OT: who is at fault?

[tinkarooni]

Hey there, claims adjuster for homeowners insurance policies here. Yes OP your insurance may very well cover this and will than go after (Subrogate) against the at fault parties here. The at fault parties here are the neighbors and the tent company. The tent company is a professional in their field who was hired due to their tent installing expertise. It is their job to make sure when they are installing a tent that they do not cause damage. If they make a client sign a contract that says they need to mark all underground lines they are than clearly making the client aware of potential hazards. OP however was not made aware of potential hazards and can not be made responsible for not marking her underground lines as the professionals who entered onto her property to do so did not make her aware. Secondly the neighbors are at fault because they did not inform the tent professionals that they were entering onto a different homeowners property if it was not already obvious. The neighbor also should have passed the warning of underground lines to the OP as they were obviously made aware of it as they signed a contract containing it. From the details relayed here OP would not have any legal liability in this matter. She does not install tents for a living and did not sign a contract outling the installation and the potential hazards of same.

There now I think the neighbors are completely out of line. They should have been over there immediately to apologize, should have called their own homeowners insurance (although it's probably not covered there) should have filed a claim with the tent installers insurance and should have promised to made it right and than done so.

However OP, I never would have agreed.....a PP already pointed out if somebody tripped and fell breaking their leg or whatever you would be on the hook, sickening but true.

 

[HappyDznyCamper]

This http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Subrogation is what I was thinking of when I suggested that southbarringtonjen call her own homeowner's insurance company.

I couldn't think of the word before!

This is the right way to proceed if the tent company/neighbor still refuse to pay. Even before you have an answer from either you need to contact your homeowners insurance agent. Call tomorrow and explain the situation, they may send out an adjuster and cut you a check, then they will go after the other parties involved on your behalf, but you will be "made whole" long before it goes to litigation.

 

[here757]

I'm pretty sure ZuZugal's post was meant tongue in cheek and not rude. Have a sense of humor already. Jeez....

I doubt budgeting and penny pinching is high on the list of "the rich."

jeez.. i am a very good sense of humor.. to bad it doesnt transalate well over the net huh? LOL

 

[ZuZugal]

I'm pretty sure ZuZugal's post was meant tongue in cheek and not rude. Have a sense of humor already. Jeez....

I doubt budgeting and penny pinching is high on the list of "the rich."

jeez.. i am a very good sense of humor.. to bad it doesnt transalate well over the net huh? LOL

Sorry if I offended.

It was meant very tongue in cheek!

 

[lovesmurfs]

I doubt budgeting and penny pinching is high on the list of "the rich."

I'd recommend you read the book "The Millionaire Next Door" by Stanley and Danko.

Those who are rich are rich because of careful management of their resources.

 

[rparmfamily]

Hey there, claims adjuster for homeowners insurance policies here. Yes OP your insurance may very well cover this and will than go after (Subrogate) against the at fault parties here. The at fault parties here are the neighbors and the tent company. The tent company is a professional in their field who was hired due to their tent installing expertise. It is their job to make sure when they are installing a tent that they do not cause damage. If they make a client sign a contract that says they need to mark all underground lines they are than clearly making the client aware of potential hazards. OP however was not made aware of potential hazards and can not be made responsible for not marking her underground lines as the professionals who entered onto her property to do so did not make her aware. Secondly the neighbors are at fault because they did not inform the tent professionals that they were entering onto a different homeowners property if it was not already obvious. The neighbor also should have passed the warning of underground lines to the OP as they were obviously made aware of it as they signed a contract containing it. From the details relayed here OP would not have any legal liability in this matter. She does not install tents for a living and did not sign a contract outling the installation and the potential hazards of same.

There now I think the neighbors are completely out of line. They should have been over there immediately to apologize, should have called their own homeowners insurance (although it's probably not covered there) should have filed a claim with the tent installers insurance and should have promised to made it right and than done so.

However OP, I never would have agreed.....a PP already pointed out if somebody tripped and fell breaking their leg or whatever you would be on the hook, sickening but true.

You are very useful to this thread LOL! Great info!

 

[here757]

Sorry if I offended.

It was meant very tongue in cheek!

LOL no biggy!

 

[here757]

only problem with the claim piece is the deductible.. might be 1000.. or even more if they have a percentage deductiable ...even if they get it back from other insurance company it can increase the rate .

people dont know that the insurance company will use not at fault accidents to increase your rate..
this would be deemed not at fault. cuz it was the neighbor. but if you have something eles happen later..

one wont.. but two will. and they stay around for 3-5 years

 

[disneybound31]

This is very eye-opening...we are a gated community and one of the nicest in our town not saying too awful much if you knew our town, lol) and this brings to light several scenarios I have never entertained in our 8+ years here.

 

[seashoreCM]

The OP said that they could put up a tent on their property. I don't think that the OP needs to be inconvenienced to the point where they need to be out there marking sprinkler lines......the OP was doing a big favor for the idiot neighbors. The neighbor caused damage to the sprinkler line....and they need to take care of it. It's just common sense and decency. The nerve of some people astounds me.

Also, if that's my neighbor, and they hit my sprinkler line....that was damaged by *their* tent....and I have to pay out of pocket to fix it....well, that's the end of me being a "friendly neighbor". The neighbor is an idiot not to realize that.

Although the OP should not be inconvenienced going out there marking the lines, the OP does have to pro-actively say something about the sprinkler lines.

"I don't have time to go out and mark the sprinkler lines but if the tent company can do that task so as not to damage them with the tent stakes then it is okay to have the tent come onto our property."

Or, applying the KISS principle,

"I'm afraid they might break my sprinkler lines and I don't have time to go mark the lines myself therefore I will have to say no. Maybe next time." Inviting a reply such as "I'll have the tent company find the lines before erecting the tent." at which time the neighbor has accepted the responsibility.

 

[here757]

honestly im a little shocked the neighbor didnt offer some help..
if it wasnt for the op.. their party might not have happened.

the op did them a favor

 

[Justsyd2]

I'm going to disagree here and say it was your fault.

Sprinkler lines are installed by a homeowner, not by a utility. Getting a "mark-out" of underground lines is only going to provide information on where gas/electric/cable/phone lines are, NOT those items that a homeowner has installed.

YOU knew you had sprinkler lines. YOU gave permission for the tent to come into your yard, and YOU should have known where your lines run (I have a sprinkler system...when they did the installation I followed them around and sketched the location of my underground lines for just this reason...so I'd KNOW where they are).

Sorry, but I think you should pay.

I agree with this, also. You should have known where your sprinkler lines were as your neighbor, the tent company, and the city would not/could not know.

 

[Belle & Ariel]

I think the tent company goofed big time in not getting a waiver from OP before erecting tent on her property. They are not released from liability to damage they cause.

I do not think it is OP's fault at all. It seems most here would not have thought about getting lines marked, or the potential damage. Furthermore, often homes in gated subdivisions have high turnover due to execs being relocated. We lived in one for 5 years and there were some homes that had 3 owners in the time we were there. I doubt they knew where the underground sprinklers were. I have no idea where mine runs here.

Good luck to OP.

 

[dd50]

I am of no help on the actual legality issue but common sense would say the neighbor should pay ASAP and then try and recoup/bicker with the tent company. The last people to be out should be you! NO good deed goes unpunished I guess!

That is how I see it. You were nice enough to say yes and then this.

 

[plummer925]

Our neighbor had a rather swanky outdoor party. The outside tent (think fancy air conditioned wedding reception type tent) was quite large. Our neighbors asked if half the tent could extend into our yard. We said fine. Well during setup one of the large spikes used to anchor his thing severed one of our sprinkler system lines.

Now the tent company says it is the renters responsibility to call the local authorities to come and spray paint utility lines. Which they did, but it was just for their yard obviously. So the tent company says it isn't their fault. Our neighbors say it wasn't their fault, they didn't cut the line the tent company did.

This is getting out of hand fast, and I imagine lawyers will be called Tuesday since this happened over the holiday weekend.

Part of this that is really bugging me is your terms "swanky" and "fancy air conditioned wedding reception type tent" - OP it's not YOU that is bugging me, I want to make that VERY clear. What's bugging me is that the neighbor obviously has money to blow. Why didn't the neighbor IMMEDIATELY pay for the repair and fight it out themselves with the company!? Sheesh. I also agree with a prior poster - good thing no one was hurt on your side!!!!

 

[southbarringtonjen]

Well we almost had this resolved. It was so close. Everything seemed to have been worked out regarding who was responsible for what percentage of damage. Unfortunately the tent company, or their insurance, or whoever was ultimately paying on their behalf wants to use the tent company employees to do the repairs. We of course will have our current contractor continue with the pool hard scape expansion and an actual sprinkler system company do that repair.

Throwing man power and money at the problem won't make it right. People who know how to set up a tent aren't suddenly stone craftsman and sprinkler guys. Now the sprinkler might be an easy fix, but who are we to know that. I'd like someone with at least 1 hour of experience to do the repair, not the guy whose previous sprinkler experience was severing the line.

So we are back at square one. I'm not used to all this traffic in my yard. I'm pretty sure one of the tent guys saw me topless this morning as I walked from my bedroom to the laundry room.

 

[vicki_c]

So we are back at square one. I'm not used to all this traffic in my yard. I'm pretty sure one of the tent guys saw me topless this morning as I walked from my bedroom to the laundry room.

LOL! Don't give them anything else for free!

Seriously, I hope you get it worked out - definitely does seem like the "no good deed goes unpunished thing".

 

[Scurvy]

Part of this that is really bugging me is your terms "swanky" and "fancy air conditioned wedding reception type tent" - OP it's not YOU that is bugging me, I want to make that VERY clear. What's bugging me is that the neighbor obviously has money to blow. Why didn't the neighbor IMMEDIATELY pay for the repair and fight it out themselves with the company!? Sheesh. I also agree with a prior poster - good thing no one was hurt on your side!!!!

Maybe the neighbor had money to blow, and they blew it on this event. The assumption that someone who buys something expensive must be rich always bothers me. The neighbors could have saved and budgeted to make this event happen, just as the OP might have saved and budgeted to be able to afford a sprinkler system. That doesn't mean that they necessarily have all sorts of money lying around.

That said, I'm appalled that the neighbors didn't immediately assure the OP that they'd do whatever necessary to make this right. Unless the neighbor or the tent people told the OP that the tent could damage the sprinkler, then the OP should not have to pay one penny for the repair work. OP, I agree completely that you need to have someone experienced in sprinkler installation and repair to do the work. Maybe the neighbors suggested the alternative in the hope that they'd get off cheaply and they'll step up and do the right thing once you refuse their current offer. Good luck!

Oh, and I have to say that this would be the last time I'd do anything to help these particular neighbors. Unless they are about to move away, they are idiots for not paying whatever it takes to fix the sprinkler just in the interest of maintaining good relations with you. Good neighbors are hard to find!

 

[windycitymom]

Well we almost had this resolved. It was so close. Everything seemed to have been worked out regarding who was responsible for what percentage of damage. Unfortunately the tent company, or their insurance, or whoever was ultimately paying on their behalf wants to use the tent company employees to do the repairs. We of course will have our current contractor continue with the pool hard scape expansion and an actual sprinkler system company do that repair.

Throwing man power and money at the problem won't make it right. People who know how to set up a tent aren't suddenly stone craftsman and sprinkler guys. Now the sprinkler might be an easy fix, but who are we to know that. I'd like someone with at least 1 hour of experience to do the repair, not the guy whose previous sprinkler experience was severing the line.

So we are back at square one. I'm not used to all this traffic in my yard. I'm pretty sure one of the tent guys saw me topless this morning as I walked from my bedroom to the laundry room.

Hopefully the responsibility falls to the neighbor and tent company to make it right/pay for it! You should not be responsible for anything.

DO NOT let anyone but your current contractors do the repair...otherwise, they can blame the "other repair guy" for any (future) problems you may have! They could always say it was fixed wrong from the beginning so it will cost you extra...or they can't do anything about it, etc.

Has your neighbor been in touch with you to make sure things are going smoothly or has she stayed out of the picture?

Ultimately, it's the tent company that has the problem. They have insurance for these types of things. They never should have put the tent on your property w/o a signed agreement from you. One could assume there was an automatic sprinkler system based on the type of neighborhood you live in.

I wonder if there was a professional bridal consultant who was helping the family? With that kind of money being spent, I would imagine they would hire one...if so, the bridal consultant probably recommended the tent company. The tent company wants to make the bridal consultant happy so they get future jobs. If a vendor isn't cooperating or helping - the bridal consultant needs to know that. The tent company may suddenly become more amicable knowing future jobs may depend on how he handles this dispute...are you following me?

 

[disneyandme]

I hope you took lots of pictures and video. I would also make it know to all parties involved that they are not allowed on your property without checking with you each time.