NEW VGF Building

[tidefan]

Didn't they effectively do just the reverse shortly after they added the THVs to SSR? They raised the point requirements for THVs and lowered the 2BR points. So, there is precedent.

Yes, and there has been some questioning on the legality of doing that over in the thread in the Member Services section. It didn't actually hurt the original owners (none of the original units went up in point cost), so I don't think that there was much of an outcry about it, but a number of the DIS folks that are smarter than I am about contracts do have some questions about whether DVD was acting in accordance with the SSR POS when they did that.

 

[DougEMG]

Correct, but then if my say 100 points are more of a percent of a unit than a new VGF2 purchaser whose 100 points owns less of their unit, is there not an issue?

According to what you are saying then, there is nothing holding DVD back from basically adding to whatever condo associations they already have, create a boatload of new points, then reallocate them across the resort.

(NOTE: This is a hypothetical)... What will happen if say DVD takes over the Inn side of the Boardwalk, converts them all to studios, adds them to the original condo association, and then charges 30 points a night for them. Well, after a year, they see people are trying to book the "cheaper" original Boardwalk views, so "in interest of the membership", they reallocate points by lowering the inflated BVW2 studios by increasing the point amounts of the BVW1 units? This is a slippery slope and we'll have to see how it plays out.

Currently nothing stopping them from doing this. If something like this was to happen, members would have to start seriously looking into if points are allowed to be switched across deeded units. I don't believe they are, but Disney feels they can be since they did this with the treehouses and studios at SSR after adding the treehouses to SSR.

 

[stwaldman]

https://www.hotwire.com/hotels/details/MzEzNTg4NzUxODQ6MzIxMTc1MTY2OTQzOQ--?vt.GHD20=1
Mid July -- Grand Floridian, 40% off, significantly better than the official Disney 25% discount. (I've seen discounts as big as 55% on Grand Floridian in the past).

Make sure you add the $400 of taxes to your price tag

 

[tidefan]

Currently nothing stopping them from doing this. If something like this was to happen, members would have to start seriously looking into if points are allowed to be switched across deeded units. I don't believe they are, but Disney feels they can be since they did this with the treehouses and studios at SSR after adding the treehouses to SSR.

Doug, this is the issue that I am referring to and why I think it would have been cleaner for DVD to just create a separate condo association for VGF2. That said, they "could" keep the point cost the same across units at VGF2 to be in-line with VGF1. If they do that, then at least as studios are concerned it would be a net wash. However, if they increase overall unit point totals (well, or decrease them, for that matter) then it will bring up some interesting debates...

 

[havoc315]

Make sure you add the $400 of taxes to your price tag

Correct... but that applies to booking direct through Disney as well.

 

[RoseGold]

$476 theme park view, that's really an amazing deal. I guess I can see why Jambo isn't open.

 

[Nabas]

$476 theme park view, that's really an amazing deal. I guess I can see why Jambo isn't open.

But we do have 4 more Deluxe Resorts opening (BC, WL, BW, and Poly).

But no more Moderate or Value on the radar.

 

[stwaldman]

The other quirk here is your posting is right before the 50th. Not sure its currently clear what rates will look like, say, next summer, when the 50th is in swing, but you don't have the holiday season bump (it's not really fair to compare summer and fall rates)

 

[KAT4DISNEY]

Correct, but then if my say 100 points are more of a percent of a unit than a new VGF2 purchaser whose 100 points owns less of their unit, is there not an issue?

According to what you are saying then, there is nothing holding DVD back from basically adding to whatever condo associations they already have, create a boatload of new points, then reallocate them across the resort.

(NOTE: This is a hypothetical)... What will happen if say DVD takes over the Inn side of the Boardwalk, converts them all to studios, adds them to the original condo association, and then charges 30 points a night for them. Well, after a year, they see people are trying to book the "cheaper" original Boardwalk views, so "in interest of the membership", they reallocate points by lowering the inflated BVW2 studios by increasing the point amounts of the BVW1 units? This is a slippery slope and we'll have to see how it plays out.

Sandi touched on it above but it isn't uncommon for declared units to be different sizes and percentages could be different right now for current owners of VGF who are represented by the same number of points like 100. A unit in a declaration might be made up of multiple rooms or an entire floor or it might be a single GV and other units might be a a couple of 2BR's. So in this regard it isn't messy for DVC to add more units to an association in the way that you mentioned concerning a percentage of ownership.

I understand what you are saying though about a concern where your ownership use power could be diluted if DVC declared the new units much higher and eventually reallocated points into the existing units. If they are different than existing but they stick to the letter what the POS says for reallocating then they won't and it won't necessarily be an issue other than if the demand for the higher point rooms isn't enough and it causes a scramble for the existing rooms at 11 months. If they then reallocated points out of the new building to the old your concern would have been fulfilled. We'll need to just wait and see what these resort studios are.

I've said more than once that I'd like to be seeing at least a handful of 1BR's and 2BR's - not a bunch but a few however if they have connecting studios that might offset that need a bit. And if these units are a unique setup (like with a King!) I'm looking forward to them. I doubt that's what they'll have but gotta hope.

 

[tidefan]

Sandi touched on it above but it isn't uncommon for declared units to be different sizes and percentages could be different right now for current owners of VGF who are represented by the same number of points like 100. A unit in a declaration might be made up of multiple rooms or an entire floor or it might be a single GV and other units might be a a couple of 2BR's. So in this regard it isn't messy for DVC to add more units to an association in the way that you mentioned concerning a percentage of ownership.

I understand what you are saying though about a concern where your ownership use power could be diluted if DVC declared the new units much higher and eventually reallocated points into the existing units. If they are different than existing but they stick to the letter what the POS says for reallocating then they won't and it won't necessarily be an issue other than if the demand for the higher point rooms isn't enough and it causes a scramble for the existing rooms at 11 months. If they then reallocated points out of the new building to the old your concern would have been fulfilled. We'll need to just wait and see what these resort studios are.

I've said more than once that I'd like to be seeing at least a handful of 1BR's and 2BR's - not a bunch but a few however if they have connecting studios that might offset that need a bit. And if these units are a unique setup (like with a King!) I'm looking forward to them. I doubt that's what they'll have but gotta hope.

I guess what I am getting at is that if they reallocated points back to the existing units, then my percentage ownership of that unit WOULD change as it would encompass more points (i.e., that unit would now be "worth" more) and thus a higher percentage of the overall condo association.

 

[KAT4DISNEY]

I guess what I am getting at is that if they reallocated points back to the existing units, then my percentage ownership of that unit WOULD change as it would encompass more points (i.e., that unit would now be "worth" more) and thus a higher percentage of the overall condo association.

It's also just part of a points system too. To absolutely guarantee what you get never changes you have to own a fixed week. I think it's too early to be concerned. If done correctly the new rooms might be more popular and the current building is less popular. And if they layout is the same and they are standard and lakeview studios then it's just more of them and easier for those who book studios.

 

[tidefan]

It's also just part of a points system too. To absolutely guarantee what you get never changes you have to own a fixed week. I think it's too early to be concerned. If done correctly the new rooms might be more popular and the current building is less popular. And if they layout is the same and they are standard and lakeview studios then it's just more of them and easier for those who book studios.

True, and I honestly believe that is what is going to happen, otherwise, why not just create a new condo association ala BRV/CCV?

 

[M:SpilotISTC12]

f done correctly the new rooms might be more popular and the current building is less popular.

But could we see VGF1 studios be less expensive points wise? If so, VGF1 could be just as possible given less points and smaller amount. Or is there no shot of that happening?

 

[havoc315]

The other quirk here is your posting is right before the 50th. Not sure its currently clear what rates will look like, say, next summer, when the 50th is in swing, but you don't have the holiday season bump (it's not really fair to compare summer and fall rates)

But other deluxes aren't seeing such huge secret discounts.

Basically... Disney just let the Grand Floridian rack rate get out of control, to the point that it really hinders demand. They don't want to slash the rack rate -- As long as they can find some people willing to pay $750 per night for it, they want to collect that full rate, and then secretly offer bigger discounts as necessary to fill the hotel.

 

[Heather07438]

Vero has both Inn room and studio, Aulani has both Hotel room and studio. Both the Inn and Hotel categories are a few points lower than standard studio.

I could see VGF Bldg 9 adding 2 or 3 studio categories. ‘Resort’ room (similar to Hotel/Inn) for a couple points less than original standard studios, and a high point fancy pants Club Level category trying to compete with 4 Seasons. Would they also add a Lake view too?

Resort studios at lower points could alleviate competition for original owners booking their original categories. If CL is introduced they’d need to balance that bldg just right to not over supply the demand of CL.

 

[KAT4DISNEY]

But could we see VGF1 studios be less expensive points wise? If so, VGF1 could be just as possible given less points and smaller amount. Or is there no shot of that happening?

The larger size rooms in the building they are converting might mean they don't do a traditional studio layout so then the point requirements might be more. Or they might be less. If it is considered a deluxe standard or lakeview studio then it will just be the same as existing. Consider CCV that has the 5 or 6 so called alternate studio layouts. They are still the same point requirement as any studio.

 

[tidefan]

The larger size rooms in the building they are converting might mean they don't do a traditional studio layout so then the point requirements might be more. Or they might be less. If it is considered a deluxe standard or lakeview studio then it will just be the same as existing. Consider CCV that has the 5 or 6 so called alternate studio layouts. They are still the same point requirement as any studio.

Great point. I would venture to guess that the corner "1-Bedroom" style studios are much more coveted than the traditional layout, but, yep, they are in the same category...

 

[CarolynFH]

Great point. I would venture to guess that the corner "1-Bedroom" style studios are much more coveted than the traditional layout, but, yep, they are in the same category...

They are coveted, but there's no way to book them because they're not a separate booking category. And they have tubs, so to have any chance of getting one, you have to book the CCV studio with tub/shower, and you're much more likely to be assigned one of those studios on the ground floor than one of the coveted alternate studios.

 

[Sandisw]

Correct, but then if my say 100 points are more of a percent of a unit than a new VGF2 purchaser whose 100 points owns less of their unit, is there not an issue?

According to what you are saying then, there is nothing holding DVD back from basically adding to whatever condo associations they already have, create a boatload of new points, then reallocate them across the resort.

(NOTE: This is a hypothetical)... What will happen if say DVD takes over the Inn side of the Boardwalk, converts them all to studios, adds them to the original condo association, and then charges 30 points a night for them. Well, after a year, they see people are trying to book the "cheaper" original Boardwalk views, so "in interest of the membership", they reallocate points by lowering the inflated BVW2 studios by increasing the point amounts of the BVW1 units? This is a slippery slope and we'll have to see how it plays out.

Once the units are declared and points decided for sale, they can not add points to that unit for sale. However, the point charts reflect the total points to book the entire resort for an entire year.

The units do have to stay point neutral. The way it was explained to me was that if a unit 1A has 10,000 points, Unit 1A has to always have 10,000 points for the entire year. However, they can move those points around in terms of actual rooms because we are not deeded to a specific room. So, say that Unit 1A has 5 two bedrooms, and 5 studios. They can, theoretically, when adjusting points to account for demand, move points from the two bedrooms to the studios, as long as it still adds up to 10,000 points.

Again, being part of the same condo association seems to indicate that there will be one point chart for the entire resort, not two. In your hypothetical, you are treating them as different. I do not believe it works that way unless they do what they did for CCV and BRV. They could have made CCV more points per night as it is it's own association, but they chose to make the rooms the same as BRV.

 

[havoc315]

Not sure if this has been discussed...
Grand Floridian rooms are 440sf.
Grand Floridian Deluxe studios are 374sq.

Likely, these new studios will be significantly bigger than the "original" GF deluxe studios.

They will have to play with the point chart to make this work. Potentially, introduce new room categories -- hard to imagine that a 440sf studio would cost the same points as a 374sf studio.