Opinions Wanted - Potential BLT Purchase on the Horizon

[disneymath]

So, our cash-stay, "check-it-out-before-buying-in-trip" to BLT is fast approaching. I've done quite a bit of research, and think I have my head wrapped around DVC fairly well. That said, I have a few questions and wouldn't mind a few opinions on some of my logic.

We tend to travel to WDW in August, and that pattern probably won't change for the forseeable future. When it does, we will likely travel to WDW in early December, January/February to escape the winters at home!
With that in mind, a June or August UY would be the best for us - but is there an advantage (for us) of one over another?

We've booked a 2bdrm and a studio for this trip (5 adults, 3 little boys) - but we anticipate we wiil all be able to stay in a 2bdrm on future trips. Based on the 2011 charts, purchasing 180 pts would let us stay every other year for a week in a LV 2Bdrm, with a few points to spare, in Dream and Magic seasons. With current incentive pricing of $114 a point, that would cost $20520.

Purchasing 200 points, the incentive pricing is $110 a point, for a total of $22000. The way I look at it, this gives me 20 extra points at $74 / point - it's like adding on a great price right off the bat. I'm thinking this might be a good idea, b/c we could then book a studio for part of our trips. Does this logic make sense?

(No matter how many points I buy, I think I am going to split the contract into 3 smaller ones - 60, 60, 60 or 60, 70, 70 if they'll let me.)

I've read on a few threads that taking the BLT tour will take off an additional $2 per point - is this true? If so, does it apply no matter how many points you buy-in with? Does it apply to new memebers?

 

[ToddyLu]

We bought 210 instead of 200 becasue of your logic, the difference in cost was minimal and it gave us a few breathing points. You are correct about UY, you want one shortly before you usually travel. I am not sure how they will break up a new contract, but it is a great idea. Also if you know when you want to make your first real DVC trip...if it is a popular time, or anytime, Guides can get you a room to sweeten the deal.

 

[Sandisw]

June and Aug UYs will both work for you given your current and future travel plans. They sound just like ours. We went with the June UY because we knew that there could be times when our August trip might have to start in July, like this year as we arrived on July 30th.

If you think there ever could be a chance that July travel is in your future, then I would recommend going with June.

I don't know about the incentives for tours here at WDW but we are going to one for members on Monday and will report back if there are additional incentives for buying on site.

Good luck!

 

[disneymath]

If you think there ever could be a chance that July travel is in your future, then I would recommend going with June.

I don't know about the incentives for tours here at WDW but we are going to one for members on Monday and will report back if there are additional incentives for buying on site.

Good luck!

Good point about the June UY! I'm a teacher ... and if the current "July & August off" pattern ever changes, then our trips might have to start in July or even June. (It seems we're starting back earlier and earlier - last year and this it is before Labour Day.) If we go with a June UY, we have to bank by when?

Looking forward to hearing what you learn on your tour tomorrow. (Hope you're having a great vacation.)

 

[disneymath]

We bought 210 instead of 200 becasue of your logic, the difference in cost was minimal and it gave us a few breathing points. You are correct about UY, you want one shortly before you usually travel. I am not sure how they will break up a new contract, but it is a great idea. Also if you know when you want to make your first real DVC trip...if it is a popular time, or anytime, Guides can get you a room to sweeten the deal.

I like it when people share my logic!

 

[disneynutz]

If we go with a June UY, we have to bank by when?

You have to bank during the first 8 months of your UY.

Bill

 

[william1375]

Sound logic, allows for changes in point costs for a given week also.

 

[Crystal_27]

Regarding your UY, just a reminder that DVC is giving double points for UYs beyond the current one for the first year as an additional incentive. Not sure how that figures would affect your planning, but that is something you should keep in mind. And, yes, definitely give yourself a cushion of a couple extra points. Good luck!

 

[JimMIA]

(No matter how many points I buy, I think I am going to split the contract into 3 smaller ones - 60, 60, 60 or 60, 70, 70 if they'll let me.)

I wouldn't go TOO crazy with the small contract idea.

The two operating theories with small contracts are that a) they sell quicker than large contracts when you want out, and/or b) if you want to downsize later you can do so in smaller chunks.

However, really anything under 150-160 points is a small contract that will sell pretty quickly in almost any market. Anything under 150 that's not stripped will sell almost immediately, even in today's buyer's market.

There are a couple of valid arguments against small contracts (I have a small contract and a large one).

One is that multiple contracts require more management than a single contract. For example, we recently had an error by MS in which they borrowed from one contract when there were points available in the other. That little mistake, as simple as it was, would have caused us to lose 18 points and it took three calls to MS to get straightened out.

You're going to be managing your multiple contracts with every reservation and every banking or borrowing decision for as long as you own. You get the presumed benefits of small contracts only once.

The other difficulty with smaller contracts is that although they sell quickly, each contract takes time, significant paperwork and some money to sell. 3-4 X the contracts, probably 6-8 X the aggravation.

[ETA: Since you are in Canada, the selling expense of small contracts may not be trivial for you. Keep in mind that each sales contract will need to be notarized. For us in the US, that's a negligible expense, but I understand it is quite expensive in Canada. If you have to pay a couple hundred bucks per contract for notarizing, that is going to add up to a hefty selling expense.]

With regard to the downsizing prospect, it's a lot easier do add a few points down the road than it is to sell a few points because you have more than you need...or you need the money. I'd much rather see people buy too few points and then "right-size" (which is how we did it) than buy too many and have to downsize.

 

[AirGoofy]

Good point about the June UY! If we go with a June UY, we have to bank by when?

We are looking to buy at BLT as well and currently own at SSR with a June UY. You have until the end of January to bank the points. Originally, we bought UY for Summer or October Fall break vacations. Now, we like traveling in October and in April for Spring Break. So, it is not the optimal UY for Spring Break, but we still go and it works ok.

 

[disneymath]

You have to bank during the first 8 months of your UY.

Bill

I knew this ... but was tired and couldn't remember which month it was exactly ... have since figured out it is end of January - which another poster has confirmed for me.

Sound logic, allows for changes in point costs for a given week also.

Thanks.

Regarding your UY, just a reminder that DVC is giving double points for UYs beyond the current one for the first year as an additional incentive. Not sure how that figures would affect your planning, but that is something you should keep in mind. And, yes, definitely give yourself a cushion of a couple extra points. Good luck!

Thanks ... not sure if that would apply to us since the latest UY we would get would be August and we're already in to August. (Also, not sure how we would use those extra points ... we have a DCL Alaska cruise booked for next summer so the plan was for our first DVC stay to be in Fall 2011 or later. Oh well, I'm sure we would figure it out.

I wouldn't go TOO crazy with the small contract idea.

The two operating theories with small contracts are that a) they sell quicker than large contracts when you want out, and/or b) if you want to downsize later you can do so in smaller chunks.

However, really anything under 150-160 points is a small contract that will sell pretty quickly in almost any market. Anything under 150 that's not stripped will sell almost immediately, even in today's buyer's market.

There are a couple of valid arguments against small contracts (I have a small contract and a large one).

One is that multiple contracts require more management than a single contract. For example, we recently had an error by MS in which they borrowed from one contract when there were points available in the other. That little mistake, as simple as it was, would have caused us to lose 18 points and it took three calls to MS to get straightened out.

You're going to be managing your multiple contracts with every reservation and every banking or borrowing decision for as long as you own. You get the presumed benefits of small contracts only once.

The other difficulty with smaller contracts is that although they sell quickly, each contract takes time, significant paperwork and some money to sell. 3-4 X the contracts, probably 6-8 X the aggravation.

[ETA: Since you are in Canada, the selling expense of small contracts may not be trivial for you. Keep in mind that each sales contract will need to be notarized. For us in the US, that's a negligible expense, but I understand it is quite expensive in Canada. If you have to pay a couple hundred bucks per contract for notarizing, that is going to add up to a hefty selling expense.]

With regard to the downsizing prospect, it's a lot easier do add a few points down the road than it is to sell a few points because you have more than you need...or you need the money. I'd much rather see people buy too few points and then "right-size" (which is how we did it) than buy too many and have to downsize.

Thanks for this perspective ... while the resale and downsizing aspect of small contracts are nice, I have a third reason for wanting three small contracts - my three nephews. I planned to pass one on to each of them down the road, assuming they were interested and I still had all the points. I can see the downside now regarding contract management - and this would only get worse if we added on down the road. Definitely something to mull over.

I guess we are fortunate where I live, because we have a notary public who can (and does) notarize things for free - we've used him for "consent to travel" letters for my cousins. Not sure if it works for real estate also, definitely something to look into.

We are looking to buy at BLT as well and currently own at SSR with a June UY. You have until the end of January to bank the points. Originally, we bought UY for Summer or October Fall break vacations. Now, we like traveling in October and in April for Spring Break. So, it is not the optimal UY for Spring Break, but we still go and it works ok.

Thanks for the June UY info ... your experience is where I'm wavering between a June UY or an August one. Our pattern so far is to travel in August - and really, the only way that would change is if our school year calendar undergoes a huge change and has us start back in mid to early August.

Our spring break is in March, so the August UY would potentially let us plan a March Break trip (if we felt so inclined) and if we had to cancel we would still be able to bank our points (assuming we cancelling more than a month out) and if we somehow ended up with points in holding status, we could likely reschedule a trip for late June or early July. That doesn't work with a June UY.

Also, looking much further down the road, it would be nice to be able to travel during the winter months (January/February) which makes an August UY better than a June one. But then there's that whole notion of what of needing to take a summer trip in July instead of August to consider - in which case a June UY is better than August.

You know, I really wish they had July UYs - that would be the perfect UY for us! (It still wouldn't help the March Break option, but it would help with the retirement winter plans!)

 

[AirGoofy]

Our spring break is in March, so the August UY would potentially let us plan a March Break trip (if we felt so inclined) and if we had to cancel we would still be able to bank our points (assuming we cancelling more than a month out) and if we somehow ended up with points in holding status, we could likely reschedule a trip for late June or early July. That doesn't work with a June UY.)

Our Spring Break is 1st week in April. We had an emergency thing happen and had to do the holding point thing, and ultimately ended up having to do a 1 br stay over Memorial Day Weekend. We took our children out of school a couple days. In hindsight, an October UY would have been best for us. But, it still worked out for us and all is well. Congrats and have a great trip.

 

[walkdmc]

I just saw some BLT resale contracts going for $97/point. I think the contracts were stripped, with points not due until 2012 but if you can wait, it might be worth it.

Then again, who knows what BLT will be going for in 2012 on the resale market? Chances are, less than it is now. So, maybe that's not a great idea.

 

[weaver9710]

How is that worth it? You're giving up 09, 10, & 11 points that can be rented. At $10/pp that is $30 you are giving up. Buy from Disney at $110, rent 09, 10 & 11 for $10/pp and now you're getting the contract for essentially $80 and have the same 2012 points as the $97 contract.

 

[disneymath]

How is that worth it? You're giving up 09, 10, & 11 points that can be rented. At $10/pp that is $30 you are giving up. Buy from Disney at $110, rent 09, 10 & 11 for $10/pp and now you're getting the contract for essentially $80 and have the same 2012 points as the $97 contract.

You know, renting points was never reallly a consideration for getting into DVC for me, but your post makes a lot of sense. And it does put the "savings" of resale into an interesting context. Never mind the fact that they're aren't too many BLT resales that seem to have June or August UYs!

 

[woohooo]

Just a quick note about splitting into smaller contracts. We just bought 200 BLT points. If we had done 1 contract, closing cost would have been $359. But since we split into two 100 pt contracts, we had closing costs of $266 each, for total $532 closing costs.

 

[JimMIA]

How is that worth it? You're giving up 09, 10, & 11 points that can be rented. At $10/pp that is $30 you are giving up. Buy from Disney at $110, rent 09, 10 & 11 for $10/pp and now you're getting the contract for essentially $80 and have the same 2012 points as the $97 contract.

When people use the "but I can rent the points for $X" argument, they leave out two important facts.

One, renting is a pain in the neck for someone new to it, and requires a good bit of work and patience. It also involves some risk to the owner -- for example, you are responsible for damage to the villa or unpaid bills from the person renting the points.

In fact, renting is such a daunting challenge for a lot of folks that one of our sponsors on these boards has built an entire business brokering rentals for owners who don't have the time and patience to rent themselves.

Second, people who crow about renting points pretend they are getting pure profit...but they're living in Fantasyland. Truth is, your total per-point cost (purchase price + annual dues for the points rented) is probably around $7 per point, so you're really not making very much money for all that aggravation.

 

[disneymath]

Just a quick note about splitting into smaller contracts. We just bought 200 BLT points. If we had done 1 contract, closing cost would have been $359. But since we split into two 100 pt contracts, we had closing costs of $266 each, for total $532 closing costs.

Thanks for this info ... I hadn't considered that! In the long run though, the extra $200 would be pocket change considering the overall purchase price and all the annual dues.

When people use the "but I can rent the points for $X" argument, they leave out two important facts.

One, renting is a pain in the neck for someone new to it, and requires a good bit of work and patience. It also involves some risk to the owner -- for example, you are responsible for damage to the villa or unpaid bills from the person renting the points.

In fact, renting is such a daunting challenge for a lot of folks that one of our sponsors on these boards has built an entire business brokering rentals for owners who don't have the time and patience to rent themselves.

Second, people who crow about renting points pretend they are getting pure profit...but they're living in Fantasyland. Truth is, your total per-point cost (purchase price + annual dues for the points rented) is probably around $7 per point, so you're really not making very much money for all that aggravation.

I understand your perspective Jim - and I agree with it too. In all honesty, if I do end up buying in, I don't see myself renting points - except maybe in RARE circumstances to family members or close friends ... people who I know personally and trust. In such cases a $3 per point profit ($10 rental fee - $7 point-cost) would be more than enough for me ...