Okay boardmates. . .I need some advice (school related--teacher input welcome)!

[Tess]

I have a freshman in high school (my oldest) who is a 4.0 student. He is taking an "advanced track" program. A couple of weeks ago we received his "progress report" in the mail. ALL of his grades were as expected--no surprises and typical of his academic patterns. The "comments" from teachers were very positive--the usual "pleasure to have in class", "works hard", "doing excellent work", etc., etc. BUT FOR two entered by the same teacher. Her comments were "does not do the work" and "needs to prepare better for tests". Needless to say, we were very surprised about the does not do the work comment, BUT would agree that everyone can stand improvement and perhaps he did need to better prepare for tests.

Since conferences were two weeks away AND we wanted to address the possibility he wasn't keeping on top of his assignments immediately, I sent a note asking (very politely and professionally I might add) which assignments he'd failed to complete (he denied there were any missing, late, or otherwise neglected assignments. When our son returned home that afternoon there was an equally polite, albeit brief note from her that indicated she was "sorry we received the comment" and that all of his assignments were now "complete"--the inference being he'd suddenly completed the late work when, in fact, all work was complete she had simply failed to enter the scores in her computer program. I figured what the heck--I didn't think she'd admit an error on her part--not the type--and I was happy to know that my son was being forthright about the work.

Fast forward to yesterday. I receive a call from another parent who has a student during a different class hour and, in fact, a completely different class. The parent informed me that the teacher in question made some statements publicly to her class the day of the note to her. The teacher with my letter in hand (and, as I said during a completely different hour/class) was printing off an updated progress report for my son. She asked another student to walk to the printer (across the room) and get her the document. The student asked what it was and she announced to the entire class of students: "Mrs. ***** called (which I did not) and complained about **'s grade and I'm just going to prove to her why he's not doing well (as I said he's an A student)." After that phone call I spoke with my son and asked if she had reacted negatively when he presented the sealed note to her and he told us that she wasn't happy about receiving it and told him she "didn't like getting these things".

Conferences begin this evening and we are in a quandary as to what to do with this information. When we questioned her at our first conference (something very minor about our son's performance), the very next grade she gave him was 5 pts lower than her previous score for the same work (it was a notebook check--he had everything in it, perfect order--she didn't like the way his "corners looked" was the rationale she used for the decrease). I believe she's set the tone--she won't be questioned or the student will be subject to her wrath--and the grade will show it. She is also the advisor for the NHS--something we believe our son should be invited to join down the road in his high school career. (I won't go into the stories of parents whose children were invited and she, arbitrarily, told them they weren't "chosen" despite their academics.)

Our major concern is for our child. Since we are in a small school, he will certainly have this teacher repeatedly for the advanced math courses--I don't believe there will be other options. So, after this lengthy post, what do we do? Confront her with these concerns about her lack of professionalism, violation of our rights to privacy, and her attempts to publicly belittle our son and me; thereby risking further retribution on our son OR Say nothing on the matter and resign ourselves to the fact she is not open to parental concern and communication and hope that our son continues to perform well without parental involvement in this class?

While I have thick skin, although I'm more than a little bothered that she's basically labeling me a PIN (pain in the neck) parent because I deigned to ask a simple question. It bothers me intensely that she uses her position to belittle my son and I publicly. Thirty students have parents and if these students share, well. . .you can see how in a small town things like this get around--not to mention the word around school about our son. Then again, after many, many years in the system, I'm sure most people would consider the source and fluff it off. All that said, I can and will, let it go if it's in the best interest of my son (not to mention the daughter that will surely be subjected to this woman in a couple of years). I guess I'm really, really miffed that with all the lip service paid to the need for "parental involvement in the schools" and complaints of "parental apathy", a polite note inquiring about a child is met with such venom. If I raise the issue at conferences I thought we'd try to be tactful by indicating something to the effect that "We understood she disliked contact by note from home and would like to know what her preference is when we have questions about our child's performance?"

What do you think--suck it up and consider the source, or raise the issue at conference? I'm leaning toward the "suck it up" option simply because I do not see a good outcome regardless. She has tenure and I don't think she's going anywhere--no one has been successful displacing her so far. I do not like to be bullied into the decision, but I guess I need to put my kid first and not let pettiness get in his way (and the daughter down the road).

 

[Regina]

I would have been in the Principal's office in a heartbeat after I found out that she openly spoke about my child in another class.

 

[glo]

As a teach myself I would suggest the following. FIrst go and talk to her tonight. Present everything that has happened. Bring everything with you to the conference. Explain your only concern is your child and making him succeed in life. If she gets snippy, or says anything out of line, excuse yourself and walk right down to the Principals office. If she has a chip on her shoulder for some reason and isn't willing to put it aside, then go over her head. Your child is what is important.

 

[Texan]

My very first reaction after reading your post was I would be requesting a conference with the teacher AND the principal. Do not just suck it up. We have to stand up for our children when something like this goes on. The child does not have the options we have as their parent. If you meet with both teacher and principal if this happens again you have a third party who knows what is going on. In no way should she have involved other students in your child's grades or work. I am livid just reading about this. I have been very lucky to have some very understanding principals in my corner when a teacher problem has come up. Meet with both. If she decides to "retaliate" more continue to meet with the principal. The issue should at least be out there to deal with.

 

[stamper]

Well, I have had a *similar* experience...attitudes like this from a teacher(IMHO) tend to undermine the authority of the parent by allowing the teacher to ridicule the parent.

How is your relationship with the principal? When we had a problem, I had spoken directly to the teacher (several times) and had gotten nowhere really. A situation came up that I couldn't ignore, but knew that if we spoke only to the teacher, she would talk her way out of it. So, we went to the principal and asked him to be present for the meeting with the teacher...this way it wasn't one of those "he said, she said" things. She knew that I would go over her head if needed and the principal was made aware of her behavior. Things did improve a bit after that.

Good luck in what ever you decide...these things are never easy!

 

[Tess]

That was our "initial steam pouring forth from our ears" reaction. We have slept on it and are trying to be objective--since he's our oldest and it's our first "high school" dilemma, we just aren't sure how to proceed. Frankly, I doubt we'd get any satisfaction from the school since they tend to close ranks and support the teacher regardless. Still, we don't wish to look like wimps either and don't want our kid to be pushed around by the bully teachers (she's not alone. . .).

Thanks for your vote--sometimes it's just hard to gain perspective in these matters.

 

[Sonya]

No all schools support 100% their teachers, this is not always a good thing or a bad thing. They will probably back her up in a meeting in front of a parent but they will also get the message and pass it on to her after the parent is gone.
As a high school teacher I know she could be in a LOT of trouble for breaching confidentiality and in many places the school district could be sued. This may not happen in a small town but in my school it has happened many times and now we have a lot of policies about what you cannot say. I think the principal would like to know what is going on. I'm not saying you should sue or that you should even threaten, that is not what I'm avocating. But if the principal is a good one they need to be aware.
Other than that, I totally agree with glo, give her a chance to explain herself and then go to the principal. You kid needs your support, ESPECIALLY if he is going to be there for 3 more years.

 

[piratesmate]

If I raise the issue at conferences I thought we'd try to be tactful by indicating something to the effect that "We understood she disliked contact by note from home and would like to know what her preference is when we have questions about our child's performance?"

Somehow I doubt that there is anything you can say that will be tactful with this woman! Your initial note was tactful & look where it got you...nowhere. BTW - Was the comment removed from his progress report? It should have been.

 

[TimeforMe]

Tess:

We, too, have our eldest in high school this year and have had very similar issues so I can totally relate to your dilemma. I also work in a very affluent school district where the parents are very much catered to so I can see both sides of the coin. Having said that and having read your very articulate post, I would say that you HAVE to at least mention it at the conference. I can see by the way you write that you can certainly bring it up in a professional manner without seeming confrontational. I had a VERY similar situation happen with my 7th grader recently and I asked the teacher for a conference (via e-mail) and she wrote back with a date and mentioned the guidance counselor would be present. At first I was put off by this, but after speaking with our guidance counselors here I felt it was in my son's best interest to have the guidance counselor there as well. The conference went extremely well and I did feel the counselor was objective and in my son's corner. I would be forthright in asking her why she felt a need to make a negative comment, when you felt you were doing something so positive. Put the onus on her. Let us know what happens and GOOD LUCK!

 

[Lynn CC]

The exact same thing happened to my son in his Freshman year with his math teacher. Things went well for the first semester then it all changed. We chose not to say a thing. We figured we would let him handle it. He did end up getting a B for a final grade...he got A's in everything else. He constantly picked at him and gave him lower grades than the rest of the students. He stayed after school every chance the teacher would give him for effort, but still to no avail.
I did request to the principal, that he never have that teacher again for Advanced Placement courses. He is however teaching Calculus next year in my DS's Junior year...The principal spoke to his guidance councelor about DS not having that teacher again...so who knows what will happen.

It's a shame that this type of thing happens all the time.
I do feel like I let that teacher get away with treating DS unfairly by not talking to him. Live and learn I guess.

Good luck, I'll be interested to know how you handle this with your DS.

 

[Tess]

You've all pretty much changed my mind about acting on this information. Now we will ponder how we wish to proceed. I really don't see any good coming from a face-to-face with this teacher--if she becomes adversarial over a simple question, I would bet she will become extremely defensive in the one-on-one. We have a personal relationship with our school superintendent--I believe we will seek private consultation and advice at that level--get the "official" procedure for handling this so to speak. I didn't want to impose on that relationship, BUT if this teacher is handling our son in this fashion--heaven knows what she's doing to those who have little parental involvement.

Pirate's Mate: NO, she did not remove the comment from his record--another thing that does not please us. You are right though--this should be removed from his permanent record.

LynnCC: Must be a math teacher thing -- That's our major dilemma--this particular teacher instructs all of the AP math courses--he will have her for the next 3 years! Uggghhhhh! You can appreciate why it's a "no win" proposition for us.

Sonya & glo: Thanks for your firsthand advice. I know you are correct--any employer would be crazy to publicly ostracize an employee for a potential wrongdoing. The employer opens itself to a suit from the employee for doing so. I would never expect the administration to handle disciplinary measures in front of the complainant--I abhor anyone being humiliated or belittled in such a fashion. On the other hand, these triangular meetings often leave all sides without satisfaction. Further, there is that retribution "fear factor" on the part of the complainant that is not usually addressed either.

I'm just not confrontational by nature I guess--but I can't tolerate this lack of respect either. You are also absolutely correct--lawsuits have been filed against schools for much less cause. Having been a paralegal prior to becoming a mom, I know the ins and outs of that game--let's just say I never threaten, but know the options. Life is too short to complicate it with the legal system.

 

[kendall]

As a former high school teacher in a small school...

I agree with Glo - go to the conference, documentation in hand, and keep the focus on your son. If you can focus on his actions and work, that will help (versus a "you" - once you go to "you" directed at the teacher, the defensive posture may begin). Bring the progress reports and all documentation you have with regard to your son. I would focus on the "does not do work in class" comment and say that you were concerned about that, is son's behavior distracting to other students, has son's behavior improved because we have clear expectations regarding his behavior.... (you know your son is fine - trust in him for that )- and thank her for the follow-up report. Ask if his behavior has improved in class and if he is consistently doing his work now - perhaps that will give the teacher the chance to say his classroom behavior is fine and son is doing work now.

The comment on the progress report may have been simply an incorrect code entered by the teacher - unless they were hand-written, then error is less likely. Maybe she gave that comment to everyone. Could have been careless.

As for the comment the teacher made in the other class - inappropriate, I agree. We also don't know if it was made sarcastically, quietly, etc. Hard one to judge.

My gut tells me that this teacher most likely does not take questionning well - everything is interpreted as an accusation - that makes conversations difficult and delicate. I hear your concern that this teacher will be involved in your son's future classroom and potential NHS activities, as well as that of your daughter's. As you indicate, you and the community understand the behavior of this teacher. And, if the administration is on the ball, so does the administration. If this has been going on for years, I doubt it will change because it has been tolerated for so long. The teacher probably isn't going to change, so work around her. I would work with your son to view his relationship with this teacher as a learning experience - how do you deal with a person like this, in a position of power. How can he best manipulate the situation. I hate to use that word, but... Do you have any interactions such as this from your work experience? That may be a helpful parallel....

In this situation, I would go the sugar route - kill her with kindness - you know your son and what he can do. Trust him. Teacher obviously enjoys the position of power and is using it (as evidenced by the subsequent grading).. I would definitely keep the teacher in all lines of communication and if you decide to involve the principal, involve the teacher too. Emails, with a copy to the principal, may be an effective tool. Just be sure to watch the tone of the email - again, this is simply because of the apparent nature of this teacher to view things as accusatory and the tone of email is sometimes difficult to assess. I would include phrases such as thank you so much for your time, etc along with any request for grade updates. It sounds like you have handled everything great so far - you have a feel for the politics of the land and can see the big picture - that is good! I understand your fuming and the difficulty of deciding to openly and agresively pursue or lay low....

Questions that may work during the conference...
What are son's strengths in your class?
In what areas could he improve?
What is the most convenient way to contact you - I know you are very busy during the day - do you prefer phone, note or email? (maybe she doesn't like phone calls, but prefers email) -you alluded to that in your post - I think that is a great idea!

I honestly would recommend email - that way you have a copy of the correspondence - and it is dated. You can always copy the guidance counselor and administration too.... As a teacher, I always kept the emails I received from parents for documentation purposes.....

I would also recommend that you son keep track of his grades in her class - maintain a page where he records his grades so he always knows where he stands - and you can compare that with progress reports. I would also keep all graded work from this class. Don't worry about the little 5 points now - hopefully this will not effect the big picture grade - that semester grade is the big one.

Do teachers in the school post grades in the classroom? We used to post grades by student ID - I would update mine weekly so students could always check their current grade in the class. Perhaps this is a suggestion that could be made to the administration..... Some school information systems also have a component that would allow grades to be posted on the Internet, accessed by password. That would enable you to keep a watch on this class too. You may find your solution to this situation remedied by addressing some larger issues such as this one, where the teacher would be impacted by the system change. System change can be slow - but the benefits may be great!

Kudos to you for being an active parent - at the high school level the number of active parents reduces. You are a great advocate for your son - good luck! Be sure to give us an update tomorrow!

 

[damo]

This seems to be a popular issue! I had a similar situation with DD's tenth grade math teacher where the teacher was teaching something incorrectly and when DD approached her she was told that she should learn some manners and that the teacher knew exactly what she was doing. However, as a high school math teacher myself, I marched into her high school, knocked at the math department door and asked to speak to the math department head or "someone who knew something about Grade 10 math". DD's teacher came out of the office instead and we (with DD present) had a "chat". At the end I told the teacher that I would be watching her very carefully. DD actually did very, very well in that class and had no further incidences.

I think once the teacher realizes that you are willing to go over her head, she will watch her step. Also, since this is math, it is difficult for the teacher to penalize with marks. You can always take a test to the department head for clarification.

So, in short, I would definately meet with the teacher and then let her know that you are also going to meet with the principal. You are not the problem and neither is your child. I don't know why some teachers think they have the authority to push people around.

I also feel that it is a good life lesson for children to realize that they have to stand up for themselves and not let people take advantage of them no matter what their position.

 

[RUDisney]

My Mom had to confront my sister's 6th grade teacher this year. It seems that she had a problem with my sis because she is smart. Instead of encouraging her for her good work, she'd belittle her in class and tell her that she wasn't as smart as she thought she was. My Mother approached the teacher and said that she thought that their might be a problem. She asked if the teacher had a problem with my sister and how they could work together to correct it. The teacher backed down, once confronted, and my sister hasn't had a problem with her since.

Hopefully, this will bode true for your DS, too.

In HS, I had a problem with my Jr. science teacher. Actually, I had him for freshman year, too. He hated girls. Made it perfectly clear to everyone. He had taught at the school when it was all boys and he never thought girls should have been admitted.

I went back to him for help one day. He made it near impossible for me to ask him any questions. I finally excused myself, went to the Chaplain's office, and called my Mother. When I returned, I told him that it wasn't necessary for him to help me, as my Mother would be taking this situation up with the principal. I reminded him that his salary was being paid by my tuition and the other students' tuition and through that, he was our employee, and he wasn't doing a good job. (Yes, I've always been ball$y.)

He was furious. He marched down to the principal's office with me and called my Mom at work. My Mom is great. She didn't back down at all. He actually told my Mother that he thought that the only reason that I was looking for help from him was because I was bored with his class and should have been in AP Chemistry so I'd be challenged more. My Mother told him to challenge me then. He agreed, and I never had another problem with him after that. He knew that I wouldn't personally tolerate his crap, and my parents would back me up at all costs.

Present your problem to the teacher at the conference. Tell her there is obviously a problem and you'd like to work together to solve it. If you are allies, anything is possible. If you are adversaries, then only your DS will suffer.

Definitely have your DS keep all of his test grades for verification purposes later. This lady sounds like a manipulative jerk.

 

[Tess]

I appreciate and will weigh all of these options very carefully. I agree with the post above, I believe this particular teacher enjoys the perceived power she possesses. I truly want to do what is best for our child/children. Our son is a very quiet, hard-working kid--he's been raised to be respectful and cooperative and is extremely responsible. His grades are important to him and has his goal set on being valedictorian--obviously, our goal is to help him meet his.

There are some very good suggestions on handling this matter and we'll probably use a variety of techniques to work through this situation. Our son knows we are behind him (not with parental blinders though) and will be his advocate if necessary.

Our conferences won't be until Thursday--it will definitely give us time to cool down. One note though--the contact made with our superintendent suggests, off the record, there has been a real pattern of behavior/complaint this year in regards to this teacher. We aren't privy to the measures being taken from within, but knowing that she is on the radar of the administration is a bit comforting.

Thanks again everyone!

 

[browneyes]

Does the teacher have a child that is envious of your ds? It sounds to me like she's singling your ds out for some bizarre, immature reason.

 

[Disney Doll]

I can't do any better than the advice given here. The only thing I would add is that I would take notes at your conference and follow it up with something in writing summarizing what you discussed and what plan of action you arrived at. I'd send it to the teacher and cc'd to the principal. Don't make it a secret, and keep the tone of everything very cool and professional. My guess is that eventually she'll blow, and prove what she really is. My father always said "Give someone enough rope and they'll hang themselves."

I also think I'd make a phone call to the principal, not as a complaint, but for informational purposes only, that you were distressed by your son's grade and comments from this teacher, seeing as how he's such a good student and kid otherwise, and you would be meeting with her Thursday to develop a plan of action to help your son improve in her class and would let him know the results of the meeting. Maybe let it slip that the teacher had made a comment in another class about receiving a note from you requesting a conference, so that gave you the idea that she was as concerned about the "difficulties" your son was having as well, since she mentioned it to another group of students. You know, something like "When I heard Ms. So-and-so had mentioned my note to another classroom full of students, I knew she was as concerned as I was. That's why I wanted a conference right away."

Make it like you're thinking so far is that the teacher is concerned and going to be cooperative, so that if she's not, you can go to the principal and the superintendent if necessary, and prove that YOU were attempting to work with this teacher, and she was not cooperative at all.

Good Luck!

Keep us posted!

 

[Pin Wizard]

If it were my son, I'd suck it up. Perhaps he needs to keep his papers in better order. Bet he'll do it from now on! Last semester I got a paper back from my English professor with the comment...Not quite MLA style! I used my Bedford Handbook to check everything. The only thing she possibly could have done was measure the margins. My top margins were a teense bigger. Some teachers will be like that. I'd rather DS get used to it now and make whatever changes he can.

 

[Tess]

browneyes: She has no children around our son's age. You never know though, perhaps she has a "pet" in the class and our son is doing better than he/she. One telling comment she made at open house is that our son "asks too many questions". "When he doesn't know for sure the answer is correct he will come to my desk so I can tell him if it's correct or not", were her words. Well, duh--isn't that what she's supposed to do--teach? Apparently she believes the "Accelerated Math Program" she has in her class (all computer generated practices/tests, etc.) should do the work. Our son has indicated she does very little in the way of "teaching" rather relies on the computer program to "teach" to the students' level. I know things have changed since my school/collegiate days in the 70s/early 80s, but c'mon--let the computer do the "teaching" and/or the child teach him/herself?

You may be on to something with your thought though--because our son is quiet, maybe he's a likely target--much as if a bully had set his/her sights on him.

Disney Doll--thanks for the encouragement, I am a rather meticulous recordkeeper--we keep all past work for every class for the entire year just in case we need to prove work was completed (it's happened in the past, but not in this class). I thoroughly believe in documentation and putting things in writing; hence the reason I wrote her to begin with rather than a phone call.

Someone posted above about the math class being a better class with less wiggle room on the grade. Well, she gives a major assignment (first quarter it was a lengthy research paper and design project on tessalations) that lends itself quite nicely to "subjective" grading--then there's that "notebook" grade. I ask you, how in the world do you keep papers from having minor crinkles--I'd have had to iron his papers to be any neater! Her downgrading him on the notebook after our initial conference was very transparent. On his tessalation project she actually put a note on his report accusing him of using "cut & paste" from the internet to create the report--something that was forbidden by the rubric. I am here to tell you plagiarism is not now, nor has it ever, been acceptable in our house! Now that I've been brooding over this issue, things are beginning to take shape here. . .

 

[Pin Wizard]

I think Freshman year of HS is a bit too soon for the computer teaching stuff, but the colleges are going that way. My pre-algebra class has an "internet option" which we are "strongly encouraged" to use by the instructor. He doesn't teach. We do the work ourselves and then ask him to do any problems we're stuck on. For this I'm paying mucho bucks!