New policy for reservations based on check IN date

[jdg345]

Wow! A couple of dozen disappointed DISboard members has already mushroomed into 40,000 resales over this new policy. Goodness gracious!

Did you even read my post? If any and every change to a reservation resulted in a cancellation and rebook, if there was a minimum LOS, if reservations more than 10 days were almost impossible to book. If a small contract were unable to be used due to LOS issues. Basically, if DVC became an inflexible timeshare like most others, how many members do you think would stay?

Put another way: Do you think the majority of DVC owners bought it because it's just like every other timeshare, or because it's different than every other timeshare?

 

[Dean]

Ah, but you're assuming I book Friday - Friday when all I want is Sunday - Friday, right? That's not what I'm suggesting. Instead, I'm suggesting I book the Friday before. Putting it another way, I want:

Dec 21 - Dec 25 (Sun - Thurs), 5 Nights.

I could book my arrival for Friday the 19th through the 26th. But I really want to make my chances good. So I could instead book the 14th through the 21st. But the 14th is a Sunday. So, I want to be absolutely sure I get what I want ... so I start booking on the 12th, the Friday before, to lock up the 12th through 19th. Then I call back Saturday to book the 20th and drop the 12th (13-20 net), and I keep doing this until I can get the 18th through the 25th. Then, on the 21st, I call one last time and drop the 18th, 19th, and 20th.

Are you still so sure this is going to result in *less* calls to MS?

Why should we assume reservations modifications wont be allowed without a cancel and rebook? Just because that's what other timeshares do? Again, I don't buy into that. DVC has to be careful as that is one of the key reasons many members own -- flexibility. If that goes away, so do many member points imo.

Perhaps I'm just being naive, but if DVC was like every other timeshare, I doubt they would have the same success. People would walk.

They haven't stopped commercial renters, why bother with a small subset of people who DBD? After all, the majority of folks love this change and think it will be better, right? It seems the system is only better if DVC puts other rules and regulations in place that would prevent people from locking up days before and during their reservation window. The new system makes it easier to impact others' bookings, not harder.

As I noted, I don't think they will allow ongoing DBD modification. And yes I'm sure in the long run this will result in less calls to MS. Actually the DBD bookings are the big items and the "commercial" renting a drop in the bucket. Every single booking one makes potentially impacts other members.

I have an honest question, do you have any knowledge of how any other timeshares really work realizing each system is dramatically different from the next?

 

[huey578]

I suppose to discourage 'walking', the penalty only need be applied when adding to a ressie immediately after subtracting from it. If willing to enter a 48 hour 'blackout', the penalty could be waived.

What is a "walking" reservation??

 

[Dean]

Put another way: Do you think the majority of DVC owners bought it because it's just like every other timeshare, or because it's different than every other timeshare?

Most bought because it's on Disney property and a significant portion would have bought if it was fixed week/fixed unit system as was the usual 20 or more years ago.

 

[jdg345]

That's just it, I don't see this as a significant change, I see it as a minor adjustment. DVD may care what others say but ultimately they only care about having paying members and selling what they have to sell, it doesn't matter who those members are or if they're the same to day as they were last year. In the long run I suspect this will help sales and not hurt them. I don't really care that much about ROFR or that much about the underlying sale price. What I do care about is having someone paying the dues on those contracts because you and I pay more if other members don't pay. Frankly, I couldn't see a single member selling due to this issue.

If small contracts purchased for the sole purpose of picking up key times become essentially useless, I can see them getting putting out on the block.

Is it a small subset? Likely.

Will DVC Care? Not Likely.

Will people figure out a way to still get what they want with the new system? Yup.

Will everyone be able to take advantage of it? Nope, as it will likely require a higher point bank.

Will DBD booking decrease? I don't think so, based on the reasons I've stated previous. If the whole purpose of this was to decrease those types of calls, they need to rethink things, imo.

 

[jarestel]

Did you even read my post? If any and every change to a reservation resulted in a cancellation and rebook, if there was a minimum LOS, if reservations more than 10 days were almost impossible to book. If a small contract were unable to be used due to LOS issues. Basically, if DVC became an inflexible timeshare like most others, how many members do you think would stay?

There are too many ifs in your thesis to make any kind of reasonable reply. As far as I can see, none of those things have happened and there's no reasonable expectation at this point in time to think that they will.

 

[jdg345]

As I noted, I don't think they will allow ongoing DBD modification. And yes I'm sure in the long run this will result in less calls to MS. Actually the DBD bookings are the big items and the "commercial" renting a drop in the bucket. Every single booking one makes potentially impacts other members.

We'll see how this plays out ... but I really don't see how they can stop DBD modification. They're my points, if I want to call and request today, then call back and request tomorrow, why can't I do that?

If they really want to cut back on call volume, implement an online booking system.

I have an honest question, do you have any knowledge of how any other timeshares really work realizing each system is dramatically different from the next?

Unfortunately, I don't have your experience. I've owned other timeshares, and I've requested information on quite a few others. I wasn't thrilled with the way they worked, so I never bought in. I will not argue that you do seem to know a great deal more about competing products and appear to have extensive experience with the same.

 

[jdg345]

Most bought because it's on Disney property and a significant portion would have bought if it was fixed week/fixed unit system as was the usual 20 or more years ago.

We should run a poll on this.

 

[Dean]

If small contracts purchased for the sole purpose of picking up key times become essentially useless, I can see them getting putting out on the block.

Larger contracts have always had some advantages and I don't see this minor change as having much effect. Certainly if you can't get enough points together for a 7 day reservation you are at a minor disadvantage, no more. From DVC's standpoint they'd love to not have smaller contracts due to accounting costs. They tolerate them now due to the increased total sales they create.

 

[jamstew]

I'm planning a trip from May 26 (Tuesday, the day after Memorial Day) - June 2 (Tuesday) of next year. My home resort is VWL. I want to book a dedicated 2BR for the week, but I want to pay cash for Saturday night. Based on the time of year, will I be better off to:

1) Go ahead and call Thursday (6/26) and see what they'll do about the cash night in the middle. If it's going to require multiple reservations, I'd have to call back to reserve the last two nights on 6/30 (or would it be 7/1 since there is no 6/31?). Since this will be my first reservation of any kind, it's doubly confusing to me.

2) Call on 6/30 to book the nights of 5/26-29 on points, the night of 5/30 cash, and the nights of 5/31-6/1 on points.

I guess what I'm concerned about is the risk of not getting my home resort if I wait the extra three days to call. I know it isn't a busy time, but being at VWL is important to us since it will be my grandchildrens' (ages 3, 4 & 5) first trip.

 

[jdg345]

There are too many ifs in your thesis to make any kind of reasonable reply. As far as I can see, none of those things have happened and there's no reasonable expectation at this point in time to think that they will.

Still, you countered that I thought 40,000 people would sell based on this one change. All I'm advising you of is that was not the context of my post. The context of the post was that if all that flexibility disappeared, you may see a large exodus of membership.

To be clear, I'm not at all suggesting that even 10,000 people would leave based on the new booking policy. It probably wouldn't even be 1,000 for that matter!

 

[bookwormde]

I think the biggest part of the problem is that the new system is based on the first day of the reservation. If you base it on the last day (or 7 days if 8 days or more) it takes away the advantage 1 week vacations have over shorter vacations and makes critical dates available to everyone at the same time.

I have come to the conclusion that technically the new system is not “repairable”

So what is the solution? Here is my suggestion if I was running DVC (assuming we are not going back to the old system). IT accomplished the following.

Reduces CM workload by allowing fewer chunks for building a reservation at the 11 and 7-month thresholds.

Gives everyone the same opportunity (phone dialing speed excluded) to book 1 special day.

Partially rebalances the booking advantages between short, weekly in multiweek vacations.

Limits multiple rentals of the same high demand resort/class rooms at the 11 and 7-month thresholds (serial renters cannot book 2 or 3 of a class during this preferred period).

It does not fix the wait list change, which I still have not figured out their logic. I will just waitlist the one day and make a nuisance of myself calling about the others each day (I do not think this will be less work than just entering them day by day).


Ok so they want to block things out in week chunks. Everyone pick this idea apart and tell me if it is better than the newly adopted system. When you first call you can book any group of nights in the next 7 days. If one (or more of your nights is not a available then you are automatically waitlisted for it.) You may not make any other reservation for this 7-day period and for this resort and room class for 7 days. This keeps people from doing day by day and multiple splitting stays to gain an advantage. You can make a reservation for the days 8-14 when they are within 7 days of all your requested reservation dates but the same rules apply. (So you will only book on the day that will finish out your reservation). For those over 14 days the process repeats.

My version of the program announcement.

NOT FROM DVC

Reservation Booking Enhancement

Thanks to a recent service enhancement, Members may now place a single phone call to request a full reservation of as many as seven-nights prior to the unrestricted window, members may make one reservation per resort/room class per based on 11 months before their check out date or the 7th day of a multiweek reservation for home resort reservations, and 7 months before their check out date or the 7th day of a multiweek reservation for other Disney Vacation Club Resorts.

One extension (up to 7 days) may be made for the 7 days following week last day of the above reservation so long as check out date or the 7th day of a this reservation extension, is 11 months before for home resort or 7 months before for other Disney Vacation Club. This process can be repeated for members reserving the full 7 days on the previous extension to allow for longer reservations.

Incomplete reservations may be booked, missing days will automatically be waitlisted. Waitlist for days with a check out date before the 11-month and 7 month windows respectively may only be cancelled by canceling the associated reservation, after the check out date passed the 11-month and 7 month windows respectively they may be cancelled or modified as per previous policy.

This enhancement includes no additional restrictions on reservations involving check out dates, which are less than the 11-month and 7 month windows respectively.

Members may continue to cancel and modify reservations as needed but may not rebook a cancelled date until the check out day for the cancelled day is within the 11 month and 7 month windows respectively.

NOT FROM DVC

Here are some examples.

All member trying for the same resort and room type, and is home resort.

Member A wants to book a 7 days starting on Friday June12th 2009. Calls on July 12th 2008. If available gets 6/12 check in 6/19 check out if not automatically waitlisted for missing days.

Member B wants to book a 5 days starting on Sunday June14th 2009. Calls on July 12th 2008. . If available gets 6/14 check in 6/19 check out if not automatically waitlisted for missing days. Member B may not book any other days for this week period 6/12-6/19 for this resort and room class for 7 days.

Member C wants to book a 1 days starting on Thursday June18th 2009 (It is his 10th wedding anniversary and promised his wife that he would get her this resort and room class (substitute any high demand holiday). Calls on July 12th 2008. . If available gets 6/14 check in 6/19 check out if not automatically waitlisted for missing day. Member C may not book any other days for this week period 6/12-6/19 for this resort and room class for 7 days.

Member D wants to book a 9 days starting on Friday June14th 2009. Calls on July 12th 2008. If available gets 6/12 check in 6/19 check out if not automatically waitlisted for missing days. Calls on July 14th 2008. If available gets 6/20 check in 6/21 check out if not automatically waitlisted for missing days. Member D may not book any other days for this week period 6/21-6/26 for this resort and room class. When complete the reservation is linked.

Member E wants to book a 14 days starting on Friday June14th 2009. Calls on July 12th 2008. If available gets 6/12 check in 6/19 check out if not automatically waitlisted for missing days. Calls on July 19th 2008. If available gets 6/20 check in 6/26 check out if not automatically waitlisted for missing days. Member E may not book any other days for this week period 6/21-6/26 for this resort and room class. When complete the reservation is linked.


Member F wants to book a 18 days starting on Friday June14th 2009. Calls on July 12th 2008. If available gets 6/12 check in 6/19 check out if not automatically waitlisted for missing days. Calls on July 19th 2008. If available gets 6/20 check in 6/26 check out if not automatically waitlisted for missing days. Calls on July 23th 2008. If available gets 6/27 check in 6/30 check out if not automatically waitlisted for missing days Member F may not book any other days for this week period 6/21-6/26 for this resort and room class. When complete the reservation is linked.


1st thing this does is to eliminate any value of booking and then canceling the front of the reservation.

Second it makes critical dates available to everyone on the same day (though it may effect the rest of your reservation).

Gaming the system:

First essentially everyone could split his or her 8-day or less reservation into 2 pieces (still less work for CMs than day by day). For 9-15 day reservation they could be split into 3 pieces and 15-22 days could be 4 pieces) basically everyone could “grab” a first chunk of there reservation and then wait to 7- from there last day to complete (or for long reservations the end of the next 7 day chunk)

1 and 2 days stays 2 could be day by day but could not be extended for 7 days. 3-8 day stays could be any combination of 2 chunks but the later chunk could not be extended for 7 days and so forth with longer reservations.

Every one would be free to create their chunks as they saw fit for competitive purposes, special day requirements, or any other needs as long as they follow the core rules.

You could cancel any part of your reservation at any time (but could not rebook during the 7 day time period unless you cancel the entire chunk.

bookwormde

 

[squirrlygirl]

Put another way: Do you think the majority of DVC owners bought it because it's just like every other timeshare, or because it's different than every other timeshare?

I would say neither. The majority bought because it was at Disney. I personally was not shopping for a timeshare; I was looking for affordable Disney accomodations that could fit a family of 6.

Not that you were asking me

 

[jdg345]

Larger contracts have always had some advantages and I don't see this minor change as having much effect. Certainly if you can't get enough points together for a 7 day reservation you are at a minor disadvantage, no more. From DVC's standpoint they'd love to not have smaller contracts due to accounting costs. They tolerate them now due to the increased total sales they create.

Oh, I agree here ... smaller contracts are more expensive per point to administer ... but most people with small contracts also own much larger ones to offset that cost, no? It's a very small small subset that owns only a small (< 70 pt) contract, wouldn't you say?

 

[jdg345]

I'm planning a trip from May 26 (Tuesday, the day after Memorial Day) - June 2 (Tuesday) of next year. My home resort is VWL. I want to book a dedicated 2BR for the week, but I want to pay cash for Saturday night. Based on the time of year, will I be better off to:

1) Go ahead and call Thursday (6/26) and see what they'll do about the cash night in the middle. If it's going to require multiple reservations, I'd have to call back to reserve the last two nights on 6/30 (or would it be 7/1 since there is no 6/31?). Since this will be my first reservation of any kind, it's doubly confusing to me.

2) Call on 6/30 to book the nights of 5/26-29 on points, the night of 5/30 cash, and the nights of 5/31-6/1 on points.

I guess what I'm concerned about is the risk of not getting my home resort if I wait the extra three days to call. I know it isn't a busy time, but being at VWL is important to us since it will be my grandchildrens' (ages 3, 4 & 5) first trip.

I don't know if they'd let you do this with a cash night. Do you have enough points to book the whole week? If so, I'd book the whole thing on points as early as possible, and then once the whole period is inside 11 months change the one night to cash. FWIW, I think you could book this at 11 months from departure and still be fine.

 

[jdg345]

I would say neither. The majority bought because it was at Disney. I personally was not shopping for a timeshare; I was looking for affordable Disney accomodations that could fit a family of 6.

Not that you were asking me

So if you had to pick a week and a room, you still would have bought DVC because it was at Disney? Aren't there quite a few other Timeshares right up the road?

 

[jarestel]

All I'm advising you of is that was not the context of my post. The context of the post was that if all that flexibility disappeared, you may see a large exodus of membership.

I would agree with Dean that the primary reason most people bought a DVC timeshare is because it's at WDW. Sure the "flexibility" is icing on the cake, but not a dealbreaker. Without WDW most of us aren't DVC owners today.

If WDW closed down (or relocated to China), I believe you would see a mass exodus of owners from the DVC system. But a few policy changes wouldn't make much overall difference to the membership as a whole.

 

[jdg345]

I would agree with Dean that the primary reason most people bought a DVC timeshare is because it's at WDW. Sure the "flexibility" is icing on the cake, but not a dealbreaker. Without WDW most of us aren't DVC owners today.

If WDW closed down (or relocated to China), I believe you would see a mass exodus of owners from the DVC system. But a few policy changes wouldn't make much overall difference to the membership as a whole.

There were and still are plenty of timeshares available in the area of WDW, no? Do you think DVC would lose business to those other timeshares if people thought they were more flexible?

I see plenty of people having an interest in the DVC system because of the flexibility, because you are buying points and not a specific room, or resort (necessarily), or week. If you want to go 5 times this year, you can, twice next, you can, not at all, that's fine too.

We'll just have to agree to disagree here.

 

[Dean]

We should run a poll on this.

It won't help, the only way to prove it one way or the other would have been to offer the other option. For a full week options it would have been cheaper and less fees. The only way to know for sure would have been to only have the full week option and not anything else.

 

[jarestel]

There were and still are plenty of timeshares available in the area of WDW, no? Do you think DVC would lose business to those other timeshares if people thought they were more flexible?

No I don't. People want to stay on Disney property when they vacation at WDW. A good many of these Orlando timeshares are MUCH less expensive than DVC as well. And still they come to DVC. So you can believe it's for the flexibility and I will continue to believe it's because of the theme parks and the need to stay "on-site".

You're right though, we can agree to disagree.
Have a pleasant evening!