New CC card "fun" tactics.. Re: rewards..

[chyam]

I have paid my bills online since I could do this. Years now. Probably at least 6 or 7 years.

I don’t even get paper statements on two of my 3 with balances. I look at them online.

This is why, quite frankly, it baffles me when people say the mail got lost or something like that. I don’t personally know anyone who pays their bills by snail mail anymore. Maybe it’s a regional or generational thing? I’m in my mid 30’s and have paid my bills like this for literally as long as I can remember. And so has my mom who is in her 60’s…

I would not trust my bills being paid on time to the postal service and the mail room at these cc companies. I pay online and get an instant email confirming that I paid. I don’t even use my bank’s billpay service to pay, I pay right off the cc company web site. It’s free. It takes 20 seconds. It assures that my bills are paid at least a week before they are due.

I never said a person who misses one payment is a deadbeat. However, it makes NO SENSE to me that a person who pays on a bill every month would not be aware of when that bill is due to prepare to make a payment on that date. It’s generally the same date every month.

Are they a deadbeat? No.

Are they living beyond their means? Not necessarily (although if they can’t afford to make the payment until the day it’s due, they probably are).

But…Are they incredibly unorganized? Absolutely.

For as long as I can recall, I have kept not only a computer spreadsheet of all my due dates and balances and amounts owed, but I also write this basic info down on a plain old fashioned wall calendar I hang at my desk. (ie. 17th car payment due -$227, 30th Best Buy card due -20 ).

That sounds all fine and dandy, but some of us aren't quite as computer savvy as yourself....making spreadsheets and all, I also do not have the time to read every insert the cc decide to stuff into my bills, I also have had computer problems from time to time that does not allow me to access my accounts. I also have a job, a life and a house that gets in the way...so many people have been hurt by the cc companies....changing of due dates, affecting many people causing them to be late, when they had automatic payments already scheduled....balance chasing and I could go on and on. There are things that come up, and just because I was late one time should not mean I should be penalized. I have State Farm insurance and a State Farm Visa...I paid the insurance twice thinking I had made a payment to the visa acct. I think the cc companies are in the mess they are in because of the way they have treated people. Do most people live beyond their means, I don't really think so but the economy has caused alot of people to depend on the cc for some necessities. I cannot wait until I pay mine off in January and then kiss them all good bye. Charging 20% or more on a cc is akin to loan sharking!
But I am glad you are so responsible!

 

[C.Ann]

That sounds all fine and dandy, but some of us aren't quite as computer savvy as yourself....making spreadsheets and all, I also do not have the time to read every insert the cc decide to stuff into my bills, I also have had computer problems from time to time that does not allow me to access my accounts. I also have a job, a life and a house that gets in the way...so many people have been hurt by the cc companies....changing of due dates, affecting many people causing them to be late, when they had automatic payments already scheduled....balance chasing and I could go on and on. There are things that come up, and just because I was late one time should not mean I should be penalized. I have State Farm insurance and a State Farm Visa...I paid the insurance twice thinking I had made a payment to the visa acct. I think the cc companies are in the mess they are in because of the way they have treated people. Do most people live beyond their means, I don't really think so but the economy has caused alot of people to depend on the cc for some necessities. I cannot wait until I pay mine off in January and then kiss them all good bye. Charging 20% or more on a cc is akin to loan sharking!
But I am glad you are so responsible!

The part of your response I bolded has happened to some of the most responsible people I know.. Although they regularly check their accounts online, they don't have time to do it multiples times within each 24 hour period every single day of the month..

The CC companies are very angry over the new rules that are being imposed on them and this is only the "tip" of what they are going to do to grab whatever additional fees they can get from their customers.. If this doesn't generate enought money, the next step will probably be to eliminate rewards programs totally - because they're not "cost effective".. They are in business to make money - not give away freebies..

 

[GoldieSaysMeep]

That sounds all fine and dandy, but some of us aren't quite as computer savvy as yourself....making spreadsheets and all, I also do not have the time to read every insert the cc decide to stuff into my bills, I also have had computer problems from time to time that does not allow me to access my accounts. I also have a job, a life and a house that gets in the way...so many people have been hurt by the cc companies....changing of due dates, affecting many people causing them to be late, when they had automatic payments already scheduled....balance chasing and I could go on and on. There are things that come up, and just because I was late one time should not mean I should be penalized. I have State Farm insurance and a State Farm Visa...I paid the insurance twice thinking I had made a payment to the visa acct. I think the cc companies are in the mess they are in because of the way they have treated people. Do most people live beyond their means, I don't really think so but the economy has caused alot of people to depend on the cc for some necessities. I cannot wait until I pay mine off in January and then kiss them all good bye. Charging 20% or more on a cc is akin to loan sharking!
But I am glad you are so responsible!

Using a wall calendar does not require a person to be computer savvy. Personally, I think anyone who is capable of posting on an internet message board should be able to figure out how to use Excel or, at the very least, Word also.

I have a life too. I work 16 hour days, come home, do housework, run my ebay store and deal with a chronic illness. I still make time to read notices from my cc company because I realize it could impact my financial future.

I have not heard of anyone's due dates being changed. This must be new. Generally it's a billing cycle. Or the same day every month. Which banks are doing this?

Mistakes like paying the cc instead of the insurance are exactly why it is vital that people, even busy people, take 10 minutes out of their day and read their bill.

 

[C.Ann]

I have not heard of anyone's due dates being changed. This must be new. Generally it's a billing cycle. Or the same day every month. Which banks are doing this?

There have been many, many threads and posts about this on the BB for months and months - going all the way back to last January.. I don't know how you would search for them, but they're here..

 

[GoldieSaysMeep]

search doesn't work for me for some reason.

Does anyone know which banks?

 

[C.Ann]

search doesn't work for me for some reason.

Does anyone know which banks?

Don't hold me to it, but I "think" Chase may have been one of them.. Can't say for sure though..

 

[eliza61]

The CC companies are very angry over the new rules that are being imposed on them and this is only the "tip" of what they are going to do to grab whatever additional fees they can get from their customers.. If this doesn't generate enought money, the next step will probably be to eliminate rewards programs totally - because they're not "cost effective".. They are in business to make money - not give away freebies..

IMO, this is the bottom line.
for many years the banks and cc companies have been allowed to practice unregulated. No matter what side of the issue you land on, the bottom line is new regulations have been passed and they are no longer going to practice business as usual.
Whether it is the consumers fault for not being "business savy" or "living beyond their means" or the banks fault for practice stupid business models (why would you give an unemployed teenager a 5K credit line?) they are not going to make the profits they once did.

Soooo, my suggestion (besides trying to get out of debt, really, really fast)
1) Switch every thing to your local credit union. Personally, since I think Chase, BOA and the rest are 1 step up from loan sharks this was the first thing I did. Many credit unions are member owned and give a lot better rates than commercial banks.
2) Continue to email or call your representatives offices if these practices upset you. I volunteered at my state reps office and believe me they keep track of how many complaints they get.
3) Read your statements like a hawk. They will continue to find any and every opening to get more money.

 

[MrsPete]

Another thing I discovered is that my bank will "clear" electronic payments even if the check isn't cashed. Had that issue with my dentist, who sent me an overdue bill. Called them with "I showed this paid and cleared two months ago." Called the bank and - well, they took the money out of my account, but the dentist had never cashed the check - the money was in "holding."

Did it again with the orthodontist. This time I had overpaid by one month too many and they sent the uncashed check back to me - but even though the check had never been cashed, it had "cleared" my bank.

The ONLY problems I've had with online bill paying have been with medical things! They need to get their act together.

That sounds all fine and dandy, but some of us aren't quite as computer savvy as yourself....making spreadsheets and all,

Give online bill pay a chance! You don't have to be computer savvy -- not in the least! If you can navigate this board, you can use online bill pay.

The first time you pay a certain bill, it takes a little bit of time to enter the account number, etc. But after that's done, the bill can be paid again and again month after month in a matter of seconds. Once you've set up your list of bills, they "stay there" in a nice, neat line. You get a power bill in the mail, and you log onto the computer. You type in the amount you need to pay, and you click the calendar to say what day you want to pay. THAT'S IT. YOU'RE DONE. Throw the bill away. With one click you can see what you paid/when you paid that particular bill over the last six months.

It's honestly easier than paying by snail mail, and you don't have to use a stamp.

 

[arminnie]

Most banks (and believe me I've dealt with most of them) will now allow your bill payment to be scheduled automatically either for the minimum balance, the statement balance or a specified amount.

That's the best way. It is now in their hands to make the payment on time. It also gives you an extra day or so of float. You don't have to worry whether a snail mail payment or an electronic payment was received. You received a confirmation from the bank that they will request payment on the statement date (or other as specified by you).

I have resorted to quoting myself!!

Nobody else seems to be doing this (paying automatically) so I wanted to stress it again. It is SO easy. If you can look up your account balance you can also very easily set up an automatic payment. If you are still having problems doing this then call the help line - the online help is usually a different number than regular customer service.

You will NEVER have to worry about making a payment once you set this up. Now you do have to make sure you have money in your checking account - but that's another whole topic.

 

[dclfun]

I have paid my bills online since I could do this. Years now. Probably at least 6 or 7 years.

I don’t even get paper statements on two of my 3 with balances. I look at them online.

This is why, quite frankly, it baffles me when people say the mail got lost or something like that. I don’t personally know anyone who pays their bills by snail mail anymore. Maybe it’s a regional or generational thing? I’m in my mid 30’s and have paid my bills like this for literally as long as I can remember. And so has my mom who is in her 60’s…

I would not trust my bills being paid on time to the postal service and the mail room at these cc companies. I pay online and get an instant email confirming that I paid. I don’t even use my bank’s billpay service to pay, I pay right off the cc company web site. It’s free. It takes 20 seconds. It assures that my bills are paid at least a week before they are due.

I never said a person who misses one payment is a deadbeat. However, it makes NO SENSE to me that a person who pays on a bill every month would not be aware of when that bill is due to prepare to make a payment on that date. It’s generally the same date every month.

Are they a deadbeat? No.

Are they living beyond their means? Not necessarily (although if they can’t afford to make the payment until the day it’s due, they probably are).

But…Are they incredibly unorganized? Absolutely.

For as long as I can recall, I have kept not only a computer spreadsheet of all my due dates and balances and amounts owed, but I also write this basic info down on a plain old fashioned wall calendar I hang at my desk. (ie. 17th car payment due -$227, 30th Best Buy card due -20 ).

I've had my CC company, Wells Fargo, change the due date for my payment several times over the years. This is why I'm not on auto-pay and when I explained that to a CS rep she laughed and agreed then that I'd not get caught with late fees. This is one of the tactics used commonly by CC companies to increase profits.---Kathy

 

[MrsPete]

I've had my CC company, Wells Fargo, change the due date for my payment several times over the years. This is why I'm not on auto-pay and when I explained that to a CS rep she laughed and agreed then that I'd not get caught with late fees. This is one of the tactics used commonly by CC companies to increase profits.---Kathy

And lately they seem to be giving me WEEKEND due dates. I'm sure that's not accidental.

 

[boufa]

A few points ...
1) ** Snip **

2) The new credit card laws do NOT simply fix everything you don't like about credit cards. Be careful listening to people, many of them are making it seem like if you don't like something, it likely will be illegal in 2010... not true in most cases.

3) They CAN and in most cases WILL charge late fee's. The change is that they cannot change your INTEREST rate to the penalty rate until you are 60 days late (it was intended to be 2 billing cycles, but if you read point #1, in chases' case 2 billing cycles are 70 days! and you will be moved to the higher rate after 1 billing cycle because of it)

4) the penalty interest rate has to go back to the previous rate after you have paid on time 6 months in a row.

5) ** snip **

6) ** snip **

7) Credit Cards, Banks (and most insurance companies) are all FOR PROFIT businesses. PLEASE, PLEASE stop being surprised when they try to make money. Do business with them with the understanding that they exist to return value to their shareholders... not for any other reason. If you don't like how they make their money, don't do business with them, or limit it. They should treat their customers fairly, which was the intent of the law changes (though in many cases they caused more problems than they solved). Most credit unions are non-profit.

Update: in researching post, I found out that many of the things I though I knew were wrong or unclear (thus the snips)

go to and check out the details of the changes. I found it very interesting. and it is spelled out in an easy to read way.

 

[eliza61]

A few points ...
1) ** Snip **

2) The new credit card laws do NOT simply fix everything you don't like about credit cards. Be careful listening to people, many of them are making it seem like if you don't like something, it likely will be illegal in 2010... not true in most cases.

3) They CAN and in most cases WILL charge late fee's. The change is that they cannot change your INTEREST rate to the penalty rate until you are 60 days late (it was intended to be 2 billing cycles, but if you read point #1, in chases' case 2 billing cycles are 70 days! and you will be moved to the higher rate after 1 billing cycle because of it)

4) the penalty interest rate has to go back to the previous rate after you have paid on time 6 months in a row.

5) ** snip **

6) ** snip **

7) Credit Cards, Banks (and most insurance companies) are all FOR PROFIT businesses. PLEASE, PLEASE stop being surprised when they try to make money. Do business with them with the understanding that they exist to return value to their shareholders... not for any other reason. If you don't like how they make their money, don't do business with them, or limit it. They should treat their customers fairly, which was the intent of the law changes (though in many cases they caused more problems than they solved). Most credit unions are non-profit.

Update: in researching post, I found out that many of the things I though I knew were wrong or unclear (thus the snips)

go to and check out the details of the changes. I found it very interesting. and it is spelled out in an easy to read way.

well said. I think though that the new regulations are a result of decades of the banks and credit card companies of not treating their customers with respect and I think that is the reason behind the fevor.

 

[boufa]

I agree. They have not had the best practices. They have gotten to the point of doing down right abusive. Not every industry needs regulation. I as a general rule think that congress does more harm than good.

Some of these new rules came from an industry that simply went too far. They will get their money, or change their business practices to adjust to the new realities.

The real issue is that in a lot of cases it went from some paying a lot adn some paying little, to most people paying the same. Thy are trying to do the same thing with bounced check fees. In the end it will likely lead to the end of free checking as many of us know it.