NYC getting looted live on a youtube feed Monday 9 pm sad

[Planogirl]

The problem is that these acts and behavior have been going on for quite some time not simply because of the pandemic.
I expect many police unions and similar to use the threat of quitting as a sledgehammer type talking point.
Somewhat on topic I've noted the educational background of some of the current LEOs being investigated, indicted, or charged with crimes. It is not what I think it should be and that is part of the problem IMHO.

I can't speak for other areas but I do know that Dallas was having a lot of trouble hiring officers. Maybe some departments became too flexible when it came to qualifications?

That aside, I do expect actual good officers to quit and not just use threats. Hopefully it will be the bad ones instead.

 

[NYCgrrl]

I can't speak for other areas but I do know that Dallas was having a lot of trouble hiring officers. Maybe some departments became too flexible when it came to qualifications?

That aside, I do expect actual good officers to quit and not just use threats. Hopefully it will be the bad ones instead.

NYC generally has a years' long waiting list to be accepted by the Police Academy (think that's what it's called); I really can't speak for other areas either. However here, they've excellent pension benefits unlike many other civil servants, good medical, etc. so I don't see many cops leaving because of changes in the manner they are administered.

 

[JimMIA]

Yes I see what you are saying but if a pattern of bad behavior in the personnel file is there for the prosecutor's office then it must be made available to the defense as well assuming someone is trying to show a pattern of similar behavior during a trial. Otherwise the defense has grounds for a mistrial/appeal.

Basically it seems we agree with fine nuances being brought to the fore.

Right, but inadmissible is inadmissible. Personnel files are not going to be presented to a jury.

The other point is that prosecutors can't correct systemic problems within police departments unless there are crimes committed. The most a prosecutor can do is convene a Grand Jury to investigate the internal workings of the department -- and THAT may be very relevant in some of these cities.

But the internal systems have to be changed, and that is the easy part. The hard part is the day by day application and enforcement of the new systems to give the result you're looking for -- and that is 100% internal within the department. Unless the department is determined to change, any change will be minimal and temporary.

 

[JimMIA]

That aside, I do expect actual good officers to quit and not just use threats.

Officers will quit. Not necessarily the ones who are pounding on their chests and threatening, but there will be a good bit of attrition. I expect Buffalo, NY to be especially hard-hit, as well are areas which have had significant conflict like the Minneapolis-St. Paul area.

And it won't be the bad ones -- they will tend to stay. It will be good officers, and officers who have other job skills who decide police work is no longer the career they had hoped for. Job security and benefits will not retain officers who have had enough.

To give you an idea, following the 1980 riots in Miami, my department lost almost 30% of our officers. And that was from a good, well-managed, prestigious police department! We had recruiters from all over the country come to Miami to recruit from my department and also from Miami PD.

We got to the point where we had uniform patrol districts, on the busy afternoon shift, that had 6-7 officers on duty in vast geographic areas that should have had 20-25 officers. Emergency responses of 10 miles/>10 minutes became routine. Good times.

The other thing troubled departments can expect is "risk avoidance."

There is an enormous amount of individual initiative involved in good police work. Police officers don't have to quit or stage BS "sick-outs" to hurt their communities -- they can just scale back their effort and avoid anything that might lead to a complaint..

Good cops are good because they choose to be and they work at it. Mediocre cops just handle the calls they are assigned, exert minimal effort, and do little or nothing proactive. The result is poor service for the public and reduced deterrence of criminal activity.

 

[skyblue17]

The NYC curfew has been lifted.

From what I can tell, there has not been widespread looting since the middle of the week. Hopefully this means that any protestors this evening will not be met with cops in riot gear. It does seem that as soon as cops prepared for a fight arrive, a fight ensues.

 

[Imzadi]

The NYC curfew has been lifted.

Yes! The protestors are now having huge rally in Times Square. They are expected to be here the whole night, now that the curfew has been lifted.

I think canceling the curfew early actually has more to do with all the violence the police has been perpetrating in the past couple of days trying to enforce the curfew. The incidents have been published & posted all over. It backfired on them. There are even MORE groups out protesting for BLM now.

The Mayor had only been relying on a briefing from the police commissioner every morning, as to what happened the night before. He was NOT listening to balanced reports from other sources. Of course, the Commissioner had been saying the NYPS handled things calmly & peacefully while arresting protestors.

Appalled, more than 200 of the Mayor's current & previous staffers published an open letter blasting him defending the NYPD's use of tactics.

https://www.nydailynews.com/coronavirus/ny-coronavirus-bill-de-blasio-staffer-letter-protests

 

[Imzadi]

Hopefully this means that any protestors this evening will not be met with cops in riot gear. It does seem that as soon as cops prepared for a fight arrive, a fight ensues.

You posted a tweet from the first night where they enforced the curfew right after 8pm in the Bronx. The police surrounded the peaceful protesters from all sides. They called it a "kettle technique." Where they slowly move in, forcibly shoved the protestors together in the center with their bicycles & batons, then started beating them with batons, before taking them down, zip cuffing them, then none too gently, moving them on to police vans.

Several neutral, professional journalists were there observing the protest. ALL say the protestors had been totally non-violent, even as they were surrounded and swarmed upon with the batons. The peaceful protestors started shouting in typical Bronx vernacular, "We are being peaceful. What the **** are you?"

Now, in addition to rallies & marches in Manhattan & Brooklyn, there is one in the Bronx in front of the Bronx Supreme Courthouse.

Even a conservative Jewish community in Brooklyn has their own march today in support of BLM. That Jewish community neighbors a black community in Brooklyn and they've had a long history of clashes over stuff. They said they can't sit this injustice out.

Edited to add: Protestors peacefully rallied in a Staten Island, too, today.

 

[Imzadi]

The riot gear on the NYPD is completely gone! No more helmets, carrying zip cuff, and most importantly, those awful batons the officers used to beat the protestors are gone. They are only dressed in their uniforms. As they walk the perimeters of the protests, there are a lot less of them than in previous days.

 

[mom2rtk]

The riot gear on the NYPD is completely gone! No more helmets, carrying zip cuff, and most importantly, those awful batons the officers used to beat the protestors are gone. They are only dressed in their uniforms. As they walk the perimeters of the protests, there are a lot less of them than in previous days.

It will be quite interesting to see how (if) they handle actual riots going forward.

 

[Imzadi]

It will be quite interesting to see how (if) they handle actual riots going forward.

I was walking a couple streets over from where the protests were. The NYPD parked all the police vans & cars over on those side streets. They were parked angled away from the curb in such a way that they could easily jump in and mobilize quickly if necessary. They were all in plain view, with a lot of cops standing and hanging out next to the vans, casually chatting with each other. Still no riot gear or zip cuffs. I suppose all that and the batons are packed in the vans. A lot more pleasant for both parties, to have the cops casually on stand by, for either a riot or looting, but not be in angry protestors faces. Or being at the receiving end of all that anger.

 

[Imzadi]

New York has enacted four new civil rights and police reform laws today:

1. There is transparency of police officers’ prior disciplinary records. It repeals a law called Section 50-a, which shielded the police from having to release their records and then used in court. Their records are now public the same as any other public worker, under the Freedom of Information Act.

2. The Eric Garner Anti-chokehold Act: Bans chokeholds or the use of a similar restraint by police officers that causes injury or death. This now is a class C felony punishable by up to 15 years in prison.

3. Nicknamed the "Amy Cooper" Law: Prohibits making false race-based 911 calls.

4. The NY Attorney General will act as the independent prosecutor in killings of unarmed civilians by police, (instead of the local prosecutor, who may have a conflict of interest, as they later need the cooperation of the police department they are investigating, for other cases.)


A little FYI: Valerie Bell, the mother of Sean Bell, and Gwen Carr, the mother of Eric Garner, were present when these were signed into law. Maybe they can breathe a little easier now.

"We shall overcome because the arc of the moral universe is long but it bends toward justice."
~ Dr. Martin Luther King Jr.

 

[Imzadi]

Another new NY law was enacted today:

The New Yorker's Right to Monitor Act: affirming the right of an individual to record law enforcement activity and to keep the recordings as well as the cellphones, cameras, etc., in their own possession, used to make the recordings.

This is a crucial law as: There are times when recordings are turned over to the police, investigators or attorneys, then the cellphones become "lost" or the recordings become corrupted or "accidentally deleted." The world then never knows what truly happened, nor are the recordings able to be used in court,if copies aren't made first by the owner, before turning the recordings over these parties.

After the killing of a black man in a Wendy's parking lot in Atlanta this weekend, the DA said this morning that he already is having trouble in getting the full dash cam and body cam recordings released to him from the police. The store surveillance camera footage and the cellphone recordings by eyewitnesses in the Wendy's parking lot, may be the most accurate and full recordings he will be able to get.

Is there any wonder that the U.S. is on Day 17 of protest? There were 15 (or more) separate protests throughout NYC on Sunday.

 

[Imzadi]

Inspired by the "Black Lives Matter" street mural in Washington, D.C., Brooklyn residents & artists painted their own version on Fulton St, in the Bedford–Stuyvesant neighborhood in Brooklyn. They will be personalizing this mural by painting over the letters with the names of approximately 4 pages black people throughout the U.S. who died due to racial violence. (It can be seen in the video below.)

 

[tinatark]

Another new NY law was enacted today:

The New Yorker's Right to Monitor Act: affirming the right of an individual to record law enforcement activity and to keep the recordings as well as the cellphones, cameras, etc., in their own possession, used to make the recordings.

This is a crucial law as: There are times when recordings are turned over to the police, investigators or attorneys, then the cellphones become "lost" or the recordings become corrupted or "accidentally deleted." The world then never knows what truly happened, nor are the recordings able to be used in court,if copies aren't made first by the owner, before turning the recordings over these parties.

After the killing of a black man in a Wendy's parking lot in Atlanta this weekend, the DA said this morning that he already is having trouble in getting the full dash cam and body cam recordings released to him from the police. The store surveillance camera footage and the cellphone recordings by eyewitnesses in the Wendy's parking lot, may be the most accurate and full recordings he will be able to get.

Is there any wonder that the U.S. is on Day 17 of protest? There were 15 (or more) separate protests throughout NYC on Sunday.

42 minute long body cam is available to the public.