OT: Public School Screening Kdg kids

[elainemeyerovitz]

why bother?

 

[MidgeD79]

I don't like it. There are no schools in my county that do pre-k evaluations. They stopped about 5 years ago. My ds 9 has significant reading delays. he has 4 small group reading sessions each day in his class. The only time that kids are removed from class is if they need Resource room help 1-2 times a week.(Which he does)

 

[Schmeck]

I do like it - and it's up to the teachers, especially sped teachers, to make sure no stigma is attached. Nobody is good at everything, everyone needs help sometimes, and sometimes the best way to help kids in school is to do small group learning in a separate area.

This 'least restrictive' stuff isn't always the best for learning, as some kids cannot focus when there's lots of activity around. When I worked in a kindergarten class, 1/3 of the kids were going out of the room for one thing or another, and no one asked about where Jonny and Jill were going... (not going all at once, of course!)

Scheduling the times the kids were leaving the room so as not to conflict with large group time is important, though. Kids will understand that Dick and Jane are working with Miss Helper during math when everyone else is at small center groups because everyone is not doing the same thing at that time. But if everyone else is listening to Teacher read a story and Dick and Jane are leaving the group to go somewhere else, then the kids will ask questions.

Of course those questions can be answered, explaining that they need to go do more work with Miss Helper (keeping confidentiality, although I think confidentiality can come back and bite a kid in the butt) but it's easier to avoid the questions if the kids come and go during more independent learning time.

Why is it that parents need to approve of everything that is done to help a kid at school, yet so many kids come to school without the basic building blocks of proper behavior, etc, so that people talk about how schools have to spend so much time parenting kids, instead of teaching academics? We can't have it both ways - that puts way too much burden on a school and lets the parent off scot-free.

Instead of 'how dare the school put my kid in a helpful program without my permission' I'm more apt to think 'how dare a parent have 5 years with a child, and the child doesn't know how to spell his name or recognize the 26 letters in the alphabet, and count to 20?'

 

[disneyjunkie]

why bother?

Are you for real???

ONE person doesn’t agree with you so you delete your OP.

I should have quoted your post when I first read it.

I do like it - and it's up to the teachers, especially sped teachers, to make sure no stigma is attached. Nobody is good at everything, everyone needs help sometimes, and sometimes the best way to help kids in school is to do small group learning in a separate area.

This 'least restrictive' stuff isn't always the best for learning, as some kids cannot focus when there's lots of activity around. When I worked in a kindergarten class, 1/3 of the kids were going out of the room for one thing or another, and no one asked about where Jonny and Jill were going... (not going all at once, of course!)

Scheduling the times the kids were leaving the room so as not to conflict with large group time is important, though. Kids will understand that Dick and Jane are working with Miss Helper during math when everyone else is at small center groups because everyone is not doing the same thing at that time. But if everyone else is listening to Teacher read a story and Dick and Jane are leaving the group to go somewhere else, then the kids will ask questions.

Of course those questions can be answered, explaining that they need to go do more work with Miss Helper (keeping confidentiality, although I think confidentiality can come back and bite a kid in the butt) but it's easier to avoid the questions if the kids come and go during more independent learning time.

Why is it that parents need to approve of everything that is done to help a kid at school, yet so many kids come to school without the basic building blocks of proper behavior, etc, so that people talk about how schools have to spend so much time parenting kids, instead of teaching academics? We can't have it both ways - that puts way too much burden on a school and lets the parent off scot-free.

Instead of 'how dare the school put my kid in a helpful program without my permission' I'm more apt to think 'how dare a parent have 5 years with a child, and the child doesn't know how to spell his name or recognize the 26 letters in the alphabet, and count to 20?'

I happen to agree with you. A few years ago a parent YELLED at me because after one month in kindergarten, her daughter couldn't do the things you listed.

I just shrugged and told her "I'm sorry, I've only had her for one month, you've had her for five years."

 

[Aliceacc]

I didn't see the original post, and I teach secondary math, not Kindergarten. But I do have 3 kids under the age of 10... my 4 year old (in Pre-K) attends Speech classes twice a week to help her articulation.

I can't imagine how you would structure a class without knowing anything about the kids coming in-- their strengths, weaknesses, abilities, and so on. How do you determine which, if any, kids need resource room? Or speech? Or PT? Lots and lots of parents are completely unaware of Early Intervention, and some don't attend any sort of Pre-K program. So it's imperative that those with any sort of learning disability or other issue get help. It would take a whole lot longer to pick up on problems in the context of a normal class day; some one on one screening time with a teacher makes complete sense to me.

But then again, I'm not sure whether or not that's what I'm supposed to be replying to.

 

[The Disney Bunch]

ok - you really should have left your post so we could respond to it - if you don't like what one person said, that is what makes this all great- we all have opinions. I think the evals are a good idea. Gives the teachers & educators an idea of what level the incoming kids are at & where they should concentrate. Not sure what you were objecting to since you deleted your post with a snide remark.

 

[Schmeck]

I think the 'why bother' might explain enough - although I do not understand the need to post an "OT" topic in the Disney for Families forum, and then not expect to have more than one point of view expressed.

 

[Alex&Evan'sMom]

I can understand both points of view(from what I can tell because I didn't read the original post). In the pre-kindergarten evaluation/testing category anyway. My son went to preschool and knew everything he needed for kindergarten(according to a list supplied by his preschool). But at the testing/evaluation he tested horribly. I was told later by his teacher in a conference that he didn't name any letters of the alphabet!! This from a kid who was singing the alphabet song loudly and to anyone who would listen at the age of 2 1/2! But my child is hyperactive and borderline adhd and was very excited about kindergarten registration. At a conference a month later the teacher told me that she had put him in the group of children that needed the most work. She was surprised when he had no trouble with any of the schoolwork and became a top reader in his class!! It just goes to show that testing doesn't always represent the student accurately.(I blame myself, I always tested badly for anything like that. I can still remember freezing up. I'm an overly stressful person that got tested for an ulcer at the age of 6!) The small groups thing I love though. It helps my son focus on his work and he likes going from station to station with the same group to complete his assignments. He is thriving in 1st grade and the only thing he ever has a problem with is working quietly and being easily distracted. He loves reading and spelling and doesn't care for math even though he does well(I'm afraid he gets that from me also. Oh well, you pay for your raising as my mom says!)

 

[disneyjunkie]

But at the testing/evaluation he tested horribly. I was told later by his teacher in a conference that he didn't name any letters of the alphabet!! This from a kid who was singing the alphabet song loudly and to anyone who would listen at the age of 2 1/2!

I've had parents get upset with me about this as well. (As a matter of fact I dealing with it right now )

Just because a child can sing the ABC song, doesn't mean they recognize the letters. This can also happen with numbers. A child may be able to rote count, but not recognize numbers.

 

[goofypooh]

I didn't see the OP either. Are we talking about testing/screening preschool age kids before they go to kindergarten? I teach early childhood special ed, so I know that kids are definitely coming into kindergarten at all different levels. Our county does not do screening for K. kids before they come to school, so I am not really sure how it works. But, I would think that you would not always get an accurate picture of what the child can do or what her/she really knows. If they are just coming in one time for a screening with someone they have never met....a child that age may be especially shy & refuse to talk or answer questions (just one example). Or, a child might know all his letters, but once he gets into school, the teacher will realize that he has absolutely no social skills or self-help skills. IMO it is just hard to group them until they have come to kindergarten & the teacher has had a chance to work with them for awhile and really get to know them.

 

[belle&beast]

My DD is in kindergarten and her school does not do the screenings. I asked her teacher to screen her reading level so she can work to her potential. (She was telling me she was bored because they are only working on recognizing letters right now.) The teacher screened her and is using a reading curriculum with her during "seatwork time" based on her ability. I volunteer in the classroom and you would not believe the range of abilities in a kindergarten classroom at the beginning of the year!!!! Some kids are reading while others do not recognize letters. Some kids know letter sounds and others do not. Some kids can count to 100+ and others cannot count with 1:1 correspondence. All are within the average range and will be generally at the same level at the end of the year. What a challenge for the teacher!!!

I am a speech pathologist in the public school preschools and we do speech and language screenings in our schools and in the community preschools. Most kids will talk to us and we can get an idea about their speech sound production and use of language. If they refuse due to being shy with a stranger, we will come back in a few weeks and ask the teachers in the classroom for their input. In the areas of speech and language the screenings are crucial to help a child with a delay before they enter kindergarten.

 

[jennwdw]

Instead of 'how dare the school put my kid in a helpful program without my permission' I'm more apt to think 'how dare a parent have 5 years with a child, and the child doesn't know how to spell his name or recognize the 26 letters in the alphabet, and count to 20?'

I just had to comment on this. As the parent of a child w/learning difficulties who could not recognize the letters of the alphabet when he started K and still has difficulty counting in 1st grade.(he could spell his own name) I just want to say all kids learn differently and at different levels. I've been working long and hard w/him since he was 6 months old to get these skills and it's a struggle every day. I certainly wouldn't blame my teachers for him not knowing these things but I do expect my school to provide him with the tools to gain this knowledge(in addition to the hours I put in at home and the various therapies we've done over the years). I'm lucky in that our school is great however I just wanted to point out that not all K's have this "checklist" of skills mastered. I would hate to think anyone is saying "How dare" without knowing the entire situation.......

 

[ksumn1]

jennwdw, I'm sure that most of the educators were referring to parents who DON'T wprk with their children, don't take time to check their schoolwork, return forms, attend school functions, or even take the time to schedule a teacher's conference if they have concerns.....and then balme it on the teacher. I'm a parent, not a teacher but I do voulenteer occasionly at my DD's school and there really are some "parents" out there who seem to think that it is the responsibility of the school to educate their children with no help or input form the parents. I'm sure your DS's teacher knows you're a concerned parent who takes an active role in his education. A learning disability is in a totally different catagory that a child who has unconcerned parents. (It's not too hard to tell the difference) My oldest DD is almost 9, in the 3rd grade, and there are parents of children in her class I've never met because they have never attended a funtion there. (Even the afterschool programs)

My oldest is extremely bright and right now I'm trying to have her tested for the gifted program. Her PreK, K, 1st, and 2nd grade teachers all agree that she should be, but for some reason the person doing the testing doesn't think she would "qualify" So test her and see. If not, I'll be OK. But I don't want her getting bored with school (she's getting there) when a simple test could put her in a program that would keep her challenged.

I think that the testing is very helpful for parents and teachers. It can help you identify areas your child may need extra help in or additional work to keep them challenged. It canalso give the teachers an idea of which students test well. They may know Jimmy knows his ABC's and can count to 30, but he has problems on the test. Maybe he needs additional test taking skills assistance.

 

[Schmeck]

I just had to comment on this. As the parent of a child w/learning difficulties who could not recognize the letters of the alphabet when he started K and still has difficulty counting in 1st grade.(he could spell his own name) I just want to say all kids learn differently and at different levels. I've been working long and hard w/him since he was 6 months old to get these skills and it's a struggle every day. I certainly wouldn't blame my teachers for him not knowing these things but I do expect my school to provide him with the tools to gain this knowledge(in addition to the hours I put in at home and the various therapies we've done over the years). I'm lucky in that our school is great however I just wanted to point out that not all K's have this "checklist" of skills mastered. I would hate to think anyone is saying "How dare" without knowing the entire situation.......

I agree - and my 'how dare' was just a reflection of the OP's post. As ksumn pointed out, there's no comparison between a child who has learning disabilities, or any other disabilities, and a child who has been plunked down in front of a tv for half a day because mom is 'busy'. There are kids out there that can tell you all about their 20+ playstation games, and about the pro wrestling they watched, but they don't know the alphabet.

 

[MSSANDRA]

I am a preschool director that has worked with preschool and kindergarten children, but also a mom. As a mom i KNOW how hard it can be sometimes for ANYONE to judge your child. Our momma bear defences go up and we will defend our child as the perfect child to the end. In reality however test and screening will follow our children their entire lives. At one minute old they get the apgar test and it never ends. Preschool and kindergarten screenings can provide valuable information and give insight to what the needs of each child might be. our preschool uses "Ages & Stages". It is a developmental screening that helps to spot areas where a child might be at a disadvantage. Out district does kindergarten screenings on every child. Some schools do theirs in the spring when the children register and some do theirs in the fall during the first few days of school. These test are not knowledge test but rather test things like small motor skills and language development. The testers are very aware that children can sometimes be shy and nervous and take that into account. In our district the, the scores are not, as a rule ,shared with parents and are distroyed at the end of kindergarten. They are just a tool to guild the placement of children.

Now I am a huge beliver that our schools do often put too much emphasis on testing and EOG's in our state have taken over the classroom. Teachers often teach to the test and it is sad. I am however just as firm a beliver that testing, or screening can be a wondeful gift to a child that might otherwise fall through the cracks.

BTW- i LOVE it when parent are convinced that their child knows their ABC's when they can sing the ABC song. Thing is 1/2 the kids think that "LMNOP" sang fast together is a letter!!!!

All children are differently wonderful and all have different needs and gifts and it is doing them a service to find out what those things are.

MsSandra

 

[Alex&Evan'sMom]

I've had parents get upset with me about this as well. (As a matter of fact I dealing with it right now )

Just because a child can sing the ABC song, doesn't mean they recognize the letters. This can also happen with numbers. A child may be able to rote count, but not recognize numbers.

Just for the record my child could identify the alphabet and numbers. He was evaluated over the course of his preschool education and knew them both. He just got overexcited at orientation. My point was that sometimes the child doesn't always test as well as what he or she is capable of. I also didn't get upset with the teacher. I know she is just doing her job the best way she can. I can also understand both points of view. Maybe you can't or won't.

 

[PrincessHeart]

Our school does a small evaluation at Kindergarten round-up. Other schools in our district do not. My kids K teacher (we were lucky to have a great teacher with both kids) told me that they were essentially trying to get a base level evaluation. Can they sit, listen & follow directions, do they know how to write thier name, etc.. They can from this snapshot try to place the children in classes that don't end up stacked with all the behavior problems in one class and a good cross section of skill level in each class. It's not exact, but at least it's better than blind luck. I can't imagine how hard it is to teach K on a daily basis. When the kids come in they are on such different levels.

 

[mericletwins]

I just had to comment on this. As the parent of a child w/learning difficulties who could not recognize the letters of the alphabet when he started K and still has difficulty counting in 1st grade.(he could spell his own name) I just want to say all kids learn differently and at different levels. I've been working long and hard w/him since he was 6 months old to get these skills and it's a struggle every day. I certainly wouldn't blame my teachers for him not knowing these things but I do expect my school to provide him with the tools to gain this knowledge(in addition to the hours I put in at home and the various therapies we've done over the years). I'm lucky in that our school is great however I just wanted to point out that not all K's have this "checklist" of skills mastered. I would hate to think anyone is saying "How dare" without knowing the entire situation.......

I think that she meant the parent that comes in after a month an d wants to know why the child can't do everything that they weren't doing before they came to school. This would obviously rule out situations like yours, because based on your experience working with your child, you knew that in one month's time your child would not be able to master that kind of checklist.

As a former pre-k and k teacher (now middle school) it used to drive me crazy when parents would come in for fall conferences and want to know why their child didn't know this or that, especially in the areas of reading, etc. I would ask how often they are reading, practicing letter recognition, sounds of letters, etc and I have had more then one parent say that they don't do any of it, that is my job. I think that is the kind of parent the poster was referring to.