NY Times today -- "WDW Magic is Slipping"

[alohaguy]

Charles -

I think your observations were completely valid and well couched. I hope a copy of your article was in the inboxes of many Disney execs on Monday morning.

 

[jann1033]

our first trip to wdw was over 20 yrs ago, our last Jan 04....things have definitly changed for the worse.crabby CMs were basically unheard of, the food was worse and the parks immaculate our first trip. now the food is better, the cms more harried and less responsive to a smile and the parks while not really dirty not in the out of this world fantastic shape they were in before. not that i don't love going but it defintely is not the same...and we have had a few bad experiences over the years that were not taken care of ( maybe if i had pursued them more ferociously they would have but since i was on vacation it didn't want to take up days doing it,,,i did pursue them to the point where they should have been corrected)

i think some people on these boards expect way way way to much but also think wdw ain't what it used to be imo

 

[taximomfor4]

And TaxiMom, I apologize for not being able to include all the details of your story -- it was one of the most compelling I heard. Everything unfortunately has to get trimmed for space.

Hey, no problem...completely understood. Just wanted to make sure fellow DISers knew that my story, and yours as well, were more than the blurbs that fit into a newspaper article! I am actually happy that my story was included, and made sure my name was spelled correctly. Because at this point, I am quite unimpressed with the followthrough I was promised "if only" I would give WDW, and specifically All star Resorts another chance.

So thanks again for talking with me, listening to my story, and checking back on this board!!


Beth

 

[CPer'sMom]

It seems to me that there are two types of people who have complaints about Disney service:


2 - People who actually know from experience (many trips to WDW) what is realistic to expect and not expect. These are people who have traveled to WDW, and other destinations, often, and expect a reasonable level of service for the money they are spending on a hotel room. These are people who couldn't care less about towel animals (or at least realize them for what they are - a sporadic occurance) and are more interested in clean rooms, prompt bell services, correct reservations, correct billing, courteous front desk staff, etc., etc., etc. These are people who notice the basics of customer service and have the proper perspective to judge when service has slipped, or is below what they feel it should be. I think complaints from this group have risen - and I consider myself one of them.

The NYTimes article contained complaints that, I believe, fall solely into the second category. Basic service issues were raised, and I believe it is in these basic services that WDW has slipped. I keep returning despite the service, not because of it, and I wish that would change. I expect for billing errors (of which I've had two whoppers), reservation errors, housekeeping issues, less-than-friendly CM's ... but I wish it were different - and it used to be, in my opinion. What disappoints me most is that I can't honestly say that Disney leads the way in customer service anymore - five years ago, I think I still would have. My only hope is that it doesn't slip any further.

Very well said ~ I totally agree. We are very frequent WDW visitors and my daughter just finished the college program at Epcot. I can definitely tell that the level of customer service (and just plain courtesy in some cases) have declined at Disney over the past few years. From discussions with CMs we know and my own daughters' experience this lack of "caring" is trickling down from the way that Disney is treating their employees.

We just returned from a trip to CSR ~ based on our stay & the problems we had (with "management" among others) we won't be returning to that particular resort. We always stay at Disney resorts when we visit so I do have the correct basis for comparison ~~

We have always loved and looked forward to our Disney trips. I, too, hope that this Disney decline doesn't continue to get worse.

 

[Hodder]

It's interesting to read all these comments...

As I said on a previous message board, I indeed went to SSR to write a very short story on the resort. It was only so many things got botched -- including plenty of stuff I didn't have room to mention in the story -- that I began to see a larger pattern. And I connected the dots with what Roy Disney had been saying about service at the company. (If you haven't read "Disney War," it's an eye-opener.) I also knew about the Orlando Sentinel's piece that looked at maintenance issues at Magic Kingdom.

Honestly, I went in with no "agenda." As I stated in article, I'm a big Disney fan. But what I experienced at SSR (we also had a problem with a breakfast outside the resort) was so out-of-line with my previous Disney visits. (I live in South Florida and go to the parks quite frequently -- we usually have annual passes.) In fact, I'd say the service level at SSR was about the worst I encountered at ANY resort anywhere -- in two decades of travel.

And TaxiMom, I apologize for not being able to include all the details of your story -- it was one of the most compelling I heard. Everything unfortunately has to get trimmed for space.

I had no problem with your article, you stated what had happened to you as well as that you did have many "wows". I recently wrote a letter to the local Better Business Bureau regarding customer service (wish I could write an article in our paper about it). I am going to Disney regardless what anyone else thinks of the service, food, CM and so on, everyone has different experiences and the write to talk/write about them.

 

[jann1033]

Very well said! I couldn't agree more!

Too many people take advantage of, or try to take advantage of that old adage. I'm sure there are many legitimate problems or complaints, but can you imagine how many aren't? We don't hear about those here nearly as much. People who demand a free room because they didn't the get extra towels they requested or people who insist on getting their admission price back because it rained?
Not only do people expect more, but they DEMAND more (and from what I've seen, not in a very nice way)

while i agree that might be a problem....my own personal experience was not that. i asked for nothing ( no upgrade,no money ect) but to have a few problems addressed and nothing was done about any of them..one including a cm who totally messed up our reservations then swore at me( i don't swear nor was i rude ) and hung up on me was finally addressed weeks later (after i wrote a letter and called and called and called) with a "too bad it happened" but not an "apology" call. after of course i spent tons of money on long distance calls due to 20 mins each time of listening to what ever disney song was playing at the time before i got to talk to someone who usually could not or would not do anything about anything, including the mess my ressies were in. I wonder how many people start off with a valid complaint and peaceful spirit but after getting the run around forever turn into the demanding creeps you allege they start out. disney's customer service is not good, far too much misinformation from cms and mistakes that are not rectified.

 

[WaltD4Me]

You know, I also find it interesting that many people who I've heard complain that Disney is not "perfect" are also the same people who claim it is too expensive. That always makes me laugh. The people who want extremely happy, cheery CM's and plenty of them and immaculate, not a scrap of paper on the ground parks, also want it to be cheap to go there.

I know the cost isn't really mentioned in the article, but my point is, people want more for less.

A one day, one park admission is $58 and a one day admission to Cedar Point is $48. In comparison, well,...there is no comparison! I'd pick Disney any day. I mean, believe me, if there is a sudden rainstorm at Cedar Point, you don't see workers immediately rushing out to squeegee the sidewalks and wipe down the benches and even the tops of garbage cans like I saw at Disney and if you want surly workers, go to Cedar Point.

So even if a case can be made for some slipping at Disney, they are still SO far above the rest, it would take a major fall...just not a little slipping...for them to be in the same category with most amusement/theme parks.

 

[Weegl]

Not to pile on here, but...

My family and I have been coming to WDW regularly ever since it opened (I was 8 then). Bottom line is that things have changed, some for the better, some unfortunately for the worse.

We have, and will always, enjoy WDW for the magic and joy it delivers to us. But there is no question that service has changed for the worse, and frankly, the type of customer and their expectations have changed for the worse also. I've seen some pretty unattractive attitudes from the many visitors over the years, and it seems to increase with each passing visit.

Our world has changed and it is full of unrealistic expectations and skepticism. Unfortunately, it has also invaded our "escapes" to places like WDW.

I wish it could be turned around, but I'm not sure that's possible.

 

[alohaguy]

You know, I also find it interesting that many people who I've heard complain that Disney is not "perfect" are also the same people who claim it is too expensive. .

I don't think that anyone who has reached adulthood genuinely expects WDW to be 'perfect' - or anything else for that matter. I think that many have come to expect superior service at WDW over the years, and now find that that service has slipped back to the rest of the pack. This leads to disappointment, in my opinion.

Is WDW 'better' than any other theme park out there today - that's still a matter of opinion, but I would say absolutely it is. That doesn't mean there's room for service to take a tumble - eventually those who so veraciously defend WDW at all costs will have poor service experiences as well, and this issue will become even larger. For those of us who love WDW, and have for decades, let's hope service improves.

 

[AlanH]

The role that hourly CM and first line managers play in the guest experience (for good or bad) at WDW can not be overstated. My wife is a part time hourly CM in merchandising and was full time. While I was searching for a job in Central Florida I also was a part time hourly CM in merchandising.

I believe over the last 50 years our society has changed for the worse in the treatment of hourly workers. Sadly, Disney has been affected by these societal and economic changes.

The widening dispartity in pay between hourly and salaried workers has been well documented. I remember when growing up that many hourly workers in the retail business (such as grocery stores) received competitive enough pay (and retirement benefits) to make a career in their jobs. Sadly these days are over.

This is reflected at Disney in that hourly workers work under a two tier wage system. I understand that the grandfathered hourly workers with a higher hourly rate do not get pay raises but they do get "bonuses". Newer workers get lower wages. In the last union negotiations, Disney wanted to eliminate the Pension Plan for new workers.

Disney has also pushed to fill a higher proportion of the hours worked with part time CMs as a move to cut costs. While there are exceptions, I believe that in general part time CMs are less "engaged" than full time CMs.

This is also reflected in the Training. Traditions used to be a 5 day event. When my wife and I started it was 2 days. Now I understand it is one.

There also does not seem to be enough training and support for first line managers. The quality of first line managers is very uneven. Many first line managers just do not make hourly CMs feel valued or appreciated. This has a great effect on the morale of hourly CMs. On the other hand there are also many first line managers that are terrific; however, I would say most of these have been with Disney for a number of years.

Basically, my feeling is the highest levels of management (Eisner?) instituted policies to improve the bottom line for the short term without considering the long term. Since I have spent my career in human resources, I was able to share my concerns with management. Many of these people were sympathetic and aware of the problems. I would say that even people at the highest levels of management at WDW felt their hands were tied by Burbank. I hope that Bob Iger will be able to change direction at the highest levels and this will enable management at WDW to do what they know in their hearts is best for the long term success of WDW.

I will say that people in Human Resources at WDW work very hard to preserve the magic in spite of the constraints placed on them. There have been many WDW wide gestures that my wife and I as cast members appreciated such as the "job fairs", holiday gifts and the hurricane pin.

My wife Carol and I are big fans of Disney and WDW. It is one of the reasons we moved to Central Florida. We recently became DVC members. Believe me, we wish nothing more than the long term success of WDW.

 

[yoopermom]

Just back from a 12 day stay. Since DS10 has become a thrill seeker, I spend a LOT of time waiting for him outside of attractions, and so try to start up conversations with as many CMs as I can. This visit I noticed a lot of sadness and frustration in my discussions with them. Most really did seem to be doing their best, but were overwhelmed by things beyond their control. I was amazed at how many drive over an hour (or more) to get to work at WDW, because of the price of local housing. Also spoke to a bus driver who said that she's moved up fifty positions in the seniority ladder after being there less than a year due to turnover, frustration with shortness of shifts, etc. I have a great deal of respect for 99.9% of CMs, and feel that those higher-up need to be held responsible for any perceived shortcomings.
Terri

 

[alohaguy]

Basically, my feeling is the highest levels of management (Eisner?) instituted policies to improve the bottom line for the short term without considering the long term. Since I have spent my career in human resources, I was able to share my concerns with management. Many of these people were sympathetic and aware of the problems. I would say that even people at the highest levels of management at WDW felt their hands were tied by Burbank. I hope that Bob Iger will be able to change direction at the highest levels and this will enable management at WDW to do what they know in their hearts is best for the long term success of WDW.

.

This, I believe, is the heart of the issue - and well stated. Another reason why I hope the NYTimes article has an impact on Disney execs.

 

[UkJamesF]

I hate it when people are slating WDW. Im 21 and have been going almost every year since i was 5. I have been other places all over the world but none come close. Everyone seems to break their back to help you out and the atmosphere is uncomparable. People are so friendly and not just cast members. Wherever you go there will be bad apples and WDW is no different, but the positives outweigh the negatives 100 fold. I visited recently for the forth of july and travelled with 3 friends of the same age and older. They loved it and noticed the difference to where they have been. Some people will moan about anything.

 

[freakylick]

You know, I also find it interesting that many people who I've heard complain that Disney is not "perfect" are also the same people who claim it is too expensive. That always makes me laugh. The people who want extremely happy, cheery CM's and plenty of them and immaculate, not a scrap of paper on the ground parks, also want it to be cheap to go there. .

You know, I also find it interesting that when people make accusations that "these are the same people who...", they usually can't name who those "same people" are....usually because they are just assuming.

But that issue aside...maybe the people who claim it's too expensive do so because it costs a large portion of their disposable income to go to WDW. I suppose if I had a wad of cash just laying around to blow at Disney, I would be less concerned about what I am getting in return.

A one day, one park admission is $58 and a one day admission to Cedar Point is $48. In comparison, well,...there is no comparison! I'd pick Disney any day. I mean, believe me, if there is a sudden rainstorm at Cedar Point, you don't see workers immediately rushing out to squeegee the sidewalks and wipe down the benches and even the tops of garbage cans like I saw at Disney and if you want surly workers, go to Cedar Point. .

Hardly a fair comparison. First, A one day admission to CP is $45, but few people pay $45 to get in. There are good coupons which are easily available for a CP admission. Heck, just by purchasing your tickets online, you save $4. Which is $17 cheaper than a one day to WDW. And let's not even begin season pass price comparisons. Second, until CP starts advertising about their "magical" parks where "dreams come true", I don't know that people will expect immaculate parks. They advertise thrills and coasters.

(p.s.- I didn't find CP's employees to be surly during my visit...but that was just my experience)

So even if a case can be made for some slipping at Disney, they are still SO far above the rest, it would take a major fall...just not a little slipping...for them to be in the same category with most amusement/theme parks.

I don't think anyone is comparing them to the rest of the industry. They are comparing Disney "now" to Disney "then". I think we all admit that Disney is better than the alternatives..it's just not what it used to be.


Maybe everyone should go to their local Six Flags the week before heading to WDW...that would help lower expectations.

 

[alohaguy]

I don't think anyone is comparing them to the rest of the industry. They are comparing Disney "now" to Disney "then". I think we all admit that Disney is better than the alternatives..it's just not what it used to be.

This is a well-stated point, and one that is sorely misinterpreted. When Disney is compared to no one but its former self, it is precisely then that it's current discrepencies become very noticeable - in my opinion. It is, in some ways, Disney-past that WDW is in competition with.

 

[Tara]

The role that hourly CM and first line managers play in the guest experience (for good or bad) at WDW can not be overstated.

I believe over the last 50 years our society has changed for the worse in the treatment of hourly workers. Sadly, Disney has been affected by these societal and economic changes.

This is also reflected in the Training. Traditions used to be a 5 day event. When my wife and I started it was 2 days. Now I understand it is one.

There also does not seem to be enough training and support for first line managers. The quality of first line managers is very uneven. Many first line managers just do not make hourly CMs feel valued or appreciated. This has a great effect on the morale of hourly CMs. On the other hand there are also many first line managers that are terrific; however, I would say most of these have been with Disney for a number of years.

Basically, my feeling is the highest levels of management (Eisner?) instituted policies to improve the bottom line for the short term without considering the long term. Since I have spent my career in human resources, I was able to share my concerns with management. Many of these people were sympathetic and aware of the problems. I would say that even people at the highest levels of management at WDW felt their hands were tied by Burbank. I hope that Bob Iger will be able to change direction at the highest levels and this will enable management at WDW to do what they know in their hearts is best for the long term success of WDW.

Hear, hear! I work in management consulting and I think you hit the nail on the head. (In fact, one of our employees was Organizational Development Manager for 1 of the 4 parks before he came here, and he's said many of the same things.) Disney has some of the best customer service and entertainment traditions out there, but they are no longer focusing on instilling those things in new employees, and managers are either undertrained or forced to manage to policies that directly undermine those traditions. It must be so disheartening for new employees -- and frustrating for many of those first-line managers.

What a crying shame that Traditions has been shortened to just 1 day! I, too, hope this article opens some eyes up top, because, based on my experience, real organizational change is impossible when it isn't fully understood, supported and lived by the people at the top.

 

[WaltD4Me]

You know, I also find it interesting that when people make accusations that "these are the same people who...", they usually can't name who those "same people" are....usually because they are just assuming.

No, I am not assuming and I apologize, I should have clarified, that I didn't mean anyone here on these boards. I was referring to friends, family, co-workers and aquaintances, who have made comments to me (because they know I'm a Disney fan) about how things weren't "just so" for whatever reason and then will complain of the cost. And one co-worker really did gripe...endlessly...about not getting the extra towels she requested and said she should have gotten a free night...don't think she really asked for it
though! LOL!

But that issue aside...maybe the people who claim it's too expensive do so because it costs a large portion of their disposable income to go to WDW. I suppose if I had a wad of cash just laying around to blow at Disney, I would be less concerned about what I am getting in return.

Believe me, I don't have wads of cash, but I've never, ever felt I didn't get my money's worth from a Disney visit. And yes, maybe some of those who say it's too expensive do invest alot of their disposable income in a Disney trip, but again I was referring to people who have said this to me personally and some of them, not all, aren't hurtin' because they went to Disney.

As for CP, I admit that was probably a poor comparison, but then again, what can compare to Disney?

That being said, the points AlanH made in his post were excellent and I'm sure very true. Sadly everything changes and unfortunately Disney doesn't live in a magic time bubble where everything remains the same. I honestly believe the only way for Disney to be what it used to be 20 years ago, people and society in general would have to be what it used to be too and we all know that ain't gonna happen.

 

[jann1033]

It is, in some ways, Disney-past that WDW is in competition with.

that's the whole point...

someone mentioned how different people are in general which i think is true. i remember on these boards people who have no problems being rude to people who mistaken get in front of them or who refuse to allow kids to sit in front of them at a parade ( "I claimed this parade spot in 1902 and will defend it to my death" even though they have seen the parade 180 times and the little kid hasn't ever seen it, it is their right after all they were here first)even though they could see clearly over them.... (talk about Magic "slippage"! ) which always makes me laugh how people can be such crabs in what they claim is the "happiest Place on earth"...hate to see them in rush hour traffic

so imo we can't all change Disney policy but we can all make things nicer at the parks by being civil.

 

[alabamagirl]

I think this reporter guy should cry me a river.

I don't care what he says, service at WDW is better than most and the people that feel the way he does shouldn't come to Disney anymore because they just ruin the magic.

 

[Synonymous]

I've been going to WDW for quite some time now, and there is no question in my mind that customer service is slipping. It's no answer to say that it's still better than other places. Disney became what it is (or was) because it earned a reputation for being near-perfect. That reputation is rapidly draining away. I believe that was the main point of the article. Just as Disney's movies are not what they used to be, the parks are no longer what they used to be. Do we want to see WDW overtaken by other companies in theme parks the way it has been in animation?

If you want employees to really care about the customer's experience (and, really, can we still say that Disney considers us "guests" rather than "customers"?) then you have to make sure those employees are happy. Not just "happy to have a job" but happy to be doing what you're paying them to do. They have to feel secure, they have to feel valued. If a CM is worried that s/he is going to be replaced by a part-time worker, have his or her pension cut, or not be able to afford the rent on his or her apartment on what the pay is, how can you expect that person to go out of their way to add "magic" to the customers' day?

It's great that so many CMs there still manage to provide these magic moments. But, in my personal experience, those CMs are becoming more and more rare, and they are being replaced by something that USED to be rare at WDW- surly or uninterested employees.

If we allow the company to hide behind the fact that service is still "better than Six Flags" then there will come a day when it no longer is.

This is undeniably the fault of upper management, meaning, primarily Eisner. And let's remember, Eisner picked Iger. I'm so disappointed that Roy and Stanley rolled over. This is precisely the time when a loud, forceful presence calling for the return of Disney values could actually have done some good.