Photo sharing: Sony Alpha

[havoc315]

I have to give credit to Sony for trying to redefine the "high-end"/DSLR camera market. "high end" meaning everything above P&S and Bridge.

The traditional DSLR market segments from "bottom to top" are roughly as follows;

"Soccer Mom"/newbie

Hobbyist

Enthusiast

Professional

Which is why DSLR's are designed to give the user controls for varying photographic needs.

Conversly, with the A7 cameras, Sony is attempting to define the market by the type of photographer you are vs. how "serious" you are. The A7 is best suited for the Street Photographer or even Sports. The A7r is for the landscape photographer or portrait/fashion ( a cheaper, lighter, medium format type option) while the A7s is for the low light shooter and/or for video. Can each camera perform well in the other areas? Certainly - but if you define yourself as a specific "type" of photographer vs. "beginner - amateur - pro" than Sony has a camera for you. The area that is somewhat lacking is probably Sports due to the inherent advantages of a OVF and mirror - although that gap may be closed soon.

The following article splits it out even more;

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/explora...iew/sony-a7-series-which-model-suits-you-best

The traditional DSLR can do almost everything very well because they are designed to appeal to every photographer within the traditional segments.- while the A7 cameras can do most things very well, a few things not so well and a few things excellent.

I don't know if Sony will ultimately be successful with this strategy, but the continual focus on Emount seems to say that so far it is working.

The A7 is absolutely not a sports camera -- Putting aside the EVF issues, it has a pretty slow frame rate, mediocre autofocus. Combined with the lack of long lenses in the FE mount, it would be pretty laughable as a sports camera.
But it is intended as a "general purpose" shooter. It can handle sports/street/candids better than the A7r, and most people don't want/need 36mp for regular use. The A7s is the specialized low light shooter, but many people want more than 12mp.. So the A7 is a bit of a sweet spot in terms of price/resolution/performance.

Sony isn't alone in providing cameras based on "type" of photography. The traditional dSLR companies already do the same thing.
Canon: Sports and wildlife shooters: 1DX and 7Dii. Studio camera -- 5diii and 6d. Street/candids/wedding camera -- 5diii. Video -- 5diii and 70D.

Nikon -- Sports, the older D300 which may eventually get an upgrade, and the D4s. Studio/landscape/products -- The D810e. Low light specialty -- the DF. All-arounder APS-C, the D7100. Candids/street/wedding/general purpose full frame -- the D750 or D610.

So Sony is finally arriving to the game -- of high level photographers want/need more specialized niche fitting camera. They previously did more of a 1-size fits all, with the A99 being their sole full frame offering.

 

[zackiedawg]

More birdie time! Haven't posted many birds with the big Tamron 150-600mm on my A580 - but have been taking plenty. Here are some birds in flight with this combo:

Cormorant coming in to land:

Great egret cruising by:

Wee little belted kingfisher:

Peregrine falcon cruising off the southeast coast of Cuba:

Cormorant cruising low and fast:

Cattle egret getting ready to land:

And one not-flying bird - an ugly wood stork sitting pretty atop a dead tree:

 

[havoc315]

Cormorant cruising low and fast:

[/img]

Wow. How do you feel handholding the 150-600?

I'm doing an Alaska cruise next summer... trying to decide how best to balance weight with focal length. I want great wildlife images, but I also don't want to overly weigh myself down, break my back, all for a lens that ends up taking poor shots because it was too big for me to handhold it.

 

[Hockeyman]

Mutually assured destruction. If my wife questions how much I spend on photography, I can question how much she spends on her hair and nails.

Though I'm mostly being good right now. In my new kit, I barely spent more than I got for my old gear. Just *slightly* over budget. But I really am trying to resist adding a bit more.....I could easily spend another $2,000 and still want more gear. (I could use an ultra wide zoom.... I wouldn't mind upgrading my 24-85 lens, possibly to the Tamron 24-70/2.8 or the Sigma 24-105/4, I'd like a 100mm macro lens, an 85 prime wouldn't be bad to own for portraits.... and while it's not something I would use regularly, a really long premium zoom, like a 80-400 or the newer 500/600 zooms...).

See at least you have some leverage to fall back on in case she does question, im SOL if my wife finds out.

I go back and forth on what lens I want next. I think ive narrowed down that ill be getting rid of my 14mm Rokinon and replacing it with something close in focal range Sony 16-35mm FE if I switch or the Tamron 15-30mm if I stick with A mount. The Rokinon is nice but keeps giving me some trouble in the bottom left corner with blur

 

[zackiedawg]

It hasn't been a problem at all for me - as long as you've shot with prior long lenses, it's not really all that much different - it's about the same weight as my Minolta 300mm F4 and 1.4x tc, and not too much heavier than the Tamron 200-500 I had previously. Overall length is a tiny bit more when compacted, but a good 6-7 inches when zoomed all the way - but none of the substantial weight sits out that far, so even fully extended it doesn't feel any different when shooting compared to my other long lenses. I added my pistol grip to it - mounted to the tripod collar...that makes it even easier to hold steady when shooting, and when carrying, I can alternate between holding the vertical pistol grip or the horizontal carry handle built into the collar. I've been very pleasantly surprised how crisp and sharp the lens can be even at F6.3 and 600mm - better than the old 200-500mm Tamron by a good bit...and really not far off overall in performance compared to my excellent 300mm F4 APO - but at twice the focal reach. I always use the Tamron handheld exclusively - I don't like birding with a tripod or monopod as I don't feel I can react as quickly to a sudden surprise sighting or flyby. I brought the lens on my cruise a few weeks ago (the peregrine falcon pic) and was comfortable shooting off my balcony handheld. I'd recommend something like the Barska pistol grip to give a little more stability and an additional orientation for your hand to alternate so you don't get tired or cramp...otherwise, unless you've never used a heavy or large lens before, it shouldn't be too difficult getting used to the big Tamron handheld.

 

[fractal]

Awesome shots Justin!

 

[havoc315]

unless you've never used a heavy or large lens before, it shouldn't be too difficult getting used to the big Tamron handheld.

*raises hand* I've never used anything particularly large or heavy before. Never really any lens set-up beyond about 1000 grams.
My 70-200/4 with a 2x teleconverter begins to feel moderately heavy after an hour shooting.

I'm thinking that "learning on the go" may not be a smart idea. I'll end up with a sore back, just to get poor shots since I wasn't experienced with the long lens.

 

[havoc315]

See at least you have some leverage to fall back on in case she does question, im SOL if my wife finds out.

I go back and forth on what lens I want next. I think ive narrowed down that ill be getting rid of my 14mm Rokinon and replacing it with something close in focal range Sony 16-35mm FE if I switch or the Tamron 15-30mm if I stick with A mount. The Rokinon is nice but keeps giving me some trouble in the bottom left corner with blur

I'm curious as to the pricing of the 15-30. Remember also, it may take a long time before it comes out for Sony A-mount.

But I will eventually get the Tamron 15-30 or a Nikon option, depending on the pricing.

 

[zackiedawg]

Ah - didn't realize you never dealt with heavy lenses. That 1000g lens setup is getting in the vicinity, but the Tamron would definitely outweigh that. I think the key is to find a good, comfortable way to transport and carry the lens when not shooting, which is where you really tend to get tired when out and about with the lens - the actual time spent holding the lens out and shooting is usually less than 1/3 of the total time carrying the lens, so as long as you take the stress off for the carry, it should help last longer for the shoot. That's partly why I like the pistol grip - it gives me a large number of different ways to carry the lens, which keeps me from straining any particular set of muscles for too long at a time. I guess if you've ever had a baby, or carried small dogs, etc you probably tried to constantly shift how you hold - switching arms, holding over your shoulder, then cradled in one arm, then the other arm, etc. I carry the camera much the same way with the big lens...sometimes it's hanging in my right hand upside down by the tripod collar handle, then the left hand, then it's being held against my forearm while gripping the pistol grip, then it's cradled in my left arm across the front of my stomach, then it's hoisted up over my right shoulder, lens pointed back, and so on. That helps me go for many hours a day without putting the gear down, and not getting too tired. You could also bring a sling bag, lens holster, or cotton carrier to carry the camera and lens at times so your arms can take a break.

 

[Hockeyman]

Well that escalated quickly.. . A7II with the 5 axis IBIS. So now let me ask you guys, whats the point of having both in body and in lens stabilization, besides the obvious benefit it brings to using non FE lenses. Will Sony not need to focus on making any nee FE glass now?

Oh, and 30% faster AF versus the A7. I love how they are marking the "robust" mount lol

 

[havoc315]

Well that escalated quickly.. . A7II with the 5 axis IBIS. So now let me ask you guys, whats the point of having both in body and in lens stabilization, besides the obvious benefit it brings to using non FE lenses. Will Sony not need to focus on making any nee FE glass now?

Oh, and 30% faster AF versus the A7. I love how they are marking the "robust" mount lol

Had this camera been an option a couple months ago, I bet I'd still be shooting Sony. I don't regret changing, but the main reason I didn't pick the a7 was that I'd have to change all my lenses anyway if I wanted stabilization.

They will continue FE lenses because a-mount lenses still become bulky, they still require a light-sapping mirror. But will they continue to put OSS into FE lenses? That, I don't know. This may be an experiment by Sony -- seeing if it sells, especially to their a-mount owners.

 

[fractal]

Well that escalated quickly.. . A7II with the 5 axis IBIS. So now let me ask you guys, whats the point of having both in body and in lens stabilization, besides the obvious benefit it brings to using non FE lenses. Will Sony not need to focus on making any nee FE glass now?

Oh, and 30% faster AF versus the A7. I love how they are marking the "robust" mount lol

Yeah, already announced. Taking preorders in Japan.

Sony claims that the camera will use both in body and in lens stabilization with OSS lenses for super-duper stabilization.

Not clear if every E-mount body going forward will have stabilization or not so additional OSS lenses possible.

Somebody just came out with a stronger replacement mount to install on emount cameras. I guess this was Sony's response.

Pricing is estimated to be $1,600 for the world's first 5 axis stabilized mirrorless FF camera. Pretty damn tempting.

 

[fractal]

I also like that they placed the shutter button back on the top of grip just like my Nex-7. That was one thing that bothered me when I handled an A7.

Love Sony or hate Sony, one must appreciate that fact that they have created a Full Frame stabilized Interchangeable lens camera at a size and price point roughly that of the Olympus m4/3 omd em1.

 

[fractal]

A few other upgrades vs. the A7

Better viewfinder

Improved video; XAVCs and s-log2

40% faster start up vs. A7.


Havoc,

So what's Nikon's return policy?

 

[Hockeyman]

Havoc,

So what's Nikon's return policy?

 

[Hockeyman]

Had this camera been an option a couple months ago, I bet I'd still be shooting Sony. I don't regret changing, but the main reason I didn't pick the a7 was that I'd have to change all my lenses anyway if I wanted stabilization.

.

You know I actually had that thought this morning after seeing the announcement about you switching and if you would have gotten this if it was available.

 

[Hockeyman]

Yeah, already announced. Taking preorders in Japan.

Sony claims that the camera will use both in body and in lens stabilization with OSS lenses for super-duper stabilization.

Not clear if every E-mount body going forward will have stabilization or not so additional OSS lenses possible.

Somebody just came out with a stronger replacement mount to install on emount cameras. I guess this was Sony's response.

Pricing is estimated to be $1,600 for the world's first 5 axis stabilized mirrorless FF camera. Pretty damn tempting.

Depending on what the A9 shows me, im pretty confident in saying ill be shooting with an A7II come next spring.

So now might be a good time to pick up an A7 if anyone is looking for one lol

 

[havoc315]

You know I actually had that thought this morning after seeing the announcement about you switching and if you would have gotten this if it was available.

LOL. I don't regret my change at all. Partially, there is fun just experiencing such a new system.

But there were many factors in deciding whether to change, and what change to make. And a need to start all over with lenses, was a big factor against changing away from A-mount. Every time I considered, "well... I could do the A7 and keep some of my lenses with an adapter"... I remembered the loss of stabilization, and decided I really didn't want to use an adapter.

So if this had been an option at the time, the ability to keep my lenses may have been enough to sway me towards the E-mount. I easily could see myself keeping my 100/2.8 macro and my 200/2.8 (then you wouldn't have it Fractal!), maybe my 17-35, and then supplementing with a couple native lenses. It would certainly have been easier than starting all over.

I'll be very curious to see some objective testing and reviews of the A7ii auto focus, etc.

And I again really question the reliability of SAR. Whenever they do talk about SR5 95% certainty rumors --- they end up being far far off. But then when something big does happen, SAR doesn't catch it until the very last second. I know it's a rumor site, but seems the rumors are just made up. So I really wonder the amount of truth in the early 2015 A9.

 

[fractal]

LOL. I don't regret my change at all. Partially, there is fun just experiencing such a new system.

But there were many factors in deciding whether to change, and what change to make. And a need to start all over with lenses, was a big factor against changing away from A-mount. Every time I considered, "well... I could do the A7 and keep some of my lenses with an adapter"... I remembered the loss of stabilization, and decided I really didn't want to use an adapter.

So if this had been an option at the time, the ability to keep my lenses may have been enough to sway me towards the E-mount. I easily could see myself keeping my 100/2.8 macro and my 200/2.8 (then you wouldn't have it Fractal!), maybe my 17-35, and then supplementing with a couple native lenses. It would certainly have been easier than starting all over.

I'll be very curious to see some objective testing and reviews of the A7ii auto focus, etc.

And I again really question the reliability of SAR. Whenever they do talk about SR5 95% certainty rumors --- they end up being far far off. But then when something big does happen, SAR doesn't catch it until the very last second. I know it's a rumor site, but seems the rumors are just made up. So I really wonder the amount of truth in the early 2015 A9.

Actually, a Japanese website (digicame?) broke the news which sent SAR scrabbling.

I do believe there is an A9 on the horizon as it continues Sony approach to move upmarket with their imaging business ( they just dropped the P&S cybershot line).

 

[havoc315]

Actually, a Japanese website (digicame?) broke the news which sent SAR scrabbling.

I do believe there is an A9 on the horizon as it continues Sony approach to move upmarket with their imaging business ( they just dropped the P&S cybershot line).

I suspect it is happening as well. Just pointing out that SAR's track record has been very very poor for the last 2 years. It may be partially due to the fact that the administrator doesn't speak and understand English well.

It seems that 18 months ago -- while Sony was developing the "A" 7, and the "A" 6000, etc.... SAR was reporting that lots of "A" - mount cameras were on the horizon. There was never an understanding that Sony was labeling E-mount cameras with the "A."
Then when the A7 series was announced... SAR had been correctly reporting some of the vague information, but most of the specifics were totally off until the last minute.
Then the A7s basically caught SAR flat footed, just like the A7ii.

Basically, it seems that SAR does get a glimpse of information here and there from a "source,"... but the glimpses are so incomplete, and then they get misinterpreted.