PAP discount drops to 10%

[wayneg]

Just read this, not happy as the 20% benefit was one of the reasons we bought PAP's, http://www.orlandosentinel.com/the-...annual-pass-discount-20121227,0,6632953.story

As another thread has been discussing is Disney/Orlando outpricing itself?

We have been loyal visitors since 1993, around 30 trips.

When we started doing free DDP/OKW in 2009 we paid £80/night, this year its around £150/nt (latest offer has also dropped to QSDDP)

Not many years ago we could get direct flights under £500pp in summer now they are nearer £1,000pp

We have a trip planned in April where we will end up in Orlando to use our PAP's before they expire but I think that is it for a while. Hate to say it but I think its time to take a break this summer and look elsewhere.

 

[wilma-bride]

Hate to say it, Wayne, but this is fairly 'old' news

DVC members have been moaning about this for a few weeks now, since it was announced. DVC offered members a sweet deal, where you could buy a PAP for $300 off but then reduced the disocunt to 10%. Some unhappy DVC members. Personally, I am happy that I got a PAP for less than the price of an AP but got to admit that the 20% would have been a nice bonus on top.

 

[Elise79]

Disney and the airlines are just doing what they should - trying to make as much money as they can for their shareholders. Do I like it? Not really but there's nothing I can do to change it.

With Disney the reducing of the discounts/offers was to be expected - it was announced maybe 18 months/ 2 years ago that they wanted to wean people off them.

We booked the DDP OKW deal for next summer as we are out of points - when I worked it out it has cost me around the same as renting DVC points plus on top I have the DP plus a $200 gift card! To me that's still a good deal I think they have just stopped trying to "give it away" and actually make some money.

We currently have PAP but like Joh being DVC members meant they cost me less than a regular AP. We did the waters parks 1 day last summer so it isn't usually worth the cost difference however the change in discount doesn't really bother me as we don't buy that much "stuff" anymore. DD gets a T-shirt and a stuffed toy and that's about it!

I know that in all of this the economy still sucks (I am accountant so see it everyday - people's earning reducing etc) but Disney is a luxury holiday - and it you want to see expensive price up DLRP!

 

[wayneg]

Hate to say it, Wayne, but this is fairly 'old' news

Not seen anything about it but I don't read anything beyond UKTP.

Disney and the airlines are just doing what they should - trying to make as much money as they can for their shareholders. Do I like it? Not really but there's nothing I can do to change it.

But there is a point where they cut too much and lose too many customers. They need to attract new customers not squeeze more out of loyal customers or they leave.

 

[london75]

Just opinion rather than fact but I speculated last year that the target market is shifting to booming economies such as South American countries after returning from seeing so many Brazilians and Venezuelans with so many shopping bags.

Why offer us discounts when there are hundred of millions of untapped wallets and purses.

Bear in mind as repeat visitors we are probably comparatively frugal compared to first time visitors.

We'll be back but I think it's going to be 2 years out of three now timed to use an AP twice. Which in itself perpetuates the previous point about frugality.

I will miss it this year, we had designs on moving there once upon a time, however, I think we'll be off to Canada at some point instead. Near enough but far enough if you know what I mean.

 

[chmurf]

Not seen anything about it but I don't read anything beyond UKTP.

It was in the DIS information station newsletter a while back, didn't you subscribe ?

Now we need to consider that we are no longer the "preferred target" for the WDW market.

As was said, new south american economies offer new guests.
Very few of them will buy APs, plus most of them move in tour groups.

Even though people from the UK represent a fairly large number of guests, it takes a hardcore disney fan like Wayne, or a DVC owner, to get an AP.
Most of us will go once a year, and we have 14 or 21 days ultimate tickets.
Even with a 20% discount, it took between $2500 and $3000 worth of purchases to get even (upgrading from ultimate to PAP) most of us don't spend that much in the stores (only way to make it work was maybe getting the TIW and get the dining discounts, but irrelevant for us who target free dining)

Price hikes were made even more hard on us because the Quid went down.
Wayne told us about the price of one night in OKW in 2009 but 2009 prices were indexed on the 2008 quid which was worth $2, now we're barely at $1.6 that's a huge loss of buying power, and it multiplies the price hikes.

The result is that we moved offsite. And that move was (I think) welcomed by Disney, because onsite hotel rooms were now freed and available for customers willing and able to pay more. (new booming economies)
(that's from a UK/Europe point of view)

The absolute "coup de grace" for us would be that they cut the ultimate tickets and have us get MYW tickets.
That's when I'll consider not going back as often.

But one thing is for sure, I'm not going back to DLRP (even though I used to be a Dreams AP holder) That's a place where Disney is overexpensive. And the service is apalling and most CMs there probably wouldn't last a week in WDW before being fired.

 

[wayneg]

It was in the DIS information station newsletter a while back, didn't you subscribe ?

But one thing is for sure, I'm not going back to DLRP (even though I used to be a Dreams AP holder) That's a place where Disney is overexpensive. And the service is apalling and most CMs there probably wouldn't last a week in WDW before being fired.

Never knew there was a newsletter

No intentions of going to DLRP. Seriously considering visiting other areas of the US and giving Disney/Orlando a break.

 

[wilma-bride]

Never knew there was a newsletter

You give us moderators a bad name (neither did I)

 

[london75]

But one thing is for sure, I'm not going back to DLRP (even though I used to be a Dreams AP holder) That's a place where Disney is overexpensive. And the service is apalling and most CMs there probably wouldn't last a week in WDW before being fired.

Ah, don't say that, after realising we couldn't afford Florida, we're going to DLRP this year after not going for 3 years. I remember it being pretty atrocious when you were fresh from WDW but once you set your customer service expectations lower it is a nice park.

Is it not worth a visit now?

 

[wayneg]

You give us moderators a bad name (neither did I)

There is also a box on main page I used to look at with latest updates/info. For weeks now all I see is a blank box. I have tried updating everything but still blank

 

[luchamouse]

The American economy is picking up again, so maybe they don't feel the need to lure us over with discounts and free dining

We're now an every other year family. We're tied into school holiday too, so taking 5 across the pond is scary pricey.

I still love it though, and seeing as my dh will not set foot in DLRP ever again, I have no other way of getting my fix!

 

[london75]

I still love it though, and seeing as my dh will not set foot in DLRP ever again, I have no other way of getting my fix!

Can I ask why? You didn't go first when it was cold and/or wet and following a trip to WDW did you?

We did and hated it but gave it another chance for a week in August when the weather was lovely. We stayed offsite in the Marriott vacation homes which were tremendous and better than most of the onsite while still only 5 minutes away. Both me and the DW much preferred it when warmer and not onsite.

Once you know about the rude people, lack of respect for queues, slow food and smokers, it's quite a nice place to visit.

 

[Jacqui8374]

Long time lurker here who is now bothring to post!! This last year when I went in august/september (been going for 30 years at least annually) I bought a bi costal pass instead of an annual as I am going to cali in april for my birthday. Really liked the 20% discount and had more or less decided it was worth a pap in august to get it - well you know whats coming I dont use the water parks so back to a normal ap obviously!! I do think disney is now price gouging I love disney delux resorts but this coming year I am going to stay in either the best westrn or the hoton lake buena vista I go for a month and its just not worth the money
Jacqui

 

[chmurf]

Is it not worth a visit now?

It's always worth visiting a Disney Park.

TBH I know my opinion is biaised (you don't do WDW twice a year without beginning to have very high expectations about service)

I don't want to turn this thread into a DLRP rant, but I still owe you a clarification
My main concern is about CMs who, for a vast majority don't belong in a Disney Park.
Ok, look at those elderly CMs in WDW who work their a***s off to please the guests, and now look at this 19yr old CM in DLRP who spend his day ranting about the low wages and hard work (saying hello is hard work in his book) with another CM in front of the guests, and for whom the main priority is not the guy smoking in the line, but female guest's behinds
now you know why I don't like DLRP
and that's on top of things I don't want to discuss here.

I'll just add :
3 nights at Sequioa Lodge in october with park tickets : over 1000€ (discounted) that's £850 for 2 adults 1 kid. £283 per night.
6 nights at port orleans same period with 7 days tickets AND free QSDP : £1280 or £213 per night.

WDW is much cheaper, with convinient transportation, dining, more things to see, a Downtown where there is actually something to see, unlike the village in DLP)

of course there is the airline fee which is becoming more and more unaffordable.

rant over, sorry

 

[london75]

That's fine, we've experienced those things and come to expect them too, there was a rumour late last year Disney would take over DLRP and stamp it's mark and while an outside bet, if they did that and built the third park it would be a real destination for Europeans. Maybe the price hikes for WDW will feed into driving demand to Europe. These people are not stupid and they'll have models that factor things like that in.

Send Europeans to Paris to build demand all year round which is what the park needs for any kind of expansions to happen.

 

[luchamouse]

London75, I don't want to rant either, but we had such bad episodes with CMs and other guests, we just couldn't go back.

Lowlight was Stitch shoving my son away in Cafe Mickey even though he was at our table and supposed to be autographing ds's book.

Weather was nice, but not Florida hot. I feld that Studios seemed like an industrial park more than a theme park, but that's just personal. The main park is really beautiful.

Also, we proportionally spent more.

 

[london75]

Now that does sound worse than last time we were there.

It's a toss up between stay in Paris and have a couple of trips to DLRP or stay near (but not in) DLRP and have a couple of trips into Paris. I think the former is sounding good now!

Before kids we used to go to Paris every year oblivious to Disney and used to love it, I don't know what there is to do for kids but maybe some research is required.

 

[chmurf]

Send Europeans to Paris to build demand all year round which is what the park needs for any kind of expansions to happen.

DLRP is already the #1 destination in Europe.
Can you believe that there is about the same number of guests visiting DLP and MK each year ? (roughly 16 millions each)
DLRP's policy has been to make deals and special offers very often. There are too many people in that park, and the rides are far from reliable and the place does not absord guests as well as MK (there are less characters for example, and if guests are not waiting in line for characters they're in line for rides. So with the same crowd number, the crowd level seems much higher in DLRP

There is no way they can accomodate more guests (except in low season, midweek)

They need to expand, but expansion requires money. To get this money they try to have more guests in the park, but more guests mean more maintenance, and with discounted tickets, it's not even enough to compensate the maintenance overhead, and far from being enough to pay for the loans and the royalties DLRP pays to TWDC

If DLRP had not been a disney park, it probavly would have been long closed, like so many theme parks in Europe.

 

[Magic Megadegs]

But one thing is for sure, I'm not going back to DLRP (even though I used to be a Dreams AP holder) That's a place where Disney is overexpensive. And the service is apalling and most CMs there probably wouldn't last a week in WDW before being fired.

Agree completely re DLRP, went once, got royally ripped off, service was dreadful and felt no magic (the whole reason we go). People walked round with cigarettes held at toddler heat height, never again (although I'm sure if has improved since 2007).

People will always find the money to go to Disney as for many it is a bit of an addiction (people always find the money for their other addictions) the reduction will be in the number of times they visit. It is very expensive, will we still go? Yes, just not as often as we would like x

 

[chmurf]

(although I'm sure if has improved since 2007).

It's been going on the downward slope ever since 1992

The only thing that's new since a few years is that there are now people begging at the exit of the park. They ask guests who're leaving for their tickets. Some guests who leave the area do accept.
With those tickets those people (sometimes families with children - they send kids or young teens to beg - not mentionning origins to avoid breaking the forum rules) enter the parks and beg or steal inside the park (until security lead them out of the park)

Recently we've seen things like guests letting their kids pee on store walls, even in the Castle's moat

OK I'll stop here. As a French guy I'm ashamed to have such a park in my country
enough said.