OT-How do I teach ds to defend himself

[EclecticWAHM]

I am a Mom and I completely agree with you. Everyone is so afraid to stand up to bullies now that they get away with even more. I am a fan of the 3 strike rule. 1st time- tell the bully to cut it out. 2nd time- tell an adult. 3rd time- punch the kid back etc.
Also- OP what is your dd doing while her brother is being bullied on the playground? If one of my kids sat and did nothing while their sibling was being bullied that kid would be getting in trouble. In our house we stick up for each other so that would not fly.

ETA- What are the teachers doing that they don't notice?

It does get really old when the teachers don't notice or the bullies are just sneakier about it. I really wish some parents would do a better job of teaching their little punks how to treat people. Walking away is best, but when it happens time and time and time again and nothing is done about it, I don't blame a kid for fighting back. Sometimes it takes a bloody nose to make a stupid punk kid to quit acting like a horse's behind. I swear, my kids lives would grind to a screeching halt if *ever* they participating in bullying of any kind and I found out about. All to often you get those "oh no, not *my* kid - my kid would never do that." Wake up people! Ugh. Bullies just suck and I wish parents and schools would do more to get these kids to stop, and if they won't stop get them out of the schools.

 

[robinsegg]

Are you available during the day? Do you need to be at the school for a few days to supervise while ds is on the playground?
I assume the schools don't look favorably upon such parental behavior . . . but they don't seem to mind the bullying enough to take action. Or not enough action to protect your son. Another possibility would be to have a video camera just outside the play area. Take a tape of what the kids are doing to your son and take it to the police. Press battery charges, if necessary.
I was bullied in school, right under the teachers' noses, and nothing was ever done. Believe me, there are groups of kids (mine was almost my entire graduating class) that are just bad groups. Some schools are being a lot more proactive about these issues, but it sounds like yours is like mine was.
We homeschool, and have still dealt with bullies. The difference is that I was on hand to help my kids deal with the situation, so I *could* have them come to me so I could help them with the other child and do closer supervision when necessary.
You may have to become a much bigger problem to the schools in being your son's advocate before they'll take any real action.

 

[FlightlessDuck]

I appreciate the replies. However this has been going on for a long time and walking away does not seem to help.

Talk with the teacher and principal if necessary. If you teach your child to retaliate, HE will be the one to get in trouble. Unless a teacher sees the whole fight, more than likely what will happen is the child who threw the last punch will be the one in the most trouble.

 

[FlightlessDuck]

Sometimes it's the only way to stop further violence. Liberal teaching to the contrary, violence does not beget more violence, weakness does.

I completely disagree. If this were true, gang wars wouldn't happen. Violence most definitely does beget more violence, as seen time and again. Just ask anyone living in the Middle East. Or in a urban environment for that matter.

However, There is a thin line before getting into fights and getting walked all over. The two teens in Littleton let themselves be bullied until they snapped.

I don't think your son should let himself be pushed around, either. He needs to make sure someone in authority knows about these situations. If the person watching recess isn't going to do anything about the situation, talk with the teacher, principal, or someone in district administration if you need to.

 

[Mouse House Mama]

Talk with the teacher and principal if necessary. If you teach your child to retaliate, HE will be the one to get in trouble. Unless a teacher sees the whole fight, more than likely what will happen is the child who threw the last punch will be the one in the most trouble.

My children will never be in trouble for defending themselves or each other. If the school has not stepped up and stopped this the first time then I have no problem with my child standing up to the bully. Sure- the school might suspend them but I as their parent will never ever punish them for that- and they know that. In fact- if they did get in trouble for defending themselves when the school failed them- I would probably make a special day of it and take them out to do something fun. I am not saying they should beat people up but there if they have done what they were supposed to (tell the teacher etc.) and nothing changed then they need to stand up for themself. Oh- and the school would not be hearing the last of me if they tried to get my child in trouble for defending themself when the school didn't do what they were supposed to.

 

[bellaprincess98]

I would politely disagree with some of the posters here. Maybe it's a guy thing, but I commend you for trying to teach you child to defend himself, it's all to rare these days. One of the negative consequences of the feminisation of our culture. The major reasons bullying is such a problem in schools these days is that kids have been taught for years to enable them by not fighting back. Like it or not, the teachers can't stop this kind of behavior, the best they can do is make the bullies be more sneaky about it. This leaves the bullies in control, and the good kids feeling helpless. It also teaches your kids that they must always look to authority figures to solve their problems for them, because they don't have the power to deal with it themselves.

Obviously there is a time to walk away and diffuse the situation, but there is also a time to stand your ground and give the other guy a good punch in the nose if it's necessary to defend yourself or others. Sometimes it's the only way to stop further violence. Liberal teaching to the contrary, violence does not beget more violence, weakness does.

I've tried to teach my kids to turn the other cheek and walk away, BUT when that doesn't work, or if you feel yourself or you siblings are threatened, they have the right, and sometimes the obligation to defend themselves. I'd rather pick them up at the police station then the hospital, or the morgue.

Feel free to disagree, just please be polite about it, I know this is very UN-PC
and some feel that can not be tolerated.

I actually agree. I do understand that sometimes the situation does call for walking away, and I do teach that to my son when kids start to talk on the playground. However, I do tell my son to defend himself when someone puts their hands on him. There was this one kid who kept pushing my son on the playground and my son wouldnt do anything. One day me and my husband talked to him about defending himself and the next time this kid pushed him, my son pushed back. Since then he has yet to bother my son again.

So I agree that weekness is what brings on the voilence especially since usually a bully has friends to egg him on, and this makes the bully feel powerful. Now imagine if your child fights back and makes the bully look bad in front of his friends? I think he may thing twice before starting things up again.

 

[crisi]

Someone upthread mentioned Tae Kwon Do. Enroll him in something, let him see if he enjoys it. Being ABLE to defend yourself is important, even if you never need to throw a punch.

In the meantime, try and seperate your son from the bullies. Have him play close to the playground supervisors. Have the gym teacher watch him. Ask to have his desk put close to the teacher. Find some other students (and yeah, first grade girls are really a good choice) to befriend him and step in (first grade girls LOVE to tattle). Work with the school and the teacher in developing a plan.

Find out if the district has a zero tolerance policy on threats. "I'm going to kill you" would result in suspension around here.

 

[sah95]

Your state may have a School Violence Hotline. Missouri's is 1-866-748-7047
If you can't find the one for your state, call this one and get information. Obviously the school isn't helping. Call the hotline. If a kid threatens to kill another student, he/she gets a trip to the mental health center I work at & can't go back to school until the parents bring him/her in for a 'school threat assesment'.

 

[bwilcox]

My children will never be in trouble for defending themselves or each other. If the school has not stepped up and stopped this the first time then I have no problem with my child standing up to the bully. Sure- the school might suspend them but I as their parent will never ever punish them for that- and they know that. In fact- if they did get in trouble for defending themselves when the school failed them- I would probably make a special day of it and take them out to do something fun. I am not saying they should beat people up but there if they have done what they were supposed to (tell the teacher etc.) and nothing changed then they need to stand up for themself. Oh- and the school would not be hearing the last of me if they tried to get my child in trouble for defending themself when the school didn't do what they were supposed to.

My opinion is that it is your responsibility as the parent to make SURE that the school is doing something about the bullying. Document everything, be up at the office everyday if you have to until something is done. If that still doesn't help, threaten legal action. The school has a responsibility to the safety of their students.

 

[Mouse House Mama]

My opinion is that it is your responsibility as the parent to make SURE that the school is doing something about the bullying. Document everything, be up at the office everyday if you have to until something is done. If that still doesn't help, threaten legal action. The school has a responsibility to the safety of their students.

While I agree with you in that it is a parent's responsibility to make sure the school does something once something happens and you have let the school know so they can take action and then it happens again- well I don't expect my kids to wait for the school to buck up. They can stand up for themselves and I will also go to the powers that be.

 

[DreadpiratK]

I completely disagree. If this were true, gang wars wouldn't happen. Violence most definitely does beget more violence, as seen time and again. Just ask anyone living in the Middle East. Or in a urban environment for that matter.

However, There is a thin line before getting into fights and getting walked all over. The two teens in Littleton let themselves be bullied until they snapped.

I don't think your son should let himself be pushed around, either. He needs to make sure someone in authority knows about these situations. If the person watching recess isn't going to do anything about the situation, talk with the teacher, principal, or someone in district administration if you need to.

Those are examples of aggressive violence. Perhaps I should say that force does not beget violence, as in force used in self defense. The fact that weakness begets violence is that football players don't get picked on, those who are perceived as weak get picked on. Unfortunately, running to the teacher is seen as an act of weakness, and occasions more bullying. That's not the way it should be, it's just the way it is.

I'd also like to point out that defending yourself is not 'retaliation' and framing it that way is very counter productive. Stopping someone from doing you or your loved ones physical harm even if it involves hurting them is not retaliation in any way, it is simple self defense. Teaching kids not to cross the line from one to the other is very important, and and conflating the two things makes that impossible. What kind of message do kids get when we tell them that any time they act in their own defense, even if they are being physically harmed, they are wrong and you're going to punish them? How worthless does that make them feel that some bullies well being is apparently more important to you then they are? That's horrible!

 

[Princess Steph]

My DS8 takes martial arts where they teach self-defense skills that really work (he has been able to break free when I hold his arm to keep him close by me-drives me nuts) His instructor is amazing and teaches a program called Bully Guard. All the public schools in the community use this program that teach the staff, students and parents what to do if bullying occurs. He teaches the kids to walk away and tell an adult, but the staff needs to have consequences to make it work. Your school needs a program. This whole bully thing is out of control because the kids get away with it. It is devastating to the child being bullied. Enroll your son in martial arts, it will really help his self-esteem also. Good Luck, I hope the summer break helps.

 

[kinntj]

Definately document everything and keep in contact with the school about this. I would enroll him in a martial arts class of some sorts. It will give him more confidence.

I need to email my DD's teacher about a girl that keeps slapping her butt and continues after my DD tells her to stop. The other girl will continue to do it and do it harder. This other girl has a problem with my DD being friends with one of her friends. A jealousy issue.

I'll be all over that school like white on rice until the problem is solved.

 

[FlightlessDuck]

My children will never be in trouble for defending themselves or each other.

But you don't control school policy. They won't be in trouble WITH YOU, but that doesn't mean they won't be in trouble.

 

[FlightlessDuck]

There's a whole other level to my feelings on this I can't get into because of the rules of this forum. Let's just say it has to do with something a really famous guy once said while teaching a big group of friends up on mount somewhere in Isreal about 2000 years ago. But I've been trying my best here in regards to not how I feel, but how the child in question can get in trouble with his school.

I'd also like to point out that defending yourself is not 'retaliation' and framing it that way is very counter productive.

I'm not sure what we are talking about here. To me "defending yourself" includes blocking kicks and punches from the aggressor in the situation, and finding a way to diffuse the situation or subdue the aggressor with a limited amount of force. Hitting back can become retaliation, because it's easy to go from "defending yourself" to "wanting to hurt the other person".

Stopping someone from doing you or your loved ones physical harm even if it involves hurting them is not retaliation in any way, it is simple self defense.

School, unfortunately, is not the real world. You are legally allowed to defend yourself if someone breaks into your home. If you are caught fighting in school, you get in trouble regardless of whether you are the one who started it or the one defending yourself. It sucks, but it's how it works.

What kind of message do kids get when we tell them that any time they act in their own defense, even if they are being physically harmed, they are wrong and you're going to punish them?

I didn't say I would necessarily punish my children for defending themselves. But I would prefer if they were able to solve the problem some other way. I think what everyone is missing from my argument is that regardless of how a parent feels about the situation, the school may still punish both children.

 

[FlightlessDuck]

Oh- and the school would not be hearing the last of me if they tried to get my child in trouble for defending themself when the school didn't do what they were supposed to.

There's a problem with this thinking. I would be willing to bet the other's kid Mom is saying the same thing. "Jimmy was only defending himself!" Hopefully it wouldn't be the first time little Jimmy got himself into a fight, and the school would be more likely to believe you. But school districts many times have a no tolerance policy, so that might not matter.

A lot of people are reading what I just wrote and are thinking it's not fair. I agree that it's not fair. Fights should be caught before they are started, but everybody is human, so nothing works perfectly. I am not an educator or a child psychologist, so I don't know what the solution is. All I know is how it works right now in a lot of places.

 

[bumbershoot]

To me...if it doesn't bother your son, then...it doesn't bother him. Sure, it bothers you, it bothers me when no one on the playground at the park doesn't play with my son b/c they are all sibling units who have no need for another kid, but doesn't mean I go change the situation. If he doesn't care...

The school is an excellent school.

Doesn't sound like it!

One of the negative consequences of the feminisation of our culture.

Oh My Gosh. WHAT?

The ONLY fights I EVER saw at school were between girls. Only. Feminization, whatever.

DH was a football player and a TKD blackbelt (though actually the belt came later, he had a SERIOUS teacher who didn't just move kids along b/c their parents were tired of paying for tests), and the only time he ever got into anything at school was a VERBAL thing. Which simply required telling the attempted bully that he wasn't being very smart in his constant attempts at insulting DH. DH is Korean, and the other boy was using a different Asian rude slang term to insult DH...DH loudly corrected him and told him to "get it right" if he's going to insult him (though the insult term for Koreans simply means "person", so that's not a good insult ever!).

All that training, and it just took 2 sentences to diffuse the situation.

My DS8 takes martial arts where they teach self-defense skills that really work (he has been able to break free when I hold his arm to keep him close by me-drives me nuts) His instructor is amazing and teaches a program called Bully Guard.

Sounds like you need to talk to his teacher. Because if it was a true martial arts instruction, they would have already made sure the kids knew NOT to use it against their parents. It's NOT good that your son is using it against you to break your grip. Something's wrong in the classroom (she says, channeling her very serious martial arts hubby) if your son thinks that is OK.

 

[DreadpiratK]

Oh My Gosh. WHAT?

LOL, Wondered when someone would pick up on that one. It's not what you think. It's too big and OT here to explain in full, but basically what I am referring to is that a huge percentage of boys grow up in homes without male role models these days. Schools, especially grade schools, have become completely female dominated over the last 30 years. Put these two things together and you get a culture dominated by female sensibilities, and bunch of very confused boys who are trying to figure out how to act like men while being told to basically act like girls. Concurrent with both of these trends school violence and bullying has become epidemic. I'm simply suggesting there is a connection. BTW, before someone thinks I'm insulting single moms, I'm not. The blame for this situation falls squarely on men who have abdicated their responsibilities as role models.

DH was a football player and a TKD blackbelt (though actually the belt came later, he had a SERIOUS teacher who didn't just move kids along b/c their parents were tired of paying for tests), and the only time he ever got into anything at school was a VERBAL thing. Which simply required telling the attempted bully that he wasn't being very smart in his constant attempts at insulting DH. DH is Korean, and the other boy was using a different Asian rude slang term to insult DH...DH loudly corrected him and told him to "get it right" if he's going to insult him (though the insult term for Koreans simply means "person", so that's not a good insult ever!).

All that training, and it just took 2 sentences to diffuse the situation

Excellent example of exactly what I'm talking about. Strength prevents violence. Had your DH not had the confidence and ability to back it up, his 2 sentences would have had no effect except to egg on the bully.

To get back to the OP question, if you're son has the skills and the permission to defend himself, he's much less likely to need to.

 

[Mouse House Mama]

But you don't control school policy. They won't be in trouble WITH YOU, but that doesn't mean they won't be in trouble.

No- they will not be in trouble IF the school had already been notified of the problem and it still persisted. As a parent I would make sure of that. My child will not be a punching bag because the school is not doing their part.

There's a problem with this thinking. I would be willing to bet the other's kid Mom is saying the same thing. "Jimmy was only defending himself!" Hopefully it wouldn't be the first time little Jimmy got himself into a fight, and the school would be more likely to believe you. But school districts many times have a no tolerance policy, so that might not matter.

A lot of people are reading what I just wrote and are thinking it's not fair. I agree that it's not fair. Fights should be caught before they are started, but everybody is human, so nothing works perfectly. I am not an educator or a child psychologist, so I don't know what the solution is. All I know is how it works right now in a lot of places.

Jimmy's Mom can say what she wnts but IF the school dropped the ball then no tolerance goes out the window when they did not provide a safe environment for my child. They are required by law to do so. IF they had been notified and they failed and my child defended themself then no- there will be no punishment for my child. I personally would make sure of that.

 

[Kanga+2Roos]

Tae Kwon Doe--I absolutely recommend this as well (for the 4th or 5th time in the thread). My DS8 has been enrolled in this for 9 months & it has been great to boost his confidence level as well as teach him the skills he needs to defend himself if needed.

We have been having issues as well with a bully that has been tolerated by the school district way too long. This kid has been a problem since preschool & he just keeps picking different boys to target. Well, this year in 2nd grade he is targeting my ds & his friend--to the point where he has gotten physical & kicked them in their privates at different times. The other mom & I have been contacting the school & have had meetings with the principal & they say they'll handle the bully but I'll see him sitting in the office during recess time for about one week & that is the extent of it. Our kids on the other hand are told by the school that if they see him coming they should go hide in any classroom to avoid any confrontation with the bully--yeah, that's great, make the bully get an even bigger head since he can make kids run & hide when he comes! How does that teach our kids that they are in the right?

The other mom got so tired of it that she had a meeting with the principal with her son in tow (after he had been kicked so hard that he had to miss a day of school) & when the principal started with her usual "well, you can't keep your son in a bubble all his life" speech, the mom told her son in front of the principal that she is giving him permission to hit the bully back if he attempts to physically attack him. The principal responded to the student saying "now if you do that you will be the one in the office getting punished". Well, at least he is doing something to defend himself, what choice does he have since the school won't protect him!

I know the schools have a lot of laws to deal with but come on, you need to protect the majority here. You can't tell me that by teaching the other kids to avoid that bully the problem with be eliminated--the schools need to confront the problem head on! I can understand an isolated incident, kids go thru their stages, but when this is an ongoing thing the situation is not being handled!

So, back to my original point--give your son the tools he needs to defend himself if the need arises. Martial Arts is a great route to take since they are teaching him ethics right along with the moves. The kids are taught respect & discipline, not to mention self control. You won't be disappointed!