OT Well it didn't take long for things to turn nasty, did it?

[Tiggerlovinggrandma]

My daughter and son in law have been seperated since January of this year. DD hired an attorney in June after trying to reconcile their differences through counseling. She went for 4 months, he went to only 1 session and decided no more. He doesn't have any problems, he says. Now DD is trying to legalized the seperation which she must do before she can file for divorce. In NC couples must be seperated 1 year before they can file. My son in law told DD that he wasn't going to hire a lawyer. He would just represent himself. They sat down together and decided on an arrangement for their child among other things. Each would get 3 and 1/2 days with thier son each week. They would also work it so if one of them wanted to do a weekend outing with the child they could switch their days that week. DD put it in writing and took it to her lawyer. She paid the $500 to have it finalized.

Last week when it came time for both of them to sign the final seperation agreement. SIL tells DD he has hired an attorney for himself and is now fighting through his lawyer their previous arrangment. He now is demanding he get 4 solid days each week with their son with no negotiation on the days. He wants Thursdays, Fridays, Saturdays and Sundays every week. He also wants his parents to be solely in charge of the child's spiritual instruction and son is to attend his parent's church. Since DD has no proof of SIL irresponcibilities, etc only what she has seen, she feels she can not ask for full custody. She is not in agreement with what SIL is demanding. So the battle has begun...

On top of this, SIL has set DD up as the complete fall person for the failure of their marriage to his family and friends. I give credit to DD for saying at least that although SIL has serious issues with regard to lack of responcibility when it comes to money, family and fatherhood, she agrees she has made some mistakes in the marriage too. However SIL has his family and friends all stirred up and some of them are getting very nasty not only at her but her father and I as well. We are evil doings who gave birth to a horrible girl who has rain down her evilness and pain onto her husband life. .This is a qute, one of many.They are saying extremely unkind and direspectful things to mutual friends as well as on line. So much so that I called SIL yesterday and told him he needs to get his family and friends in line as this type of thing will only end of hurting their little boy at some point. Everyone is entitled to their opinion i know but one does not need to get down and dirty when there are children involved. SIL lied to me straight out and said he didn't start this even though certain members of his family and friends are saying otherwise. None of this surprises us very much as DH and I have witnessed SIL's family and friends do the very same thing when it came to his older brother's ex-wife. They (his parents, new wife, aunts, uncles, cousins, friends) have no problem saying whatever hurtful and nasty comment they want right in front of the children. His brother's girls are 10 and 17. I remember saying to my husband once that they will do the same if DD and SIL even get divorce and sure enough they have begun.

It doesn't take very long for things to go from bad to worse so we are now witnessing. My husband and I as well as our daughter are adults. We can and will handle anything that comes our way in a civil manner for the sake and wellbeing of her child/ our grandchild. Yet my heart breaks at what this precious little boy will have to endue for years to come, not just with the divorce of his parents but with the true uglinees of some in and around his family. They think they are hurting our daughter and us when they are truly hurting a beautiful little boy who does not deserve this.

 

[momof1princess]

i hope her lawyer is a shark, she's going to need one. i used to be a legal secretary and i've seen how ugly these things can get. i pray i'm wrong, but i'm afraid what your daughter has been subjected to so far is just the tip of the iceberg. i wish her and her son (and you & your DH) all the best.

 

[GottaLuvMickey]

I don't really know a lot in the legal world, but I would suggest she document everything being said and done to her and your family and she may be able to use that against him in the custody issue... maybe the judge will see what kind of people your grandson will be subjected to and the environment and go more in your daughter's favor? Either way, this is a horrible situation and like PP said, I hope your daughter has a shark of an attorney because it sounds like she'll need one...

 

[LisaNJ25]

He probably wants 4 full days to say he has the child more and child support will be less. Also not sure how old your granchild is but you will have to watch out for school. Usually the child going to the school in the parents town who has them longer.

Divorce can be so nasty. I am watching a friend going though some crazy crap after she wanted to have her child support amount revisited.

 

[micheleq]

Oh no!!!!

I agree with LisaNJ25, I bet SIL wants 4 days a week so he can get out of paying any child suport.

I hope your DD fights back and fights for full custody. You and your DH were the primary caregivers for your DGS from what I remember of your previous posts, so your family is the place he needs to be.

Hang in there!! Hugs and prayers to you and your family

 

[SharpMomOfTwo]

I don't know anything about the legal stuff, all I can say to you is don't be so worried abou what your SIL and his family are saying about you and your DD. Who cares - obviously they are just jerks who are looking for a finger to point at, and they are not worth the time and energy you are giving them. You need to reserve that time and energy to your grandchild. Also, I would have NEVER called SIL up to say what you did. That is just lowering yourself to his/their level, and thats just not worth it. Be the better person.

 

[sunnyday123]

I don't understand why she feels she can't go for custody? Her not fighting would be the worst thing, does she realize what she's giving up?

And the best way to handle the family is to ignore them. Document everything, print out anything online, and if it's legal in your state, record all phone conversations. If they truly are acting like that, they really should have limited time with the child. It doesn't matter who's fault it was at this point, divorce is the ultimate fix. They should be adult enough to move on from here, and have only the child and his best interest in mind.

 

[Leajess99]

Please have her document EVERYTHING said and being done. Also she may want to record all phone calls being made to her by him or his family. Check your state laws but in many states it only requires one person be aware of the recordings. She can let him know he is being recorded if she so chooses but I would not recommend it unless that is the requirement there.

My ex has had his visitation modified to 2 weeks in the summer per year due to physical and mental abuse of our daughter. I refuse to put up with his crap and just seek help through the courts. Your daughter is going to have to become very strong and a fighter in dealing with this. I'm sorry for all she is going through but she cannot back down for the sake of her child.

 

[MissouriPrincess]

I'm sorry your daughter and you are going through this.

In my opinion (that's all it is), I think she should fight for custody, at least primary. Her child needs stability. I would hope judges don't think that living in one home for half the week and another the other half is in the best interest of the child. When children are involved, the agreement should be what is in the best interest of the children, not that parents get even-steven time with the child. It very well may be some ploy for him to try to get out of child support.

I made mistakes in my divorce, such as letting my ex claim my child as a dependent every other year. Then, he didn't pay child support regularly. Then, he quit paying altogether, and his wages were garnished. Then, he quit working legitimate jobs so he wouldn't get garnished. As far as we know, he didn't file income taxes last year, so my daughter hasn't had any support. But, I agreed to this knowing how he is. I knew enough to make sure that health insurance was figured into my side of the equation, because I knew he'd never keep it and she wouldn't be insured.

So, I'd be ready to fight the fight. I know it won't be easy. A good lawyer will be money well-spent. I'll be thinking of you.

 

[la79al]

Have your daughter go for full physical custody, the courts tend to side with the mother and while she probably won't get full, she will probably get more rather than less time (possbly even primary). And have her fight for joint legal custody. Basically this should mean that both parents have equal rights to school, doctor records, etc. I know our CO states that both parents must be in agreement in regards to religion (and other things) or else nothing happens with it. Technically if either parent takes the kids to church w/o the other parents permission, they can go back to court for contempt.
I really doubt that he is going to get every weekend. If he does, she needs to fight for right of first refusal (or whatever it's called). I think this would mean that if SIL wants to go hang with the boys on Saturday night and he has kiddo, he has to offer kiddo to mom if it is a certain number of hours. Maybe when he realizes that kiddo is a lot of work that he has to handle himself, he will change his tune.
Your daughter (and you) seriously needs to document EVERYTHING. You will be surprised what you realize you wish you had later.
Honestly, it seems like the worst part of the name calling, mud slinging seems to happen at the very beginning. Once a CO is drawn up and the schedule has been going on for a little bit, things will calm down. They will get started again every holiday when both parents can't be with kiddo at the same time and everytime one parent gets a new job and they have to go back for child support. You would be surprised at how far "they're in the middle of a divorce" goes with getting other peoples understanding on why horrible things are being said.
Best of luck to your family to get what you want. Unfortunetly children of divorce are becoming all too common.

 

[AuroraBeauty]

DO NOT, I repeat, DO NOT have any contact with SIL or his family. As PP stated, document everything. If SIL and/or his family continue with the 'bad mouthing' then talk to DD and have her present all of this to her lawyer.

If SIL is represented by an attorney and so is DD, then let the lawyers deal with it. You only run the risk of SIL or his family using anything you say against you and DD. Keep in mind that at any time SIL may be recording phone conversations with you or DD. So, tell DD not to say anything -- no matter how hard SIL pushes -- that could be construed as negative.

And DDs lawyer should be fired if s/he does not challenge SILs petition for all weekends. DDs lawyer should represent her interests w/o regard to what SIL thinks he should get. Let SILs lawyer work for his client. There will be a mediation process so let DD maintain her composure and allow her attorney to work on her behalf.

Document, Document, Document! That's so important. If DD tells SIL that the child is be returned at 5pm and SIL doesn't call to say they will be late (for a good and valid reason) and doesn't show up on time, these things are important.

Also, remind DD to talk to the child (you didnt state age, so if he's old enough) and let him know that mommy and daddy are having some difficulties being friends but it doesn't mean that they don't love him.

If your grandson is old enough, let him know that you and your DH love him very much and are there to talk to if he has any questions or concerns.

Best wishes to you and your family. Divorce is often a very contentious process, but there are resources available to keep non-compliant parties on the straight and narrow.

 

[jmkford4]

I went through a nasty divorce. I agree with the pp's about documentation. Phone calls should be avoided if possible, and if necessary, brief and factual.

I have full custody of my daughter and all rights. I fought my butt off, and I was broke. Don't let SIL intimidate DD or your family. He is hoping you will be scared and agree to this.

If you can afford an attorney, now is the time to do it. NO MATTER WHAT. It is harder to change a court order later (but not impossible).

 

[Colleen27]

As so many others have said, documenting EVERYTHING is essential. And your DD should absolutely seek full custody. It isn't so much that she should expect to get it, but think of the process as something like haggling - you ask for more than you want initially so you have room to give a little without compromising your inital goals. If she goes in there willing to accept 3.5 days/week, she may just find herself stuck with what her ex is asking. Around here, even in near-50/50 custody divisions, judges tend to go 4/3 so the child has a "primary" custodial parent and residence, and if her ex is the only one asking to be that parent he'll likely get it.

 

[polkadotsuitcase]

You're in NC? Only one person needs to be aware of the conversation being taped (your DD, in this case). I'm sorry you and your family are going through this.

 

[Tiggerlovinggrandma]

My grandson is 2 (27 1/2 mos) for those that asked. He is too young to really know what is happening however I feel he knows something is different.

From what I have read so far, most of you think SIL should not get every week visitation and should not be allowed 4 days each week. That dividing son's time half and half is not a good thing for our DGS. I think DD and SIL originally believed they should split up son's time as equally as possible each and every week. At first they talked as if they wanted to be a fair as possible to each other. You know everything split right down the middle including their son's time. DH and I knew from the start that no situation was going to end up being that equaly divided no matter how nice everyone wanted to be.

Over the 2 years of DGS life so far, DD, DH and I have had primary care and responcibility for the child. DH and I have cared for DGS in our home an enormous amount of time and have loved every second. However even we know it was more then most grandparents do. Nevertheless we offered our help so DD could work and finish her college so she would be able to provide better for her son. Logistics also played a role as well. Since we do not live close more times then not DGS spent nights here with DH and me.

Until DD moved out in January SIL seemed to care less if he even saw his son. At one point when DD was seriously ill we cared for DGS for a whole 2 months and SIL never once came by nor called to see how he was. Since the primary seperation SIL wants child half a week, every week. He also calls on occassion to see how he is. He now demands 4 days each week even though majority of that time son would spend with his "ederly and ill" other grandparents. Although our SIL's parents love DGS without a doubt, they themselves have told us he is a lot of work for their age (70's) and the dad has had 4 heart attacks and on going heart rythum problems not to mention they have 5 other grandchildren to help with. They do what they can because they would never deny their son but their exhausted. SIL doesn't seem to realize this. IMO I think its unfair to ask 70 something year old grandparents to care for a 2 year old every weekend.

I have no idea how this will all play out. I can only pray that DD fsill fight for her son's best interest whatever that may be and that everything will work out for the best for my DGS. I do thank you all for your prayers as well as your advice. It has helped us to get a new perspective on things.

 

[mickeyluvr004]

I know for my divorce my ex never came around much when they were young but he had every other weekend from fri night to sun night and 2 nights a week for like 2 hours, and he NEVER came on the 2 nights a week and NEVER called them they are 21 and 19 now and even now have a very shaky relationship with him, but he wanted every week and then realized he would have no life if he had them every weekend and your DD may find that he will do the same especially if he has not had much interest in him now. My mistake that I made (they were 6 months and 2.5 ) when we divorced was that he should have been made to pay child support until the youngest graduated not turned 18 and my son stayed back in 8th grade and didn't graduate until 2 days after his 19th birthday (just graduated June 23rd 2009)so make sure that if he is ordered to pay child support it is in there,as it would have helped me (he never offered to help out the last year he was in school) nothing at all I supported him, and I even took him to court and the judge said No, Tell her to hang in there it is a tough road but she can do it. I have to say I have a wonderful relationship with both my boys and I definetly hope he is jelous of that fact

 

[agnes!]

Document everything.
Keep all e-mails, print them out.
Record all phone conversations.
Record any conversations with SIL that happen in public (no expectation of privacy).
Have NO extraneous contact with SIL & his side. If anyone approaches you (and they will, always with helpful yet upsetting GOSSIP), tell them you can't talk to them without your lawyer present.
Make SURE your DD has a real shark of a lawyer, pay for him/her yourselves if you have to.
SIL is the one who decided to play nasty, not your DD.
Your job and your DD's job now is TO PROTECT YOUR DGS - whatever it takes.
Don't talk badly about your SIL in front of anyone else except your DD, everyone else could be carrying tales back to SIL/the Dark Side(lol).
If people try to tell you 'stuff', just say "I'm sorry, but I'm not listening to that" or something similar. Listening to gossip will drain your energy and take your focus away from the most important person in this mess...your precious DGS.

,
agnes!

 

[LKHomemail]

there is a possibility that he wants custody four days a week because he / his attorney , will seek child support from your daughter. men these days are suing women for child support and alimony. she should get a couple legal opinions to protect her and the childrens interest.

 

[tinkermom23]

I talked to my sister about this because she just finalized her divorce and she lives in NC. She told me to tell you to tell your DD lmao that she should definately fight for full custody! NC almost always sides with the mother?? I do not know this for a fact... that is her words and she has just been through it.

Good Luck!!

 

[badblackpug]

It never takes long to turn nasty. I am sure that divorce/custody proceedings vary from state to state. I know that it has turned in recent years from always favoring the mother, to offering equal parenting to both mother and father. ...and truthfully, this is what is best for the children involved. I know of people whose custody agreement has the child with dad 1/2 the week and with mom 1/2 the week. One week is 4 days with om and 3 days with dad and the following week is the opposite. I also know a couple that does 1 week with mom and 1 week with dad, alternating.

The thing you have to remember is that there are 2 sides to every story, and, naturally, you will be more sympathetic to your daughter's side. Maybe your son in law didn't come to your house often to see his son because he was uncomfortable? I am sure he knows your opinion of him, either through you or your daughter. ...and from your previous posts, all the arguments you make against your son in law he can make against your daughter. That she leaves the primary care for their son to you and your husband. That she left him with you for 2 months and had little involvement with him. That she leaves him with you because she doesn't feel like traveling back and forth to pick him up. Really, from what I have read neither has been the ideal parent. I am not saying that either is right or wrong, I am saying the facts can be used to support either argument.

I am sure that his attorney encouraged him to seek custody 4 days a week to avoid paying or to receive child support. Here primary custody is determined by where the child spends the most "over-nights." Unless you can prove that he was negligent or abusive there is really no way to ensure your daughter has sole custody. Nor should there be. My oldest's father is minimally involved. When I was younger and angrier I just wanted him gone, maybe out of anger or spite. I never kept him from his daughter, he just slowly bowed out as the years went on. He sees her and contacts her sporadically. When it is convenient to his schedule. I now wish he had been more involved. No matter how many support systems a child has, it is still very hurtful for them when they feel that they are on the bottom of their parents priority list. (and that goes for both parents!) While I am sure that your grandson loves you very much, you are not his parents, and in the long run, they are the ones that need to step up and become mature, responsible parents.

Really you should step back and let your daughter handle her own divorce. Don't get involve with the "he said, she said" mess. ...an don't cut your son in law out. Continue to communicate with him. ...but only about your grandson. Not about the divorce. Not about his family. Not about who said what to whom, or who posted what on facebook, myspace or twitter. All that is just childishness (which is why I don't have memberships!) and you shouldn't sink to that level. Remember, no matter what happens your son in law is still your grandson's father and will be for the rest of his life. He is half of everything your grandson is. When you disapprove of him what you are saying to your grandson is "I don't like half of what you are."

As judge Judy would say. "You have to love your child more than you hate each other."