Oh so THAT'S WHY I can't get a reservation at Be Our Guest (and every other restaurant in WDW)!!

[HyperPippi]

Any properly thought out solution would have exceptions for specific scenarios built it. I don't see any reason why GKTW couldn't have a way to secure ADRs for their guests. I would be quite surprised if there wasn't already a person or department at Disney that worked with GKTW in a concierge capacity with their own interface for these kinds of things.

Unfortunately, that is not the case. Most of us get our dates just a couple months in advance. I've still been scrambling and I had four full months. I didn't realize it was "jersey week" or during free dining. (Even if I'd known, I wouldn't have known what that means for ADRs since none of us has ever gone to WDW.)

 

[5DisneyNuts]

Probably a combination of both with (IMO) "hoarding" being the lesser evil. Social media has led to a frenzy of booking certain places the same way you will find toys being the must have at Christmas.

The problem with the searching sites is the undue stress caused on the already fragile reservation system - causing time out errors for real people and slow downs. Just look at the one site that will list results for every restaurant for every day within a date range. Solution could be a captcha (annoying for the guest).

The problem with sniper sites that grab reservations and then resell is less availability for the average person. While the numbers of reservations for sale may not seem high now, if something isn't done, these sites will grow in numbers/volume. Solution could be requiring CC validation and ID at check in (annoying for the guest).

The problem with hoarding is, of course, less availability, for everyone. i really don't think the population at large does this. Disney tried a no show fee but that was mainly to protect the restaurant and revenue. Solution here could be a non-refundable booking fee (really super annoying) or requiring a link to a reservation either hotel or AP, DVC, Florida Resident tickets with an advance booking window (annoying for off site guests).

You could be correct. So I went and looked.

Including those that have already sold (for the month of October)

4th
6th
8th x 2
9th
10th
12th X 5
13th x 2
14th
15th x 2
16th
19th x 2
20th
21st
22nd x 2
23rd
28th
31st

Thats 26 ADR's for an entire month which result in (if I counted right) 107 seats for the whole month. 14 days of that month there aren't any ADR's offered at all.

BoG alone seats 500 people at a time. If they had 6 seatings a day (6 x 1.5 dining hours per seating = 9 hour park day) thats 3000 people for ONE restaurant EACH DAY which means 93,000 people for that one restaurant per month. Given the volume of the Disney restaurants, I really don't think the place who is seating 107 people for an entire MONTH is the problem. I'm not saying it doesn't cause issues or that I even agree with it, but looking at it objectively makes a BIG difference. The scalper site and bot sites are not the reason people can't find seats. Its regular people hoarding.

At that volume it would take a large average of holding per person based off the availability of so many other locations.

Could it just be hype and mass individual bookings with the addition of some hoarding? After all, this is a place where people formed 3 hour lines at 9:30am for lunch

 

[cutekangaroo]

I can only guess that they need to increase their credit card verification. By default, they may be able to accept prepaid (store bought, anonymous) credit/debit cards. Then these sites can sell you the ADR, even give you the account if you want a guaranteed reservation without chancing it. That way, even if the real person who wants that reservation don't shows up, and they get charged, it's not linked to their identity. Also it's a throwaway account and a throwaway credit/debit card. They probably don't have that card saved into the account, so no one can add more reservations using the saved card.

Maybe Disney can be strict about credit card reservation. Verifying the name, billing address, etc. No anonymous or store bought gift cards.

Another idea is to require phone text verification. Gmail does this for example. You can't just open countless accounts and create spam bots. This will definitely stop the anonymous accounts. They won't be able to create more than one account using the same phone number. These days, if you live in the US, even if you are broke and homeless, you can still afford a prepaid cell phone that can send and receive text. Even people on welfare get free cellphone that can text.

Long story short, Disney would need to require more identity verification. No more anonymous accounts. Some might argue this is a breach of privacy and all that and I can understand. But if you're booking a vacation to Disney World, they have already required your identity in the first place.

 

[JimmyV]

A couple of thoughts and observations...

At first blush, I didn't think that there was a chance in H-E-Double Hockey Sticks that the site in question could have a material impact on the overall reservation system. And after reading the most recent posts about how many ADRs are actually for sale, that has been confirmed. The number of Disney restaurants that are popular enough to matter are very small in number.

I'm not at all convinced that Disney cares about this in the way you might think. They might be "looking into it", but they are likely doing so in order to protect copyrights, or for other IP issues, the way that they stop day care centers from painting Disney characters on the sides of buildings. I don't think that they are looking into this to prevent ADRs from being made. If all of this press results in people being even more vigilant in booking their ADRs, and ADRs are getting booked at an even higher rate than before, why would the money-making engine at Disney want to stop this? Do you think that Disney cares if you had to pay $15 extra for an ADR at BoG any more than the Dodgers care if you bought your game ticket on StubHub? All the Dodgers care about is that the ticket got sold at its asking price to begin with, so they made their money. And there will be a fanny in the seats to buy beer and Dodger Dogs. Disney is no different. The only question the restaurant manager has to answer is: "Is her restaurant full?"

Disney already has a system in place for stopping the process if it chooses to do so. It simply has to utilize it. ADRs require a CC for booking. That very same card has to be shown at check-in, and a photo ID has to be presented that matches the name on the CC. No CC switches allowed after the ADR is made. I have purchased lots of "will call" tickets to events where this has been done. If you can't present the CC at the time of the ADR, sorry, but you lose.

When we were at AKL in July a lady next to me at the concierge desk was going through and canceling reservations for the week. She had multiple ADRs for multiple meals for each day of her stay. What a horrible person.

I cannot agree with this. Right now, planning a trip to WDW requires making decisions way in advance. You plan to dine at The Crystal Palace and book 189 in advance. You don't know what the weather will be like. Who might be ill. Or what event might come up and change your plans. If it rains, maybe you would prefer to spend your day at EPCOT inside the large pavilions. So you double book at Via Napoli. And once you get to Florida, your plans coalesce and you make a final decision and cancel your unwanted ADR. She is not a horrible person for the following reasons. Disney allows you to double book. Disney allows you to cancel a day in advance. Disney will charge you if you do not cancel a day in advance. Disney is very crowded and popular places always have people trying to get in by walking up. So the woman wasn't doing anything that she wasn't allowed to do. All she had done was make a contingency plan to account for the fact that a trip to WDW involves a lot of guessing about what the future will hold and a lot of advanced planning way beyond any time period that sane people would call reasonable. Indeed, she was actually courteous enough to cancel her unwanted ADRs which no doubt got scarfed up within 10 minutes, or perhaps her space was taken by a walk-up. The table didn't sit empty. I have absolutely no problem with people who double book, as long as they release their unwanted reservations back into the pool.

We were able to get most of the ADRs we wanted...

And in the end, this is all that matters. This is truly a mountain made from a molehill. BoG has been hard to get since day one. The creation of an ADR booking site has not changed this one bit.

Finally, I agree with the folks who have commented that the angst over some very mediocre restaurants is mostly "on us" as guests and not on Disney and not on some third party site. We create the panic. When Le Cellier first opened, it was pretty popular, but not crazy. The first 3 times I ate there, I walked up and got a table. Then, something happened and it became the "it" place. All of a sudden, it was one of the places that you had to book 180 days out. Same thing happened to Ohana. It was popular, but not crazy. Then some internet wildfire struck and all of a sudden it was the hardest ADR to get. Neither of these restaurants changed in any way to make them more desirable. But internet chatter seems to have made them soar in popularity. That is the fault of the lemmings, not of Disney. And all the while, the very best restaurants at WDW have been and continue to be virtual walk-ups. I have never called bluezoo and been turned away. Even the morning of. I am sure that they must book full every now and again if a big conference is in town. But in the 25 or so times that I have dined there, I have never had a problem getting in, and at least half of those times, I called the day of, the day before, or up to a week in advance.

 

[scottashackleton]

Time for Disney to start charging a booking fee that is automatically charged to credit card at time of reservation then applied to the cost of the meal when it is used or refunded when cancelled. They charge a fee if you no show for a reservation, well maybe it is time to just start collecting that fee earlier.

Took the words right out of my mouth. There is no downside here and if these "services" have to shell out $20 up front and never get that back (gets applied to the bill) then they would need to charge well over $20 for the transfer. And hopefully people wouldn't be willing to pay that.

I went to book some of our more popular reservations for early October at 180 days, and the entire week we're there the only 'Ohana openings were at 9:40. I wonder if this site gobbled up all the prime dinner times there.

 

[JimmyV]

I wonder if this site gobbled up all the prime dinner times there.

Easy way to find out. And I'll bet you'll be disappointed to learn that the answer is "no" when you go to their site.

 

[Dean Marino]

....The problem with the searching sites is the undue stress caused on the already fragile reservation system - causing time out errors for real people and slow downs. ...

Yes - you obviously get how the net WORKS. It makes no difference if these people make money - they effectively place a LOAD on the Disney Webserver, tied to an ancient back end database, all of which has a hard time staying alive on a GOOD day.

MY biggest disappointment.... does Disney not employ anyone that even LOOKS like an Internet Architect? I'm 63 - retired. I am an old man. I GET ALL THIS - and so would anyone 20 years old, competent in the field. This entire situation is a MASSIVE failure in staffing - and hence, top line management.

Disney, PLEASE.... GET A REAL CIO. Susan O'Day has all the skills required of a CIO circa 1965!!!!! It's not 1965. GET SERIOUS, or increase your phone staff. Your nickel - do you want to make money, or not?

 

[MinnieSweetheart]

First off the ticket idea and nonrefundable deposits are horrible ideas. Disney would lose way more business than worrying about a "business" taking some of the ADRs. My husband is active duty and we don't do ANYTHING that isn't nonrefundable unless it is the very last minute. I would maybe check the week or so before we were going and we would eat at half as many restaurants. Also, people with small kids are not making nonrefundable reservation fees. We didn't know on our last trip how our daughter would react to characters so we booked our character meals at the end of the week. If there had been a fee, we wouldn't have reserved ANY and would have taken what we could possibly get, but that is bad for Disney according to my general tidbit below.

I've played with the ADR system a lot, because we have gone during free dining/party season twice. It can be quite difficult to get reservations or at optimum times. I have a few things to add.

1. Unavailability of ADRs does not always mean the restaurant is at capacity. We have worked hard to get ADRs a couple times only to go into restaurants that aren't seating all tables. This depends on the size and crowd capacity. I've seen Disney pump dozens of ADRs into the system around 30 days out. They are using the ADRs to determine staffing levels first and foremost.

2. Be Our Guest is small. It's even smaller for dinner as they only seat half of the music box room if it's open. When we sat in there before, there were 9 or 10 empty tables and our waiter explained that the whole room was designed for lunch/waiter prep. (I think it's too small because they didn't realize how popular it would be, the senior management seems to have forgotten that guests are craving truly immersive experiences. THAT is why we are Disney World.)

3. You technically cannot "double book." Like I mentioned in the beginning, it is quite difficult to get good times during free dining, so I would find a more optimal time and go to book it and get a pop up that says "You have a current reservation at this time, would you like to keep that reservation or cancel and make this one?" It will hold the first reservation and cancel when the second is complete. From my experience, it seems to be an hour on either side of the start time that will block you.

 

[fairy oma]

Maybe a more reasonable idea would be that people paying for the dining plan would get the 180+ option and those getting FD have a later ADR date...maybe 145+. Don't take offense Free Diners...but maybe that would make it a little easier all the way around.

Another thought might be to go back to the initial ADR schedule of just a few years ago. We are going during a week in December that is not FD and there were not ADRs we wanted available for the first 3 days of our trip. CMs told me that being able to book on that 180+ day when people were staying 7-14 days out really booked up a lot of the ADRs. In 2013 we had to get up each morning from the 180 day out date and make our reservations for just 1 day, get up the next morning and do it all over again. This enabled everyone to have a chance to get an ADR for that particular day of your stay. I know it was a pain...I was the one who had to get up and make the reservations for 8 days in a row but it did seem to work a little better and there certainly seemed to be less angst over getting a coveted ADR for the most popular restaurants.

That said, DH and I have decided the next time we go will be OOP, only 2 ADRs and the rest will be CS or offsite meals.

 

[CandiceF]

I like the idea of everyone going back to the initial ADR schedule of booking your ADRs everyday. It would be a pain but it seems more fair. I don't agree with the people who get free dining having a later ADR date. If you get a deal in a store do you get less service than if you paid full price?

 

[5DisneyNuts]

I agree the idea of a non-refundable booking fee would be bad. Someone mentioned (sorry I have to look up who it was) the idea of showing the credit card used to book the reservation and ID when checking in - this could work.

Going back to a daily ADR schedule is interesting too.

Disney can do something about this, but who knows if they will. Stay tuned.

 

[Hopelessly_Devoted]

Maybe Disney should use their system to be unable to make an ADR in a park unless you have a ticket purchased. Similar to fast pass restriction.

If enough of us complain, it will happen. That is why they went to the credit card system. It wasn't enough though.

 

[andiraye]

I think permitting ADR's to be made only if park tickets are purchased would work only if the ADR window were shorter. It is too hard to know your park plans in advance. Theoretically, the requirement would disincentivize making ADR's far in advance (and then dropping them) and create open spots closer to actual trips but I think the real effect would be incentivizing people to buy park tickets at 180 days, creating a whole other set of problems.

The issue with ADR's, and with table service restaurants in general, is that the number of seats is relatively limited. There are always going to be more guests than seats. Whether restaurants are all walk-in or permit ADR's at 30 days or at 180 days, there are going to be people who don't get what they want.

Yes, Disney could create a system that sets aside a certain number of reservations for people staying at deluxes or on property generally, but then there would be complaints that Disney was further favoring people who can afford more, creating (or furthering) a two tier system.

And having a different set of ADR rules apply to park versus non park restaurants would be even more complex than the existing system. I can't imagine keeping another set of rules and windows in my head!

I'm not saying the existing system is perfect. I'm just saying no system could be and the current one is as good (or bad) as any, given the limited number of seats.

I think the best way to approach the whole thing (as well as any other hard to get experiences like BBB, A&E and SDMT FP's) is to recognize that in spite of the insane cost of a Disney vacation, demand exceeds supply. You therefore might not get what you want. But that WON'T ruin your vacation, which will still be awesome.

I actually don't like this third party reservation site, though. It lets people with more money "game" an otherwise flawed but egalitarian system. Not to mention the trademark infringement issue.

 

[Gru]

I went on a last minute trip (21 days to plan) the last week in August. I looked everyday for an early morning BOG reservation. There was nothing available. The night before my MK day I decided to check again - there was a LOT to choose from - I could have had my choice of anytime I wanted - even 8am! Maybe it was a glitch maybe a large party cancelled at the last minute or maybe a site dumped a bunch of reservations they didn't sell before the 24 hour cancellation window.

 

[fairy oma]

I like the idea of everyone going back to the initial ADR schedule of booking your ADRs everyday. It would be a pain but it seems more fair. I don't agree with the people who get free dining having a later ADR date. If you get a deal in a store do you get less service than if you paid full price?

I can agree with that...going back to the initial ADR schedule of booking your ADRs each day would solve the problem and put everyone on a level playing field.

 

[JimmyV]

I think permitting ADR's to be made only if park tickets are purchased would work only if the ADR window were shorter.

How would that help locals or people in the area who just want to go out to dinner? Are you suggesting that unless you have a park ticket, you cannot dine at California Grill? Or V&A? Or Ohana? That would never work.

 

[andiraye]

How would that help locals or people in the area who just want to go out to dinner? Are you suggesting that unless you have a park ticket, you cannot dine at California Grill? Or V&A? Or Ohana? That would never work.

I should have been clearer -- I only meant shortening the window for park restaurants. But as I said, I think having different requirements for park and non-park restaurants would be really confusing. I'd rather stick with the existing system, imperfect as it is.

 

[NYCANC]

So I wanted to see what all the talk was about and I went to that website to peek just now and got-
_________.com is currently unavailable.
What can I do?
If you're a visitor to this store

Please try again later.

If you're the owner of this store
Please sign in to resolve the issue, or contact support.

Wonder if Disney shut it down?

 

[ameliahyde]

I don't agree with the people who get free dining having a later ADR date. If you get a deal in a store do you get less service than if you paid full price?

People who get "free dining" don't really get it for free. You do pay full rack price for the room, and often time people who get free dining pay the same, if not more, than someone who gets a 30% or 20% off room rate. Sometimes free dining is a great deal, sometimes it isn't that great. I don't think taking advantage of any promotion should make you "second class," or not in the running for ADR's like everyone else.

 

[JimmyV]

Wonder if Disney shut it down?

A quick restraining order would probably do the trick!