PayPal dispute from buyer, ACK; update 2-7-10; update 2-23-10

[cuterlt]

I sell here and there on ebay, not a lot, not often. No negatives, no problems, no chargebacks, etc. Anyway, today I get a paypal dispute email saying that one of my buyers has not received her item.
I did do signature confirmation delivery because it's such a high priced item, and she got it - I've got a copy of the confirmation from USPS which is signed, although it appears to be signed by someone other than her (different first name, same last name, maybe her husband?). Of course paypal has put a HUGE hold on my account so I am now in the negative. Of course, I always take the money out right away because of horror stories I've heard. Will paypal try to attach any accounts I have linked to paypal?

I tried to figure out how this will work. Will I win? Will they take the hold off my account?

The item I sold was a gift card, so I can check the balance when I get home and ask them to cancel the gift card, but I don't want to have to pay this person back money that I don't have right now. Depending on the balance of the card, which I presume will be close to 0, should I cancel the card? or just leave it be, or let the buyer make that decision?

I am hopeful paypal will find in my favor since I did do signature confirmation and they got a signature. Will USPS be to blame?

Any help would be appreciated.
Thanks!

 

[jmartinez1895]

I'm very happy to hear that you do where smart enogh to get the signature. Pay pal should find in your favor, just be sure to send them anything they want and keep any and all email's between you and the buyer for a long time. Email the buyer ( if you havent alread) and let them know who recevied the item. Maybe ther is a chance they had a miss comunication and the buy truly thinks that they did not get it. At least you will have proff that you have tried to contact the buyer. If ther was a problem at the home of he buyer then I would think it is ther responsibility to send you sepcial instructions about maybe sending it marked for addresse only. I'm sure paypal will be able to help you out.

 

[cuterlt]

Well, of course, the gift card has been all used up. Surprise, surprise. I sent the buyer all the info I had, that is the signature confirmation. Maybe I should call the postmaster there and make a complaint.
Any other suggestions?

 

[Bevin]

Well, of course, the gift card has been all used up. Surprise, surprise. I sent the buyer all the info I had, that is the signature confirmation. Maybe I should call the postmaster there and make a complaint.
Any other suggestions?

Have you replied through paypal with the tracking number and confirmation/signature of delivery? I don't know if you want to elevate the dispute to a claim so a paypal agent can review the fact that it was signed for. Since your buyer claimed item not received, and not item not as described, I would think you would win your case.

Can you get a date on when the gift card was used? I don't think they can come back with another claim if the INR claim is denied, but they might try with item not as described, and try to say that a worthless gift card was received.

 

[disneylove69]

Tell the buyer that you will file a formal complaint witht the postmaster and ask for a fraud to be investigated if she says she didn't get it and your concerned some one else did. Taking other's mail is a Federal offense. If she did get it and lied maybe she'll back off the claim.

 

[~Kathie]

Tell the buyer that you will file a formal complaint witht the postmaster and ask for a fraud to be investigated if she says she didn't get it and your concerned some one else did. Taking other's mail is a Federal offense. If she did get it and lied maybe she'll back off the claim.

Very good advice. I wouldn't tell her....I would just do it. when you do communicate with her, be sure to save a copy of all emails so you can provide them to the fraud departments.

I'm sorry this happened to you. As sellers we do everything to make sure our buyers are happy while protecting ourselves....and then you get some dirtbag to pull this crap. Getting signature Delivery was excellent.

Check out this link. It states for buyers but there is a lot of information and links where you as a seller can file fraud charges with the FBI, The USPS and your District Attorney's Office, the buyers District Attorney's Office, the police in both states and more.

http://www.mindspring.com/~bookdealers/ripoff.html#9

I have used this information and it helped me immensely.

When I first started buying on ebay, I bought a collectible Barbie doll that was described MIMB (mint in the mint box). When it arrived the plastic on the front of the box was broken in several places and the doll was yellow. Come to find out the seller has used another sellers picture of an actual mint doll.

There were other buyers she screwed and at the time to could communicate to anyone on ebay. We each filed fraud charges separately.

To make a long story short, I filed a claim with PayPal and ebay and they were dragging their feet, mostly because the seller wasn't answering her emails. Sooooooooo..........I filed a fraud report with anyone who would listen.

Her state Attorney General's Office called me to ask questions and sent the police to investigate and then a summons to appear in court. She freaked. She sent me an email that I ruined her reputation, her life, etc, etc, etc. Asking me to withdraw the fraud report and she would send me my money back (I had already sent back the doll as instructed by PayPal.) Like I was going to believe her??? Not a chance.

At this point I stopped answering her emails, she was already sweating.....so I didn't care if I ever got my $$ back.

PayPal gave me $25,(of $90) all they said they would give me out of their pocket and went after her for the $25. She ended up paying me the rest by money order.

My point is, check this website and file every fraud claim you can. It really helped me and I hope it will help you.

I just checked the website and some of the ebay/paypal links no longer work but the fraud information links are fine. Guess it hasn't been updated in a while.

Here is another link for sellers but it deals with mostly ebay & Paypal and not getting paid. There is some information in there that may help.

http://www.mindspring.com/~bookdealers/nopay.html

Good luck!

 

[Green Tea]

Can the company that the gift card was for give you a record of transactions? If you have a record that all the money was spent in the town where she lives and you don't, perhaps that can help your claim.

 

[Ciciwoowoo]

Having the signature, especially if it isn't hers, won't help you. Or at least in my case, it didn't. I had someone from the Miami area purchase something through Paypal. It was sent via UPS and I was able to produce the signature of the person. It wasn't the same person who purchased the item so Paypal kept my money. I was out over $200.

Count me as one of those who HATES Paypal!!!

A PS to this story...the same person who did the original purchase tried one month later to purchase an item from me that was nearly $400!!! I gladly cancelled that sale and have a big post it note next to the computers at work that he is on the do not sell list!!! In fact, I'm highly suspicious of anyone in the Miami area anymore.

 

[pilesoflaundry]

Having the signature, especially if it isn't hers, won't help you. Or at least in my case, it didn't. I had someone from the Miami area purchase something through Paypal. It was sent via UPS and I was able to produce the signature of the person. It wasn't the same person who purchased the item so Paypal kept my money. I was out over $200.

Count me as one of those who HATES Paypal!!!

A PS to this story...the same person who did the original purchase tried one month later to purchase an item from me that was nearly $400!!! I gladly cancelled that sale and have a big post it note next to the computers at work that he is on the do not sell list!!! In fact, I'm highly suspicious of anyone in the Miami area anymore.

You can block him so you don't have to keep notes. Buyer won't even be able to bid on your stuff.

OP, send the signature confirmation to paypal and that the gift card was spent and go from there.

 

[Melrosgirl]

UGH. Dealing with paypal in situations like this is tough. BTDT.

Paypal usually sides with the buyer. If the buyer says that wasn't my signature. Must have been delivered to the wrong address, etc., paypal will take her side.

It's why I stopped using paypal a couple of years ago after using them since they basically opened. They can and will attach your bank account to get the money back. If she paid for insurance, that will reimburse you/her.

 

[labdogs42]

I had an eBay/Pay Pal debacle recently, too. It was partially my fault (my description of the product could have been better, but I did have actual pictures of the product, too), but it was essentially a nightmare. I won't be selling on eBay any more as a result. It is just too much of a hassle and there is no protection for sellers. It stinks!

 

[Dancemom03]

I've won and lost paypal claims over the years. My advice is to be sure all communication is SENT THRU PAYPAL. When you communicate, be kind and willing to assist but state all the facts. Remember that, if/when escalated to a claim, paypal will be looking at your communications as part of the decision.

Be sure that the sig confirmation number is entered into paypal. That gives everybody easy reference to confirm delivery. After that, call paypal on the phone to ask for advice now. You might wait on hold for a while but, often, they can ease your mind, sometimes even resolve these issues on the phone.

As to your bank account... I could be wrong but I'm pretty sure they can still only access it for withdrawals IF you agreed to back-up funding. This is usually done in relation to the paypal debit card and can be convienent for some. I've never agreed to it for simply that reason - if somebody's taking $$ out of the bank I want to know first. If yours is an older account and you don't use it often or don't have a pp debit card, you probably didn't either.

A paypal account can theoretically stay negative for a while. Of course, you won't be able to send any payment, and - if it's negative more than 60 or 90 days (think it's 90... can't remember which but pp rep can tell you when you call) - they will limit your account, preventing anyone from sending you money also, which sometimes requires faxing copies of utility bills, drivers licenses, possibly even a credit check after you pay to reinstate it so you want to avoid that if at all possible. Paypal does have a collection agency but, in the past, it had to be VERY past due for them get involved. DD20 knows someone from college who once had an account negative for a year or more though. They limited the accounts of other kids in the same dorm in an effort to get the offender to pay - by IP address or something. It's something I'm sure his friends and roommate aren't likely to forget anytime soon. Let's just say he isn't on many guest lists anymore...

 

[3boymthr]

Scan the receipt from the post office if you still have it. Scan the delivery confirmation number. print a copy of the delivery confirmation with the signature information. print a copy of the transactions on the gift card and scan it. e-mail all the scanned information to her and to paypal dispute resolutions. She is counting on you not having this information. Once you send this it is likely that she will back off.

And since you have documentation that the gift card was used, as a pp suggested, contact the post office and your local police department about the steps to take for fraud investigation. Email her and politely let her know that you are doing this because since you have documentation that the package was delivered obviously someone must have stolen her mail and that you hope since this is a federal offense the person who stole her mail will be caught and sent to jail. She'll likely back off really quickly.

 

[cuterlt]

Thank you for all your advice. It is very much appreciated.
I guess I'm lucky that I have not had to deal with this issue before, but it was nice to get some clear, simple instructions. I appreciate it.
I will keep you posted!

 

[a1tinkfans]

Tell the buyer that you will file a formal complaint witht the postmaster and ask for a fraud to be investigated if she says she didn't get it and your concerned some one else did. Taking other's mail is a Federal offense. If she did get it and lied maybe she'll back off the claim.

I would email her thru My ebay messages ONLY, as ebay tracks it. Tell her that you are aware she is claiming that she did not received the item.
Then tell her that you have proof of delivery with a signature taken at her home, date/time/name (whatever you can read).
Tell her you are filing a formal complaint with the USPS to start a Fraud investigation as tampering with mail is a federal offense.
You should also state that you are contacting both ebay and paypal of the claims as well.
She may suddenly drop it...otherwise YOU will be very well covered/protected with your proof.
So KEEP copies of everything you email and send. Give no one an original anything!! The tracking number alone showing the "progress" of your request, from drop off to attempts to signature is all online for anyone to see. So, be sure to include that number in your email as well. I am not so sure I would state that you already know it (gift card) was used (prob by whoever signed for it)
I would end by stating something like....., perhaps you can check with all members of your household to confirm there was no error/mis-communication regarding the receipt of the item signed at your home. I look forward to concluding our transaction.
Let us know how it goes! Good Luck!!! There seems to be more and more of these "bad apples" out there..........you have to always protect your interests just as you did! I hope it works out.....You do have a completely separate account linked to ebay/paypal, right? You should NEVER have any "family" $$ linked to them at all, ever!!!

 

[cuterlt]

What an interesting experience this has been.
So, with all of the help I received here, this is what I did.

Contacted the place where I got the gift card, found out where it was spent. They even sent me copies of all the receipts. Unfortunately they did not still had videotapes from the day that the purchases were made.

Contacted USPS and made a claim. They weren't real helpful and told me to call consumer affairs.

In looking at the signature confirmation, I used her last name and the first name I could read off the confirmation and found an address for the person who signed for it - and it matched the poorly written address on the confirmation. Found a phone number too for that person.

I contacted the post office where the item was picked up as I asked the buyer for their post office case number and she gave me that number. I talked with the supervisor there who actually remembered the situation because he had reviewed the claim. He advised me that last week, the woman's husband called the post office and said he needed to pick up the package. He did pick it up with the postal slip and signed for it. He remembered it very clearly and gave me his name.
I let the buyer know all that via paypal.

Then I called paypal, since I figured I'd gotten enough information, and they told me to escalate the claim. I was a little scared to do that because I was afraid they would find against me. He said it should find in my favor and I should hear something within 24-48 hours. I escalated the claim, wrote a note about what I had done, and within a couple minutes, they found in my favor and removed the hold from my account!!!!!

hopefully this is the end of it, although I still need to file a claim for mail fraud. And figure out how I can address this with ebay so this woman can never do this to someone else. I am sure she will if she isn't stopped. I'm sure she doesn't care how stressed this can make someone to have to worry about losing over $400 because of a lie.

Since she went through paypal, I'm curious if she files a chargeback with her credit card company, if that will affect me or not? I wish I knew who her credit card carrier was because I'm sure she will try to scam them too.

Thank you all again for the help. It was nice to know I wasn't the only out there who had been scammed. I really appreciate the advice.

 

[Green Tea]

Keep all the information in case she tries a charge back. Good for you for tackling the issue of fraud and I applaud you for continuing to keep the post office apprised of the situation. She is likely using the USPS to fraud and scam multiple people. Hopefully the postal inspector's office will take her on.

 

[horseshowmom]

Keep us up to date on her actions. Just curious what her response is going to be.

 

[Good Morning Dewdrop]

What a hassle! I'm so glad they found in your favor!

A mail fraud filing may well scare her - which I think would be priceless! It's so wrong of people to try to play the system like that!

 

[jmartinez1895]

I'm happy taht Paypal was able to help you and that they were on your side. PLEASE keep all of your paper work, print out all of the emails, the paypal findings, ect and keep them in a safe palce for the next seven years or so just in case you get a call to show up on Judge Judy. JK about Judy, but you never know, she could file a case against you in small claims. I hope that the USPS sticks it to them or at least puts the fear of God in them so they stop doind this. Paypal will notify Ebay that a flase claim was made and Ebay may cancel the account, but all she has to do is get a new email and it's back to scamming. I sure am happy that you got evything worked out and thanks for posting a followup.