Panda Ramblings, Race Eating

windwalker

I need an Adventure
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Dec 28, 2006
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Racing and Eating

People involved with firearms have had a debate going for a hundred years about what is better a little bullet that goes really fast or a big bullet going slower. Same goes for getting advice about what to eat before, during and after a half or full marathon. You have completely different points of view.

Some people will tell you that if you eat anything before a race it needs to be very light and at least an hour before. Other people can be seen chugging a sports drink to wash down a bagel just a few minutes before the race starts. Other people look like they are going on a grand adventure with their belt filled with special foods and drinks that are "Scientifically developed", for optimal performance.

During a race it's the same thing, some people have special fluids, gels, Goos and food to eat along the way. I've seen everything from peanut butter sandwiches to beef jerky being eaten on the move.

I'm going to give you my take on this subject. I was a competitive runner for over 30 years and a race walker after that. In addition I worked with a lot of military personnel, helping them get in shape to pass their required fitness tests and athletes training for competition. So I have some opinions derived from experience and trial and error.

My personal pre competition meal is a cereal like Special K or Cheerios, with a banana cut up on top and skim milk, I add a glass of water and a cup of coffee. I'll eat this about 2 hours before start time. I eat and drink that far ahead for a couple of reasons. 1. I want the meal digested and not sitting in my stomach. A meal eaten shortly before you start will still be pretty much there when you finish your race, so it really didn't do you any good because your body had to channel blood to your stomach for digestion of that meal and that means some of the blood that would have gone to your muscles has gone to digestion instead.

A runner because of the bouncing has more problem with stomach distress than a walker so it's even more important for a runner not to have a belly full of undigested food. My number 2. reason is that I don't want to have extra potty breaks. Your body uses the water and other fluids for a lot of purposes. One important use is to clean out the waste from the cells and send the "Sewer water" out as urine. This is important since your body is removing lactic acid from the exercise effort. But starting the race with your stomach full of water will just cause you to have to make a pit stop soon after you start when the potties along the way are the most crowded.

During the race you use an average of 100 calories per mile. In a half marathon you really don't need to eat anything. You have more than 1300 calories already stored in your body for use. Just drinking the sports drinks will supply you with plenty of extra calories along the way. Sports drinks are a good idea because they have the salts and sugars to replace what your using. The food in your stomach from a pre race feast is just going to sit there and make you uncomfortable.

In a marathon you do need to keep your calories coming in but not with food, once again you need the sports drinks for fluid replacement and the salts and sugars. But it doesn't hurt to use a gel or Goo if you have used then in training and they sit well with you. I will eat several banana halves during a marathon and toward the end I'll have a couple of gels and maybe a bag of sports beans. When you don't eat a little along the way during the marathon you start really running out of energy somewhere between miles 18 and 22. A cup of sports drink at every water stop is a good idea and if you want to add a sugary product like a gel or Goo it's ok. But you don't need to eat a gel every mile! And once again real food will not be digested and supply energy unless your body sends that blood needed for muscle performance to digestion instead. A sugar product is for all intents and purposes pre digested.

Of course you want to drink a little water or sports drink at every water station. Dehydration will get you during the race long before you will starve to death. A good way to gauge your hydration level is to look at the color of your urine. If its dark yellow your getting dehydrated and if it's clear your ok. You want to go to the race with clear urine not dark yellow. You start a marathon dehydrated and your going to be in trouble before it's over and you probably won't finish.

After the race eating is pretty much up to you. But remember your body has just been challenged to a difficult task and it's weak. Avoiding strong drink and very spicy food is a good idea unless you want to be very uncomfortable. I like a few cold beers and something like baked fish or a pasta and chicken dish. Of course when you finish you want to drink a few bottles of water and or sports drink, your biggest challenge is dehydrating.

Thank you for reading.

Panda :hippie:
 
Thanks, Dave! Great advice here.

I've participated in quite a few halves lately and I still don't know what works best for me. I'm still experimenting. My problem is that I get nauseated at the end of a half-marathon. I feel faint and queasy. I've had to go to the Medic tents several times after a race because of this. After I lay down or sit for a spell, I'm OK. I'm wondering now if I'm eating and drinking too close to race time.

At the San Antonio half marathon that I did recently, I listened to Frank Shorter giving advice on preventing an upset stomach/indigestion during or after a race. He said he always takes an antacid before the race starts. So, I decided to take a pepcid (or something like that) the morning of the race. When I finished, I felt fine - stomach-wise (feet were a different story. Ha!). This was the first time I felt OK after a half in over a year. The next week (this past weekend), I did the Tulsa Route 66 half and took the pepcid again. This time I felt a little sickish but not much...not like what I had experienced in other races. Now, I don't know if the pepcid helped any or if I just ate better before the race. I just know that I didn't feel the nausea I've felt after so many races.

As for your advice, I'm going to try it and see if I can get it to work for me. It sounds good to me! :thumbsup2
 
Susie, some of your discomfort may have come from the fact that the races were in such a different area from where you live. I know some people had problems with the Nashville since it so much hotter than where they lived and very hilly.

I hope others read about your possible cure it sounds like a good idea.

Dave:hippie:
 
Great advice as always Dave!

Are there any other foods like bananas - easy to digest, quick source of energy? I'm probably the only runner who doesn't like bananas.
 

Good info Dave. I'd like to add just a couple things.

One, do not take a sports drink and GU at same time. Gus/gels need to be washed down with water.

Two, I sometimes have problems with full strength Gatorade at the stations so I'll grab a cup of water, take a sip, then dilute the sports drink with the water. Makes it easier on my stomach (however I have found nothing helps me with Cytomax...never sits well).

Three, personally I need to eat before any long distance even a half. Since races are normally real early, I've eaten dinner earlier than normal the night before so I wake up hungry. If I don't eat, I get nauseas and a splitting headache certainly not the way to go into any event. I like oatmeal with wheat germ and some fruit along with my coffee a couple hours ahead of time. I found that if I have a long wait between breakfast and race start, it works for me to pack a half PB&J to have while hanging out. DH downs an expresso GU right beforehand.

Four, hydration, hydration, hydration!! Needs to start the beginning of the week, not the day before for best outcome.

Five, I read somewhere that it's best to get some sort of protein and carb in your system w/in the first hour after a race to help the muscles repair. I have found EAS shakes to work for me. Easy on stomach but gets my body what it needs w/o having to digest solids. And again, hydrate.

Be sure to test out eating/drinking if you haven't already. Do not want to try a new breakfast the day of an event or new eating during one. Need to go into it knowing what works for you.

And that brings me to my last thing - you have to find what works for you. I've taken advice from all kinds of sources and over time have figured out what works for me and you need to do the same. Except for the hydration - no exceptions. :-)
 
Do you like chocolate???

I eat Cocochia doublr chocolate bar, by living fuel. Just before the race starts.
Whe I wake up I have a soya yog.
 
Great advice as always Dave!

Are there any other foods like bananas - easy to digest, quick source of energy? I'm probably the only runner who doesn't like bananas.

Vicky - I know kiwis are a great source of potassium like bananas but not sure about portability.
 
Thanks for the info!


Susie - I have severe nausea issues after races - by mile 10 during a half, I'm miserable, and just not moving very well. Done my time in medical tents too! I'm going to try your suggestion this Sunday for the Seattle Half. Thanks for mentioning it!

As for me - I have wheat toast with peanut butter prior to a race. I PUSH liquids......
 
I want to add a couple things here.

Dave is correct that you may not need nutrition during a half if you are not pushing effort too hard. If you are operating near the upper aerobic edge (where you can only say maybe 3-5 short words per breath) you do need CHO (carb) supplementation. The difference is that the higher you operate in your aerobic zone the more glycogen (CHO) you burn. Still burning lots of fat but you are adding CHO to the fire at a faster rate. I would not wait to I felt hungry before taking in a nutrition supplement.

Science suggests that you really should supplement for events (training and racing) lasting longer than an hour. You should start somewhere around 45 minutes into the event and then every 45 minutes thereafter. This is a rule of thumb period that is anywhere from 30-75 minutes. Supplementation should only be about 100 Kcal and be an easily digested CHO. Gels are one of the better supplements as they carry a blend of CHO and electrolytes aimed to keep your system balanced. This is not to say that other forms are not just as good though I really would not go for ‘regular’ candy. It’s full of simple sugars and carries no electrolytic component.

As mentioned above avoid gelling (or any supplementation) and taking in a sport drink at the same aid stop. Do take a cup or two of water. One before and one after works well. You are attempting to get some liquid into the gut before the solid (gel) hits then wash down any residue that could create a mucus flow. Also, since sport drink carries an electrolytic component you could have too many electrolytes in the gut at once. This will cause the body to throw water into the digestive system and essentially dehydrate muscle tissue as a result. The other side effect is gut lock where you literally hear sloshing in the stomach or worse the need to expel what the body sees as a foreign substance.

It is a great idea to cut sport drink with water at races. You do not necessarily have to play mad scientist with your cups. Cups are generally half to a third full (done to allow runners to double bend the top of the cup to facilitate drinking on the run and not inhaling the drink) and you can do the mixing in your mouth on the run.

I read ‘push’ hydration. This is a slippery slope. We all must hydrate during a half and full event. The old rule was drink water and drink often. Not necessarily the case. Through training we should have an idea of our personal sweat rates. If you don’t, before your next run weigh yourself before dressing. Note the weight. Dress and go for your long run. When you come back – and before rehydrating or taking in a post run recovery meal/drink -- strip down, dry off and reweigh. You should weigh about the same as you did pre-run plus or minus 2% (that’s only plus or minus 3 pounds for a 150 pound runner and 4 pounds for a 200 pounder). If you weigh less than that you are not hydrating as well as you should. You are losing performance – even if you are the walker talking with the sweep cyclist. You need to log temperatures and weight loss with all log runs to get a picture of who you are with regards to sweating. On the other hand if you gain weight you are over hydrating. This is just as bad if not worse than dehydrating. Over hydrating – hyponatremia – is literally too low sodium component in your blood stream. For marathoners it comes from over hydrating and not managing electrolytic intake (sport drink) during the event. Here’s the scary part – in a triage setting, dehydration and hyponatremia present the same symptoms. An untrained tech may push a saline drip without realizing that they are compounding the situation. Today (as opposed to 10 years ago) the med staffs are better trained to look for both from a marathon participant.
Just remember that a gallon of water weighs 8 pounds (really 8.5 ish but 8 works better for in head math) . So for every pound off you are you should adjust an eighth of a gallon -- or a pint of water. Remember that during the race drinks come in 8 oz paper cups filled about half way meaning you are taking in about 4 oz of water or sport drink for each cup.
This is my long winded way to say you really need to hydrate straight down the middle; not too much or not too little; and this comes through training.
 
Good point on the hydration Charles. It is hard to find that perfect line. I can speak from experience on the over hydrating. Did it once during a training run and once again during a half. Bloated, dizzy, sick to stomach..not pleasant.

Since my long runs involve driving at least 30 min, I can't do the weigh before/after and I sweat big time.
 
Let me clarify a bit. I push hydration in the days leading up to a race. The morning of a race, I am too excited to take too much in - liquid-wise. I'll try to get in a full glass of water, and then not much until the first water stop.

So - another question - when I had a really hard time (Disneyland Half) with the nausea - drinking water made it worse. Is it possible, then, that I was taking in too much?

Afterwards, when I sat down (enjoying my new medal!) I polished off another bottled water - felt pretty darned horrible!
 
Good point on the hydration Charles. It is hard to find that perfect line. I can speak from experience on the over hydrating. Did it once during a training run and once again during a half. Bloated, dizzy, sick to stomach..not pleasant.

Since my long runs involve driving at least 30 min, I can't do the weigh before/after and I sweat big time.

Try running for just an hour out of the house if possbile - it will give you an hourly rate.
 
To me it sounds like you needed to have electrolytic and not water.
Too much water will give you the sick, moving around of water in your tummy feeling.

I'm the odd one out as I take electrolytic and shots together and find it helps!!!!
I carry fizzy water and electrolytic drink and go between both, I just seem to know when to have either and I use blocks as well, but I do not eat any real food either during a training run or race.
 
Let me clarify a bit. I push hydration in the days leading up to a race. The morning of a race, I am too excited to take too much in - liquid-wise. I'll try to get in a full glass of water, and then not much until the first water stop.

So - another question - when I had a really hard time (Disneyland Half) with the nausea - drinking water made it worse. Is it possible, then, that I was taking in too much?

Afterwards, when I sat down (enjoying my new medal!) I polished off another bottled water - felt pretty darned horrible!

I really didn't mean to throw stones.... just saw the word push and knew a quick read of the chain could lead one to think more = better.

For the DL Half how hard were you running? were you only able to say just a couple words per breath? The next morning were your leg muscles more sore than normal after a training run (kind of to thr point that a thumb pushing into the belly of the muscle would put you in scream mode)? Were you gelling/eating differently during the event? Notice that your legs felt shakey?


Since this is hitting late in the race and if some of these fit you may be experiencing low blood sugar levels. This is the result of burning glycogen in the legs to the point where they have depleted thir reserves and cannot take in what they need to keep working. It happens a lot in the gym when folks do a heavy leg day. You do your second to the last or last set of squats (or other all leg workout) and within a minute of stopping you feel the urge to purge or even worse the lights just go out.

Look at your level of effort - make sure you reamin conversational during your run. Look at your nutrition intake. You could stand to eat just a little more pre-race.

The tums idea is above is good to negate some of the latate build up in the blood stream

ALso, anxiety may be playing a role. Usually race day jitters will create the situation early in the race but you never know.

Hope this helps some.
 
Charles - no worries! I welcome any input, and realize that too much hydration can be incredibly dangerous....

I've had this issue a couple of times - and I should point out that I'm a walker. (and I'm over 50, carry a few extra pounds....well, you get the picture) I can keep a 15 minute per mile pace, up until this kind of stuff hits. Now - I should point out too that walking is hard for me - due to a back problem, my left side has general loss of feeling and weakness. It just plain is hard for me to go the distance. (but I'm stubborn)


I've been working on my endurance, not necessarily weight loss - was hoping that would happen anyway. So - at that point at Disneyland, I was sweating really badly and just plain having a hard time. I can't say that I could have carried on a conversation then.

I don't remember soreness - really - any more than normal. I know that I have a hard time sleeping the night after a race - maybe that's why?

I'll try to put in a bit more before the race, and try the antacid as well.


Thanks so much!
 
Hey guys thanks for the input. I love when you guys pick up the discussion and we can have a real learning and sharing of experience session.

Dave:hippie:
 
Charles - no worries! I welcome any input, and realize that too much hydration can be incredibly dangerous....

I've had this issue a couple of times - and I should point out that I'm a walker. (and I'm over 50, carry a few extra pounds....well, you get the picture) I can keep a 15 minute per mile pace, up until this kind of stuff hits. Now - I should point out too that walking is hard for me - due to a back problem, my left side has general loss of feeling and weakness. It just plain is hard for me to go the distance. (but I'm stubborn)


I've been working on my endurance, not necessarily weight loss - was hoping that would happen anyway. So - at that point at Disneyland, I was sweating really badly and just plain having a hard time. I can't say that I could have carried on a conversation then.

I don't remember soreness - really - any more than normal. I know that I have a hard time sleeping the night after a race - maybe that's why?

I'll try to put in a bit more before the race, and try the antacid as well.


Thanks so much!

I would focus my weekday runs on hills and leg turnover, if you can. Building overall strength is a sure way to lower muscle stress on race day. Think of it as only being able to curl 15 pounds the first day in a gym. Work on strength for a few weeks and before you know it you are curling 35 pounds. Now all things being equal if you maove at a 15 minute pace on the lower strength muscle you are pushing individual muscle fibers to a point where endurance will fall off within a short amount of time. If those muscles were stronger, the the fiber stress levels would be lower, the muscle would be more aerobic and endurance greater. (A real simple explanation on a complex issue).

Hope this helps.
 
This is a Great Thread! Thanks Dave.
Lots of information. I will need to re-read all the post and copy some.

I am having problems with the nausea after a half-

I eat whole wheat toast or a mini bagle with Peanut butter prior to any walk over 5-miles. I GU every hour-if I wait longer I can feel the muscle tiredness set in and it takes too long to recover. I have started using diluted Gatorade on my long walks. It seems to help.
 
Thank you for this thread, I need help :goodvibes

I am 35 (as of this month) married and the mother of 4 children, so I am abit busy (nothing more than other parents). Medically, I had cervial surgery on my neck on 7/29/09 so I have a plate and 6 screws and 2 cadaver bones and also fused from C4 to C7..........no biggie I am doing great;) I had an amazing surgeon.

My background is this, I have been running off and on for the past 3 years. However - in February of last year my neck really started taking a turn for the worse, so I stopped running - hence surgery in July.

Since 2 months post-op I have been able to run/walk only 3 times a week. With the 29th being my 4 month post-op mark I am able to start training for the princess 1/2 (which I am so excited for its my first).

My best time so far is 37:30 for 3.1 miles (of course there is about a 1/2 block of walking thrown in there;))

I am confused about running plans to start training for the 1/2. I have marathoning for mortals which has a 14 week running 1/2 plan, but only 3 days are running ........... looks odd, i cant see how that plan will help me run a whole 1/2.

I looked a H.Holdgen and his plan is 12 weeks and 4 days a week running plan, how do I know what plan is for me to be able to run the whole 1/2.

I do have a goal of a 2:30 finish time though, crazy?

sorry to be a pain, just looking for a mentor to help me through this -- as some people have only be at this marathoning for less than 2 years, and I am looking for guidance from a more seasoned runner since you have seen it all :rotfl: (including a crazy woman like me)

thanks a million!!
 
Thank you for this thread, I need help :goodvibes

I am 35 (as of this month) married and the mother of 4 children, so I am abit busy (nothing more than other parents). Medically, I had cervial surgery on my neck on 7/29/09 so I have a plate and 6 screws and 2 cadaver bones and also fused from C4 to C7..........no biggie I am doing great;) I had an amazing surgeon.

My background is this, I have been running off and on for the past 3 years. However - in February of last year my neck really started taking a turn for the worse, so I stopped running - hence surgery in July.

Since 2 months post-op I have been able to run/walk only 3 times a week. With the 29th being my 4 month post-op mark I am able to start training for the princess 1/2 (which I am so excited for its my first).

My best time so far is 37:30 for 3.1 miles (of course there is about a 1/2 block of walking thrown in there;))

I am confused about running plans to start training for the 1/2. I have marathoning for mortals which has a 14 week running 1/2 plan, but only 3 days are running ........... looks odd, i cant see how that plan will help me run a whole 1/2.

I looked a H.Holdgen and his plan is 12 weeks and 4 days a week running plan, how do I know what plan is for me to be able to run the whole 1/2.

I do have a goal of a 2:30 finish time though, crazy?

sorry to be a pain, just looking for a mentor to help me through this -- as some people have only be at this marathoning for less than 2 years, and I am looking for guidance from a more seasoned runner since you have seen it all :rotfl: (including a crazy woman like me)

thanks a million!!


Hey, sorry to hear about the neck issues. Glad to see you aout and about. No need to be confused about training plans. There are as many perfect plans as there are runners. We are all an experiment of one. In other words, what works for me will not necessarily work well for you.

As background, the two plans referenced will both get you to the line; healthy and capable of reaching 13.1 and able to smile for the finish photo. If you were not coming off this surgery I would without doubt say at 35 running four days a weeks will help with speed and endurance getting you to the line. However, I would caution that you are still healing to some extent and will be for quite a while. If you were to walk into my studio we would discuss 3 run options until you demonstrated a third weekday run would work well for you. As a general rule of thumb I would take a day or two off of running as a runner matures or is coming off injury. It is a fine line that will take you being honest with yourself as you get into training.

I would say that you are more than capable of running a sub 2-hour half on a three day training plan if you run each run with a purpose. I would run a tough hill workout one of the weekday runs and a speed or shorter hill interval workout the other, reserving the weekend runs for you long slow endurance running. We would also hit cardio crosstraining on three other days – anything that keeps you away from the jarring motion of running.

At your current level of fitness (and it WILL improve) you are looking at a 2:45 – 3:00 half. Not bad by any sense of imagination. As a benchmark to run a 2:30 half you should be able to race about a 32:30 5k. Again a purposed training plan where you are working on strength and speed during the week can drop this 5 minutes off the 5k.

Have fun in your training and let me know if you have questions.
 












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