Oppositional child advice

[torinsmom]

I teach preK/K and we have a very oppositional child 5 year old(almost 6) in our class. He has been sent home for 4 of the 5 days we have been in school, each time for hitting or kicking me or another teacher. He can be a sweet child, and is intelligent, but if he is requested to do anything he doesn't want to do, he goes from 0 to 100 in about 10 seconds. I feel like a failure as a teacher, because I should be able to deal with any child, right? I have already read a few books on "difficult" children since school started, but none of the things suggested seem to help. I have given him plenty of notice about transitions and talked to him about expectations while he is in a good state of mind. There are certain things we don't expect from him, even though it is expected of the other children(tucking in chairs or rolling his work rug) because it is not important enough to risk a meltdown.

If you have or have had a child like this, do you have any ideas for me? It is affecting my whole class and I feel like I am walking on egg shells.

 

[golfgal]

What have his parents said? Are they working on his behavior at home too?

 

[rwdavis2]

As a teacher it's not your problem. You can only do so much. Where are the parents?
BD

 

[NikiM20]

If he is intelligent, he probably has realized by now that hitting= going home. This may be why he is doing it. Set firm boundries and don't sway from them. I used to work with special needs children and I had to do this. The first week was awful, alot of crying and inappropriate behaviors, the second week was a little better and it got better as time went on. HTH

 

[torinsmom]

His parents are at their wits end as well. They were the first to tell me about his challenges and apologized in advance for his behavior. He had a one on one support person at his preschool, so this has been ongoing. The letter from his previous school confirmed that this is what they dealt with all year. I don't think the behavior is just to go home; he is seriously in a rage. I have never seen a child's face change like this. There has been lots of testing, but no definitive answers.

 

[DawnM]

It sounds like he needs to be tested.

My oldest had all sorts of problems in preschool and early school and NOONE would test him.

Finally we got the diagnosis of Asperger's and I can't tell you what a difference it has made to KNOW what was going on and how to better deal with it!

We were told it must be the way we parent (all they had to do was look at my other son who was happy go lucky and the teachers LOVED to know that wasn't the case!), or it must be his diet, or it must be X,Y, or Z. We felt like complete failures as parents for a very long time due to everyone telling us it was our fault.

We went though wrong diagnoses many times as well.....ADHD, ODD, and a few others. It was horrible.

Dawn

 

[torinsmom]

It sounds like he needs to be tested.

My oldest had all sorts of problems in preschool and early school and NOONE would test him.

Finally we got the diagnosis of Asperger's and I can't tell you what a difference it has made to KNOW what was going on and how to better deal with it!

We were told it must be the way we parent (all they had to do was look at my other son who was happy go lucky and the teachers LOVED to know that wasn't the case!), or it must be his diet, or it must be X,Y, or Z. We felt like complete failures as parents for a very long time due to everyone telling us it was our fault.

We went though wrong diagnoses many times as well.....ADHD, ODD, and a few others. It was horrible.

Dawn

Did he have these severe oppositional behaviors as well? This child also has some sensory issues, or so I have been told. He hasn't been in the classroom long enough for me to see those. I have been able to glimpse his intelligence when we were talking on the playground and a few times when he was not having a hard time in the classroom. Aspergers is one thing that the parents did not mention him having been tested for.

 

[golfgal]

I would start looking into diet or other allergies for this kid. Can you do home visits or do you have a school counselor that can? That might give you some insight to what is going on. I don't know what testing they have done but it might be worth more investigation along that line.

 

[torinsmom]

We don't do home visits as teachers, and I have never heard of the guidance counselor doing that either. I am not able to suggest anything as far as diagnosis, but I can ask if they have ever had him checked for allergies, since that isn't a psychiatric diagnosis. Sometimes I wish we could just hook people up to diagnostic machines like we do cars and get a readout to tell us what is wrong and how to "fix" it. Poor kid is obviously not enjoying himself, and I can't imagine the strain his parents are under.

 

[golfgal]

We don't do home visits as teachers, and I have never heard of the guidance counselor doing that either. I am not able to suggest anything as far as diagnosis, but I can ask if they have ever had him checked for allergies, since that isn't a psychiatric diagnosis. Sometimes I wish we could just hook people up to diagnostic machines like we do cars and get a readout to tell us what is wrong and how to "fix" it. Poor kid is obviously not enjoying himself, and I can't imagine the strain his parents are under.

I should have said "school psychologist" vs counselor. Has he been assessed by the special ed team yet?

 

[torinsmom]

I should have said "school psychologist" vs counselor. Has he been assessed by the special ed team yet?

We don't have a school psychologist. There is one contracted who does the testing. He just started last Monday, so he has not been assessed at school yet. He has been assessed before, but mom said no diagnosis. We have a meeting 9/13 to start the process. There is a behavior intervention person coming Tuesday, but not sure what his role will be. I think it will just be to observe the behavior and make suggestions. I think he needs someone one on one if he is going to continue at our school. It is a Montessori magnet school, so it is not his base school. He may do better at a traditional school, but that would not be my decision.

 

[happily single]

Sounds a lot like my child. He was finally diagnosised with PDD and mild MR and they suspect Central Audiotory Processing Disorder (which unfortunately cannot be confirmed due to mild MR).

I would suggest picking that child to be your "special helper". My son also enjoys being a "mentor" type to the younger kids. It could also be that the classroom is too large, loud, etc. Do you have any type of cushion that he can sit on during the day?

So you could begin by "ALl right class, it's now time to push our chairs in. Joey, can you show the class how it's done". Have "joey" do special things, such as help pass out papers, etc.

It doesn't sound like diet. This kid only has outbursts when asked to do an unpreferred activity. So you do have to stick to it and continue with the consquences although I would not send him home everyday. That was happening wiht my son. He would refuse to get on the bus or would act up on the bus, knowing I would have to come and pick him up.

PS you are NOT a failure as a teacher. It took 6 years for this behavoir to continue, you can't expect to fix it immediately

 

[torinsmom]

Sounds a lot like my child. He was finally diagnosised with PDD and mild MR and they suspect Central Audiotory Processing Disorder (which unfortunately cannot be confirmed due to mild MR).

I would suggest picking that child to be your "special helper". My son also enjoys being a "mentor" type to the younger kids. It could also be that the classroom is too large, loud, etc. Do you have any type of cushion that he can sit on during the day?

So you could begin by "ALl right class, it's now time to push our chairs in. Joey, can you show the class how it's done". Have "joey" do special things, such as help pass out papers, etc.

It doesn't sound like diet. This kid only has outbursts when asked to do an unpreferred activity. So you do have to stick to it and continue with the consquences although I would not send him home everyday. That was happening wiht my son. He would refuse to get on the bus or would act up on the bus, knowing I would have to come and pick him up.

PS you are NOT a failure as a teacher. It took 6 years for this behavoir to continue, you can't expect to fix it immediately

Unfortunately, the outbursts have been so frequent that he doesn't stay in the class long enough to get to do the special things, or to sit on a cushion. Once he gets upset (because he doesn't want to come to circle, or he doesn't want to start swinging a book by its spine, etc), his behavior escalates until he is violent and he keeps screaming at the top of his lungs, "I HATE this school! It's ugly! I hate you! I'm going to kick you!" and on and on. He has outbursts when he doesn't want to go out or when he doesn't want to go in. He has outbursts when he wants to do a work and someone else is doing it, and he has outbursts when someone else wants to do the work he is doing.

I am hoping that the behavior intervention person can shed some light tomorrow. Maybe they shouldn't send him home, but I also don't want to get hit and kicked all day every day.

 

[disneyelaine]

Your school can not and is not meeting this child's needs. I know.....this could have been my child you are talking about. My son did not start this extreme behavior until 3rd grade though. Right when tasks at school got too hard for him. My son was sent home immediately which only reinforced the behavior, but that is what usually happens. And really the worst thing you can do. But I understand as a parent why it is done. I bet you anything this child is on the autism spectrum, and maybe has some ld's or other issues as well.

For us, we now homeschool. Have for 4 years now. It was the best decision! Sure he still has him moments, but certainly no meltdowns like at school. His self esteem is way better. We teach during "teachable moments." Some days go better than others but I give him a hard task, then a easy task to even it all. Helps. I should mention at one point the school was suppose to give my son one on one instruction that he needed....never happened. Just the way it is. We also had behavior specialist, psychologist, observers come in to the school for help. It did not help a thing.

Bottom line, my child's needs were so extreme that they would never be able to be addressed in the public school, in a regular classroom with 20/30 other kids. My son has a normal IQ, which while good, made him hard to place. Our district either has the MR Unit (where he does not fit at all) or the...I forget the name, but the Unit where they place the types who steal, start fires, etc....He did not belong there! Maybe you live is a large town where there is a specialized school. The parents will have a long hard fight to get him placed there most likely. Especailly if it is a costly school. That option was not available to my son as nearest school was 2 hrs away.

As a teacher, there isn't really much you are going to be able to do. This is over your head most likely. I've lived it for 14 yrs now and it still is over my head! It is very sad and my heart goes out for this little boy. Trust me, he does not want to behave this way.

He definately needs a full time one on one aid. Maybe you can help get that going. I found out straight from our special ed's teacher's mouth, that no aides get assigned unless parents scream at the admin. about it. So coach the parents on what lengths they will have to go thru.

Or maybe it's not that bad in your district.

Good suggestion to make him a helper, leader of some sort. Find something he is good at or likes to talk about and plan a lesson around that. But get the one on one aide so she can take him out of the room BEFORE he meltdowns. With sensory issues he needs a good Occupational Therapist to work with him and give him a "sensory diet." Take him out for a walk, he may need compressions which the OT can show you how to do.

And trust me, do a home visit if you want, but it is NOT always the parents!
Sorry, my pet peeve on people quick to blame parents. Like Dawn M, I have another son who never had these or any bad behaviors. But then, my other son is not on the autism spectrum either.

Schools normally won't/don't test for autism. They will have to get that done outside the school, then take the report to them. We went to Cincinnati Children's hospital. Oh a pediatric Neurologist testing is good too. We had an MRI done to rule anything out there. I feel for the parents (and you as a teacher), this can be a long road. We had a 9 mth wait at Children's Autism Center just for our 1st appointment.

Best Wishes.

 

[disneyelaine]

Wait, are you by UNC?

I know I am jumping the gun but there is a great program there.

www.teacch.com

Check that out.

 

[torinsmom]

As a teacher, I am not able to suggest a diagnosis or refer them to somewhere like TEACHH(which, by the way, has a LONG wait list) I will mention it to the EC facilitator before our meeting and maybe she can suggest it.

I definitely feel bad for the child. I think the majority of his behavior is beyond his control. His parents seem to be trying really hard and had a conference with us before school about his issues. Poor mom has been crying at drop-off when he is already upset(didn't get there when he wanted to, or had to walk instead of riding his scooter)

The behavior specialist will make some recommendations on what to do next. My principal believes that they will recommend him switching to a traditional setting vs. our Montessori school before putting a one on one person with him in the classroom. There may just be too much freedom in our classroom for him to function at his best. We also have a meeting Sept 13 with the parents and EC team to hopefully get the testing process started.

 

[Wishing on a star]

Torinsmom,

From the details that you have given, I have to agree with the 'guesses' about possible disability. Very much so. The behaviors and the triggers that you list seem to possibly be pieces of the puzzle.

Being intelligent, but being completely unable to deal with cooperative 'group' activities... Tasks and activities that require physical coordination and visual-spatial skills (rolling up the mat, etc..), sensory integration issues, very easily triggered meltdowns, etc... These all say a lot.

Okay, you also said that this child has had a one-on-one before. My guess is that this did not happen GRATIS, out of sheer luck and good will. You say that this child has been tested, with no definitive results. It seems obvious that this child has been in early-intervention. And, your school and your classroom should be an extension of that. I do not understand why you would be in-the-dark here????

My guess is that whatever testing was done was very limited, and was done by early intervention services. I will un-apologetically say that I would have no faith whatsoever in this previous testing.

My school district/teachers/etc. did not want to test my son. And, if they had, I would wager that that they would have found very very little.

We immediately began researching the best place to take our son, and got a referal to have him tested at a reputable child development clinic at a well known hospital about two hours away.... My son had a good and valid diagnosis after the first round of evaluations.

As a teacher, of course, you can not offer any type of medical opinion or diagnosis. You say that there is a meeting coming up. I am assuming that as his classroom teacher, you will be involved. At that point, I would give any observations and general opinions that would encourage further neuro-psych testing. It might be highly against guidelines and laws, but if I felt that the parents probably had good insurance coverage, I would be so tempted to plant the seed for them to seek evaluation on their own.

I will break my thoughts here, and in the next post, offer some suggestions that I think might possibly be helpful in handling this child in the classroom.

 

[Wishing on a star]

Okay, me again.

I just noticed that you are a Montessori type facility...

As the mother of a child who has had some issues, I can only say that, in our experience, this would have been just TOTALLY wrong for my child.

This may be one of those children who need constant structure, routine, regulation, hand-hold leading/coaching by the adult, etc.... Children like this may not have the ability to handle situations like this independently.

Okay, my first suggestion is to create that 'bubble' and that 'structure' around this child. Give him what we might call 'preferential seating'... his own desk not within any easy arms distance from other children. His own manageble area. If he chooses to stay there all the time, instead of circle time, activity time, etc... Let it be.... The objective should be for him to able to deal with being in the classroom... Learning by listening and by association... Not by being pushed into tasks and activities that he has shown are well beyond his abilities to handle. Let this child decide how much he wishes to participate.

Find ways to let him participate as much as possible within these above parameters. He can still experience and do a lot of what the other kids are doing, just in his own preferential area 'bubble'.

Throughout the day, always, always, keep in mind, that what is going on might be really great for most other kids, but might really be pushing this child's thresholds.

I think you will see a HUGE decrease in meltdowns this way.

It sounds like you are a great teacher and really want to help this child!

So, if my input might help in any way, I just wanted to give my two cents worth.

 

[torinsmom]

Torinsmom,

From the details that you have given, I have to agree with the 'guesses' about possible disability. Very much so. The behaviors and the triggers that you list seem to possibly be pieces of the puzzle.

Being intelligent, but being completely unable to deal with cooperative 'group' activities... Tasks and activities that require physical coordination and visual-spatial skills (rolling up the mat, etc..), sensory integration issues, very easily triggered meltdowns, etc... These all say a lot.

Okay, you also said that this child has had a one-on-one before. My guess is that this did not happen GRATIS, out of sheer luck and good will. You say that this child has been tested, with no definitive results. It seems obvious that this child has been in early-intervention. And, your school and your classroom should be an extension of that. I do not understand why you would be in-the-dark here????

My guess is that whatever testing was done was very limited, and was done by early intervention services. I will un-apologetically say that I would have no faith whatsoever in this previous testing.

My school district/teachers/etc. did not want to test my son. And, if they had, I would wager that that they would have found very very little.

We immediately began researching the best place to take our son, and got a referal to have him tested at a reputable child development clinic at a well known hospital about two hours away.... My son had a good and valid diagnosis after the first round of evaluations.

As a teacher, of course, you can not offer any type of medical opinion or diagnosis. You say that there is a meeting coming up. I am assuming that as his classroom teacher, you will be involved. At that point, I would give any observations and general opinions that would encourage further neuro-psych testing. It might be highly against guidelines and laws, but if I felt that the parents probably had good insurance coverage, I would be so tempted to plant the seed for them to seek evaluation on their own.

I will break my thoughts here, and in the next post, offer some suggestions that I think might possibly be helpful in handling this child in the classroom.

I am kind of in the dark. So far, we have talked to mom and seen a letter sent by his previous school that mentioned him having a "shadow" teacher, being given warnings before transitions, etc. We have been told by the parents that he has had extensive testing and since this was a private preschool, I assumed it must have been private, but maybe not. The parents have already requested testing at the school, so I am sure that will happen. It just seems like there was no transition between the other school and our school. If there was an early intervention team, shouldn't they be consulting with our EC team at school?

 

[Wishing on a star]

One would think that you would be receiving full info... but, it doesn't sound like that is happening. I would definitely NOT be the expert on the school systems and the early intervention system where you are at. And, it sounds like much of this may have been 'private'????

I think you are on the right track.
I think the parents are truly trying to do what they need to help their child. They are officially requesting evaluation. And, that is the best case scenario.

I am thinking that after this meeting, when the ball gets rolling, you, as the classroom teacher will be a participant in some way. I believe that, here, the teacher gets forms to fill out with her observations and input... maybe even comments and suggestions??? Make the most of this opportunity!

I think that you are beginning to get a good idea of this child and where his behaviors may be coming from. You have listened to the parents, you mention 'transitions' (another big flag for this type of disability). And you have posted here, and hopefully are getting more info here from other's perspectives.

You are on track to do all that you can!!!!

I think you are putting yourself in a good place to be an important and valid influence on what happens in this process going forward. It sounds like you are learning a lot about what might be factoring in this child's situation, and can do you part, working with the evaluators, SPED, parents, and everyone else to determine the best path.