Offsite-ers - is there anything Disney can do to win you over?

[LoriABil]

This is for those who stay offsite, but feel free to post if you have an opinion!

1. 1. Have you ever stayed onsite? If so, is there a reason you are now considering an offsite stay?
   
2. 2. Short of discounts and free dining, what could Disney do to get you to stay on property?

Discounts have been released for summer months, of all things! But it appears (from a call today) that there is still plenty of availability in June. This got me thinking - Why are they having difficulty filling rooms?

I have my own opinions and reasons I am leaning toward offsite, the least of which is a horrid stay at the Beach Club in 2011. I like the Caribbean Beach Resort and wouldn't mind a moderate, but would like a nicer hotel for this trip. In short, we are considering offsite because I know we can find a much nicer hotel for less money. 30% off just isn't cutting it. I don't think 50% off would cut it after the last stay we had.

In order to win me back, I am thinking I need to see
1. The exceptional customer service we came to love from day one of our first trip.
2. The "Disney Magic" that won us over return. I'm not talking about freebies. I would love to see anyone getting pixie dust! What I mean are the little touches - the things you can't get at the Waldorf, Hilton, Sheraton, or even Hampton Inn!
3. Upkeep at the hotel that is congruent with the price point for the hotel. For the price of the Beach Club, I expect upkeep to be at least as good as any of the above mentioned chains. Not light fixtures out of order, exposed wiring and dirt in the windows and floors.

I don't know, maybe DCL spoiled me. I've got it! Disney Resorts can win me back by giving me the same service that I get on DCL!

Am I the only one feeling this way?

 

[huhwhat]

no , you are not wrong. I stayed at the Poly last year and had to move rooms 3 times due to black mold !!! I had an allergic reaction to it and ended up in urgent care....Disney did very little to compensate me..... I can take my $$$ elsewhere....it's not like the perks on staying on site are that great anymore

 

[CalSea12]

This is for those who stay offsite, but feel free to post if you have an opinion!

1. 1. Have you ever stayed onsite? If so, is there a reason you are now considering an offsite stay?
   
2. 2. Short of discounts and free dining, what could Disney do to get you to stay on property?

Discounts have been released for summer months, of all things! But it appears (from a call today) that there is still plenty of availability in June. This got me thinking - Why are they having difficulty filling rooms?

I have my own opinions and reasons I am leaning toward offsite, the least of which is a horrid stay at the Beach Club in 2011. I like the Caribbean Beach Resort and wouldn't mind a moderate, but would like a nicer hotel for this trip. In short, we are considering offsite because I know we can find a much nicer hotel for less money. 30% off just isn't cutting it. I don't think 50% off would cut it after the last stay we had.

In order to win me back, I am thinking I need to see
1. The exceptional customer service we came to love from day one of our first trip.
2. The "Disney Magic" that won us over return. I'm not talking about freebies. I would love to see anyone getting pixie dust! What I mean are the little touches - the things you can't get at the Waldorf, Hilton, Sheraton, or even Hampton Inn!
3. Upkeep at the hotel that is congruent with the price point for the hotel. For the price of the Beach Club, I expect upkeep to be at least as good as any of the above mentioned chains. Not light fixtures out of order, exposed wiring and dirt in the windows and floors.

I don't know, maybe DCL spoiled me. I've got it! Disney Resorts can win me back by giving me the same service that I get on DCL!

Am I the only one feeling this way?

You are definitely not the only one, after my last trip I was wondering if I would ever go back to WDW in general. I am giving it another try because of how guest services stepped up to the plate and made it right. I think WDW is missing the magic it used to have, and that saddens me very much.

Last time we stayed in Value, never again will I stay in a Value. A value to me feels like a decorated Super 8, just gross. So this time we are upgrading to a Moderate, and hopefully it will be better. I stayed at CBR in 2010 and loved it, hopefully POR is the same.

I would never stay off site, I would just stop going altogether. For me it really isnt the rooms that bug me, as the CMs who make the experience awful. Granted there are many really good ones, but the few always ruins it.

 

[TwoMisfits]

I've stayed on and offsite...and will stay offsite for the near future without a really cool perk.

Why did I move offsite? Bonnet Creek was built before the AoA Family Suites...and, nothing has convinced me to go back once I experienced Bonnet Creek AND the price.

But, what could lure me back? Free character breakfasts every morning onsite at my Disney hotel (included in the price) - for hotel guests of that Disney hotel only. Free special resort-specific experiences at my hotel daily (even moderates/values) - the possibilities are endless. Make the world feel like a resort, not a cheap Motel-6. That would get me back.

I might even pay rack rate if I got the above - but Disney would have to be willing to give me more to have me pay more...and the current Disney trope of separating experiences to have guests pay for each of them means that's unlikely to happen.

 

[Planogirl]

I stay both onsite and offsite and have a few favorite Disney resorts that I adore. But I adore the resorts themselves and not just the concept of being onsite. We enjoy space, extra amenities and having more money in our pockets! However I do hope to return to those favorite places and try a few more too.

 

[ConnieB]

We have stayed at POP, POR, CBR, CRS, and one glorious night at GC.

Yes, they are lovely hotels (though I'll agree some upkeep needs are becoming noticeable).

But...the real question....why do we prefer off site:

1. Cost. Plain and simple, we can stay for 3 days offsite or one day onsite....so we prefer longer trips over onsite. We would rent a car anyway (usually about $10 a day or less with coupons), because we do several things off site even when we stay onsite...we have AP so we get free parking. And as for the "theme" décor, it is nice, but we don't feel it's necessary for us to have a great vacation. Even with the added cost of a rental car, the cost difference is large enough that we can stay much longer and to us, that is more important than being onsite. My girls are teens now, so I'm the one that needs a nap, not them, so being 10-15 drive away is fine....and frankly, by the time you add in the waiting for a bus and the bus stopping at other resorts, or waiting in line for several buses before there is room for you, I have found we can get home before or about the same time as friends staying onsite, most especially after park closing....we have ALWAYS been home and changed to PJs by the time our friends wait for buses and get to their hotel room.

2. Space. This is a big one for me.....I simply hate being stuck in 300 square feet for weeks at a time. I want a couch or chair for each of us to sit on, not a bed. I want space to set up my computer and not have to move it to get dressed or before we leave so the maid can make the bed. Ok, that is one my kids tease me they like about onsite....a maid makes their bed and empties the trash.....yeah, ok, but I tell them pay me the difference between the hotel and our condo and I'll do their chores, lol.

3. Kitchen. Our trips are usually 3 to 5 weeks in length.....eating restaurant food for that many days honestly, ain't as much fun as it sounds. The condo/houses that we rent have a full size kitchen to go along with those couches in the living room and the dining room table with a chair for everyone! I have heard the argument that it's vacation and you don't want to cook....well, my family enjoys cooking....although on vacation it is typically dump something in the crockpot, set the timer and if we get back in time, hot dinner, if not, the timer turns off and when I get home I put in the full size fridge to heat up another day. We do simple cooking so it really isn't that big a deal for us, and 5 minutes and the dishes are in the dishwasher. Now I will admit it helps having children old enough, and trained well, to help in the kitchen. My husband only rarely comes to Florida, but when he does, even he pitches in to help cook/clean. And the money we save on food (not to mention calories) means even more nights in Disney.

4. Location. We stay no more than 20 minutes away...and our favorites are more like 10 minutes away. There is a pool, and although it's not themed, it's also not crowded. Often we have it all to ourselves. And the hot tub.


What can Disney do to change our mind.....honestly, since you ruled out discounts and better pricing....probably not much. We're waiting like everyone else to see what Free Dining dates come out, since we have a trip planned for the MNSSHP, but honestly, I think we're going to find , like the last couple of years, that once we pick the "I NEED to go to that restaurant" that it's still cheaper for us to pay for our dinner and stay offsite. But every year we look and hope and run the numbers and come up with such a HUGE chunk of savings that we cancel and stay offsite and take in the restaurants that we truly want to eat at and leave the rest alone.

Now I do understand those who can only take a week off work, staying onsite and eating out for 7 days....yeah, we probably would too. But for our long trips we just can't justify the cost and the lack of space and our desire for a kitchen. Our trip in May is only 18 days, a relatively short one due to commitments, but staying on site is 2 1/2 times as expensive and throw is no space and it's just not worth it to us.

 

[999DoomBuggies]

Last time I stayed onsite I was overcharged for a tiny room that was never really cleaned even though I always left a bunch of extra cash on the bed each morning. In addition, I found it to be more convenient to stay offsite and drive to the parks. Onsite transportation is not worth the headache. Also, customer service is terrible. I was lied to regarding magic bands, I was charged for an RFID mug that should not have happened, and the rooms are ridiculously far from civilization e.g. POR.

The bellhop was awesome. I gave him a huge tip for being the only magical person in that whole damn resort.

I rather stay at a low key marriott than a disney resort. Each year I am willing to drop many thousands on wdw and dl vacations but no longer on resorts and likely not wdw until things straighten out a bit. Resort management is in desperate need of change.

Excuse my grammar and typos!

 

[kathy884]

My big issue with onsite is value for the dollar.

I have stayed onsite seven times, but in all seven cases my room or campground site was paid in full for me by someone else.

Onsite stays:
Three at the Contemporary hotel -- On all three stays DH has a seminar there and his company was paying

One at Port Orleans Riverside -- Again DH has a seminar at the Contemporary, but did not sign up early enough to get a room there and was placed with overflow people here

Three times at Fort Wilderness - This was in the 70s. I was a teen and was staying with my parents in their motorhome.

** My favorite onsite was when I had a high floor tower view room at the Contemporary. But do you know how expensive those are? // Very nice, but **

For me there is a gap between my perceived value of an onsite stay and the dollars charged. I just don't place a big value on onsite.
_____________________________________________________________
I've stayed offsite about 31 times:

My normal week long offsite stay is rental of a highly rated condo at a timeshare resort from an owner. Usually the cost is a little more than one room at a value and quite a bit less than one room at a moderate. Plus the condos usually sleep eight people and I am splitting costs with another family, making it even more economical. We often get together with extended family here. I can rent an offsite place over spring break for about $1000 for a week easily. This is the kind of accommodation I like for a week if I can afford it and I can afford it offsite.

OK so the question is what would it take for me to stay onsite sometime. Every once in a while -- I'd pay more to maybe lets say get a two bedroom at Bay Lake Tower for the week (splurge). Being that close to the MK and close to the monorail for a good price could get me to consider that. - Maybe I'd go up to $2000 for the week (double my cost). I checked for spring break and for a standard view room two bedroom at Bay Lake Tower it's 240 points (5 * 48) points for Sun - Thurs and 114 points for Friday and Sat (57 *2). That's 354 points. If I pay $10 a point (I think the going rate is $12 a point, so I'm being conservative), my cost would be $3540 ($354 * 10) for the week. So what would it take? It looks like my being able to get DVC points over spring break for a full week for $2000/354 at a price of $5.64 a point would get me to consider onsite occasionally. We're really far off. The math just isn't working, as that's getting points for less than 1/2 the going rate of $12 a point I've seen.

My nephew works for Disney, so on my last mini stay could have gotten me a cast member discount. That was tempting, but still not a good enough deal for me to go for.

There are a few times (short stays of four nights or less) that I stayed in offsite hotels walking distance to Sea World (Hilton Garden Inn SeaWorld) -- got a deal for $79 a night on Expedia for this lovely three star property (And that wasn't priceline or hotwire). Marriott Renaissance (Wanted to splurge on a four star hotel, and with the SeaWorld package my base cost was about $130 a night -- about the same as a moderate with a cast member discount at the time I stayed there).

I like having a car in Orlando too, as I do non Disney things. I usually have gotten a car on onsite stays, so that is not really on onsite savings for me.

I like the Disney parks, but don't get the "Disney Magic" thing people talk about who stay onsite. Their prices just are not very magical to me.

*****************************
Short answer: DVC club point available for $5.64 a point over spring break. I usually in a week long just do one or two Disney parks, so the parking savings is not a huge factor either. I have a problem with the multiday ticket pricing that only gives big discounts after three days (the fourth day and on) as two park days at WDW is all I want to do there.

 

[Donut23]

My big issue with onsite is value for the dollar.

I have stayed onsite seven times, but in all seven cases my room or campground site was paid in full for me by someone else.

Onsite stays:
Three at the Contemporary hotel -- On all three stays DH has a seminar there and his company was paying

One at Port Orleans Riverside -- Again DH has a seminar at the Contemporary, but did not sign up early enough to get a room there and was placed with overflow people here

Three times at Fort Wilderness - This was in the 70s. I was a teen and was staying with my parents in their motorhome.

** My favorite onsite was when I had a high floor tower view room at the Contemporary. But do you know how expensive those are? // Very nice, but **

For me there is a gap between my perceived value of an onsite stay and the dollars charged. I just don't place a big value on onsite.
_____________________________________________________________
I've stayed offsite about 31 times:

My normal week long offsite stay is rental of a highly rated condo at a timeshare resort from an owner. Usually the cost is a little more than one room at a value and quite a bit less than one room at a moderate. Plus the condos usually sleep eight people and I am splitting costs with another family, making it even more economical. We often get together with extended family here. I can rent an offsite place over spring break for about $1000 for a week easily. This is the kind of accommodation I like for a week if I can afford it and I can afford it offsite.

OK so the question is what would it take for me to stay onsite sometime. Every once in a while -- I'd pay more to maybe lets say get a two bedroom at Bay Lake Tower for the week (splurge). Being that close to the MK and close to the monorail for a good price could get me to consider that. - Maybe I'd go up to $2000 for the week (double my cost). I checked for spring break and for a standard view room two bedroom at Bay Lake Tower it's 240 points (5 * 48) points for Sun - Thurs and 114 points for Friday and Sat (57 *2). That's 354 points. If I pay $10 a point (I think the going rate is $12 a point, so I'm being conservative), my cost would be $3540 ($354 * 10) for the week. So what would it take? It looks like my being able to get DVC points over spring break for a full week for $2000/354 at a price of $5.64 a point would get me to consider onsite occasionally. We're really far off. The math just isn't working, as that's getting points for less than 1/2 the going rate of $12 a point I've seen.

My nephew works for Disney, so on my last mini stay could have gotten me a cast member discount. That was tempting, but still not a good enough deal for me to go for.

There are a few times (short stays of four nights or less) that I stayed in offsite hotels walking distance to Sea World (Hilton Garden Inn SeaWorld) -- got a deal for $79 a night on Expedia for this lovely three star property (And that wasn't priceline or hotwire). Marriott Renaissance (Wanted to splurge on a four star hotel, and with the SeaWorld package my base cost was about $130 a night -- about the same as a moderate with a cast member discount at the time I stayed there).

I like having a car in Orlando too, as I do non Disney things. I usually have gotten a car on onsite stays, so that is not really on onsite savings for me.

I like the Disney parks, but don't get the "Disney Magic" thing people talk about who stay onsite. Their prices just are not very magical to me.

*****************************
Short answer: DVC club point available for $5.64 a point over spring break. I usually in a week long just do one or two Disney parks, so the parking savings is not a huge factor either. I have a problem with the multiday ticket pricing that only gives big discounts after three days (the fourth day and on) as two park days at WDW is all I want to do there.

You speak of Value. Very important to us even though we are avid Pixie Dust fans. DH and I first met standing in line at BTMRR.

DH is a Castmember. We fly from NY.

He works with some rabid Disney fans. When colleagues return and say at 50% off the resorts are still overpriced for what you receive, there is a problem.

We fly to DL for our "fix" now. DL seems to feel less like the poor stepchild.

We also spend our travel $$$$ where our travel $$$$$ is appreciated.

And.....we go places Disney can never compete with. In 40 days we will land in Anchorage for 16 glorious days in Alaska.

When God was creating a place where he could go on his 2 weeks of vacation, he made Alaska. One day in Denali and you too will be saying.....Disney who?

 

[ArwenMarie]

For our next trip, we are probably going to stay at Universal onsite and see Disney from there. We just love the Express Pass and we also loved Portofino compared to the Disney Deluxes, at least the ones where we have stayed. The food was also better. So I think in the same way DCL spoiled you, Portofino/Uni spoiled us for the Disney resorts in a way. But we still love the Disney parks.

We always rent a car, so Magical Express and the internal park transportation isn't a perk for us.

 

[gibsontrio]

We stay at Shades of Green. It's next to the poly, so while it's technically offsite , it's not. For the $130 a night rate we pay, it would take a heck of a lot more than a mickey shaped towel to convince my family of 5 to stay anywhere else. Maybe :
Price drop for 5 person rooms
Full fantasy suites , not talking about cars borders or mickey towels
Free dining without having to book reservations or plan times ( unrealistic maybe, but the planning and counting points is too much work)
I liked the pp idea of character breakfast everyday for hotel guests.

 

[daisy87]

We have stayed onsite twice (pop both times) and loved it when it was myself and DH. This upcoming trip in August will be our first offsite experience since we are going with my mum,dad and brother.

My issue with onsite is they simply don't offer accommodation big enough to fit our group within a decent price. I know we could have had a AOA family suite but there's only 1 separate bedroom so that would of meant my brother sharing a room with either my mum and dad or me and DH and this wouldn't of suited us at all (2 weeks is a long time to go without some "alone" time lol), we all need our own private room but the cost of booking either 3 single rooms or 2 suites out priced us from staying onsite.

When me and DH return on our own in the future we will probably always stay onsite as I think it's lovely, just wish they did 2 bedroom apartments!

 

[nugov2]

For me there is nothing onsite offers that I cannot get off site(that I want/need). I can dine at all the resorts(we love the character meals and try to fit in as many as we can), participate in all the activities. We don't care for EMH or transportation and even off site I don't feel the need to cook or clean anymore than I would in a hotel. Off I can get beautiful accommodations with lots of space(important for my family of 5). It isn't even price, but WDW doesn't offer high end and a large space. I do have high expectations for where we sleep and don't follow the philosophy that we just sleep there so who cares. To me that is the most important part of my vacation because if I can't rest comfortably then it is impossible for me to enjoy the rest of my vacation. Now if they started offering a lot more FP or something similar to universal unlimited FP I would consider staying on site for a night or two to get it, otherwise it isn't for us right now.

 

[EMode]

I've stayed on and offsite...and will stay offsite for the near future without a really cool perk.

Why did I move offsite? Bonnet Creek was built before the AoA Family Suites...and, nothing has convinced me to go back once I experienced Bonnet Creek AND the price.

But, what could lure me back? Free character breakfasts every morning onsite at my Disney hotel (included in the price) - for hotel guests of that Disney hotel only. Free special resort-specific experiences at my hotel daily (even moderates/values) - the possibilities are endless. Make the world feel like a resort, not a cheap Motel-6. That would get me back.

I might even pay rack rate if I got the above - but Disney would have to be willing to give me more to have me pay more...and the current Disney trope of separating experiences to have guests pay for each of them means that's unlikely to happen.

I think the bolded sums it up for me. I have stayed onsite and off, and while I love Beach Club and its location it doesn't feel like a resort it just feels like a nice hotel. There are plenty of nice hotels in and around Orlando for alot less! At WDW I'm paying resort prices, I'd like a resort experience.

 

[magrudersmakes3]

I love staying onsite and have stayed many times on Disney property. The cost factor has moved us offsite this time. We are staying in a 2 bedroom for $500 less than we stayed in a studio at BLT last year and $700 less than 2 rooms at Pop.

 

[Gumbo4x4]

$$$$$$$

Even with Summer discounts, on site is still way more $ than a comparable offsite stay. We drive to FL and find getting around on Disney property to be a breeze, even for a first timer. EMH is the only thing we're missing and that doesn't come close to being worth the additional cost.

 

[Disney Queenie]

Free Dining is the only way we stay on site, or like this trip my DBIL is treating us to a bucket list stay at AKL savannah view

However, free dining is not as attractive as it use to be for our family. We have gotten use to a 2 bedroom, 2 bath, nicer pools and driving on Disney property with no bus wait or crowding. We stay at bonnet creek and are as close to the action as any other Disney resort.

The Disney feel only goes so far for us, as we like the room and awesome pools.

So only free dining and even then it is a maybe for our family.

 

[denneg]

Yes, they can make the prices more affordable. For what they charge, the only perks that I get are the transportation to and from MCO and the ability to give them more of my money for the dining plan.

We are PAP's and a military family, as well as raising DVC grandchildren (my parents own) so we do stay onsite regularly. We right now have two trips booked - offsite in May, on in Sept through DVC - and are booking another DVC trip for Feb.

Disney does make it more affordable for military families, when I price our Sept trip through Disney directly or with military pricing, the military price is something I would consider paying. But I would only pay it if we were then eligible for free dining, and we wouldn't be. (Of course, staying on DVC points we also aren't eligible for free dining, which is why DH refuses to buy into DVC, it's unfair to exclude the people who are ultimately paying more for their stay than anyone else).

However, as military, we are also eligible for other more affordable options, like two weeks in a two bedroom condo for less than $400. Total. So for us, if we are not going on DVC points, we will always stay offsite. I want to go more often, and I can't afford to go more than once a year if we stay onsite at the military prices for a one-bedroom (the smallest I will consider). I want the space, I like having a kitchen, I want a washer and dryer in my unit - and I can get that multiple times in a year for what I would pay for one week to Disney.

So if Disney wanted to win us back, the rack rates would be lowered to a more reasonable level so the discounts we have actually make it an affordable room. And I don't understand why they don't do this - if we are onsite, we (as in my family, not everyone) are guaranteed to eat in your restaurants, only go to your parks, and buy your merchandise. We would be locked into Disney because we use ME, and we always buy the dining plan when staying onsite. So I would think we are an ideal example of a family that you would want staying onsite, because it would mean thousands more coming in, rather than our money going to outside restaurants, checking out other parks and shopping elsewhere!

 

[KatieCharlotte]

We are typically offsite but stayed one night at POR. We drive and hate using the bus system, so transportation is not a perk we care about. We really enjoyed the resort pool and boat to DTD, but that is something we only need one day/night to enjoy.

For a longer visit, we will still move offsite. The main reason is price, especially for a family of five. Even with the room-only discount, the cheapest room with an occupancy above four people was $180/night. For families of six, it's much more $$. Meanwhile, the Disney area has so many very affordable options for large and extended families.

It's not that hard to create budget hotel rooms for families of five or six. On our way down, we stayed in a tiny drive-up motel room with a rollaway for $70. We have also stayed in many Comfort Suites, which accommodate six with a pull-out couch at an average of $100/night. [All prices after tax.] I know other families who would be onsite if only Disney offered budget rooms with rollaways, trundles, pull-out couches, or bunks.

The other issue is the space and privacy of multiple bedrooms, which Disney only offers at a very high price. The area has an amazing vacation rental market, with large condos ten minutes from the parks at $700/week, which is difficult to compete with.

 

[OtherScott]

This is for those who stay offsite, but feel free to post if you have an opinion!

1. 1. Have you ever stayed onsite? Yes
   
   If so, is there a reason you are now considering an offsite stay? Space
   
2. 2. Short of discounts and free dining, what could Disney do to get you to stay on property? Nothing

Discounts have been released for summer months, of all things! But it appears (from a call today) that there is still plenty of availability in June. This got me thinking - Why are they having difficulty filling rooms?

I have my own opinions and reasons I am leaning toward offsite, the least of which is a horrid stay at the Beach Club in 2011. I like the Caribbean Beach Resort and wouldn't mind a moderate, but would like a nicer hotel for this trip. In short, we are considering offsite because I know we can find a much nicer hotel for less money. 30% off just isn't cutting it. I don't think 50% off would cut it after the last stay we had.

In order to win me back, I am thinking I need to see
1. The exceptional customer service we came to love from day one of our first trip.
2. The "Disney Magic" that won us over return. I'm not talking about freebies. I would love to see anyone getting pixie dust! What I mean are the little touches - the things you can't get at the Waldorf, Hilton, Sheraton, or even Hampton Inn!
3. Upkeep at the hotel that is congruent with the price point for the hotel. For the price of the Beach Club, I expect upkeep to be at least as good as any of the above mentioned chains. Not light fixtures out of order, exposed wiring and dirt in the windows and floors.

I don't know, maybe DCL spoiled me. I've got it! Disney Resorts can win me back by giving me the same service that I get on DCL!

Am I the only one feeling this way?

There isn't much Disney could do to get me on property. We tend to stay a minimum of 8 nights and for that I want a 3 bed/3bath townhome. Disney doesn't offer this at any price.

I want a fridge/freezer stocked with beer/pop/milk/juice/ice/ice cream, a toaster for bagels, microwave, plates, forks/spoons/knives, dishwasher. I like real sofas and chairs, and dining room tables, and a clothes dryer for my swimming trunks, and extra towels already in the room. I like ceiling fans and windows that open. And rooms, with walls and doors that close because everyone wakes and sleeps on different schedules.

If Disney added a lot of perks just for on site guests, I could book and pay for a Value for my entire trip, add that to the cost of my 3BR Windsor Hills townhome, and still be money ahead. And we could then spend time at the resort pool before letting the boys jump up and down on beds we'll never sleep on (or is it "in?")