new blog: Guest Assistance Cards Vs. FastPass+: Let the Battle Begin

[KPeveler]

If they have to change it, perhaps they can make it more like Universal's version of the GAC. At Universal, the person's information is added to the computer system. The person is given a card with a barcode. The card has rows to write the name of the attraction, arrival time, current wait time, return time, and when each is validated. It has to be validated before getting another return time for another attraction. So there can only be one active return time at a time. Each time you are sent in queue, the barcode is scanned.

On the back, it has very clear instructions for the cardholder.

Basically the same thing is used for Knotts - I understand concept, and I do not mind waiting in an alternate location. What got me is that I was expected to ride each ride only once in a day. I do not mind waiting more than once, but I want to be able to wait for te ride as many times as I please. For example at RSR, with my GAC I get a return pass equal to the wait time, which means I Can wait in an area that is safe and appropriate for my disability. But as soon as my Return Pass time comes up, I ride the ride, and then often get another return pass.

I have waited the same amount of time as I would have in the general line (which is not an option for me for several reasons), but get to ride twice. I dont mind getting return times, but I do expect to not be locked out after riding the ride only once.

 

[lovethattink]

Basically the same thing is used for Knotts - I understand concept, and I do not mind waiting in an alternate location. What got me is that I was expected to ride each ride only once in a day. I do not mind waiting more than once, but I want to be able to wait for te ride as many times as I please. For example at RSR, with my GAC I get a return pass equal to the wait time, which means I Can wait in an area that is safe and appropriate for my disability. But as soon as my Return Pass time comes up, I ride the ride, and then often get another return pass.

I have waited the same amount of time as I would have in the general line (which is not an option for me for several reasons), but get to ride twice. I dont mind getting return times, but I do expect to not be locked out after riding the ride only once.

I'm not familiar with CA, I'm a FL girl. I don't understand being locked out after riding once?

At Universal, my son is limited to a few attractions that he can ride. He can sit in stationary seating for Minion Mayhem and Shrek. The last time we were there he rode Minion Mayhem twice. There was less than a 30 minute queue at Minion Mayhem so they sent him into a queue for stationary seating right away rather than mark a return time. (Whether they give a return time or not, as soon as we get sent to a queue someone scans his card.) Right after he rode, he wanted to go again. This time there was a 45 minute wait, so they marked it on the card. So 45 minutes later, we returned and he rode. (If he were to go to a different attraction before that 45 minute time, then he would have forfeited his chance to ride and he would have had to start the process all over again at Minion Mayhem.)

 

[15isto2]

Regardless of the merrits of the article the title was an exceptionally poor choice, I hope the author thinks long and hard before making any future posts

 

[TheTXTaylors5]

We are heading to Disneyland in December and I was planning on obtaining a GAC. I am saddened to hear how the locals are ruining and abusing the GAC program there. I'm all for the CMs asking for some form of documentation/note from a doctor to obtain a GAC. Due to ADA, the letter can't specifically tell the CM your ailment, but can tell what special accommodations you will need to enjoy your time at Walt Disney World resort or Disneyland resort.

 

[KPeveler]

We are heading to Disneyland in December and I was planning on obtaining a GAC. I am saddened to hear how the locals are ruining and abusing the GAC program there. I'm all for the CMs asking for some form of documentation/note from a doctor to obtain a GAC. Due to ADA, the letter can't specifically tell the CM your ailment, but can tell what special accommodations you will need to enjoy your time at Walt Disney World resort or Disneyland resort.

The problem is that no one can ask for proof of a disability in order to obtain equal access. And that is what a GAC is intended to provide - equal access. Also doctors who have not gone to Disney have no idea about what accommodations are available and what my needs might be.


I also just do not want a random person with no medical training to be reading my personal medical information.

I actually do not think GAC abuse is as rampant as the blog suggests and it has never impacted my ability to go to the parks and have a great time.

 

[SA mom]

We were at DL last summer. You do not receive a GAC if you have a wheelchair or scooter. It is implied you need assistance. You simply enter an alternate entrance if necessary. Sometimes we waited less time, sometimes more, usually about the same. The only time it really benefited us to use the wheelchair entrance was at Nemo. Even then, we still waited 45 minutes (versus 75).

However, if you read the DL boards, there are horrible stories of dissers witnessing GAC abuse. There are scooters everywhere. Some families rent a scooter and take turns riding/driving it. And, what if you have a party of 20? I think the GAC magicband is a great idea. I also think there should be some rule that the GAC/wheelchair person must actually ride the attraction.

 

[Sammie]

So very sad, some people will take advantage of any situation to promote their own agenda.

 

[SueM in MN]

We were at DL last summer. You do not receive a GAC if you have a wheelchair or scooter. It is implied you need assistance. You simply enter an alternate entrance if necessary. Sometimes we waited less time, sometimes more, usually about the same. The only time it really benefited us to use the wheelchair entrance was at Nemo. Even then, we still waited 45 minutes (versus 75).

However, if you read the DL boards, there are horrible stories of dissers witnessing GAC abuse. There are scooters everywhere. Some families rent a scooter and take turns riding/driving it. And, what if you have a party of 20? I think the GAC magicband is a great idea. I also think there should be some rule that the GAC/wheelchair person must actually ride the attraction.

Guest with wheelchairs, ECV or other mobility devices at WDW don't need a GAC either.
The biggest difference between WDW and DL is that WDW has mostly accessible lines, so in most cases the 'handicapped line' is the regular line.

The rule is that the GAC is to provide assistance to the person with a disability, so they can experience the attraction. Every time we have used a GAC, we were asked which of our party it was issued to and whether she was riding. I have seen people turned away who were trying to use it without the person it was issued to.
In general, the GAC issued for a party of up to 6, including the person with a disability.

I can see the Magicbands being useful because they would connect the GAC to the person it was issued to better.

 

[WaltD4Me]

However, if you read the DL boards, there are horrible stories of dissers witnessing GAC abuse. There are scooters everywhere. Some families rent a scooter and take turns riding/driving it. And, what if you have a party of 20? I think the GAC magicband is a great idea. I also think there should be some rule that the GAC/wheelchair person must actually ride the attraction.

It always amazes me that people are so eager to tell their "horror" stories, but rarely if ever do you read a post from someone who can't wait to tell the story of the person with a disability that they saw having a wonderful time because of the access Disney allows them.

I do not deny there is abuse, I have no doubt there is SOME, but how anyone can tell with certainty who the abusers are is beyond me. The observe someone is a small frame of time and assume they know the whole story. I think it's sad. Move on and MYOB.

 

[*NikkiBell*]

It always amazes me that people are so eager to tell their "horror" stories, but rarely if ever do you read a post from someone who can't wait to tell the story of the person with a disability that they saw having a wonderful time because of the access Disney allows them.

I do not deny there is abuse, I have no doubt there is SOME, but how anyone can tell with certainty who the abusers are is beyond me. The observe someone is a small frame of time and assume they know the whole story. I think it's sad. Move on and MYOB.

This has been my point from the very beginning. We truly do not know who the abuses are out there and cast members nor park guests can 100% identify them. Anyone thinking they could is foolish in their thinking.

As far as a family renting a scooter or wheelchair and "sharing" it, how does one know that the person it is intended for can walk short distances from time to time? This could very well be the case. There are hundreds or reasons why someone would require assistance in the theme parks. Are there people who abuse it? I'm sure there are, but personally I will never take a cast member's or random guest's observations as gold until I've seen documented proof. And, in all reality, is this something that truly affects our own vacations? If it does, part of me questions one's demeanor and sense of fun when in the parks.

 

[mytripsandraces]

It always amazes me that people are so eager to tell their "horror" stories, but rarely if ever do you read a post from someone who can't wait to tell the story of the person with a disability that they saw having a wonderful time because of the access Disney allows them.

I do not deny there is abuse, I have no doubt there is SOME, but how anyone can tell with certainty who the abusers are is beyond me. The observe someone is a small frame of time and assume they know the whole story. I think it's sad. Move on and MYOB.

I posted once about the experience we had with my dad using a GAC (positive experience, mostly, and my post was about it not being a front of the line pass) and was criticized for using a GAC, because, in the opinion of another poster(s?), my dad should have gotten a wheelchair, instead of using the GAC. It seems there's no good post about the GACs on these boards. On the plus side, we finally got my dad to get a wheelchair this trip. We're not commando visitors, so being slowed down didn't matter, but he is in so much pain when he walks, that he finally gave in. Our biggest problem was keeping his hands off the wheel. He nearly got his fingers broken at one point, because he'd stuck his hand between the spokes. We were so much more mobile this visit that I think he's going to get one every trip now. For the record, in the past, we've asked if he could wait somewhere out of the sun and join us when we got to the front of the line. We did get to ride Small World twice through without having to get out, because something happened and we ended up on the wrong dock at the end of the ride. It was our first experience of Small World Holiday, so we didn't mind at all! It's our favorite ride.

 

[Robbi]

The problem is that no one can ask for proof of a disability in order to obtain equal access. And that is what a GAC is intended to provide - equal access. Also doctors who have not gone to Disney have no idea about what accommodations are available and what my needs might be.


I also just do not want a random person with no medical training to be reading my personal medical information.

I actually do not think GAC abuse is as rampant as the blog suggests and it has never impacted my ability to go to the parks and have a great time.

The CMs cannot ask but can the guests offer a doctor's note? It would not have to name the illness, syndrome, etc. Maybe these notes would have to be requested ahead of time and Disney could send the people requesting an accommodation a sheet of stationary with a watermark. They would give the paper to their doctor. The doctor's note could simply say:

" I, Dr. so and so, feel that using an alternate entrance would benefit Jane/John Doe because of their condition.
Thank-you, very much for your consideration.
Sincerely, Dr. so and so".

It would cut down on abuse because doctors won't write this type of "order" willy nilly. Of course, you will have abusers.

 

[Justin Jett]

The CMs cannot ask but can the guests offer a doctor's note? It would not have to name the illness, syndrome, etc. Maybe these notes would have to be requested ahead of time and Disney could send the people requesting an accommodation a sheet of stationary with a watermark. They would give the paper to their doctor. The doctor's note could simply say:

" I, Dr. so and so, feel that using an alternate entrance would benefit Jane/John Doe because of their condition.
Thank-you, very much for your consideration.
Sincerely, Dr. so and so".

It would cut down on abuse because doctors won't write this type of "order" willy nilly. Of course, you will have abusers.

Section 35.138

Prevention of fraud in purchase of tickets for accessible seating. A public entity may not require proof of disability, including, for example, a doctor's note, before selling tickets for accessible seating.
(1) Single-event tickets. For the sale of single-event tickets, it is permissible to inquire whether the individual purchasing the tickets for accessible seating has a mobility disability or a disability that requires the use of the accessible features that are provided in accessible seating, or is purchasing the tickets for an individual who has a mobility disability or a disability that requires the use of the accessible features that are provided in the accessible seating.
(2) Series-of-events tickets. For series-of-events tickets, it is permissible to ask the individual purchasing the tickets for accessible seating to attest in writing that the accessible seating is for a person who has a mobility disability or a disability that requires the use of the accessible features that are provided in the accessible seating.
(3) Investigation of fraud. A public entity may investigate the potential misuse of accessible seating where there is good cause to believe that such seating has been purchased fraudulently.

 

[Robbi]

Section 35.138

I understand Disney cannot ask for proof. My point was what if the guest requests the ability to have a doctor write a note taking the ADA liability off Disney or the other public entity. I have seen CMs refuse people a GAC several times. It could be an unwritten rule that no note, no GAC.
Doctor's stationary has their license number as proof of legitimacy. If someone tried to copy that, legal issues-big ones- would then be brought against the fraud perpetrator.

 

[KPeveler]

I think perhaps the difference in our thinking is that the GAC is designed to help CMs see invisible disabilities (such as vision impairments), not to provide special access in any way. Those methods of equal access, such as the GAC, are protected by the ADA and a person cannot be made to "prove" they are disabled every time they turn around just to get equal access to something.

So how much money should a person expect to spend on getting a GAC? Can it be from any doctor, or would it have to be from the one treating the condition? At most of my (and any I have encountered) specialists and even my GP's office, they will not write a note or fill out a form without and addition fee. At one previous neurologist, it was $25 a page.

So now you have required a person with a disability, to pay for a doctors appointment and a paperwork fee, and this is usually a person with a fixed income. How much are you going to charge people without a disability? Or are we the only ones who get penalized financially for needing equal access to the park (I mean aside from the thousands spent out of pocket each year for durable medical equipment that insurance doesn't pay.

I get that right now you are thinking of how Disney could get around the civil liberties protections written into the ADA so as to avoid the fakers, but do you see how quickly this could snow ball into a "papers please" atmosphere. I could be required to show written proof before being allowed to sit in the accessible seats in the theatre. Or when I tried to access a bus (not Disney, I mean in my daily life) and required the ramp to be lowered. Or when I state I need the accessible check out lane in the super market (as the others are often too narrow for me and my chair)

Fiddling with the ADA has implications much broader than whether you think too many people with a GAC are in your fastpass line.

Also, if you mail the paper out what is to stop me from writing the letter myself? My doctor's office will not allow forms to be mailed to them frequently (if they are from non-medical sources, such as camps, waivers, Disney, etc)

And I could easily make up a license number for stationary, and no CM in Guest Relations would ever have a clue it was fake (especially if I made up my own and did not steal one). And even if they did know, I could turn around and sue THEM for requiring one against the law.

And what do people do who have a sudden injury or a flare up of illness while on vacation. Do these people have to go to a doctor? ER fees are quite high, and many insurances have no coverage for out of state visits except the ER. So when my mom pinched a nerve in her foot, again, we should have gone to the ER, lost a whole day in the parks, to get a special doctors note (would ERs have this special paper, or do they have their own letterhead) so they can access the parks equally to those people with two working feet? Instead, my mom just went and rented a wheelchair and spoke to Guest Relations about and ADRs we might have in an inaccessible location. It was a $10 fix that took no more than an hour, rather than costing us hundreds of dollars for a note.

And I tend not to pay attention to "unwritten rules" that make the lives of people with disabilities more difficult in violation of the ADA. I much prefer to pay attention to the actual laws which took decades to build and develop, and were written by experts.

You may have seen CMs refuse to give GACs before, but this generally happen either then the person with the disability is not physically present or when the person requesting the GAC cannot verbalize their needs and explain why the standard arrangement of the park (queues, stairs, etc) will not work for them. Often these people are requesting a GAC which will keep them from having to walk and stand as much, and there is no card in the world to make the parks smaller or distances shorter.

So, no, I'm sorry but I must reject your "unwritten rule." I do not like anything that violates my civil liberties in order to make life simpler for other people. I prefer the written laws of the ADA and their enforcement.

 

[KPeveler]

My point was what if the guest requests the ability to have a doctor write a note taking the ADA liability off Disney or the other public entity.

Ok, but what does what that other guest over there have to do with me. And the ADA liability, which I assume you mean is the responsibility to follow the ADA and adhere to its laws, no, a guest cannot request the CM or Disney stop following the ADA. And Disney will not do it - not only because it opens them to lawsuits and DOJ penalties. But because they want to be a good destination for guests with disabilities, which right now they are.

 

[Justin Jett]

I understand Disney cannot ask for proof. My point was what if the guest requests the ability to have a doctor write a note taking the ADA liability off Disney or the other public entity. I have seen CMs refuse people a GAC several times. It could be an unwritten rule that no note, no GAC.
Doctor's stationary has their license number as proof of legitimacy. If someone tried to copy that, legal issues-big ones- would then be brought against the fraud perpetrator.

A State-Issued Disability Parking Placard or other form ofstate-issued proof of disability would be acceptable, but Disney cannot request documentation from a doctor.

Many cast members will refuse to even look at a doctor's note for this reason.

 

[KPeveler]

A State-Issued Disability Parking Placard or other form ofstate-issued proof of disability would be acceptable, but Disney cannot request documentation from a doctor.

Many cast members will refuse to even look at a doctor's note for this reason.

But not everyone with a disability has a permanent one, and therefore many would not have a state-issued placard or state proof of disability. My placard is permanently attached to my car and would need to stay there in any case, and I do not have a state-issued proof I am disabled. And I travel to Disneyland weekly and have both a wheelchair and a GAC.

 

[jemmouse]

I have used a GAC in the past and have also used a ECV. First off let me comment here. My disability is invisible. I wanted to cry from all the comments I had heard from people under their breath when I was on the ECV. Also people do NOT move for these. Making it very frustrating because I didn't want to hurt anyone while I was on it. WIth that being said, I did stay on it and learned eventually to shrug off the negativity because I was there to enjoy the day with my DS and DH. No one but me can see the inside of my knees and feel the pain I have. But if they would like to drive with me 3 times a week for the physical therapy and doctor visits, welcome aboard.

In my honest opinion, i don't think one person wants to have a disability. Its not fun! I would much rather be waiting in long lines than to pop the meds I do, ice my knees, wear braces, and know of my upcoming surgeries and all the other fun I deal with. I am holding out for knee replacement because I am only 41. Ok I vented...

The part where you have to return at a specific time is not such an easy task for some including myself. If I am by Splash Mountain and need to be back at Space Mountain in 45 minutes depending on crowd levels not sure if that is possible....walking or riding an ECV. SOmetimes for me I need to walk so they don't stiffen up, but its the standing still in lines that are horrible. And some days its the opposite where I just need to rest them.

I always have a doctors note with me, and have it on the counter when I have asked for a GAC. I have the disability. Seeing me sitting you wouldn't know, but trust me if you are walking behind me, you will know .
It is a shame that there are people out there who abuse the system but lets face it that is life!

If to obtain a handicapped pass for parking in your own state you need a doctors note, I say Disney does the same. I know there are legal issues with that...

I just hope that Disney figures a way out to get the bad people so that the people who genuinely need it can obtain it. It has been a lifesaver for me!!!! I never NEVER would last standing in 2 lines in a row for 30 minutes. That would be the end of my day. ANd because I am a mom, I would miss out on enjoying my DS and seeing his happy face while at our happy place...

To all who are skeptical, I do understand. But be kind to others, disabilities range in varying degrees. SOme you see and some you don't...

Furthermore it would not bother me to show or let a CM what my ailment is. I don't see the CM's at the counter as people who would mock someone. I have learned to accept my disability, sure it angers me that i can't keep up, but what am i going to do. I loved my softball in high school, and in my leagues in my 20's, and loved sliding, and now at 41 i am paying the price!!! If only I knew then what I know now...

 

[Justin Jett]

But not everyone with a disability has a permanent one, and therefore many would not have a state-issued placard or state proof of disability. My placard is permanently attached to my car and would need to stay there in any case, and I do not have a state-issued proof I am disabled. And I travel to Disneyland weekly and have both a wheelchair and a GAC.

In the case of temporary disabilities......People may obtain a temporary disabled parking placards from their state DMV.

The ADA states

In lieu of a valid, State-issued disability parking placard or card, or State-issued proof of disability, a public entity shall accept as a credible assurance a verbal representation, not contradicted by observable fact