News Round Up 2017

[lockedoutlogic]

Don't forget:

"And I get to dress up and Indy one more time, right? I love that damn high-crowned, wide-brimmed, sable fedora."

You forgot "how much?" In the Indy conversation too...

Crashing planes ain't cheap

 

[lockedoutlogic]

That might be the first thing we agree about haha. I played with her when I was younger and her dad was one of my coaches in high school once upon a time.

I'm not much of a soccer fan...but she's my favorite.

 

[jknezek]

I'm well aware of the box office...don't read too much into the box office.

The Star Wars fanbase is unique...it's discerning and unforgiving in many ways when it comes to the story and legacy.

Disney may not be worried about the longterm fanbase that dumps the cash...but they should be.

Calling the Star Wars fanbase discerning and unforgiving is almost laughable. You've clearly forgotten "A Star Wars Holiday Special", "Star Wars: Droids", "Star Wars: Ewoks", "Caravan of Courage: An Ewok Adventure", "Ewoks: The Battle for Endor", and many, many more. The 80s and 90s weren't fallow for Star Wars content, they were fallow for good Star Wars content. The crap put out for almost 2 decades, before the crap of the prequels, in T.V. shows and movies alone, should have killed any "discerning and unforgiving" fanbase. It didn't. Because that is not what the fanbase is. It is rabid and forgiving to a fault.

And none of that even mentions the crappy video games, of which there are many, the crappy books, of which there are many, many more. There is absolutely nothing discerning about Star Wars fans. And the miles and miles of crappy plastic toys that followed the original action figures and ships only supports the point. They will pay for anything related to Star Wars, regardless of quality, and pay over and over as we have seen for 40 years.

Box office isn't important? You're right in a sense. Box office doesn't tell you if a movie is good or not, but it does tell you how many people will pay to see it, a pretty good indicator of the breadth of the fan base. And there are only a few as large, as healthy, as willing to spend money, as the Star Wars crowd.

Any other analysis flies in the face of reality.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

Calling the Star Wars fanbase discerning and unforgiving is almost laughable. You've clearly forgotten "A Star Wars Holiday Special", "Star Wars: Droids", "Star Wars: Ewoks", "Caravan of Courage: An Ewok Adventure", "Ewoks: The Battle for Endor", and many, many more. The 80s and 90s weren't fallow for Star Wars content, they were fallow for good Star Wars content. The crap put out for almost 2 decades, before the crap of the prequels, in T.V. shows and movies alone, should have killed any "discerning and unforgiving" fanbase. It didn't. Because that is not what the fanbase is. It is rabid and forgiving to a fault.

And none of that even mentions the crappy video games, of which there are many, the crappy books, of which there are many, many more. There is absolutely nothing discerning about Star Wars fans. And the miles and miles of crappy plastic toys that followed the original action figures and ships only supports the point. They will pay for anything related to Star Wars, regardless of quality, and pay over and over as we have seen for 40 years.

Box office isn't important? You're right in a sense. Box office doesn't tell you if a movie is good or not, but it does tell you how many people will pay to see it, a pretty good indicator of the breadth of the fan base. And there are only a few as large, as healthy, as willing to spend money, as the Star Wars crowd.

Any other analysis flies in the face of reality.

Star wars never left the main stream consciousness from 1983- 1995 in a pre internet world...

It's not a modern movie "franchise" like the fast and the furious.

It was instrumental in creating modern Hollywood.

You give Star Wars and it's fans too little credit...and 5 year olds who play with a toy for a week and teens buying a $22 imax ticket today too much.

But we will ultimately see...make bad Star Wars and see what happens.

 

[jknezek]

But we will ultimately see...make bad Star Wars and see what happens.

I hate to tell you this since you seem so set in your ways, but we already know. They made 3 bad prequels, although funnily enough more people went to 2 of those 3 bad movies than any other movie that year, and as soon as they made a decent sequel it busted out to almost $1B and was the highest grossing movie of its year by far. Then they followed it up with an offshoot movie and it was the top grossing movie of the next year.

You seem to think Star Wars fans are movie critics. They aren't. They are dreamers and escapists. They just want to be allowed back into their fantasy land again and again. And if even the crappy prequels created a whole new generation of fans, which they did, then it is pretty clear that the fantasyland isn't going to be killed off any time soon.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

I hate to tell you this since you seem so set in your ways, but we already know. They made 3 bad prequels, although funnily enough more people went to 2 of those 3 bad movies than any other movie that year, and as soon as they made a decent sequel it busted out to almost $1B and was the highest grossing movie of its year by far. Then they followed it up with an offshoot movie and it was the top grossing movie of the next year.

You seem to think Star Wars fans are movie critics. They aren't. They are dreamers and escapists. They just want to be allowed back into their fantasy land again and again. And if even the crappy prequels created a whole new generation of fans, which they did, then it is pretty clear that the fantasyland isn't going to be killed off any time soon.

Prior to the prequels...there was complete loyalty to Star Wars from its fans...

After? I'd say half - 3/4.

I hate to tell you...cause you seem to be set in your ways...but they don't have unlimited loyalty. Make good material and it won't matter...turn it into a transformers franchise, and it will fall off a cliff.

I'm very patient on these things...the truth shakes out.

 

[jknezek]

Prior to the prequels...there was complete loyalty to Star Wars from its fans...

After? I'd say half - 3/4.

I hate to tell you...cause you seem to be set in your ways...but they don't have unlimited loyalty. Make good material and it won't matter...turn it into a transformers franchise, and it will fall off a cliff.

I'm very patient on these things...the truth shakes out.

You have this weird, random I'm going to make up a metric thing going on. Common on the internet, but not real useful in any way. What really happened is those bad movies created a new generation of fans, somehow, and anyone lost was replaced. That's how the next movie made almost a billion dollars. Say it with me, almost a billion dollars. That's not some weird, made up metric that you somehow wish to believe in, that's what happened in the real world. And even more, the franchise, which apparently has lost 25% of it's luster, was bought out for over $3 billion dollars, and all that lost luster led to the world's most popular theme park operator dropping over $1B into what we all know is going to be a wildly successful new land. And of course 5 either already finished and wildly successful or announced movies.

What about any of these stats, which are things that actually happened, not some made up 25% loss of loyalty that you are propping up, has you feeling like this "discerning and unforgiving" fanbase is falling apart?

It's ok sometimes to say, "yeah, I got nothing..." I'm just letting you know in case you want to work with the facts here....

And yes, even Rome fell eventually. But it took almost 1000 years. I don't think Star Wars will last that long, but there is nothing, absolutely nothing, in the facts available today to support what you are putting out there.

 

[koala1966]

Calling the Star Wars fanbase discerning and unforgiving is almost laughable. You've clearly forgotten "A Star Wars Holiday Special", "Star Wars: Droids", "Star Wars: Ewoks", "Caravan of Courage: An Ewok Adventure", "Ewoks: The Battle for Endor", and many, many more. The 80s and 90s weren't fallow for Star Wars content, they were fallow for good Star Wars content. The crap put out for almost 2 decades, before the crap of the prequels, in T.V. shows and movies alone, should have killed any "discerning and unforgiving" fanbase. It didn't. Because that is not what the fanbase is. It is rabid and forgiving to a fault.

And none of that even mentions the crappy video games, of which there are many, the crappy books, of which there are many, many more. There is absolutely nothing discerning about Star Wars fans. And the miles and miles of crappy plastic toys that followed the original action figures and ships only supports the point. They will pay for anything related to Star Wars, regardless of quality, and pay over and over as we have seen for 40 years.

Box office isn't important? You're right in a sense. Box office doesn't tell you if a movie is good or not, but it does tell you how many people will pay to see it, a pretty good indicator of the breadth of the fan base. And there are only a few as large, as healthy, as willing to spend money, as the Star Wars crowd.

Any other analysis flies in the face of reality.

Hey hey hey, leave my ewoks out of this ;-)

 

[lockedoutlogic]

You have this weird, random I'm going to make up a metric thing going on. Common on the internet, but not real useful in any way. What really happened is those bad movies created a new generation of fans, somehow, and anyone lost was replaced. That's how the next movie made almost a billion dollars. Say it with me, almost a billion dollars. That's not some weird, made up metric that you somehow wish to believe in, that's what happened in the real world. And even more, the franchise, which apparently has lost 25% of it's luster, was bought out for over $3 billion dollars, and all that lost luster led to the world's most popular theme park operator dropping over $1B into what we all know is going to be a wildly successful new land. And of course 5 either already finished and wildly successful or announced movies.

What about any of these stats, which are things that actually happened, not some made up 25% loss of loyalty that you are propping up, has you feeling like this "discerning and unforgiving" fanbase is falling apart?

It's ok sometimes to say, "yeah, I got nothing..." I'm just letting you know in case you want to work with the facts here....

And yes, even Rome fell eventually. But it took almost 1000 years. I don't think Star Wars will last that long, but there is nothing, absolutely nothing, in the facts available today to support what you are putting out there.

Did I quote Reuters? I apologize if I didn't put enough of a "my hunch" label on it...

...this definitely is an opinion. Make no mistake.

I've got a decent success rate on the opinions.

You seem to be lining up with the bucket brigade a little more than normal here...I'm surprised.

"Make any Star Wars and it's good enough"? I'm sure that's what Disney wants but I doubt if you went to a comic con and polled the fans you'd get that kinda latitude.

Agree to disagree.

 

[jknezek]

Hey hey hey, leave my ewoks out of this ;-)

Oh, oh. It's Jeopardy right? Hmmm.... What are... Things I wish had been said to George Lucas?

That's correct for $1000 dollars. Choose your next category...

 

[jknezek]

"Make any Star Wars and it's good enough"? I'm sure that's what Disney wants but I doubt if you went to a comic con and polled the fans you'd get that kinda latitude.

Agree to disagree.

If we learned anything from the prequels, and all the garbage between Episode VI and Episode I, yes. That's exactly what happened.

 

[rteetz]

News

New Epcot Starbucks Tumblr

http://wdwnt.com/blog/2017/10/photos-new-epcot-starbucks-tumbler-celebrates-35-years-discovery/

 

[lockedoutlogic]

If we learned anything from the prequels, and all the garbage between Episode VI and Episode I, yes. That's exactly what happened.

Again...disagreement is ok.

Why do you think it's "stronger" after prequels? Just more saturated...not poised for longterm stability.

Don't see it that way. But ok.

 

[jknezek]

Again...disagreement is ok.

Why do you think it's "stronger" after prequels? Just more saturated...not poised for longterm stability.

Don't see it that way. But ok.

I think it's stronger because I see the next generation. My kids, their friends, my nephews who played with my toys until passing them to my kids, the line at our small local comicon during the "kids breakfast" for pics with Rey and BB8, the sheer number of those kids from 5 to 15 wearing Star Wars prequel costumes, the little ones lined up at Jedi Training... as long as there is a next generation that has been sucked in, there is long term stability.

And none of that is 2 strong movie boxes, the expected crowds for the new lands, the announced hotel... this isn't fans making a statement of love, this is bean counters doing the research to know it is there.

There is literally nothing that says the franchise is stumbling. And if it didn't stumble after the prequels the movies are going to have to really suck, consistently and for a long time, to do real damage.

So you can disagree and that's fine, but there just aren't any facts on your side I can find.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

I think it's stronger because I see the next generation. My kids, their friends, my nephews who played with my toys until passing them to my kids, the line at our small local comicon during the "kids breakfast" for pics with Rey and BB8, the sheer number of those kids from 5 to 15 wearing Star Wars prequel costumes, the little ones lined up at Jedi Training... as long as there is a next generation that has been sucked in, there is long term stability.

And none of that is 2 strong movie boxes, the expected crowds for the new lands, the announced hotel... this isn't fans making a statement of love, this is bean counters doing the research to know it is there.

There is literally nothing that says the franchise is stumbling. And if it didn't stumble after the prequels the movies are going to have to really suck, consistently and for a long time, to do real damage.

So you can disagree and that's fine, but there just aren't any facts on your side I can find.

Nobody said the franchise is "stumbling"...I think they have eroded a lot of the benefit of the doubt from diehards...That's all.

Any old crap isn't gonna cut it forever...just my opinion.

And your experience is just your experience...just like mine is mine.

And while I see my kids and their friends acknowledging Star Wars...not a lot of toys/shirts/etc around the schoolyard.

It's a "thing"...but it doesn't seem like it's as big of a deal as it could be.

 

[jade1]

That's how the next movie made almost a billion dollars. Say it with me, almost a billion dollars.

Actually over $2 Billion and over $1 Billion World Wide $3 Billion not $1.5 Billion..

And Rogue One was as amazing of an addition as I could have ever dreamt possible.

It actually has made A New Hope even better.

 

[jknezek]

And your experience is just your experience...just like mine is mine.

Well yes. But my experience is backed up by all those lovely numbers and facts that happened after the crappy prequels, showing exactly what happens when SW puts out bad movies. People still are immensely devoted to the franchise. Your experience is backed up by?

 

[OhioStateBuckeye]

So it's rumored that last Jedi tickets will go on sale sometime next Monday, maybe after the trailer airs during Monday night football.

I don't think I'll have as rough as time as I did for the force awakens when I was trying to book for the El cap theater.

I will be at WDW though so I'll want opening show at AMC Disney springs. Hope that won't be as hard a ticket to get.

 

[jknezek]

Actually over $2 Billion and over $1 Billion World Wide $3 Billion not $1.5 Billion..

And Rogue One was as amazing of an addition as I could have ever dreamt possible.

It actually has made A New Hope even better.

I think the numbers I quoted were domestic box offices. But yeah, a lot of money.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

Well yes. But my experience is backed up by all those lovely numbers and facts that happened after the crappy prequels, showing exactly what happens when SW puts out bad movies. People still are immensely devoted to the franchise. Your experience is backed up by?

You want me to prove an unknown? As in how Star Wars would be now if Lucas hadn't started a tire fire?

How would you like that phrased?

My opinion is Star Wars was damaged greatly - even if it still makes gobs - and that disney dare not make crap...to be honest.

That doesn't mean a chapter 11 filing is imminent.

I don't see the issue with that other than your kids Halloween costumes...it's ok...

I'll own it when I go too far. This isn't one of those times.