Not sure what to title this...

[kwitcherkicken99]

Yesterday as we were driving home from (pre)school, DS4 blurts out, "Maddie's dad's in jail and she's sad."

COMPLETELY caught me off guard.

There's not a whole lot I could say about the situation, but being that it's a VERY small preschool (only 7 kids in his class - 23 in his "grade"), there's no way the topic could have been avoided, evidently, as she just blurted it out in class. The teacher did the right thing by telling her that she was sorry that she was sad about it, and went on with the lesson, minimizing the situation the best she could.

I had practically the same response. I told him that I was sorry his friend was sad, and I asked him if he felt different about her. He said no, and I was greatly relieved. I think the biggest part of this conversation was that it closely followed him telling me that his friend Dom had a black face (that was my first heart attack of the day - I don't deal well with prejudice, makes me sooooo mad). I asked him why Dom's skin colored mattered and he said it didn't (phew!). God made him exactly the way he was supposed to be and he liked Dom - he's his best friend! (again, phew!)

My heart goes out to little Maddie. It's not her fault her daddy got in trouble, and she's a good kid. But what do I say to DS if/when the topic is brought up again (as I'm sure it will, kids that age don't have the filter of when/when not to say things). I want to positively encourage him to stay friendly to all his classmates. I do not want to see a divide in the classroom because 1 kid is "different" because of her parent's choices.

How can I stress to him that she is the same person she always has been? She's kind, and friendly, and plays well with all the kids.

I knew topics like this would come up in school... It just caught me off guard that it has happened so early.

 

[Agri]

Kids are not naturally prejudiced. Just as you saw with his best friend, they are seeing and learning a lot of things for the first time. Saying Dom has a "black face" is probably the only words he had to explain to you Dom is a different color than himself. Of course he doesn't think any different of Maddie unless he has been around a lot of people talking about how people who go to jail are losers who are a drain on society. At this age, they have to learn it from somewhere else - which is usually home.

Just sit back and relax and don't jump all over your kid - just wait things out to see what his perception of a situation is. His wording might be different than what you would use as an adult, but it does not mean that the adult ideas are behind his words.

*You* know that society would perceive those kids as different, but saying Dom has a black face is just describing his new friend. Of course Dom is different from him, and he is going to notice it and say something to you. Noticing the difference does not mean that your son perceives him AS different. Same with his friend Maddie.

You just tell him in words that he can understand that Maddie's dad did something to break the law and is in jail as punishment. Do *not* assume that he is then going to treat Maddie differently - you need to give your son more credit than that. He most likely just curious because he has probably never even heard of jail, much less someone he cares about having someone go there. Don't tell him not to treat her differently unless he starts to treat her differently, as it sounds like he is very unlikely to do so.

 

[olwyngdh]

The way I explained it to my DD when a family friend went to jail is that sometimes grown-ups do stupid things too, and that when they get put in time out it lasts a lot longer because they are older and supposed to be able to make better decisions. Having Daddy in Time out makes it really hard for the kids, because they can't see and talk to their Daddy all the time now, and don't get all the hugs that they used to get, so it was up to their friends to remind them that they are loved.

It seems to have worked...at least so far. The kids have had a lot of trouble from the other kids at school though, so the family may be moving to where they can make a fresh start.

 

[Heidict]

My 4 year old has become obsessed with jail lately. Why do people go there and if you do this or that do you get arrested. It's hard answering those questions at their level so that they understand.

I would just say that Maddie's dad made some bad choices but that they were his choices and not Maddie's. I don't think he is going to think any differently of Maddie because of this, as at this age they don't truly understand the ramifications of jail and breaking the law. Nor do they understand the stigma that comes with it.

 

[kwitcherkicken99]

Fair enough... I know I can control how we discuss things at home, but I can't control how the other kid's families do so. And it usually only takes 1 kid to turn popular opinion.

I kept my mouth shut last night about Maddie until I could figure out what to say if/when it pops up again. I worry so much with bullying being at the forefront of the news. I wasn't brought up to judge other people/make them feel bad about themselves, and I think I worry if I can pass on the same to my kids.

I think the comments about Dom threw me as he's not the only child in the class with a different ethnic background than us, though he is the first boy - maybe that was it. Both my kids were being watched by a gal who's oldest daughter and his classmate (from a previous relationship) is mixed black/white. Her sister is Hispanic/white. I assumed it was non-issue as he never said anything before now.

 

[scrapquitler]

I think the comments about Dom threw me as he's not the only child in the class with a different ethnic background than us, though he is the first boy - maybe that was it. Both my kids were being watched by a gal who's oldest daughter and his classmate (from a previous relationship) is mixed black/white. Her sister is Hispanic/white. I assumed it was non-issue as he never said anything before now.

He never said anything before now because he probably never really thought about it before. I remember when my daughter was around 4 and she saw someone of a different ethnic background and she asked me why that persons skin was different than hers...I just told her something along the lines of "Yes, John has darker skin than yours, Peoples skin can be all different colors, just like the color of their hair and eyes can be different." That was pretty much the end of it, we didn't make a big deal out of it, and she never has either. You can also put it in terms of cartoon characters: "Elmo is red and Grover is blue, they just have different colors of fur".

As to the jail thing: I would just explain that his friend is probably sad because she doesn't get to see her Daddy all the time. Jail is a place where the judge has people that have made some bad choices go to live while they get help learning to make better choices. We had to explain this to our children in terms of a relative going to prison for a few months. We wanted to make it very clear that it didn't mean he was a bad person, he just made some bad choices and it wasn't a reflection on anyone else (though we might have slightly different feelings about said relative, we didn't talk to the kids about that).

 

[kwitcherkicken99]

Cool everyone. Thanks!

I've never run through this before, so the idea of having to explain other people's differences is lost on me.

I am really digging the extended time out and jail is used to help people to learn to make better choices approach - it's an understandable explaination.

I'll have to think some more about the character references though... even though the Sesame Street "monsters" are different colors, they are also different monsters. Same goes with Disney's Fab 5 - they are all different species of animals vs. the same species and different colors. I want to be proactive in him respecting people for who they are, not what they look like.

 

[disykat]

I don't think you need to say anything. It probably has never occurred to her that it has any 'influence' on her friend at all.

In general, I think the best route at that age is to only answer questions as they come up. Anything beyond that and you might be planting ideas, not explaining thing.

I don't think you have to worry about skin color "mattering." It sounds like it was an observation, kind of like saying something about hair color or eye color.

 

[FlightlessDuck]

How can I stress to him that she is the same person she always has been? She's kind, and friendly, and plays well with all the kids.

I don't think you need to. By bringing it up at all, you are putting in his head the possibility that she should be treated differently.

 

[Becky2005]

I'll have to think some more about the character references though... even though the Sesame Street "monsters" are different colors, they are also different monsters. Same goes with Disney's Fab 5 - they are all different species of animals vs. the same species and different colors. I want to be proactive in him respecting people for who they are, not what they look like.

Maybe I'm just niave (quite possible) but would just using the reference of different colored hair/eyes be the same as different colored skin? In a 4 year old's mind -- I'm sure it was just matter of fact that yes, his friend has a black face. Have they been going over colors in school recently? You know, the sky is blue, trees are brown, grass is green? I would assume it would just be a matter of fact to the children...if you are looking at him, his skin IS black...doesn't mean a thing as a person but yes, the colors are different. Just like Johnny has brown hair and Suzy has red hair, etc...

 

[npmommie]

Yesterday as we were driving home from (pre)school, DS4 blurts out, "Maddie's dad's in jail and she's sad."

COMPLETELY caught me off guard.

There's not a whole lot I could say about the situation, but being that it's a VERY small preschool (only 7 kids in his class - 23 in his "grade"), there's no way the topic could have been avoided, evidently, as she just blurted it out in class. The teacher did the right thing by telling her that she was sorry that she was sad about it, and went on with the lesson, minimizing the situation the best she could.

I had practically the same response. I told him that I was sorry his friend was sad, and I asked him if he felt different about her. He said no, and I was greatly relieved. I think the biggest part of this conversation was that it closely followed him telling me that his friend Dom had a black face (that was my first heart attack of the day - I don't deal well with prejudice, makes me sooooo mad). I asked him why Dom's skin colored mattered and he said it didn't (phew!). God made him exactly the way he was supposed to be and he liked Dom - he's his best friend! (again, phew!)

My heart goes out to little Maddie. It's not her fault her daddy got in trouble, and she's a good kid. But what do I say to DS if/when the topic is brought up again (as I'm sure it will, kids that age don't have the filter of when/when not to say things). I want to positively encourage him to stay friendly to all his classmates. I do not want to see a divide in the classroom because 1 kid is "different" because of her parent's choices.

How can I stress to him that she is the same person she always has been? She's kind, and friendly, and plays well with all the kids.

I knew topics like this would come up in school... It just caught me off guard that it has happened so early.

Kids are not naturally prejudiced. Just as you saw with his best friend, they are seeing and learning a lot of things for the first time. Saying Dom has a "black face" is probably the only words he had to explain to you Dom is a different color than himself. Of course he doesn't think any different of Maddie unless he has been around a lot of people talking about how people who go to jail are losers who are a drain on society. At this age, they have to learn it from somewhere else - which is usually home.

Just sit back and relax and don't jump all over your kid - just wait things out to see what his perception of a situation is. His wording might be different than what you would use as an adult, but it does not mean that the adult ideas are behind his words.

*You* know that society would perceive those kids as different, but saying Dom has a black face is just describing his new friend. Of course Dom is different from him, and he is going to notice it and say something to you. Noticing the difference does not mean that your son perceives him AS different. Same with his friend Maddie.

You just tell him in words that he can understand that Maddie's dad did something to break the law and is in jail as punishment. Do *not* assume that he is then going to treat Maddie differently - you need to give your son more credit than that. He most likely just curious because he has probably never even heard of jail, much less someone he cares about having someone go there. Don't tell him not to treat her differently unless he starts to treat her differently, as it sounds like he is very unlikely to do so.

I think you handled it fine, and I agree with Agri, just wait it out and see what happens.

my ds described one of his friends once as the one with "brown skin"
I just think its meant in the same way he says red hair or blond hair or tan skin.

 

[auntie]

I don't think you need to. By bringing it up at all, you are putting in his head the possibility that she should be treated differently.

I agree. I think it probably bothers you more than it does to your child. They are simply reaching an age where they notice differences. The teacher handled it the right way. I would follow her lead.
Keep things simple, and don't beat them over the head with explanations. I always found it best when kids that age ask a question to give a direct, honest answer to the specific inquiry or comment,... and then leave it at that. There really is only so much a four year old is going to comprehend.

 

[allyphoe]

I don't think you need to. By bringing it up at all, you are putting in his head the possibility that she should be treated differently.

Another agreement for this.

When my DD was 5, she came home from kindergarten and said that the other kindergartner on our street was sad because her dad had just died in prison. We talked about things she could do to help her friend feel better, but it never really came up again.

 

[OceanAnnie]

I don't think you need to. By bringing it up at all, you are putting in his head the possibility that she should be treated differently.

I agree too.

---------------

My kids asked about rules for adults and we had a discussion about consequences for adults. Everyone has them. We talked about jail being like a big person's time out and depending on the rule (law) that was broken, it could be a very long time out (or life). We were just talking in generalities though.

 

[minkydog]

I think the biggest part of this conversation was that it closely followed him telling me that his friend Dom had a black face (that was my first heart attack of the day - I don't deal well with prejudice, makes me sooooo mad). I asked him why Dom's skin colored mattered and he said it didn't (phew!). God made him exactly the way he was supposed to be and he liked Dom - he's his best friend! (again, phew!)

Relax. You're not raising a little bigot. He's just noticing that different people look...different. My DS24 was friends with two brothers whose parents were Haitian. They were lovely boys and DS was really close to them. He called them his "chocolate brothers." I didn't freak out, just let it be what it was. To this day he has a few very close "chocolate brothers", one of whom became almost like a "chocolate son" to me.

 

[kwitcherkicken99]

Relax. You're not raising a little bigot. He's just noticing that different people look...different. My DS24 was friends with two brothers whose parents were Haitian. They were lovely boys and DS was really close to them. He called them his "chocolate brothers." I didn't freak out, just let it be what it was. To this day he has a few very close "chocolate brothers", one of whom became almost like a "chocolate son" to me.

See, that's one thing - a familial nickname - something to not fret over. I wouldn't think twice about it.

I think what really caught me was the fact that he is no stranger to people who are of a different ethnicity, it was just the first time he'd ever vocalized it. I'm not used to it and hopefully won't have to get used to it!

Like I said, I don't handle prejudice well - it makes me very angry and I do not tolerate it. Maybe I'm reading too much into it - it doesn't help that I've had to field a couple of pointed cultural questions from some students (at my high school) lately and this was just a topper to it all.

I'll sit back and see if anything else comes up. It's tough though. My dad's family had a history of affiliation with a certain group of people that are very hateful (my dad's grandfather). Even though my granddad was "particular" he was not a member, my father wasn't in the slightest way interested in their hate - the same with my mom. They believe in the quality of the person, and that's what got handed down to my brother and me. My brother has had a few instances where some have referred to him as seeing people as "clear" meaning (to them) that nothing but the person mattered - he wouldn't care if a person was turquoise. I guess with that upbringing is why I get confused about the whole race issue - I just don't see the points of the opposing sides.

 

[minkydog]

See, that's one thing - a familial nickname - something to not fret over. I wouldn't think twice about it.

I think what really caught me was the fact that he is no stranger to people who are of a different ethnicity, it was just the first time he'd ever vocalized it. I'm not used to it and hopefully won't have to get used to it!

Like I said, I don't handle prejudice well - it makes me very angry and I do not tolerate it. Maybe I'm reading too much into it - it doesn't help that I've had to field a couple of pointed cultural questions from some students (at my high school) lately and this was just a topper to it all.

I'll sit back and see if anything else comes up. It's tough though. My dad's family had a history of affiliation with a certain group of people that are very hateful (my dad's grandfather). Even though my granddad was "particular" he was not a member, my father wasn't in the slightest way interested in their hate - the same with my mom. They believe in the quality of the person, and that's what got handed down to my brother and me. My brother has had a few instances where some have referred to him as seeing people as "clear" meaning (to them) that nothing but the person mattered - he wouldn't care if a person was turquoise. I guess with that upbringing is why I get confused about the whole race issue - I just don't see the points of the opposing sides.

Okay, I think i see where you're coming from.But please, trust me on this. You 4 year old little boy was only identifying his friend, kinda like when people say, "YOu know, that girl with the red hair" or "THat boy in the wheelchair." I would only consider it predjudicial if the intent of the comment was to show that the other person was somehow "wrong" or "less than." Which I'm pretty sure your 4yo isn't even capable of.

It's okay for kids to identify their friends by their most prominent features, as long as it's not done to make jest or to hurt the other person. I was always "that freckle-faced girl", which might sound cute to some people. Believe me, hearing it for 21 years got kinda old. But I understood that it wasn't predjudicial, it was just a fact of my appearance, just like "skinny", "white", and "short" were descriptive words for me at that time.

Deep breath. Your son sounds like a good friend.

 

[beck0321]

Had to share a funny story that relates to this. It's one of those memories that just stuck with me to this day.
When I was in preschool I remember a girl telling me her dad was in jail. I asked her why and she said it was because he was painting a rainbow on the side of a building. In the town I grew up in, there was this paint store with a rainbow painted on the side (I think it was part of the logo). I thought for a while that was what that girl's dad was in jail for.
Now I realize he went to jail for vandalism obviously...

I didn't really look at her differently or anything (she wasn't my close friend or anything), I only knew here for about a year though...

 

[NotUrsula]

Preschool kids don't attach any kind of value judgement to skin color; they will point out the differences because they are being taught to point out differences and similarities in all kinds of things: it's set theory.

DD3 is constantly telling me what things "match" and what things don't, because they do that sort of exercise constantly in school with pictures and such: colors, animals, toys, etc. At first it startled me when I heard her categorizing people by skin color, but then I remembered that her brother had briefly gone through that phase, too.

Here's a funny related story: She and DS both bear a marked resemblance to me in terms of complexion; they are very pale. DH, otoh, has such a naturally ruddy complexion that random strangers often fear that he might be experiencing some medical problem. One day a month or so ago, after her bath, DD looked in the mirror and said, "Mommy, look, we match! W matches, too! <pause> Daddy doesn't match; he's not white like us."

(Just in case that somehow wasn't clear, DH is just as caucasian as I am. She was LITERALLY speaking of his skin color; she says he's bright pink.)

 

[Disney Doll]

OP, I thtink you're being a bit sensitive, probablyin light of the family involvement you describe. It sounds like your DS was making an observation, similar to : "Mary has blonde hair" or "Billy has green eyes". If your DS had said "Dom has brown eyes" would that have caught your attention quite so much? Probably not.

I'd consider the source and assume your DS is learning to observe differing details in the people around him. Not a bad thing really.