman is in her 40's--why do they have to Photoshop her to look like she's 21? Then again, blown up to poster size, I might want to have a few years shaved off, and maybe a pound or two.

 

[keahgirl8]

Oh, I don't doubt that it's a difficult business to break into successfully. In fact, my friend has a marketing degree, and although she is a very talented photographer, I think her sales skills and ability to evaluate the market are equally critical to her success. I also think that some people are attracted to photography as a profession because it just seems cool (not to suggest that the op fits into that category!), and they don't realize what hard work it can be on so many different levels--physical demands, difficult clients ("what do you mean, you can't make me look like Cindy Crawford?!!"), sacrificing personal time to photograph events, etc.

I didn't expect it to be easy. I just really enjoy it as a hobby and thought it sounded like a creative and fun career. I'm just kind of at a crossroads right now, and not wanting a 9 to 5 job. But that's just me...don't need to go into that! lol Anyway, thanks for all of the info!

 

[OCSurfCity]

I am a professional photographer having shot for the NFL, MLB, NHL, NBA, NCAA football (USC, UCLA, University of Hawaii) and Surfing. Some of my images have been in major publications.

But it is a dog eat dog world. The photography market is really tight as companies like Getty Images slowly takes our bread and butter away from us. Leaving me to Little League and youth sports photography as my bread and butter assignments.

I have over $40,000 tied up in my digital camera equipment but need to find a full time benefits paying position. This is why you probably seen a lot of my posts asking about Disneyland jobs. I have a BS and MBA degree in Business/Management.

 

[0bli0]

spot on. when you look at major events where you see dozens of big white primes and everyone is shooting 8 1/2 frames a second, you're lucky to offload any shots commercially. if you do, it's for relatively little and often without shooter's credit and you lose the license. kid's sport, on the otherhand, on a good day in the right suburbs, i can make $1200 from one shoot easy with additional revenue from enlargements/posters, etc. then there are team photos and the other work that i'm always contracted to do as a result of parent's happiness.

the other thing i do often is some freelance PJ. start submitting photos from various events around the community to your local small paper. they don't pay much but you get the publishing experience with credit.

sure, i'd love to have images in SI, Time, and NatGeo. i'll get there... and hey, if i don't, at least i have the Manly Daily, Good Taste, Thrasher, and ZooNooz