O/T-- Concerned about DS5-- Learning Disability?

[ekatiel]

We decided to keep my five year old DS in preschool for one more year (he turned five in July), but I am starting to get concerned about some skills that he hasn't picked up yet. For instance, he knows all of his letters and all of their sounds, BUT he still can't sing the ABC song properly. Also, he has a great number sense-- I can ask him, "Which number is bigger 30 or 35?" and he will tell me 35. I can ask him, "When you are 7, how old will your brother be?" and he can tell me 5 (which is the correct answer), BUT he still can't count to 20 (he gets mixed up in the teens). He also is lacking in phonemic awareness-- he can't really rhyme yet, he has a hard time blending letter sounds, etc. Am I just being the crazy, over-protective, former teacher mom, or is there a possibility that there's something wrong? Thanks for any input.--Katie

 

[i12go2wdw]

Here is a hug for you there is not worry like a parent's worry. I run a daycare and have for 17 years. I once had a beautiful, bright boy that could not learn his colours, I would hold up two pegs and say this one is blue and this one is red, then I would hold up one of them and ask him (he only had two colours to choose from) and he could never get it right, this went on until he went to Kindergarten. He just got a full 4 year scholarship to UNB.
All that to say, keep an eye on it, try different ways to teach the same thing and do not worry, it wont help even if there is a problem ( and if there is, catching it this young means it will probably be taken care of before there is any delay).

 

[QVCshopper]

but just today, I watched a mom have her 3-year-old write her name (a great accomplishment) and then complain that the girl wrote most of the letters upside down. In my opinion, the mom was expecting too much from her daughter. And I've seen stuff like that a lot.

That said, my DD4 has a few developmental delays and while it's been a long road, she's doing much better now. I would ask your son's teacher what s/he thinks about his development. And maybe work on some of those things at home and/or at school. You do have another year before K, though, and a year is a long time for kids to change.

I will tell you that my DS3 mixes up counting in his teens, but my DD4 does not. They both have a good understanding of number concepts, etc. like you said.

Best of luck. I'm in no way an expert, just a loving parent who believes that kids usually develop in their own time, but some need a little extra help along the way.

 

[laughinplace199]

Well, I'm not a teacher or anything, just a mom of three, but I'd get him evaluated. If he is having trouble with the ABC song, rhyming, and counting, it couldn't hurt to get him looked at since most 5 yr olds can do those things. However, maybe he is a late bloomer in some areas and he will pick it up this year. In any case, it can't hurt to have him evaluated. Then, if there is a problem, you will have caught it early. If there isn't a problem, no harm done.

Good luck!

 

[hroyale]

Just a thought: When was the last time his hearing was checked? Has he had problems with ear infections?

 

[ekatiel]

Just a thought: When was the last time his hearing was checked? Has he had problems with ear infections?

He also has a mild articulation delay and receives speech therapy for that (through the school district). He did have fluid in his ears last year, but they gave him a hearing test, and he scored within normal limits. We were very close to putting tubes in, but when the hearing test came back normal, we backed off. --Katie

 

[hroyale]

See if he can write the numbers 1 -20 or take blocks or something with 1-20 on them and line them up.

I'm no dr or teacher, just a mother with similar age children in special ed for speech and autism spectrum. I wonder if this is more of a speech problem then a learning one. When the question is complex, but his response is a simple word or two, he seems to get it right. (How old will your brother be...) I don't think my DD could answer that. But when he's asked something that involves a lot for him to say, he seems to struggle even though the task is more simple (counting to 20).

When speech is their only form of communication it can be difficult to say where the speech problems end and the learning delays start. My DS had few words by 2 and a half, but when he started talking at 3-4 we learned that he could count to over a hundred, do simple math, spell etc... He just had no way to let us know before.

Maybe singing the alphabet isn't his thing. That doesn't mean he doesn't know the alphabet.

Best of luck. And try not to worry about what he's "supposed to be able to do" but focus on what the things he does say about his ability.

Heather

 

[shepherdgirl]

As a teacher and mom myself, I think you made the right choice starting him in Kinder next year. July makes for a young kinder student, although not impossible, it's difficult on the student. I'm sure you're aware of that as a former teacher, though. My bday is in July and I started young, that challenged me all the way through school. I'm very sympathetic to the needs of these kiddos.
One thing to keep in mind with all this is that all children learn in different ways. I'm a music teacher and see many children come into my room and learn things so much easier through music. However, I also see those that come into my room and struggle with anything that is musical. Maybe that explains the alphabet, maybe not.
I'd keep on with the speech therapy. There is a lot to be said for that. Being in music, I see many of the children in prek and bridge programs that are in speech. The progress they make in just a few months is astounding.
Hang in there, you're not being crazy or overprotective. I think you're just being a mom.

 

[mrsbornkuntry]

We decided to keep my five year old DS in preschool for one more year (he turned five in July), but I am starting to get concerned about some skills that he hasn't picked up yet. For instance, he knows all of his letters and all of their sounds, BUT he still can't sing the ABC song properly. Also, he has a great number sense-- I can ask him, "Which number is bigger 30 or 35?" and he will tell me 35. I can ask him, "When you are 7, how old will your brother be?" and he can tell me 5 (which is the correct answer), BUT he still can't count to 20 (he gets mixed up in the teens). He also is lacking in phonemic awareness-- he can't really rhyme yet, he has a hard time blending letter sounds, etc. Am I just being the crazy, over-protective, former teacher mom, or is there a possibility that there's something wrong? Thanks for any input.--Katie

You just described my kindergartener, almost to a T. He's knowns his letters and their sounds since he was 3, he can write his name, but up until last week he could not sing the alphabet correctly at all (he turned 5 in April). When he counts he ALWAYS skips 15, but he can count to 30 after that. He can also add. When he was evaluated for Kindergarten I was concerned about these things and his teacher was actually impressed with him. She didn't really care if he could sing the alphabet because she was going to teach him to SAY it instead so he could get the "LMNOP" part right. She said most kids get mixed up or skip a couple when they get around 14, 15 and 16 when they count at that age. My son does have a speech disability, he got tubes put in his ears this summer and is getting speech therapy I think starting next week.

If you think he has a speech problem, which is possible even without a hearing problem (we went through that with my now 10yo) it doesn't hurt to have him evaluated. Remember though, kids learn at different paces. My 10yo didn't even know all of his letters by the END of kindergarten, he simply wasn't ready yet. We put him in first grade anyway so he could get tutoring and by Christmas he was caught up and now he's above grade level.

OOPS--I'm sorry, I missed your post where you said he receives speech therapy, ignore my last paragraph please!

 

[hroyale]

She didn't really care if he could sing the alphabet because she was going to teach him to SAY it instead so he could get the "LMNOP" part right. She said most kids get mixed up or skip a couple when they get around 14, 15 and 16 when they count at that age.

That's so funny that you wrote those two things. I was chatting with DH about my post and we were talking about how we weren't worried that our DD always skips 15 and says 14 twice. And messes up singing the alphabet. We're not worried at all about her learning ability. She's not advanced like her bro, but she's doing just fine.

Also to the OP: I didn't mention but about 80% of people I know who have kids with a July or later b-day kept them out of k the first year. Nobody has told me they ever regretted it. At least one or two who didn't hold them back DID regret it later.

 

[Alesia]

It sounds like a speech processing issue. Have you talked to the speech therapist about it?

 

[dis-happy]

I'd consider that normal for some 5 year old boys.....my ds was the same way. Couldn't say his alphabet all the way through at the beginning of the year but was reading by the end of the year. He did need a lot of repitition, which we go through Saxon Phonics (we homeschool).

Keep in mind that their brains are still developing at this age; I'm sure you'll see a lot of progress this coming year!!!

 

[chipnwendy]

The kid across the street was in kindergarten last year, and his abc song went, "A-B-C-D-E-G-7", so I don't think you guys are out of the ordinary.

 

[PollyannaMom]

See if he can write the numbers 1 -20 or take blocks or something with 1-20 on them and line them up.

I'm no dr or teacher....

You might not be those things, but I wish I'd had a friend with your insight when DS was in preschool!! He used to mess up the teens, too. (He got them eventually, but I probably would have spent much less time worrying if I'd tried your block idea.)

OP - In light of the fluid and speech (and knowing more now than I did then), I think she's hit it exactly - the ___teen words sound too much alike, and the other kids singing fast tend to "mush up" parts of the alphabet song into meanless run-ons. Keep up with the speech, and use visuals like hroyale said, or even kinesthetics (like jump on the numbers chalked on your driveway or something.)

 

[Kanga+2Roos]

Hi Katie!
First of all a huge since I understand what you're going through.

My DS was tested earlier this year in 1st grade & was found to have a learning disability which I'm told is dyslexia. He has been in speech therapy as well & was getting extra reading help in kindergarten by a reading specialist. When we had parent/teacher conferences with the specialist she would always say "I'm very concerned about him" but would never say why when I asked what she meant--I just figured it meant they may hold him back in school. Well, they moved him into first grade since he was showing improvement & wasn't "flatlined" but once again last fall the specialist used the same wording at our conference. I finally said--what are you trying to tell me? Then she just said "well, you know that you can request to have him tested by the district specialist to see if he has any learning disabilities". Okay--why didn't you tell me that one year sooner!

So, now he is starting 2nd grade & he will be in special ed two hours each day--one hour of reading & one of math. I'm really excited about this & hope this will get him on track.

My advice to you is to come straight out & ask someone at the school if you should have him tested for any disabilities at this point or if you should wait until he is in kindergarden. Like the other posters have said, he is probably right in the normal range for his age & everything will just click into place. I'm glad that you are waiting the extra year to have him start kindergarten--with the pace that they are learning now it is definitely to his advantage to go into it on the older end of the group instead of being one of the youngest.

Don't stress out over it--just keep doing what you're doing & stay on top of things! You're doing a great job!

 

[J'aime Paris]

Keeping your son out of K for one more year was a wise decision!!

I have worked in K for the past few years, and I can easily identify a child with a Fall b-day vs. a Summer b-day. Size, maturity, speaking skills, all change substantially in a short period of time at this age.

In general, boys develop language, writing, fine motor, and reading skills more slowly than girls. (And these skills are heavily emphasized in K.)
In general, boys excell at mathematics, large motor skills, and problem solving activities. Girls typically find these challenging.

I cannot evaluated your situation fully from the description, but my inclination is that he seems typically developing for a newly turned 5 year old.
That being said, if your "gut" tells you different, get him assessed. You know your child best.

 

[princessmom29]

We had an "open forum" meeting for K parents with the school counsellor last week at DD's school. We talked at length about a lot of the things you are describing. She says that it is all normal stuff for 5's. According to her, there is a lot of develomental variance at this age and that that really only goes away by about second grade. Also, she presented us with several studies to read, all which indicated that holding children back is NOT a good idea. The disparity in maturity level and ability typically idsappears by second grade, and a child who was identified with potential problems. but not held back gets to continue in school with same age peers and tend to do better long term than those that are hled back in an attempt to allow them to "catch up". Holding back has been the prevailing wisdom at our school, and I have never agreed with it unless a child presents a serious developmental problem. A child who is held back knows it, and so do his/her peers. That alone can cause enough problems later on in their schooling to warrant not doing it. MY DD has achild in her class who is turning 7 this week. Having watched him interact with the other children, it is obvious that he knows he doesn't quite fit in there, and it makes me sad for him. He is bigger than all the other children, and not interested in the same games and toys.

 

[hmacmahony]

First, starting a child late, is NOT holding a child back. If a child does two years of kindergarten, that is holding them back. I have 4 kids, all have been held (or will be), a year because of when their birthdays fall. Most children that are held a year have birthdays when the school year first starts, or late summer...how is that so much of a difference for the other kids in the class. NOT ONCE has a child ever said anything to my child, because first and foremost WE DID NOT HOLD THEM BACK. We started them in kindergarten at almost 6, huge difference. I can find you plently of studys that show how much better a child does when starting kindergarten as an older child, rather than the youngest. I supposed we could find studys proveing anything though..

To the OP, if he has an IEP, get him tested, bring it up to the school see what they say. Sounds like he is fine to me, but just not intrested in those things (and that means a lot when you are 5) The best thing you could of done is give him another year to grow, and learn before starting kindergarten. I would just keep learning fun, don't push him, but make everything into a fun game, if he doesn't catch up, immediatly say something to his kindergarten teacher next year too!

We had an "open forum" meeting for K parents with the school counsellor last week at DD's school. We talked at length about a lot of the things you are describing. She says that it is all normal stuff for 5's. According to her, there is a lot of develomental variance at this age and that that really only goes away by about second grade. Also, she presented us with several studies to read, all which indicated that holding children back is NOT a good idea. The disparity in maturity level and ability typically idsappears by second grade, and a child who was identified with potential problems. but not held back gets to continue in school with same age peers and tend to do better long term than those that are hled back in an attempt to allow them to "catch up". Holding back has been the prevailing wisdom at our school, and I have never agreed with it unless a child presents a serious developmental problem. A child who is held back knows it, and so do his/her peers. That alone can cause enough problems later on in their schooling to warrant not doing it. MY DD has achild in her class who is turning 7 this week. Having watched him interact with the other children, it is obvious that he knows he doesn't quite fit in there, and it makes me sad for him. He is bigger than all the other children, and not interested in the same games and toys.

 

[MSSANDRA]

First, hugs to you!

The things that he CAN do are much deeper thinking/processing learning skills than the things he can not do. Singing the ABC song is simply memory work where he is showing a true understanding of the way numbers and letters work.
However , because of his past ear infections and because the delayed skills involve simply repeating words I would ask for a recheck of his hearing. He is being served already so it should be easy to evaluate these concerns and it never hurts to be sure. I am a BIG fan of delayed school entrance (did it with DS) and think that extra year will be good for him as well.

 

[karliebug]

I have taught kinder. and first grade for 26 years. He sounds perfectly normal to me. Remember that all kids are different and progress at their own speed. Some 4 year olds can read and some don't learn until age 7, but in the long run it evens out. Also, sometimes kids develop very quickly in one area-gross motor skill, for example. They can skip and ride a 2-wheeler, but their speech is immature. Others sound like little professors when they talk but can't catch a ball. Take a deep breath and relax. When he starts kdg. if you are still concerned talk to his teacher about it. If he is getting speech therapy, continue with that. Childhood should be a journey, not a race.