OT: Toddlers and Timeout

[NemoMOm]

OKay, I just have to get this off my chest. I am a sahm that makes some add'l income by running a licensed daycare at home. I just took on a 17 mos old 3 days a week cause the mother was a friend of one of my full-timers. Now I have a contract that states I use TO and in fact am required by law to have a disciplinary policy. I discussed this with the mother ahead of time.

I am very lenient I always give the children a warning and usually they only get a TO for something really bad. Well. 2 weeks ago she came to pick the child up and asked how was he? Well, I said he had been really rough with the other children (hitting,pulling hair and throwing toys at them) and I had to use TO. Well, I could tell she was not happy. I explained that when I give him a warning he laughs and continues to do it even if the child is begining to cry at this point. So, the next week she calls and tells me that she has done some research and finds that he is too young to put in TO and shw would rather I tell him no. I explained that this does not work and he only goes in to TO when harming another child (not even when trying to climb on the kitchen table or attempting to play with the stove which apparently he does at home) She then tells me that she would prefer that instead of using TO I call her instead .

She later calls me back and cancels for the day and tells me she will call later well, here it is the next week and no show and no call. So, I call her cause I have a ton of her stuff and no call back.

I am just so upset cause she acts as if I am truly doing something wrong. She has also spent hours at my house just talking to me so I really dumbfounded that she would be so disrespectful. Am I overreacting?

 

[tweedlemom]

No, I think what you did was fine. Something tells me that if her child was the one getting hit, she would be asking you if the "hitter" got time out. Children need rules, consequences and they need to know that you will follow through with them. Sounds like the kid gets away with everything at home and you're probably the first person to put him in his place. You'd be amazed at how many parents don't use the word "no". My brother in law and his wife don't and their daughter is spoiled rotten, bordering on bratty. They look at us like we're evil when we implement time outs for our sons, but, hey, they need the structure. We love our boys dearly, but we don't let them run the house. Sounds like the mom you're dealing with may be a softy and she may not know HOW to discipline her child. You're keeping the interests of the other children in mind. The rule is no hitting, and you're just following through with the consequences and protecting the other children. Plus, if he starts to get away with it, it won't belong before kids notice that and they start hitting too.

 

[NemoMOm]

Thank you Tweedlemom I was sure I was doing the right thing it's just I'm taken aback by the way she is treating me so it makes you second guess yourself. I'm not upset about him leaving cause he was very stressful ans she kept changing the days that she needed me(less and less while taking a spot).

Thank you it means alot coming from another mom that I did the right thing.

 

[DreaGirl]

I agree, I think you did the right thing. TO is not for every parent, so maybe she needs to find another daycare. It sounds to me like he was a handful and maybe it is best for everyone.

I am a former teacher, no SAHM, and I use a form of TO with my 14 mo old DD. She has to sit in my lap for 1 minute after 3 "no touch" or something similar. There has to be bounderies or else the kids end up running the show.

 

[jcc0621]

I totally agree with what you did and if it was my DS, I would have talked to him about it afterward (as much as you can with an 18 month old )Also, if you have a contract and she is not going to have the child return to your care I would send her as to the cancellation policy is and that she has such and such amount of time to pickup the time that she left at your house. I would send this with signature receipt confirmation.

Janet

 

[Nanu57v]

The child's age is kind of iffy. According to 1-2-3 Magic (so I've been told, never actually read it myself), timeout isn't effective until about 18 months. Before that, redirection should be used. I know in our daycare you can tell if a child "gets" timeout or not. With my DD she was older than 18 months, some kids are younger.

 

[Princess Roo]

I think you are definitely in the "right" here. While we personally prefer not to use TO until an older age, you had that in your discipline plan and the time to negotiate that was when she signed her child up. (If it had been me, I would have asked if you could do our method instead and if that didn't work for you I would likely have been willing to try TO.) Worst case, if she were opposed she should have discussed other options with you (besides "say no", which obviously wasn't working) and if she couldn't find something that worked for you then given appropriate notice before pulling her child! It wasn't like you were harming her child, for goodness sake!

 

[my2minnies]

I think you are not being overly harsh here at all. All kids need discipline and I have found that TO have worked for my kids at that age. I too would only use it for major things such as hitting, biting or pulling hair. I have 24 month old twins who stared hitting at 15 months--they were immediately put in TO. They may not have "gotten" it the first time, but they certainly did by the 3rd time in TO. I have to say, the behavior stopped within a month. I think it is great that you have a way to protect the other children by being consistent and by having a written policy.

 

[kat3668]

No way did you do anything wrong! I have taught a toddler enrichment program for 15 years and as much as some people think that limits and timeouts are not effective I believe otherwise. When you are caring for other peoples children the safety of all the children is of utmost importance. I usually reserve timeouts or as I call them breaks when a child is hurting another child or simply not listening and are a danger to themselves or others.
I usually base it on one minute per year of age and then try to redirect the child onto other activites. I think that if the tables were turned that parent would be very upset that her child was being hurt. Sometimes you cannot please all parents as I have learned over the years and you should conduct your daycare in a way that makes you comfortable. If they are not happy go elsewhere, thats my motto.

 

[Mouse House Mama]

TO really just removes the child from the situation. It is very similar to redirecting. I don't think you did anything wrong. It's not like you were sticking the kid with pins! I also feel that had she read your policy she would have known how you handle such things and if she didn't like it she could have found another person to watch her child. JMHO.

 

[Minniemouse07]

Well I have to go against the grain here and say that I wouldn't have been happy w/ you placing my 17mo in time out either.

I've worked in daycare (toddlers.. exactly this age), have a degree in education (elementary) and have two children (dd, 6yo and ds, 19mo).

In both my studies and my experience (professionally and personally) TO doesn't work long term AND almost never will change behavior of a child under the age of 2-2.5yo. The best way to deal w/ a young child and an unwanted behavior is redirection.

The reason why TO doesn't work w/ a 17mo is that their attention span is way too short. They have NO idea why they are sitting on a step or in a chair, etc. At this point they are just ticked off that they are being made to sit somewhere they don't.. and have totally forgotten that they hit, pinched, bit someone, or stood on furniture, etc.

Redirection however, works within the child's understanding and development. By removing the child from the unwanted situation and engaging them in another activity you stop the unwanted behavior.

As a child gets older I do use a removal technique where I will ask the child to sit somewhere quietly to calm down and regroup. This isn't a "timed" removal, but it depends on the child and the caregiver. When the child calms down/regroups then they can sit together and discuss the unwanted behavior.

This has worked out for me, my colleagues and my friends. My 6yo is well adjusted and VERY well behaved ... and didn't need time outs to get there.

 

[NemoMOm]

Well I have to go against the grain here and say that I wouldn't have been happy w/ you placing my 17mo in time out either.

I've worked in daycare (toddlers.. exactly this age), have a degree in education (elementary) and have two children (dd, 6yo and ds, 19mo).

In both my studies and my experience (professionally and personally) TO doesn't work long term AND almost never will change behavior of a child under the age of 2-2.5yo. The best way to deal w/ a young child and an unwanted behavior is redirection.

The reason why TO doesn't work w/ a 17mo is that their attention span is way too short. They have NO idea why they are sitting on a step or in a chair, etc. At this point they are just ticked off that they are being made to sit somewhere they don't.. and have totally forgotten that they hit, pinched, bit someone, or stood on furniture, etc.

Redirection however, works within the child's understanding and development. By removing the child from the unwanted situation and engaging them in another activity you stop the unwanted behavior.

As a child gets older I do use a removal technique where I will ask the child to sit somewhere quietly to calm down and regroup. This isn't a "timed" removal, but it depends on the child and the caregiver. When the child calms down/regroups then they can sit together and discuss the unwanted behavior.

This has worked out for me, my colleagues and my friends. My 6yo is well adjusted and VERY well behaved ... and didn't need time outs to get there.

Well, I thank you for your advice. I too have done research and what I found encouraged TO. I also sit w/the child in TO for 1 min while explaining why they are in TO. I used it on my son at that age and at 2yrs 5 mos he is a very well behaved boy.

My upset is that this was discused prior to his enrollment and in my contract as my state insists on a discipline policy. The mom was okay with this.

 

[Minniemouse07]

Well, I thank you for your advice. I too have done research and what I found encouraged TO. I also sit w/the child in TO for 1 min while explaining why they are in TO. I used it on my son at that age and at 2yrs 5 mos he is a very well behaved boy.

My upset is that this was discused prior to his enrollment and in my contract as my state insists on a discipline policy. The mom was okay with this.

The day care center we use for our children (since our 6yo dd was 3mo) has a discipline policy as well. They do talk about using TO in the policy but it isn't applied until a child is developmentally ready for TO to be used effectively.

So when I read about using TO w/ children I would believe that it would be used as our dc does... when age appropriate. Most information that I have read about TO specifically states that it isn't developmentally appropriate until after age 2. So if I found out that they were using TO w/ my now 19mo... I too would be upset and have LONG discussions w/ his teachers and the director. My first step would NOT be to remove him from the center but hopefully come up w/ a discipline plan w/ them that we all would follow. That is where I disagree w/ your client.

If you would like to research this some more, I can recommend The Discipline Book by William Sears. He is a pediatrician and a father of eight. Great resource about using developmentally appropriate discipline techniques.

 

[las3888]

I agree with your t/o. I believe our pedi told us to use time out at that age (ds is 27 mos now). We never really had to at that point though. I believe we were instructed to use it when they do something of harm to themselves or to others. I don't imagine a t/o at that age will do a whole lot as far as disciplining them long-term though. They will probably continue with the hitting type behavior for some time. The t/o is supposed to be used to stop that kind of behavior at that moment. I think distraction is a good method to try at that age, although it has varying success with each child.

I'm no expert, just adding my 2 cents.

 

[NemoMOm]

The day care center we use for our children (since our 6yo dd was 3mo) has a discipline policy as well. They do talk about using TO in the policy but it isn't applied until a child is developmentally ready for TO to be used effectively.

So when I read about using TO w/ children I would believe that it would be used as our dc does... when age appropriate. Most information that I have read about TO specifically states that it isn't developmentally appropriate until after age 2. So if I found out that they were using TO w/ my now 19mo... I too would be upset and have LONG discussions w/ his teachers and the director. My first step would NOT be to remove him from the center but hopefully come up w/ a discipline plan w/ them that we all would follow. That is where I disagree w/ your client.

If you would like to research this some more, I can recommend The Discipline Book by William Sears. He is a pediatrician and a father of eight. Great resource about using developmentally appropriate discipline techniques.

Again, Christine thank you for yor adivce. I think we will agree to disagree. I have also done extensive research that review both sides. I have read a couple of Dr. Sears books including TDB and AP. With anything I do I ALWAYS do extensive research. Wether it is child raising, running a daycare,investing or even visiting WDW. Type of person I am.

Again I would like to mention the child was only put in TO when harming other children and I don't mean he slapped a child and then walked away. Things like throwing cars at a child or dragging another by her hair to the point I'm trying to pry his fingers away. I have a responsibility to the other children in my care. I should also mention that the little girl that he is most aggressive with is a family friend and the mother has stated that the little girl was rough with him when he was smaller and now the little boy is "getting his own back".

I shoudd also mention that I am not upset that she pulled him in fact relieved. I could not do anything with the other children because he is so out of control. Banging the window w/toys,throwing things at the t.v., attempting t play with the stove, trying to crawl on the kitchen table. I was constantly lifting him and redirecting his attention elsewhere. And every diaper change was a tantrum complete with kicking and screaming. This is apparently everyday behavior according to his mother.

I am upset by the way that she has done so. I have even called her because she has quite a few things here that I would like to be picked up and she is not returning my calls.

 

[krystalleigh1]

Well I have to go against the grain here and say that I wouldn't have been happy w/ you placing my 17mo in time out either.

I've worked in daycare (toddlers.. exactly this age), have a degree in education (elementary) and have two children (dd, 6yo and ds, 19mo).

In both my studies and my experience (professionally and personally) TO doesn't work long term AND almost never will change behavior of a child under the age of 2-2.5yo. The best way to deal w/ a young child and an unwanted behavior is redirection.

The reason why TO doesn't work w/ a 17mo is that their attention span is way too short. They have NO idea why they are sitting on a step or in a chair, etc. At this point they are just ticked off that they are being made to sit somewhere they don't.. and have totally forgotten that they hit, pinched, bit someone, or stood on furniture, etc.

Redirection however, works within the child's understanding and development. By removing the child from the unwanted situation and engaging them in another activity you stop the unwanted behavior.

As a child gets older I do use a removal technique where I will ask the child to sit somewhere quietly to calm down and regroup. This isn't a "timed" removal, but it depends on the child and the caregiver. When the child calms down/regroups then they can sit together and discuss the unwanted behavior.

This has worked out for me, my colleagues and my friends. My 6yo is well adjusted and VERY well behaved ... and didn't need time outs to get there.

I have to agree. Time out is not developmentally appropriate discipline for a child under about age 2. They just don't get it yet.

I'm also a licensed hdcp and have taken coursework in ECE (getting my degree in May 08, yay!). In everything I have ever read about age appropriate discipline it's said that TO's are not appropriate for under 2 yrs. Maybe you're looking at old literature?

Anyway, that said, even though it wasn't age appropriate discipline the mother had no right to respond the way she did. You didn't hurt her ds by putting him in TO. If she was really unhappy with it she should have talked with you (which it sounds like she did) and at minimum given you notice that she was leaving. That was very disrespectful of her to blow you off. I hope you charge her for that last week (or whatever she owes). Besides, if she had your contract before starting she knew what she was getting into-if she had questions about how you discipline the kids it should have been asked at that time.

Have you ever checked out the babycenter home daycare boards? They're great!

 

[jakoky]

I have to say i believe you are totally doing the right thing...by 18 months, 2 0f my 3 kids could speak in sentences and all 3 of mine understood everything...after many no's and distractions, 1 minute in timeout can help hugely, unless they are in a tantrum...i also do in home daycare, and thankfully i havent encountered one like you have...i have a little 21 month old right now, she is very good, but still hits occasionally..all i have to do with her is say no hitting and it usually stops...if it continued i would sit her down and say no hitting and talk to her for a minute...i think time outs are great if used well and only when really needed....
shar

 

[belle&beast]

I think the reason that the literature contradicts itself is because there is such a broad range of attention and comprehension with toddlers. I am a speech therapist and have worked with infants and toddlers, and a mom of 2, so I have both personal and professional experience. Many kids understand just about everything they hear at 2 years, others are still needing short phrases.

OP, I think what you did is fine. This may not be a child who understood what was going on, but you have to keep all kids safe. The mom understood your policy and agreed to it, but it was a whole different story when her child was the one needing a TO.

In our preschool we use a quiet area instead TO. When kids act out, they are removed from the situation until they can calm themselves. Some kids calm very quickly when they realize they cannot participate until they are showing they are ready, others take longer, but they all figure it out.

 

[lutherlovr]

I would not have wanted my child put in time out, but like you said it was in your policy and she agreed to that. She probably thought her child would not be bad and need time out. That said, I don't think she was in the wrong by leaving. She should follow whatever policy you have for not using your care anymore. (2 weeks pay, etc.) I would absolutely pull my child out of care in a second if they weren't following my instructions, their style fundamentally disagreed with my style, etc. Prehaps your two "styles" just don't mesh...neither of you is "wrong".

 

[emh1129]

I never would have allowed a TO for my children when they were that age. We used redirection.. 17 months just seems so young for a timeout. I believe that redirection really is widely acknowledged to be the best method at that developmental stage (I actually haven't seen anything to say otherwise, although I'm sure there is something out there).

However, you were upfront about it and she knew about it ahead of time, so once she saw your policy she should have thanked you for your time and moved on to find another facility before this ever became a problem. It's just about finding a good fit.