OT -- helf with 4 year old -- anger prob??

[laurafaith]

hi everyone. im in desperate need of some advice! i have a son who is 4 1/2. and another son that is 5 months. my oldest has always been a pretty good child. but ever since school started (about 3 weeks). like has been very difficult. at first i thought it was a jealosy with the new baby. but i don't think thats what it is. basically he can be great and happy all day and then one little thing just sets him off and he just loses it! like last night we were playing a game and before it was even over he thought his dad was winning so it just set him off. he started yelling and screaming, took his shirt off and threw it accross the room, he was kicking things. this lasted about 45 minutes. he seems to be having one of these eposides every day. its really scaring me. my dh and i have tried everything! we have tried time out, spanking, yelling, ignoring him, talking to him quiet -- nothing is getting through to him. like last night he was screaming so out of control we couldn't even calm him down enough to talk to him. my dh doesn't want me to take to a doc because he is afraid the doc will put him on ritalin and that scares him. but we are at our wits end and don't know what else to do. sorry so long -- thanks for any suggestions!!

 

[LadyShea]

I would take him to the doctor to rule out anything serious. There are many, many possible diagnoses that don't use medications immediately or even at all...and there are all kinds of non-drug therapies. You don't know what might be suggested until you get a diagnosis....if there even is one. This behavior may be normal acting out. Little ones have big emotions, yet few filters or coping mechanisms as yet.

Also, you said this has only been going on three weeks, yet you have tried a series of discipline methods...I see that as possibly exacerbating as you are not responding consistently. From everything I have read consistency is the key to changing behavior.

If he's throwing fits, spanking seems like the wrong thing, to me, I would try "time in" where you hold him and help him calm down by breathing slowly and deeply with him. Explain to him you are holding him because he has lost control and you're there to help him get it back. Speak quietly and soothingly.

Hope you are able to find an answer.

 

[Mkrop]

I think he is possibly overwhlemed by all the changes happening, new baby, school starting again, is he tired or over stimualated? 4yr olds do not know how to properly express their frustatrations all the time so they sometimes flip out. Plus he could be trying to find out who really is in charge and testing his boundaries. You say you have tried everything but I think you need to find one thing and stick with. If it is Tv time, take that away, or a favortite toy etc, if he calms down and explains what is wrong then give him back what you took away, you could even do a chart if necessary.

I dont think you need to panic just yet but if it continues then consult with your ped.

 

[mom2aredhead]

He started pre-K, which is 5 days a week. He previously only went to daycare 2 days a week. He's waking earlier, eating lunch earlier, and pretty much changed the schedule he was on for the first 3.5 years of his life
All of a sudden things that used to be minor are HUGE long full blown screaming yelling temper tantrums. We've tried time out, but frankly he screams so much that I'm afraid the neighbors are going to call child welfare on us at some point. (Only 1/2 kidding btw, it was really loud.)

He loves his toy animals, so we started putting them in time out instead... The louder he screams, more of his friends have to go in the time out box. He can earn them back by good behavior. This seems to be working a little better than putting HIM in time out.

Put a new schedule and your new little one together at the same time and your son's got a lot of changes to deal with all at once. Not to sound preachy or judgemental, but yelling and spanking out of frustration only teaches them to yell and hit when they're frustrated, and that's what you're trying to stop.

 

[pyrxtc]

My 3 yr old has meltdowns liek this every once in a while, heck, all of my kids do. We send them to their room where they can cry and scream as loud as they want to and when they are ready to tell us what they are upset about then they can come back to us. We ignore them til they settle down.

Even if the neighbors call the cops on you, you just have to let them in your house and show them your son freaking out in his room. They are parents too and have seen it all and will understand.

Just keep sending him to his room and ignoring him until he calms down. He will see he gets no attention and will at some point learn to calm down faster and use his verbal skills. I'm not going to get on you about the spanking cuz my kids still get a swift one every now and then. It's not hard but it reminds them of what the rules are.

 

[StephMK]

Is he in full day or preschool? Is he getting enough sleep? Is it just at home? I know my 3 kids are overtired when they start melting down. And they've all taken turns melting down once school started back up. DS (just started full day K) is still having some trouble just at home. Moody, crying, etc.

Sometimes I think just being "good" and following rules all day wears them out & they have to release it somewhere. Try starting bedtime earlier & see if that helps at all. Quiet time, bath, books, as relaxing as possible.

Also, how about a sticker chart? For each day (or hour if it's really bad) he can go w/o a tantrum, he gets a sticker & if he gets x many, he can pick a special treat - outing or whatever.

Good luck! I know it's exhausting to go through that daily!

 

[nessz79]

Is he in full day or preschool? Is he getting enough sleep? Is it just at home? I know my 3 kids are overtired when they start melting down. And they've all taken turns melting down once school started back up. DS (just started full day K) is still having some trouble just at home. Moody, crying, etc.

Sometimes I think just being "good" and following rules all day wears them out & they have to release it somewhere. Try starting bedtime earlier & see if that helps at all. Quiet time, bath, books, as relaxing as possible.

I totally agree with this. Our kids just started preschool in August for the first time (DS 4.5 and DS 3) and there have been a lot of meltdowns. I think what it is : a combination of being overtired/overstimulated and having to be "good" all day. It's exhausting for young children.

I agree with the previous poster who mentioned sending them to their rooms and letting them get it all out in there. Sometimes if you take away their audience, they get the picture that it's not going to get them anything special to have a tantrum. I did this with my 4.5 year old one day and he hasn't had another serious tantrum since (it was serious, not a minor crying thing...screaming uncontrollably). Although we believe in spanking for certain things, I wouldn't spank for this...it usually just aggravates them even more.

 

[hildarumpole]

He may simply be overtired from the new school schedule. Try adjusting his bedtime. My oldest son has always had problems if he doesn't get enough sleep, even if it's off by 1 hr. He needed 12 hrs. of sleep until he was 10 yrs. old. He used to whine about the 7 pm bedtime, but the whining and moodiness was 10x worse if we let him stay up an hour later the night before. I would also suggest you talk to your son's teacher to find out if he acts out at all at school or if there might be some conflict with a classmate.

 

[PollyannaMom]

Another vote for more sleep.

My 6-year-old has definitely been tired earlier now that he's at school full days.

 

[hebbynan]

We just took our oldest son (7) to a therapist yesterday to talk about this exact thing. He's great in school, advanced for his age, well mannered, but when he's home, the smallest thing (for example, today he put on button jeans instead of snap ones and he couldn't get it buttoned and he flipped out!) sets him off. There was nothing that would indicate ADD or ADHD (I didn't think it could be that as he pays attention in school). They did suggest a few things......more sleep, ignoring the fits (yeah, like that's possible.....I've tried!) and even getting him tested at school to see if he's gifted. They said that sometimes gifted children lash out like that at home because they view school as such a bore because their mind isn't challenged. I never thought that could do that. How is he doing in school? Does he get along with the other kids? Is it possible that someone is bullying him? Is he on parr with the work they are doing in the class? Just some thoughts. Our therapist gave us a lot to think about. Maybe you should consider going to one too. I was set against it at first, but I'm glad that I let my sister in law talk me into it. It really gave me information I wasn't aware of before.

I wish you lots of luck!!!!!!!!

 

[jagafen]

Our son (4 1/2) just went through a phase like this at the sitters....

she said he was having a lot of tantrums during the day, and wouldn't calm down when she tried to talk to him. After about 2 weeks of her complaining about his behavior, and me telling her he didn't act like this at home (another story there) I was afraid she would tell us we couldn't bring him anymore! I went to the $ store and craft store and bought some stuff (some on clearance from AC MOore) to put in the "prize box". I explained to our son that if he had a good day (meaning ONLY no tantrums) he could pick a prize out of the box when he got home. Instead of sending him to his room for tantrumming at the sitters and trying other negative consequences for the "bad" behavior, we started rewarding the behavior we wanted to see out of him.

It really worked, for a few reasons, I think...what kid doesn't like picking out a prize? Also, I think he was tantrumming to get negative attention from the sitter...if he tantrummed at home, he got sent to his room (no attention from mom and dad)...tantrum over pretty quickly because he wanted to be with us. At the sitters, she didn't have a "quiet place" that was out of her eyesight and out of the eyesight of the other kids. We just had to figure out what he wanted more than the negative attention (e.g. acting out to get attention, rather than being good to get positive attention...not one of her strong points.) It took about 2 weeks of daily rewards (cost $10) before the tantrums weren't an issue. Then we moved to 1 reward for 2 days of good behavior, and by the third week, we weren't rewarding him at all, and he's still behaving. It's been about a month now, and we have an "angel" at the sitter's because he learned that good t hings happen if he's good.

All of that said, naps could be an issue too. OUr son still needs his afternoon nap, and we can tell when he hasn't had it!!! Whatever you do, good luck....I know how frustrating this can be!!!

 

[SmallWorld71]

Sounds like my own 4 1/2 year old. She is wonderful at pre-school, great for Daddy and Grandma who watch her the rest of the day. And then has her meltdowns in the evening for Mommy. While I am not trying to belittle your problem it sounds like typical behavior for someone of that age who is over tired and/ or overwhelmed. My daughter goes to bed at 7:30 once pre-school starts up for the year. I think your best solution is to try to head things off before they get out of hand if you can. (Earlier bedtime, bath, story whatever is relaxing.Try to avoid things that could provoke a melt down. Ex. A game where there is a winner and a loser.) And, don't try to rationalize with him if things get out of hand. When kids are tired, all reasoning goes out the window. Good luck!

 

[amyhughes]

Oh my gosh... I thought we were alone!

We are having the same issues with our 3 yo. He just started flipping out at school when they implemented more "Structured" activities and cut way back on the free play. Also they changed around the schedule for snacks etc. and that gets him ALL upset! At first we thought, "Phase", then it kept on. Well, smarty pants realized he was getting OH SO MUCH ATTENTION by acting out, that in a roomful of kids he wanted to be the cut up. So we are reteaching him. I took him to the pediatrician and she said it probably is that, plus he has speech delay so he can't exactly say EVERYTHING that he is angry about, so that just frustrates him more. Add to that mixture my MOST strongwilled child and you see where there can be fireworks.

The amazing thing, he only acts like this at school where he knows he can get away with it. At home, we did spank a couple of times, but have since just started to look away. Now, we OVERPRAISE when he goes potty, helps clean up, learns a new skill, or just calms himself down.

I think with your son, being older and FLIPPING out, it is a natural part of a reaction. Somehow he has gotten the idea that lashing out is acceptable, maybe not in your home, but possibly from another child's behavior in class? Your job will be to reteach him what is acceptable in a manner that is positive reinforcement. Set his boundaries and keep to them when these fits start. You mentioned that you have tried many things to get him to calm down. My advice is several things. The first of which is when he starts throwing fits IGNORE the heck out of him, go so far as to attempt a normal conversation with your DH. However when he calms down praise him for calming down. It will take some time of CONSTANT reinforcement, he won't learn overnight.

My older son gets dramatic about small things as well because to him, they ARENT small things. Losing at a game, not being able to go outside, me forgetting his juice cup, or asking him to get dressed. All these things can set him off because he is really starting to FEEL and sum up reasons behind actions. In all, I wouldn't worry overly. Speak with his teacher about what his behavior is like during the day. Ask him about his feelings, discuss what is appropriate angry behavior and what is not. We have spoken with our older son about how it is okay to be angry, and perfectly natural. Important part of the discussion: However, it is not okay to lose your cool and lash out. I can understand the frightening portion of when your son lashes out.

Given the recent start of school and these new fits I can see a correlation. If he went to school beforehand, or daycare maybe he is reacting to the idea that this is something that is BEYOND his control. Whether he likes it or not he is on a new schedule, doing new things, being around new people. Preschoolers like their options and to feel that they have some say in their days. However minimal it may be, everyday with my sons I try to allow them to choose a few activities that are in their scope to choose. Say I ask: "What would you like for snack? Goldfish or Pretzels?" or for DVD time, "Would you like to work on your letters or watch Laurie Berkner?" this gives them some say.

There is a wonderful book out there called, "The Way I Feel", and it wonderfully illustrates many feelings and helps your children understand that everyone feels many ways at any time. Another activity you can do with your son is act out his feelings together, use stuffed animals or hand puppets.

My thoughts are with you on this one!

 

[Aliceacc]

For a child, school is exhausting and overwhelming. He's away from you, having a great time, but still SURE that you and the baby are having a wild party without him. He misses you and is afraid that maybe you don't miss him as much.

Could you build a little "snuggle time" into each day? When my son hit that stage, he was a real Mary Poppins fan. Each afternoon after school, we would get into my bed, put his younger sister in for her nap, and put the MP video on. If one of us fell asleep, great. If not, it was some one on one time that we both loved.

A physical isn't a bad idea, but I'm guessing he had one over the summer before school started. If not, then consider it.

Hang in there, try to stay patient, and give him lots of extra love as he figures it all out. Bump bed time up a little each day so he gets the sleep he so desperately needs. You'll get your old son back soon.

 

[littleteapot]

Is he eating something at school that he has never had before. He could also have a chemical sensitivity to something in his classroom. Is he better on the weekend? You may want to check out the www.feingold.org.

 

[momof5boys]

I'll make this easy for you. Go buy a book called 1,2,3 Magic. It's enjoyable to read(they nail behavors like this on the head, found myself laughing alot because it was like at my house) Just be prepared if you have a stubborn kid(I have 2) When they were carried to their rooms for timeout(yes carried they would not walk there themselves!) I had to hold the door shut for their timeout duration(1 minute per age) That lasted a week after that they just took themselves to their rooms! It's great but you have to stick with it! Now all I have to do is stay 1 and usually the behavior stops!

 

[tweedlemom]

Ugh! That was my son, too. Same tantrums, yelling, screaming, hitting, even spitting, out of control behavior. We increased the quiet book time, decreased the tv time, adjusted the bed time (he's an early riser-6 AM so we made sure he went to bed early enough to get 10-12 hours sleep), implemented a ticket reward system (1 ticket for every good day at school w/ no tantrums--he picks what prize he wants to earn off a prize chart), made sure he got lots of running around time in the back yard, and when it was bad weather we busted out the mini trampoline in the living room so he could get his energy out. We taught him how to relax (breathe in, breathe out) and say "I'm mad!" instead of hitting. Also, we took a good look at ourselves--the voices, volume, words and actions my husband and I used--to make sure we were practicing what we preached. We are all a lot calmer now. I do think my son just needed to mature out of it too. But I also think once we started POURING on the love and the compliments, he felt more secure in himself and he started to relax, knowing mommy and daddy would love him no matter what.

 

[laurafaith]

i just wanted to say thanks for all the support of all the moms on the disboards! what a wonderful forum for us to be able to come together and support each other! thanks again for all the tips, ideas, and encouragment -- its nice to know im not the only one out there! thanks alot to u all!

 

[DawnM]

I held the door shut for over an hour once and over 30 minutes each time while ds screamed and yelled on the other side of the door and kicked the door and cried.

After SEVERAL weeks of this, we found that this method simply didn't work for our son. It was sheer torture on all of us.

The magic just doesn't work for everyone.

Dawn

I'll make this easy for you. Go buy a book called 1,2,3 Magic. It's enjoyable to read(they nail behavors like this on the head, found myself laughing alot because it was like at my house) Just be prepared if you have a stubborn kid(I have 2) When they were carried to their rooms for timeout(yes carried they would not walk there themselves!) I had to hold the door shut for their timeout duration(1 minute per age) That lasted a week after that they just took themselves to their rooms! It's great but you have to stick with it! Now all I have to do is stay 1 and usually the behavior stops!

 

[eh24fan]

We just took our oldest son (7) to a therapist yesterday to talk about this exact thing. He's great in school, advanced for his age, well mannered, but when he's home, the smallest thing (for example, today he put on button jeans instead of snap ones and he couldn't get it buttoned and he flipped out!) sets him off. There was nothing that would indicate ADD or ADHD (I didn't think it could be that as he pays attention in school). They did suggest a few things......more sleep, ignoring the fits (yeah, like that's possible.....I've tried!) and even getting him tested at school to see if he's gifted. They said that sometimes gifted children lash out like that at home because they view school as such a bore because their mind isn't challenged. I never thought that could do that. How is he doing in school? Does he get along with the other kids? Is it possible that someone is bullying him? Is he on parr with the work they are doing in the class? Just some thoughts. Our therapist gave us a lot to think about. Maybe you should consider going to one too. I was set against it at first, but I'm glad that I let my sister in law talk me into it. It really gave me information I wasn't aware of before.

I wish you lots of luck!!!!!!!!

You just described my 7 yr old. Right down the the hissy fit over the jeans!!! He is in the accelerate/gifted class at school, plays flag football, is a goo dkid, until NOTHING sets him off! I know it's just not me now...I will read on. :O)