Oppositional child advice

[torinsmom]

Okay, me again.

I just noticed that you are a Montessori type facility...

As the mother of a child who has had some issues, I can only say that, in our experience, this would have been just TOTALLY wrong for my child.

This may be one of those children who need constant structure, routine, regulation, hand-hold leading/coaching by the adult, etc.... Children like this may not have the ability to handle situations like this independently.

Okay, my first suggestion is to create that 'bubble' and that 'structure' around this child. Give him what we might call 'preferential seating'... his own desk not within any easy arms distance from other children. His own manageble area. If he chooses to stay there all the time, instead of circle time, activity time, etc... Let it be.... The objective should be for him to able to deal with being in the classroom... Learning by listening and by association... Not by being pushed into tasks and activities that he has shown are well beyond his abilities to handle. Let this child decide how much he wishes to participate.

Find ways to let him participate as much as possible within these above parameters. He can still experience and do a lot of what the other kids are doing, just in his own preferential area 'bubble'.

Throughout the day, always, always, keep in mind, that what is going on might be really great for most other kids, but might really be pushing this child's thresholds.

I think you will see a HUGE decrease in meltdowns this way.

It sounds like you are a great teacher and really want to help this child!

So, if my input might help in any way, I just wanted to give my two cents worth.

That is one of my feelings, that Montessori is just not the right environment for this child. We are a public Montessori, so we do have an EC dept and all that. The "problem" is that our students are able to choose their "work" independently and the students are freely moving about the classroom and talking to each other for most of the day. It probably seems very chaotic to many people, especially at the beginning of the year. If everyone was doing the same thing at the same time, like at most traditional schools, and sitting at a desk listening to the teacher, it might be easier for him to fall into a routine. I also think 20 kids is too much for him to deal with.

He hasn't made it to circle time since his first day(which was a 1/2 day with just the kindergarteners) That day he sat on circle fine, although he wanted to sit on the H(his name starts with H) every time. I didn't have assigned spots yet, but now the H is going to be his spot, and I have the spots on either side of him empty, with me next to one of the empty spots.

A big problem we have had is him swinging materials, which we cannot allow due to the danger of someone getting hurt. He won't stop doing it unless you physically take the object from him, which usually incites a tantrum.

I am hoping the behavior person will shed some light on things tomorrow. I want what's best for this child, but I am not willing to be continually hit and kicked. I also can't focus on him only and neither can my assistant.

 

[Wishing on a star]

It is a Montessori magnet school, so it is not his base school. He may do better at a traditional school, but that would not be my decision.

This, I think, is the bottom line.
Did you post that some of the school staff involved were considering that it might be best to move him to a more traditional school setting????
It might not be YOUR decision (and it shouldn't be) but as his teacher, and the one who has observed and handled this child in the classroom, I do feel that you have every right, and even a big responsibility, to make your case that this Montessori type approach might NOT be appropriate for a child like this young boy.

If this is what might be right and best for this child, then that is what you owe him.

If this is a magnet school, how did he become enrolled?
Does this mean that his parents applied to get him in the magnet????

Torinsmom, we all agree that you should not be continually be subjected to physical hitting, kicking, and 'rage' meltdowns.

In no way are we suggesting that you endure that, and devote 24/7 to this one child.

These things are not what are being suggested here. I think it is obvious that there are some serious underlying issues here, and that we are just trying to support you and make suggestions on how best to handle this for the here-and-now.

This unfortunate child apparantly has some problems/conditions... His parents seem to be trying to do their best.... there is a meeting scheduled... Things ARE going in the right direction.

The school's policy seems to be that when a child becomes completely out of control, they call the parents and send the child home. (THEY ARE LUCKY THAT THEY ARE ABLE TO DO THIS... MANY PARENTS WOULD NOT BE SO QUICK TO RUN UP TO THE SCHOOL AT THE DROP OF A HAT...MANY PARENTS WOULD SAY, "HE'S AT SCHOOL, WHERE HE NEEDS TO BE, AND YOU NEED TO DO YOUR JOB TO DEAL WITH/HANDLE THIS.)

If this is the policy... in the meantime, your job is not to label this kid 'oppositional' and to exacerbate the situation by allowing triggers to continually cause combustion. What I was trying to say in my earlier post is that it should be your goal simply to help this boy manage to stay in school, in the classroom, for as long as possible. I offered suggestions as to how one might go about this.

From what you have described, it sounds like this would be MORE than difficult if you are locked in to this Montessori type set-up. I honestly don't know if this is completely mandated to you, or if it just happens to be your preference.

Either way, I agree that it might not be possible to meet this child's needs in your current type of classroom environment. If you are not able, at all, to modify anything in the classroom.... I would, absolutely, recommend that this child be placed in a more structured and traditional school/classroom in order to best meet his needs.

 

[torinsmom]

This, I think, is the bottom line.
Did you post that some of the school staff involved were considering that it might be best to move him to a more traditional school setting????
It might not be YOUR decision (and it shouldn't be) but as his teacher, and the one who has observed and handled this child in the classroom, I do feel that you have every right, and even a big responsibility, to make your case that this Montessori type approach might NOT be appropriate for a child like this young boy.

If this is what might be right and best for this child, then that is what you owe him.

If this is a magnet school, how did he become enrolled.
Does this mean that his parents applied to get him in the magnet????

Torinsmom, we all agree that you should not be continually be subjected to physical hitting, kicking, and 'rage' meltdowns.

In no way are we suggesting that you endure that, and devote 24/7 to this one child.

These things are not what are being suggested here. I think it is obvious that there are some serious underlying issues here, and that we are just trying to support you and make suggestions on how best to handle this for the here-and-now.

This unfortunate child apparantly has some problems/conditions... His parents seem to be trying to do their best.... there is a meeting scheduled... Things ARE going in the right direction.

The school's policy seems to be that when a child becomes completely out of control, they call the parents and send the child home. (THEY ARE LUCKY THAT THEY ARE ABLE TO DO THIS... MANY PARENTS WOULD SAY, "HE'S AT SCHOOL, WHERE HE NEEDS TO BE, AND YOU NEED TO DO YOUR JOB TO DEAL WITH/HANDLE THIS.)

If this is the case... in the meantime, your job is not to label this kid 'oppositional' and to exacerbate the situation by allowing triggers to continually cause combustion. What I was trying to say in my earlier post is that it should be your goal simply to help this boy manage to stay in school, in the classroom, for as long as possible. I offered suggestions as to how one might go about this.

From what you have described, t sounds like this would be MORE than difficult if you are locked in to this Montessori type set-up. I honestly don't know if this is completely mandated to you, or if it just happens to be your preference.

Either way, I agree that it might be impossible to meet this child's needs in your current type of classroom environment. If you are not able, at all, to modify anything in the classroom.... I would, absolutely, recommend that this child be places in a more structured and traditional school/classroom in order to best meet his needs.

Yes, when I asked my principal about the possibility of getting a "shadow" person, as he had at his previous school, he said that has to be decided by the district. He said that in his experience, they would suggest the child be moved to a more traditional setting before a one on one aide would be considered. I WILL mention at the meeting that our classroom is not as structured as traditional classrooms, and that this may make it harder for the child to manage his own behavior.

His parents entered him into our lottery. They live within our walk zone, so they automatically got in. I don't know their rationale--maybe they thought more choice would be better for him?

Yes, I guess we are lucky that his parents are willing to come and get him. Otherwise, he would be in and out of the classroom all day, because every time he had an "incident", he would need to go to the principal(required by our school when a child is disrupting the classroom). I don't know if this would be better or worse for him than going home.

I am actually not the one who "labeled" him oppositional. That is what mom calls his behavior. I have actually taught a child with ODD and ADHD and he was not like this. This child goes from 0 to 100 in 5 seconds. The other child took several minutes to get into a rage, and I could usually catch it and distract or calm him down. I don't know what this is, because I have never seen anything like it.

I am passionate about Montessori and specifically chose this school because it is Montessori. I believe it is the best way to teach each child at their own individual level. It is actually really good for kids with learning disabilities and even kids with ADHD. They get to move at their own pace and they aren't stuck sitting in a desk and doing the same thing everyone else is doing. If I was asked to change my teaching method, I am sure my principal and the other parents would back me up as well.

Thanks for all your suggestions. Tomorrow is a new day and every day when he comes in, I greet him with a big smile and a clean slate. I am hoping for the best, especially with the behavior person being there.

Marsha

 

[Wishing on a star]

Thanks Marsha!!!!

Wow, I hadn't even thought that the mother would be using this term!!!!

While these parents might be well-meaning, I am not convinced that they are on the complete right track with their son.

While I do see signs of the types of disability that have been mentioned here on this thread.... I have to say that the instant 'rage' sounds like a whole different animal. Something in addition to, not necessarily a part of, the ASD type of disability. Anxiety and meltdowns... You bet.... Rage, not so.... It does, almost, sound scary.

I do hope for the best for this boy!
And, I know how HARD this must be for you as the teacher (and his parents too, of course)

I do think that the one and only objective here, for this time being, while this is being processed thru the appropriate channels, is for this child to be able to be in your classroom for as long as possible. ( NOT learn to participate in the montessori type learning situation)

I do think that, just possibly, even in your classroom, there are adjustments that can and should be made.

I don't know what other thoughts I can offer.
Maybe some other DISers will have more ideas.

I do think that it is obvious that unless some change occurs... there will be no change in this child's situation.

PS: About the 'swinging' behaviors.... This sounds like some kind of OCD or stemming behavior?????
Is there some way that you can come up with some type of item or gadget, light-weight, etc.... that would be safe for him to have???

 

[Eeyores Butterfly]

I work with a child who has oppositional defiant disorder. It is very tough. Many of the behaviors you describe I have seen. I have also seen the 0-100 in 10 seconds. We use a program called BIST (Behavior Intervention Support Team.) It is designed for "chronic" kids with behavior problems. Basically, they get one warning per activity to do the right thing. If they do not, then they go the safe seat. From there they go to the buddy room or recovery room if they are not okay. We have very specific words we use when dealing with this student. "I know this is hard, but can you go to the safe seat?" When I "process", I have a very specific way in which I do it. The conversation usually looks something like this:

"How are you doing?"
"Can you tell me why you're here." If at this point the child cannot or tries to blame somebody else, I say, "I can see that you're not ready to talk. I'll come back in a few minutes." And then I leave. I don't argue or get into power struggles.

Once the child admits to the problem, I will restate. I will then ask them how they were feeling. It might look like this, "Were you feeling mad when you called me an idiot?" (Or whateve the infraction.) Next we try to empathize with the child, "I would be mad too if somebody told me to do somethign I didn't want to do." We have three "goals for life" that we use (I can be okay when I'm mad, I can follow directions when I don't want to, or I can be okay when others aren't) We have the kid connect the behavior to one of the goals. Then we ask a question like, "When you're mad, do you always have to go the safe seat?" After that, we have the child come up with a plan to be successful and we practice it with the child.

It's tough, and the child will fight you every step of the way initially. Some days are good, some days are bad. (Friday I felt like just quitting I was so frustrated.) We also triage with the child mutliple times a day where we ask him how he is feeling and try to prevent problems before they start.

ETA: We were told in the training I took this summer to help me wit hthis child that you cannot be too structured in your setting when dealing with these children. I use visual schedules and timers. We review expectations constantly and I have them on posters around the room with pictures of the kids doing them. I am very specific in what I want. For instance, when we walk in the hallway the kids have "bear tails" (hands behind their backs) and "bubbles" (cheeks puffed out like a bubble). They walk with one tile in between them in line with the colored tiles so they are not on the wall. They all have line spots with their name on it and they line up the same way every time. This is just one example. It sounds like this student really needs that kind of structure and that simply is not the place for him.

Final ETA: One of the trainings I did was on kids with mental illness. And one thing that stuck out to me was that childhood bipolar can sometimes be mistaken for ODD. When they are in the manic phase, they can rage very quickly. Our trainer said you can recognize a neurological rage (as she called it) because the child will get a glazed look and will truly not remember what they are doing. She said a child with ODD has controlled rages. She said in a neurological rage a child will punch the wall and keep doing it even though their hand is broken because they truly do not feel it and are beyond control. In a controlled rage, the child will essentially pretend to punch the wall but will not because they do have a sense of self preservation. Does that make sense? not trying to diagnose, but thought I would trhow that out there as I had never heard it before this summer.