Now Disney Can Track Your Every Move with NSA-Style Wristbands (Time Magazine)

[beer dave]

I can afford disney...yet buy nothing.
Why?

hmmm.. I think it is because you have a lifetime of exposure to what they offer, and even if it is above what would be considered as "average", because of said exposure, you find it all becoming commonplace. We had a similar conversation about the quality of dinning--- Is the food getting worse or are we, due to somewhat over exposure, beginning to expect above "better than most"?

If a person is suddenly given everything they could ever want (I.E. winning the lottery) , eventually everything would be commonplace. There would be a period of "adjustment" during which all of the new experiences would be thrilling, but given enough time, the world being finite, excitement would wane (sp?). It's all about personal perspective.

So, you do not spend money at Disney because you have become bored with the offerings through repeat attendance.

This sounds contradictory to my comment that more income = more spending, but maybe it is just where the spending is allocated-- I don't buy trinkets, but I spend a lot on food and drinks. mostly drinks.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

hmmm.. I think it is because you have a lifetime of exposure to what they offer, and even if it is above what would be considered as "average", because of said exposure, you find it all becoming commonplace. We had a similar conversation about the quality of dinning--- Is the food getting worse or are we, due to somewhat over exposure, beginning to expect above "better than most"?

If a person is suddenly given everything they could ever want (I.E. winning the lottery) , eventually everything would be commonplace. There would be a period of "adjustment" during which all of the new experiences would be thrilling, but given enough time, the world being finite, excitement would wane (sp?). It's all about personal perspective.

So, you do not spend money at Disney because you have become bored with the offerings through repeat attendance.

This sounds contradictory to my comment that more income = more spending, but maybe it is just where the spending is allocated-- I don't buy trinkets, but I spend a lot on food and drinks. mostly drinks.

Lol...point taken

As far as "stuff" however...which yogurt told us is "where the real money is made"...it's all about quality and selection.

Think back to the 80's... The selections of things for sale at wdw was a huge advantage for them over all cheesy parks and tourist traps. It was a PR advantage.
That gap has all but closed. And the "look" of disney stuff is a signature "cheap" now.

There are some exceptions...the Dooney and burkes and the Vera Bradley's... And some real items still in the clothing shops at the deluxes...but they are becoming rare.

Heres my best example: days of Christmas can't "tolerate" selling the exclusive Radko and Jim Shore stuff anymore huh?
Wasn't worth carrying something slightly less mass produced to get me in a buying mood, huh?
Another is the junk leaking more and more into the world showcase shops.

I'm surprised they still "tolerate" personalized mouse ears.

But I hear you on food (less than I used to) and drinks (way more)
We're going to old key and animal kingdom lodge in six weeks...
So the world showcase, gurgling suitcase, and the Uzima springs pool bar better watch the hell out...

 

[beer dave]

Lol...point taken

As far as "stuff" however...which yogurt told us is "where the real money is made"...it's all about quality and selection.

Think back to the 80's... The selections of things for sale at wdw was a huge advantage for them over all cheesy parks and tourist traps. It was a PR advantage.
That gap has all but closed. And the "look" of disney stuff is a signature "cheap" now.

There are some exceptions...the Dooney and burkes and the Vera Bradley's... And some real items still in the clothing shops at the deluxes...but they are becoming rare.

Heres my best example: days of Christmas can't "tolerate" selling the exclusive Radko and Jim Shore stuff anymore huh?
Wasn't worth carrying something slightly less mass produced to get me in a buying mood, huh?
Another is the junk leaking more and more into the world showcase shops.

I'm surprised they still "tolerate" personalized mouse ears.

But I hear you on food (less than I used to) and drinks (way more)
We're going to old key and animal kingdom lodge in six weeks...
So the world showcase, gurgling suitcase, and the Uzima springs pool bar better watch the hell out...

definitely agree. I miss the fun of looking through the shops for the things you could only buy at the parks. The special is gone. And I miss the chocolate covered coffee beans I used to be able to buy to take up some time while my wife is shopping.

Going to BWV in a couple weeks. World showcase,Big River, Crews cup, and Belle View.

 

[wdwgreg]

I would doubt disney has the spare computing power to calculate 17 millions people movements at all times (ok they are not all there at once) calculate what they do, devise a computer matrix that intelligently works out what might appeal to them, based on those movements, and send out something that is more likely to get peole to return than the current that is i enjoyed my last holiday there and oh look here a code for 15% of if i go at this time
If mr and mrs doe saw it as a once in a lifetime experience and arent planning on going back, the opportunity for a daily ride on TOT without a wait is not going to tempt them back, they will either be back or not, based on their memories of the holiday

As for merch there used to be unique merchandise at most shops now i feel only AK has this, and only at certain places, for the rest of disney once i have been in three stores i have seen everything.

 

[Laketravis]

I would doubt disney has the spare computing power to calculate 17 millions people movements at all times (ok they are not all there at once) calculate what they do, devise a computer matrix that intelligently works out what might appeal to them, based on those movements, and send out something that is more likely to get peole to return than the current that is i enjoyed my last holiday there and oh look here a code for 15% of if i go at this time
If mr and mrs doe saw it as a once in a lifetime experience and arent planning on going back, the opportunity for a daily ride on TOT without a wait is not going to tempt them back, they will either be back or not, based on their memories of the holiday

As for merch there used to be unique merchandise at most shops now i feel only AK has this, and only at certain places, for the rest of disney once i have been in three stores i have seen everything.

Visa/MC probably process more transactions in a day than WDW does in a year, yet they have some very sophisticated algorithms that prove very useful in detecting purchasing patterns, fraud, niche interest, promotional opportunities, etc..

It doesn't take as much computing power or storage capability as you might think. The movement and activity of a hundred thousand guests each day captured at 30 second intervals streamed to a database for a year could be easily warehoused on a single 10tb SAN unit.

True, that may not be relevant for a family who never plans on coming back, but it can contribute to demographic profiles.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

definitely agree. I miss the fun of looking through the shops for the things you could only buy at the parks. The special is gone. And I miss the chocolate covered coffee beans I used to be able to buy to take up some time while my wife is shopping.

Going to BWV in a couple weeks. World showcase,Big River, Crews cup, and Belle View.

Crews cup is my favorite bar...
Until they go ghetto and take away the steamer pot for those horrid turkey sandwiches too

 

[lockedoutlogic]

Visa/MC probably process more transactions in a day than WDW does in a year, yet they have some very sophisticated algorithms that prove very useful in detecting purchasing patterns, fraud, niche interest, promotional opportunities, etc..

It doesn't take as much computing power or storage capability as you might think. The movement and activity of a hundred thousand guests each day captured at 30 second intervals streamed to a database for a year could be easily warehoused on a single 10tb SAN unit.

Woah...
That's like... Complicated and stuff

 

[wdwgreg]

And how much time and money has been spent on those algorithms, by visa and mc, an awful lot, and it is not something they would be willing to share with other companies such as Diseny, so Diseny would have to design there own, and i just cant see there being a return on investment there

 

[Laketravis]

And how much time and money has been spent on those algorithms, by visa and mc, an awful lot, and it is not something they would be willing to share with other companies such as Diseny, so Diseny would have to design there own, and i just cant see there being a return on investment there

But ROI is exactly why Disney has invested over $1B in MM+

That amount of money will buy a ton of programming.

 

[Yellowstonetim]

The problem is that they are figuring it out-- the higher your income, the more you will spend. This is why you will not see another value resort built. This is why they will give perks for resort level in the future. (IMO)

Unfortunately, in our society this is not necessarily true. Ever see people buying hundreds of dollars worth of lottery tickets? They aren't the rich people. I once heard the owner of a quarter of Manhattan say there are two types of people, those who like to spend money and those that like to make money. He liked to make money but actually lived modestly.

There are plenty of people that blow the life savings, max out a new credit card, or get a second mortgage to take little Timmy to Disney World. Their choice, and maybe in some cases it isn't the worst thing to do, but I'll bet Disney gets money from every demographic but the poorest.

I would doubt disney has the spare computing power to calculate 17 millions people movements at all times (ok they are not all there at once) calculate what they do, devise a computer matrix that intelligently works out what might appeal to them, based on those movements, and send out something that is more likely to get peole to return than the current that is i enjoyed my last holiday there and oh look here a code for 15% of if i go at this time
If mr and mrs doe saw it as a once in a lifetime experience and arent planning on going back, the opportunity for a daily ride on TOT without a wait is not going to tempt them back, they will either be back or not, based on their memories of the holiday

They certainly have more than enough computing power. And as someone else noted it doesn't take that much. It is a part of the business they are in to evaluate such information.

I once took a once-in-a-lifetime trip to Disney thinking it would be the only big trip we ever make there. It was so good we made another. And then another. You get the point. This is exactly what Disney wants; to make people happy and turn them into repeat customers. This information will help them. It doesn't matter what the information is, but they will use it in many ways. When your business is to trade happiness for lots of money from millions of customers, this information is pure gold.

And how much time and money has been spent on those algorithms, by visa and mc, an awful lot, and it is not something they would be willing to share with other companies such as Diseny, so Diseny would have to design there own, and i just cant see there being a return on investment there

This is Disney's business. They already have some of them. They have a whole division of people to evaluate and crunch numbers and surveys to help evaluate what they do. These people will just have more information to crunch and evaluate.

We use a product at work called SAS that is used to query large databases of information to find out all different types of things. Bet they have the same program, an equivalent, or have developed their own. Remember, this company has thousands and thousands of millions to invest.

But ROI is exactly why Disney has invested over $1B in MM+

That amount of money will buy a ton of programming.

 

[rf53]

http://entertainment.time.com/2014/01/02/disney-nsa-style-magic-bands-theme-park/

Funny, now Disney can join NSA (the only government agency that actually listens) in fighting off a barrage of propaganda about how they are violating our rights to eat Mickey Ear ice cream in private!

The way I look at it, if this helps to better control crowds, diminish wait times, and provide better service to the guests, let them have at it. Besides, if you are doing something so private or nefarious in Disney World that you don't want your whereabouts and habits tracked by "The Man", or should I say "The Mouse", then you probably need to be watched anyway!

 

[JoWiJo]

Disneys real issue is that they can't figure out why you don't shop...and it's in any biography of Walt disney.

Technically, they won't always know why someone does shop. For instance park guest #28573AJH87 just bought a hot dog not beause of its location, price, or the guest's age, gender, where they live, etc., but because the guest accidentally left their sandwich back in the room and its time to take their meds with food.

Short of mind-reading, Disney will never know everything about everybody, but they don't need to know it all. If they know enough about the masses, that's sufficient.

And then again, they'll surely want more. As they develop and refine a database, they actually can do a pretty good job of determining why someone does and does not purchase something without the guest uttering a word why. It can be rather freaky what they could possibly figure out about us by tracking us. A couple of months ago, I had heard of something involving the way Target *cough* targets their customers. I just Googled the subject and found an article related to what I had heard. If the story is true, imagine the power of Disney behind a similar system.

Of course, to go that far, they would have to have an established pattern on a particular guest. Someone on their first trip would have little to worry about. The people that would need to be concerned would be those that go frequently, AP holder or not.

But I could see a day where a guest known to ride Tower of Terror multiple times any day they visit DHS suddenly stops riding it and starts to buy soaps and lotions in gift shops gets some kind of ad in the mail for baby's first trip to Disney.

 

[disney1990]

You miss the point. It doesn't matter what ride or mickey bars, or whatever, but Disney will know everything you do and like and will be able to customize offers to you accordingly. So if you ride Tower of Terror 4 times a day, every day for a week and buy 30 mickey bars, then maybe those offers would get you to come back.

This idea will work on everyone. It is a matter of finding out what they like, what's important, and then making appropriate offers.

You never ride rides? How about a discount for giving up your FP+? You ride lots of ride from opening to closing? How about an offer of extra FP+?

There is something for everyone.

DrDisneyMD is right, expense will be recouped in a few years and then the data will be used to better our experience and bring in lots of money in the future. Which means profits into the future.

But, you can't do this.

The problem is that they are figuring it out-- the higher your income, the more you will spend. This is why you will not see another value resort built. This is why they will give perks for resort level in the future. (IMO)

At $170 a night - hardly a "value resort" these days.

 

[wendybeth75]

My shopping habits change from trip to trip. I have ventured away from the T-shirts and hats and usually pick up a purse and a scarf each trip. Sometimes a Dooney, sometimes just a cute one I see in a shop, sometimes I buy the $20 Disney resort scarf, sometimes I pick up the $6.99 one at the character warehouse at premium outlets. So I could spend $40 or $400. We also pin trade and a signficant part of our "souvenir" money goes toward pins. If Disney can figure out my shopping habits (when and why I shop) I am sure my DH would pay for that info. LOL

 

[wdwgreg]

Excatly the reason you wnet back was because you had a great trip and wanted more, not because mickey sent you a voucher for an ice cream

No they can use this to enhance the trip better crowd control what not, but i cant see how they can use this to entice individuals to come back based on individual prefrences its just to variable.


Also thinking about it, hasnt Mickey always had your purchasing info with the key to the world cards, surely he already knows what you spend and where, now he just could have the added info of what you rode before you bought it.

Yes MM+ is about return on investment and that comes from people having reduced wait times and a better experience therefore more likely to visit again, it comes from making purchasing easy to do, but harder to keep track of so you feel 'liverated' and end up spending morew cash in their parks, it comes from knowing that we can run this area x of the park on skeleton crew because we know everyone is headed to area y for the next hour or we can close restaurant a and b because we know that park wont be busy today


it is about making the disney park experience smoother and more enjoyable for most people (not the ninja fastpass grabbers) thereby increasing return business, and current spending as well as reducing staff costs by allowing them to know what they can cut back and when with much more certainty than they currently can.

 

[ChoppityChops]

People are talking as if "creepy" marketing is new... Anyone wonder why their banner ads on other sites are often disney related? Hey, guess what - it's because those sites track what you were doing before you went there, and are able to customize ads directly to you! This is happening already, just not in the micro-world of a theme park. I for one am fine with it; I'd rather see advertising for things I like that are relevant to me than for crap that in no way would I ever every entertain purchasing.

 

[Tonka's Skipper]

I still don't see the new Disney systems as anything really new. Stores, government marketing companies track us every day by things we carry and use every day............cell phones track your movements and purchases, even were you go in a store or at a part or any venue, home phones, your computer, Debit and credit cards, camera in public areas and id imagery,etc,etc and etc.

Nothing new with this Disney system, except its new and the prime target online.

AKK

 

[Tonka's Skipper]

At $170 a night - hardly a "value resort" these days.[/QUOTE



Actually $170.00 can indeed be considered a value rate when you take into consideration where you are, especially in WDW. I had also fo8nd value resorts at WDW to have deals for as little as $89.00, a good deal almost anywhere.

AKK

 

[dpswift]

I can afford disney...yet buy nothing.
Why?

Somehow it seems as though repeat visits do not require as many trinkets as first time visits.

Also different people shop differently. When DS was little we used to buy him t- shirts and dinosuars every trip. Now he just wants to go and maybe get a pin or 2.

When I go with one of my kids I rarely even shop. When I go with DH he is constantly shopping. This is out of charactor for him he rarely shops at home.

 

[JoWiJo]

Yeah, it's nothing new in terms of marketing. Whether it's online banners or grocery coupons, we've been targeted for years. I'll agree, I'd rather see ads for things that interest me instead of things I have no interest in ever purchasing (especially when the ad is a video).

Where MagicBands become creepy is that we don't know how far Disney will take things. Even in a system used for a reasonably acceptable practice, there lies the potential for abuse. And when you are talking about following guests like a shadow, there is a legitimate reason to be queasy about the whole idea.

You can talk about how little info is actually on the bands all you want, we don't know what codes will be on the bands in ten years. Or two. And probably sometime someone somewhere (perhaps a CM) will know all they need to develop a portable scanner than can read the bands, tap into Disney computers, and return useful data, and build one. Realistically, it's only a matter of time until someone finds some way to use the bands for nefarious use. Now the odds of being a victim to this are small, but they exist, and thus it's creepy.

Personally, when MM+ was announced, I decided that I'd take the option to request a card whenever Ii manage to get back there. Now, I'm warming up to the idea of the bands and will probably accept the program, as intended. Probably.

Ultimately, when talking about the MBs, it all boils down to how much one trusts Disney and their own fear of the unknown.