New Disney Hotel??

[thiee]

Ok with all the talk of a major overhaul coming to dhs and a possible 3billion dollar budget approval for wdw. I wondered with hotel occupancy rates close to 90% if we may see disney building a new hotel in the next couple years. I remember jay russolo saying that those numbers show higher need for more rooms which has me thinking that popularity and crowds will only increase in the coming years. Maybe a response to universal building these past couple newer hotel. Opinions??

 

[umichigan10]

Unfortunately unless its DVC its probably doubtful. I think the 90% mark is debatable because I think I've seen the number of 75% tossed around other threads (I could be wrong however). Disney seems hesitant to add more rooms because it seems like they're pretty maxed out at the moment. Plus the building of things such as flamingo crossings is an indicator to that as well. Which is disappointing because I enjoy exploring the hotels as much as the next person

 

[OKW Lover]

I'd think that Disney would have plans for additional resort rooms. Not just DVC, but regular rooms. The ~90% number has been released by Disney in various earnings talks with rating agencies/investors so it is a valid number. It would be foolish to think that they haven't at least considered adding more hotel (non DVC) rooms.

 

[Reddog1134]

The problem i've heard with the 90% number is that the numbers are skewed. Rooms are taken out of inventory for various purposes and not used in the totals.

It's been reported that Wilderness Lodge numbers are particularly low, hence the addition of more DVC rooms.

 

[rteetz]

Ok with all the talk of a major overhaul coming to dhs and a possible 3billion dollar budget approval for wdw. I wondered with hotel occupancy rates close to 90% if we may see disney building a new hotel in the next couple years. I remember jay russolo saying that those numbers show higher need for more rooms which has me thinking that popularity and crowds will only increase in the coming years. Maybe a response to universal building these past couple newer hotel. Opinions??

Disney won't be building a new hotel with the 3 billion. They want to continue to saturate the DVC market.

 

[umichigan10]

I'd think that Disney would have plans for additional resort rooms. Not just DVC, but regular rooms. The ~90% number has been released by Disney in various earnings talks with rating agencies/investors so it is a valid number. It would be foolish to think that they haven't at least considered adding more hotel (non DVC) rooms.

I don't doubt they haven't thought about it or have plans, but I don't think the viability of them doing so is quite there at the moment

 

[rteetz]

I don't doubt they haven't thought about it or have plans, but I don't think the viability of them doing so is quite there at the moment

Exactly. They have plans for the river country site hotel, Mediterranean hotel, Asian resort, and Persian resort. I'm sure there are even more that we don't know about.

 

[minnie mum]

I don't see them building another resort anytime soon. The last one was AoA, and I think part of the reason they built it was because of the derelict building shells left standing when they abandoned the Pop expansion. It seems they've been pouring their resort money into DVC, a sure cash cow. Meanwhile, they seem more than happy to sell of portions of the property ( or maybe they're on verrrrry long term land leases) to 3rd property businesses like the Bonnet Creek complex, the Waldorf, and the Four Seasons. Marriott et al gets a big chunk of the value market at Flamingo Crossings. I wouldn't mind seeing another mod resort go up, though.

 

[DDLand]

This is one place where I remain radical, I think Disney will build new hotels in the near future.

With around 90% occupancy rates for the Resort, they're going to start losing customers. In Jay Rasulo's own words "when you see occupancy in that kind of range, you are getting close to pretty much a full house and those were historically the numbers at which we started to think about expanded capacity."

This is fundamental to WDW's business model. They are not a theme park destination. They're a full vacation Resort Destination. You can sleep, shop, eat, swim, view entertainment, mini golf, golf, boat, bike, and go to theme parks all on property. There's no need to go anywhere else on a vacation because WDW does it all. You can book your multi day package that includes several days admission, the dining plan, and room nights. You take the free Disney shuttle from the airport to only your hotel. You take free transportation to only Disney properties. You use a proprietary wrist band to buy only Disney products at Disney points of sale. You use a proprietary photo buying website that only allows you to buy photos from Disney. You get hungry and go get food with your dining plan that works exclusively at Disney Restaurants. After dinner and some Fireworks you take the free bus back to your Resort and open the door with you wrist band. After a few days of this you have an idea. Why not try that new Harry Potter Ride? Oh wait, your free shuttle bus doesn't take you there. The dining plan you already bought doesn't work there. The multi day pass isn't compatible. Your wrist band doesn't work, and to make matters worse you have Fast Passes for Mine Train. Never mind, that idea never would've worked...

This entire plan hinges on buying a Disney package. A package with a basis that includes hotel nights. Without it the whole equation falls apart. Instead of being the glue that holds the entire vacation together, the Disney parks just become another option. Another theme park. Not to mention the millions in lost hotel revenue and profit.

This is a powerful tool in their disposal, and one that I think they should keep exploiting. However, it's more critical then ever. In the past guests could only choose Disney World because it was the only option as a Resort destination. Now that's changed. Now Universal is quickly becoming a powerhouse. They have to retain their lead.

Now it doesn't mean that there will be any new deluxe rooms, Disney seems to have ceded territory there. Moderate and Value? There's some great territory for expansion. Art of Animation is example of their willingness to expand in that market.

They're not throwing in the towel yet.

 

[thiee]

I agree, the reson there adding DVC is because one of the complaints about DVC is that there are booking capacity issues certain times of the year so to combat they add hoping people new would stay and buy in. But my overall point is 90% of people who stay on property aren't DVC members and probably never will be so building a mid value to moderate resort like AoA seems valuable. As crowds grow every year and with changes coming that growth number will more than likely double leading to more on property bookings. To me a Star Wars hotel would be perfect. With disney last fall buying 3,000 acres of wetlands to offset future expansion I think we very well could see one being built in the next 5-8 years. Nothing would happen within next two years but growth levels between now and then will be through the roof.

 

[DDLand]

I agree, the reson there adding DVC is because one of the complaints about DVC is that there are booking capacity issues certain times of the year so to combat they add hoping people new would stay and buy in. But my overall point is 90% of people who stay on property aren't DVC members and probably never will be so building a mid value to moderate resort like AoA seems valuable. As crowds grow every year and with changes coming that growth number will more than likely double leading to more on property bookings. To me a Star Wars hotel would be perfect. With disney last fall buying 3,000 acres of wetlands to offset future expansion I think we very well could see one being built in the next 5-8 years. Nothing would happen within next two years but growth levels between now and then will be through the roof.

I'm in agreement here, I think they should be looking very hard at expansion of their hotels. Here's an example why. One of the biggest growth markets for Disney has been the international segment. If you're a Brazilian for example, it's much easier to just stay on property and book packages because you're in a foreign country. Trying to stay off property has got to be challenging if you don't know the language or are not extremely proficient in it. Making sure that segment remains a growth market requires hotel inventory.

Though my one question is does building new DVC inventory help the strain on availability? For every new room you add, you also add several new member families. They have to stay somewhere too. Especially as they bring on lower quality resorts, the members who bought into those want to stay at better ones. For example if you had two resorts villas 1 and villas 2, and 1 was obviously better than 2 the combined membership of both Resorts would always try to stay at 1. So you now have twice the amount of people seeking after the same amount of rooms. That only makes it worse.

Saratoga Springs ruined DVC... Though that doesn't bother me too much because my family are members there. lol

 

[OKW Lover]

I agree, the reson there adding DVC is because one of the complaints about DVC is that there are booking capacity issues certain times of the year so to combat they add hoping people new would stay and buy in.

Sorry, that doesn't compute. More members, or members with more points, doesn't affect the DVC capacity issue. It makes the pie bigger but correspondingly makes the audience bigger.

 

[Reddog1134]

Sorry, that doesn't compute. More members, or members with more points, doesn't affect the DVC capacity issue. It makes the pie bigger but correspondingly makes the audience bigger.

What is DOES do is potentially makes it harder to get the room you want. Epcot resort rooms are very popular during F&W. Each time another DVC member comes along, that's potentially one more person competing for those rooms at the 7 month mark.

 

[umichigan10]

I'll say this much I'm regards to my post earlier in the thread. Its highly doubtful we'll see another deluxe built because the capacity issues the current ones have (wilderness lodge, which is an incredible resort to visit BTW). Forseably, if there's any growth in their inventory it'll be in the value moderate range (I.e. Art of animation). That's where any capacity issues lie

 

[tjevans]

The problem i've heard with the 90% number is that the numbers are skewed. Rooms are taken out of inventory for various purposes and not used in the totals.

In fact, one of the ways it's skewed is by making pre-existing rooms into DVC properties.

 

[Jon84]

I would think a Moderate on River Country could happen.

Or,

Opposite WL

 

[minnie-apple-mouse]

Trying new DVC properties is awesome-keep em coming.

Plus it's nice to have kitchens and more rooms to share.

Oh and SSR might just become a bit more popular when D Springs opens-we plan to try our first stay there.

 

[OKW Lover]

In fact, one of the ways it's skewed is by making pre-existing rooms into DVC properties.

Not following this. If they are occupied DVC properties wouldn't they count as part of the 90%? Or why shouldn't they?

 

[tjkraz]

I'll say this much I'm regards to my post earlier in the thread. Its highly doubtful we'll see another deluxe built because the capacity issues the current ones have (wilderness lodge, which is an incredible resort to visit BTW). Forseably, if there's any growth in their inventory it'll be in the value moderate range (I.e. Art of animation). That's where any capacity issues lie

This. Exactly.

Disney's biggest hotel "problem" is that the pool of deluxe guests is dwindling due to a number of factors including:

- DVC sales (people who formerly stayed Deluxe buying into the timeshare)
- Comparative low cost of DVC rentals
- Competing properties like Four Seasons and Bonnet Creek which are essentially on-site
- And (naturally) the high cost of Deluxe stays

Many well-to-do guests would rather pay $300 for an Art of Animation suite rather than $400 for a Contemporary standard room.

 

[HopperFan]

Direct to OP question: I don't think Disney will be building any new "hotels" any time soon.

Why?
- AoA was the last to open and only because they had to do something to finish POP.
- POP and AKL were the only other two to be built this century.
- Disney is heavily invested in the DVC business.
- Since 2000, seven DVC have been built.
- Disney is starting construction of the newest DVC offering at WL.
- That is almost one every other year (at WDW) since 2000.
- DVC rooms are also available as traditional booking (aka more deluxe rooms).
- Disney has been selling off land for new hotels to be built.
- Disney sold to Four Seasons in 2008 for that hotel to be built.
- Disney sold the land at Flamingo Crossings for the two Marriotts to be built aka moderate/value need.
- Disney sold other land at Flamingo Crossings for a Walgreens and Hess.
- Disney is prepared/in process of selling more Flamingo Crossings land for 5 more hotels aka moderate/value need.
- Disney never has owned the Bonnet Creek property and has no control over it, original master plan shows 2 more hotels could be built.
- There is usually availability at the moderates and values if you are willing to book rack rate.
- When Disney stops Free Dining and other big discounts because they can fill rooms without deals, then maybe you will see additions.
- Many plans were floated years ago for new hotels but then DVC started and I don't think they'll look back.
- I think that most internationals actually stay off property because they do more than Disney and they look for more value since they stay longer.
- There has been some investment into Orlando lodging market by international companies and in turn are marketing to their home country. Expect that to increase as many can protect their money by investing it outside their own country. EX: Since Brazil mentioned above, the Avanti (the resort that just burned) is Brazilian owned.

I have stayed at all the moderate and values, I don't think there is a need for more and....
I would much rather Disney invest their money in to THE PARKS, where there is great need!