ObamaCare Info

[Colleen27]

But your company can opt out and pay the penalty (cheaper for many) so you will be FORCED TO GET OBAMA CARE!

But they've always been able to opt out, and more do every year. Only the penalty for doing so is new.

 

[lauradis]

But they've always been able to opt out, and more do every year. Only the penalty for doing so is new.

Its the hour limits that seem to be freaking out corp.

Girl friend works as manager at two walmarts in the area

one let go of most of their part time staff or bumped them up to full time and plan to hire seasonal temp part time staff only.

other walmarts bumped everyone but management, security, down to below the part time limits.

She finds it funny that this happen in August normally they are starting to lose college help then wait a month and then hire like mad in oct. for hoildays

the plan is to hire half the staff they did last year.

Local fire and police dept that use part time help too will only allow the guys to work 20 hrs week starting in Jan

 

[leahjade]

But they've always been able to opt out, and more do every year. Only the penalty for doing so is new.

Big difference now - companies in the past wouldn't drop health insurance and risk losing all their employees to companies who offer insurance. Now they can lose the hassle of dealing with insurance and say "you can now get insurance from Obama Care." And I have heard many employers are doing exactly that!

 

[Colleen27]

Big difference now - companies in the past wouldn't drop health insurance and risk losing all their employees to companies who offer insurance. Now they can lose the hassle of dealing with insurance and say "you can now get insurance from Obama Care." And I have heard many employers are doing exactly that!

You don't think they run the same risk of losing employees by doing that, considering that not only would it be a pay cut equivalent to the employer's share of the health insurance premiums but would also mean an additional expense for employees to manage on their unchanged take-home earnings?

 

[mom2rtk]

You don't think they run the same risk of losing employees by doing that, considering that not only would it be a pay cut equivalent to the employer's share of the health insurance premiums but would also mean an additional expense for employees to manage on their unchanged take-home earnings?

Not if a bunch of them do it at the same time. But that would never happen....

 

[Colleen27]

Not if a bunch of them do it at the same time. But that would never happen....

But again, that's always been the case. If a bunch of major companies had decided to eliminate health benefits at the same time, particularly if concentrated in one industry, they could get away with it. Otherwise they'd lose employees. Nothing has changed on that front other than the fact that they'd now pay a fine for doing so (if they're big enough).

I don't believe for a second that any of these horror story predictions are anything but posturing by those who want to see the law repealed, but if they did I think it could very well be a blessing in disguise. The entire conversation about this law has revealed a stunning lack of empathy in our culture. The opposition is rooted in "The system works for me, so obviously it works" and "Let them get Medicaid" has become the "Let them eat cake" of modern America. I can't believe how many people there are in our nation who quite simply couldn't care less if the person who served them their coffee this morning or rang up their groceries over the weekend can afford adequate medical care.

 

[mom2rtk]

But again, that's always been the case. If a bunch of major companies had decided to eliminate health benefits at the same time, particularly if concentrated in one industry, they could get away with it. Otherwise they'd lose employees. Nothing has changed on that front other than the fact that they'd now pay a fine for doing so (if they're big enough).

But of course it's different now. They have a cover story and will have safety in numbers.

I think what we've seen now are just the first few dominos falling. I'm really afraid for what will happen once it really gets going.

 

[jedijill]

But again, that's always been the case. If a bunch of major companies had decided to eliminate health benefits at the same time, particularly if concentrated in one industry, they could get away with it. Otherwise they'd lose employees. Nothing has changed on that front other than the fact that they'd now pay a fine for doing so (if they're big enough).

I don't believe for a second that any of these horror story predictions are anything but posturing by those who want to see the law repealed, but if they did I think it could very well be a blessing in disguise. The entire conversation about this law has revealed a stunning lack of empathy in our culture. The opposition is rooted in "The system works for me, so obviously it works" and "Let them get Medicaid" has become the "Let them eat cake" of modern America. I can't believe how many people there are in our nation who quite simply couldn't care less if the person who served them their coffee this morning or rang up their groceries over the weekend can afford adequate medical care.

Well said!

Jill in CO

 

[eliza61]

But again, that's always been the case. If a bunch of major companies had decided to eliminate health benefits at the same time, particularly if concentrated in one industry, they could get away with it. Otherwise they'd lose employees. Nothing has changed on that front other than the fact that they'd now pay a fine for doing so (if they're big enough).

I don't believe for a second that any of these horror story predictions are anything but posturing by those who want to see the law repealed, but if they did I think it could very well be a blessing in disguise. The entire conversation about this law has revealed a stunning lack of empathy in our culture. The opposition is rooted in "The system works for me, so obviously it works" and "Let them get Medicaid" has become the "Let them eat cake" of modern America. I can't believe how many people there are in our nation who quite simply couldn't care less if the person who served them their coffee this morning or rang up their groceries over the weekend can afford adequate medical care.

Agreed.

Now I can only speak to my industry, chemicals and petroleum. Not one, major chemical or petroleum industry company would dream of dropping their health insurance benefit. My company just sent out a letter stating the exact opposite. If you are an employee and want to opt out of the company benefits you have to fill out a boat load of forms and get them to HR.

My company is in over 90 countries and plans on increasing it's employees by 15% over the next 5 years (mainly in bio fields, if the big honchoos are to be believed) and no way could we be competitive without our benefit package.

Now I've never worked at a small company, when I attended tech con and other conference, places like apple, google, BP and all the heavy hitters all plan on keeping their benefits exactly as is.

What amazes me constantly about the "I got mine, the heck with everyone else" mentality is that it always cost everyone.

People still have this naive belief that the poor and disenfranchise don't effect them. Really? healthcare is eating up more and more of our gdp waay before this bill. health care cost is eating up more an more of Americans paycheck, waaay before this bill. when that person who serves you coffee gets sick, they don't magically disappear.
Now I can't say I always act on a higher moral ground. I haven't been following this as closely as I should primarily because I know I have decent health insurance.

 

[pryncess527]

You get what you pay for. The old adage has always been true -- and companies that slash benefits to save pennies will suffer for it through their inability to attract quality talent. Case in point:

Wal-Mart, the nations largest employer, announced Monday that 35,000 part-time employees will soon be moved to full-time status, entitling them to the full healthcare benefits that were scheduled to be denied them as a result of Wal-Marts efforts to avoid the requirements of Obamacare.

While some analysts believe that the move comes as Wal-Mart is attempting to deal with the negative view many Americans have of its worker benefits program, a closer look reveals the real reason for the shift

Wal-Marts business is going south due to the companys penchant for putting politics and the squeeze on Wal-Mart employees ahead of the kind of customer satisfaction that produces prosperity over the long-term.

In fact, Wal-Marts unwillingness to pay most of their workers a livable wage, while avoiding enough full-time employees to properly run a retail outlet, has led to the company placing dead last among department and discount stores in the most recent American Customer Satisfaction Indexa position that should now be all too familiar to the nations largest retailer given that Wal-Mart has either held or shared the bottom spot on the index for six years running.
For anyone who has not been following the Wal-Mart saga, sales have been sinking dramatically at the retailer as the company has turned to hiring mostly temporary workers (those who must reapply for a job every 180 days) to staff their stores while cutting full-time employees hours down to part-time status in order to avoid providing workers with healthcare benefits.

The result?

Empty shelves, ridiculously long check-out lines, helpless customers wandering through the electronics section and general disorganization at Wal-Mart store locations.

This is hardly a recipe for success.

The rest:
http://www.forbes.com/sites/rickung...macare-not-such-a-job-killer-after-all/print/

 

[leahjade]

The entire conversation about this law has revealed a stunning lack of empathy in our culture.

That would be true IF all these entitlement programs actually REALLY HELPED any one. All it has done is created an ever-growing population of people generation after generation dependent on the government for their every move. There comes a sense of satisfaction and self esteem that comes from working and paying your own way that you are taking away from people just to win their votes and to make YOU feel less guilty.

 

[pilferk]

People still have this naive belief that the poor and disenfranchise don't effect them. Really? healthcare is eating up more and more of our gdp waay before this bill. health care cost is eating up more an more of Americans paycheck, waaay before this bill. when that person who serves you coffee gets sick, they don't magically disappear.
Now I can't say I always act on a higher moral ground. I haven't been following this as closely as I should primarily because I know I have decent health insurance.

I've been lurking, and am going to steer away from the "good/bad" pieces of the discussion..but this needs further comment.

People need to remember there is no such thing as a free lunch. I work at a large metro teaching hospital (non-profit). There is no such thing as "free" healthcare...someone is paying at LEAST the "costs" part of that bill. Medicare, Medicaid, grants, or just offsets by charging everyone else "more".

We do not turn anyone away for care. We do not ONLY provide ED care to those without insurance. We do not require you put up "up front" money for us to care for you. That's just the way we operate (and I know it's NOT the way all institutions operate..but I can't comment on their business practices).

But, at the end of the day, the hospital has to pay for the medicine, the equipment, the supplies, and the personel who provided care. I'm not sure how people think that is being done, right now? Because...with the high % of uninsured/underinsured (because Medicaid does not, in many cases, cover the costs incurred for care) that need care...it's NOT (currently) via insurance. SOME of it is via grant money, which we work hard to have in place. But even that's not enough. So....ultimately...those costs are passed along via higher level of care charges, and by higher margins on medicine and supplies, to those who CAN pay (either Out of Pocket, or via higher costs to the insurance providers).

That's the long and short of the way it works as of today.

Again, I'm not going to argue whether the "new" system will change any of that..or whether it's good or bad. But people should realize how it's working NOW.

 

[leahjade]

We do not turn anyone away for care. We do not ONLY provide ED care to those without insurance. We do not require you put up "up front" money for us to care for you. That's just the way we operate (and I know it's NOT the way all institutions operate..but I can't comment on their business practices).

This is the way ALL hospitals that my physician daughter has worked at operate (and she has worked at several in three different states). People need to know how the system really is (not what the media wants you to think). There are many patients who turn up again and again and are treated without insurance and not in the ER. They do not take their meds, they continue to smoke, drink, do drugs and are a drain on the system. And we are not talking about a small number here. They are referred to clinics to be educated and receive routine healthcare (for free!) but you can't force them to change their behavior no matter how much money you throw at nutrition programs etc. These people are not going to have the money to buy insurance from an Obama care exchange, so again I ask what is the point of all this? In my opinion the end goal is to have an entire class of people dependent on the government.

 

[leahjade]

The entire conversation about this law has revealed a stunning lack of empathy in our culture

I am so sick of people acting like I am selfish and not caring because I disagree with an entitlement program that may bankrupt our country and will make our children pay for this disaster for their entire lives. We give over 15% of our income to charity every year (and we are strictly middle class) - can you say the same? Usually the people who want to help others with other people's money seldom write their own checks. Between our income taxes. property taxes and sales taxes, we now only receive 60% of our paycheck for our own family expenses so I don't know how much more we can give. Now you are talking about doubling what we pay for health insurance and for what? Don't you care about what you are doing to your grandchildren's futures? There is no way half the population can continue to pay for everyone's healthcare, housing, food, utility help, cellphones, internet. The math just doesn't add up no matter how much you FEEL FOR PEOPLE. It has been proven that charitable organizations can help people in a much more efficient cost efficient manner than government ever can.

 

[pilferk]

This is the way ALL hospitals that my physician daughter has worked at operate (and she has worked at several in three different states). People need to know how the system really is (not what the media wants you to think).

Except...they don't all work that way. Not even most of them work that way. They should, but they don't. There are plenty of "for profit" institutions, most of them in urban settings, that will patch you up, stabilize you, and then transfer you to a charity or non-profit institution...because that's all the law requires in most states.

Sad, but true.

There are many patients who turn up again and again and are treated without insurance and not in the ER. They do not take their meds, they continue to smoke, drink, do drugs and are a drain on the system. And we are not talking about a small number here. They are referred to clinics to be educated and receive routine healthcare (for free!) but you can't force them to change their behavior no matter how much money you throw at nutrition programs etc. These people are not going to have the money to buy insurance from an Obama care exchange, so again I ask what is the point of all this? In my opinion the end goal is to have an entire class of people dependent on the government.

True, though it's not a majority of patients, or even a majority of "Self Pay" patients.

Edit: And, FYI, it's also true of some patients with insurance and good, steady jobs. Nicotine, alcohol, and drug addicts are not specific to the lower income brackets....

So,what's the alternative? To let them die?

Because, otherwise, you're paying for their care. Either via tax, or via increased costs.

Again, not arguing the "good/bad" of entitlements or Obamacare. I'll refrain from that piece of the discussion. Just the realities, rather than high minded theory crafting.

Whatever their failings, whatever their issues...you either provide them with care, or you let them die. If you provide them with care...that care incurs costs that have to be offset, somewhere.

 

[manning]

Except...they don't all work that way. Not even most of them work that way. They should, but they don't. There are plenty of "for profit" institutions, most of them in urban settings, that will patch you up, stabilize you, and then transfer you to a charity or non-profit institution...because that's all the law requires in most states.

Sad, but true.



True, though it's not a majority of patients, or even a majority of "Self Pay" patients.

Edit: And, FYI, it's also true of some patients with insurance and good, steady jobs. Nicotine, alcohol, and drug addicts are not specific to the lower income brackets....

So,what's the alternative? To let them die?

Because, otherwise, you're paying for their care. Either via tax, or via increased costs.

Again, not arguing the "good/bad" of entitlements or Obamacare. I'll refrain from that piece of the discussion. Just the realities, rather than high minded theory crafting.

Whatever their failings, whatever their issues...you either provide them with care, or you let them die. If you provide them with care...that care incurs costs that have to be offset, somewhere.

You present some interesting points.

What's you're source.

Right now I lean towards the pp with the physician daughter only because of her source.

 

[pilferk]

You present some interesting points.

What's you're source.

Right now I lean towards the pp with the physician daughter only because of her source.

I currently work (and have worked for about a decade) at a large, prominent, ivy affiliated urban hospital. I'm not allowed to specifically mention which one..but there's only one in the state below my name, so it's not a leap to figure out which one.

I've worked in healthcare for about 20 years, some of it in Decision Support, most as an Information Coordinator for our Trauma Dept (meaning research, cost accounting, payor mixes, and hundreds of other data projects/involvements from basic demographics to hardcore statistical modeling on patient care/outcomes).

I've networked with institutions all over the country, and have contacts with something like 100 trauma centers/EDs in settings ranging from extreme rural to large urban.

I'm an active participant, analyst, and modeler of 2 large scale (one state, one national) databases involving patient care, demographics, and outcomes. One of them is required participation for all Level 1 Trauma Centers in the US.

I've been published as a data source/analyst in articles in a number of publications (Journal of Trauma, New England Journal of Medicine, etc).

I've been faculty on a number of regional and national conferences, specifically regarding data analysis, uses of data, and data modeling.

CV available upon request (but only from serious inquiries regarding employment or presentations).

So, in essence, my source is professional experience and 10+ years of data analysis....with a hefty dose of common sense (ie: the nothing is ever truly "free" part).

 

[eliza61]

I am so sick of people acting like I am selfish and not caring because I disagree with an entitlement program that may bankrupt our country and will make our children pay for this disaster for their entire lives. We give over 15% of our income to charity every year (and we are strictly middle class) - can you say the same? Usually the people who want to help others with other people's money seldom write their own checks. Between our income taxes. property taxes and sales taxes, we now only receive 60% of our paycheck for our own family expenses so I don't know how much more we can give. Now you are talking about doubling what we pay for health insurance and for what? Don't you care about what you are doing to your grandchildren's futures? There is no way half the population can continue to pay for everyone's healthcare, housing, food, utility help, cellphones, internet. The math just doesn't add up no matter how much you FEEL FOR PEOPLE. It has been proven that charitable organizations can help people in a much more efficient cost efficient manner than government ever can.

Leah,
I just wanted you to know that I don't think you are selfish. I think you are frustrated like many, many people. myself include. Nothing wrong with that.

My problem is I think you and many people believe that some how you don't already pay for indigent care. YOU DO!! That some how if we do nothing, it will not cost us any more. That is not true.

Now the way I look at it is this way. Since we are already paying for the poor in some fashion (and I don't forsee that changing) it is ludicrous to keep going in the model we have now. You talk about math as if our current system is sustainable. It is not. every year we (as a country) spend more and more of our GDP on healthcare while serving less and less. so our current system is expensive and inefficient. Most of the job growth we've seen has been in low paying service sector jobs. Once again these people are working and will need care, yet can't get it so they are already a cost.

Now I do care about my grandkids future, I care that unless their parents are "uber" rich they will receive a second rate education and a second rate health care system. THAT'S the system we have now. A very small % of our population gets first class medicine, a small % of our population receives a great education.

Sorry this is not the only problem effecting our grandchildren. with piss poor educations, and good paying manufacturing jobs a thing of the past, it's a good chance that our "grandchildren" will be in lower paying jobs that offer no insurance any way.

Now with all that being said, I'm not a huge fan of this new health care plan. There are some parts I do like, like not being denied a policy due to pre existing conditions and having my kids stay on my policy until they are 26.

 

[MinnieLovesMickey12]

I am so sick of people acting like I am selfish and not caring because I disagree with an entitlement program that may bankrupt our country and will make our children pay for this disaster for their entire lives. We give over 15% of our income to charity every year (and we are strictly middle class) - can you say the same? Usually the people who want to help others with other people's money seldom write their own checks. Between our income taxes. property taxes and sales taxes, we now only receive 60% of our paycheck for our own family expenses so I don't know how much more we can give. Now you are talking about doubling what we pay for health insurance and for what? Don't you care about what you are doing to your grandchildren's futures? There is no way half the population can continue to pay for everyone's healthcare, housing, food, utility help, cellphones, internet. The math just doesn't add up no matter how much you FEEL FOR PEOPLE. It has been proven that charitable organizations can help people in a much more efficient cost efficient manner than government ever can.

I agree with this 100%. I will say this my husband is the bread winner of our family and after you add up all the taxes he pays we get around 50% of his annual income. We have to pay state income tax here on top of every other tax that everyone else pays.

I tjink it is ridiculous what an entitlement country we have become with millions and millions totally dependant on the government generation after generation.

So let's add one more entitlement program for us all to have to pay for.

And the bad thing is the whole plan for this is to eventually get to a single payer system. Socialized medicine. Which will be the end of quality healthcare as you know it.

I have friends in Canada that have told me the average wait to see a specialist there is around 18 months. It will be worse than that here because. We have many more ppl than they do.

 

[Colleen27]

That would be true IF all these entitlement programs actually REALLY HELPED any one. All it has done is created an ever-growing population of people generation after generation dependent on the government for their every move. There comes a sense of satisfaction and self esteem that comes from working and paying your own way that you are taking away from people just to win their votes and to make YOU feel less guilty.

There also comes a profound, depressing, and demoralizing sense of futility when you're working 60 or 70 hours a week and always have it in the back of your mind that you're one injury away from losing everything, when you're avoiding seeing doctors at all because you can't afford a diagnosis that would put insurance even further out of reach. And it doesn't help when the well-off tell you that it is for your own good.

This is the way ALL hospitals that my physician daughter has worked at operate (and she has worked at several in three different states). People need to know how the system really is (not what the media wants you to think). There are many patients who turn up again and again and are treated without insurance and not in the ER. They do not take their meds, they continue to smoke, drink, do drugs and are a drain on the system. And we are not talking about a small number here. They are referred to clinics to be educated and receive routine healthcare (for free!) but you can't force them to change their behavior no matter how much money you throw at nutrition programs etc. These people are not going to have the money to buy insurance from an Obama care exchange, so again I ask what is the point of all this? In my opinion the end goal is to have an entire class of people dependent on the government.

You're only seeing one side - the ones who get treatment. You're not seeing the benefits for the families who need to come up with up-front money before getting treatment for cancer, the diabetic who goes without care until his disease has done enough damage for him to qualify for disability, the woman who is given weeks to live because the time she spent not going to a doctor she can't afford gave the cancer enough time to progress to the point of hopelessness.

I am so sick of people acting like I am selfish and not caring because I disagree with an entitlement program that may bankrupt our country and will make our children pay for this disaster for their entire lives. We give over 15% of our income to charity every year (and we are strictly middle class) - can you say the same? Usually the people who want to help others with other people's money seldom write their own checks. Between our income taxes. property taxes and sales taxes, we now only receive 60% of our paycheck for our own family expenses so I don't know how much more we can give. Now you are talking about doubling what we pay for health insurance and for what? Don't you care about what you are doing to your grandchildren's futures? There is no way half the population can continue to pay for everyone's healthcare, housing, food, utility help, cellphones, internet. The math just doesn't add up no matter how much you FEEL FOR PEOPLE. It has been proven that charitable organizations can help people in a much more efficient cost efficient manner than government ever can.

It has been proven that charitable organizations don't go nearly far enough to meet need, that their budgets shrink at the very time the need grows, and that those with the most to give tend not to choose poverty-oriented causes. We give more than we can comfortably afford, but it isn't even a drop in the bucket compared to the need that exists even in our little community.

Yes, I care about my kids' and grandkids' futures. I care about the fact that our health insurance costs have more than doubled in the last decade and continue to rise by double digit percentages every year. The path we're on right now is not sustainable. We are heading down a road where two of the most essential aspects of a long and prosperous life - education and health care - are already out of reach of the lower and working classes and are heading out of reach of the middle class as well. I don't want to see this country become what is taking shape around us - a nation sharply divided between a professional class with access to the best health care and education in the world and a service class making near-poverty wages to bolster the stock portfolios of the "ruling" class while relying upon the uncertainties of charity for basic needs like health care.