Paul Hamm - Give it to Korea?

[ripleysmom]

I originally answered that I had no opinion.

That being said, if it were me I think that I would not want to keep a medal that I truly did not deserve.

If the scoring had been done properly, he would have received the Silver not the Gold. He should let that fact guide his decision.

 

[snoopy]

Actually, now that I learned that through reviewing the tape the Korean actually had mistakes that he was not penalized for, I not only do not think that Hamm should give the medal back, I don't think he should share it, either.

 

[theSurlyMermaid]

Originally posted by ripleysmom
I originally answered that I had no opinion.

That being said, if it were me I think that I would not want to keep a medal that I truly did not deserve.

If the scoring had been done properly, he would have received the Silver not the Gold. He should let that fact guide his decision.

No. If the scoring had truly been done properly, the S. Korean would have been scored lower than he already was. THe judges missed a MANDATORY 2 tenths deduction in his parallel bars routine. Even with the correct start value, his score would have been lower than it was.

The results would have stood exactly as they are now if the scoring had been done properly.

Eta: LOL, snoopy, you and I are in the same threads, posting the same things at the same time.

 

[Jenn Lynn]

Originally posted by ripleysmom
I originally answered that I had no opinion.

That being said, if it were me I think that I would not want to keep a medal that I truly did not deserve.

If the scoring had been done properly, he would have received the Silver not the Gold. He should let that fact guide his decision.

He DOES deserve it because there were 2 mistakes on the part of the judges. One that didn't give the Korean a high enough start value. The other was an error the Korean made that they did not catch. Even if he had the correct start value. He still made the mistake and he would not have won (everything else being the same.)

Paul should not give it back nor should he share.

 

[Miss Jasmine]

Originally posted by snoopy
Actually, now that I learned that through reviewing the tape the Korean actually had mistakes that he was not penalized for, I not only do not think that Hamm should give the medal back, I don't think he should share it, either.

I am sure if you went back and reviewed tape of ALL the performances you would find deductions that were not made that should have been made, and deductions that should not have been made that were made. The Start Value is something that you can't just dismiss.

Share the gold or at least make some gesture of goodwill.

I think like ripleysmom.

 

[theSurlyMermaid]

Originally posted by Miss Jasmine
I am sure if you went back and reviewed tape of ALL the performances you would find deductions that were not made that should have been made, and deductions that should not have been made that were made. The Start Value is something that you can't just dismiss.

Share the gold or at least make some gesture of goodwill.

I think like ripleysmom.

Exactly. So if you want to start going back after a meet is over and changing things, you may as well have the whole thing on slo-mo video. That's not what anyone wants to happen.

Or you can accept that judges screw up just like other humans. You should not make allowances for one mistake and not any others.

The results should stand. At this point it would hardly be "goodwill". People will just say Hamm was pressured into giving up his medal by the rabid media and that will be 100% true.

 

[Miss Jasmine]

surlymermaid, the problem here isn't a deduction it is a start value. If it was a deduction I would have no issue, the start value makes it different for me. It may not for you, and hey that's ok, too.

 

[theSurlyMermaid]

I know, MissJasmine.


I just wonder where we can draw the line.

After all, when Sale/Pelletier were awarded a second gold in figure skating, impropriety was the reason, even though no proof was ever found (the french judge changed her story). But that isn't going to stop anyone and everyone with a judging beef from filing protests, and appeals and whatever else they can do, improriety or not. It's happening here in a big way.

I guess my point is, no one is going to abide by these distinctions in the future when lodging protests, or complaining about results. All people will see is if they yell loudly enough, they can get results changed, medals awarded, whatever they want. It isn't going to stop here, it's going to get worse and worse. You have to draw the line. That's why they have rules. And one of those rules is you do not go back after a meet and change things. It's opening a huge can of worms. But now that the FIG broke their own rules and reviewed the tapes AFTER the meet, look how many more protests there were in men's gymnastics alone:

All-Around protest by S. Korea.
Rings protest by the Bulgarians (already denied)
Vault protest by Canadians
High bar protest by Russia


Russia is now protesting the women's All-Around results as well.


So whatever one might say about the start value error being so integral to the final score that a breaking of the rules is justified, it won't end there. Next time it will be other deductions, and other complaints.

Whether or not you think a start value error is more costly than the 2 tenths mandatory deduction is really subjective anyway. If the judges had started the routine at the 10.0 that does NOT mean he would have automatically scored a tenth higher. They may well have deducted from somewhere else to get him at the score they wanted. It's a brutal fact in gymnastics. Does anyone know how they arrive at their deductions? No.

 

[AC7179]

Going to a videotape is NOT ALLOWED in gymnastics, period. You can argue that it should be.....but that's a decesion that he FIG would have to make.

Even if it were allowed, like others have said, the South Korean should have received a mandatory .2 of a point deduction because of the extra hold element. This is actually more nonnegotiable than the start value issue, because it is a specific rule, that no matter what, you are penalized for having the extra hold. How fair is it to go to video and say, "You're right, the start value was too low, we are going to award you the gold medal!" and ignore the fact that there was ANOTHER mandatory deduction that was not taken? At that point, if the South Korean won the gold, could Paul Hamm protest, and have the officials go BACK to the videotape and look at the hold deduction? I don't see why not, which would have the gold medal going from Paul, to the South Korean, back to Paul again.

Ultimately, it is all the judges fault, and a very, very sad situation during what should be the happiest week of Paul Hamm's life.

 

[snoopy]

Originally posted by AC7179
Ultimately, it is all the judges fault, and a very, very sad situation during what should be the happiest week of Paul Hamm's life.

And thats the bottom line. Why people feel this hard working athlete should be penalized or guilted into giving back and award he won fair and square is beyond me.