new blog: Guest Assistance Cards Vs. FastPass+: Let the Battle Begin

[LeahZ]

http://www.disunplugged.com/2013/01/16/guest-assistance-cards-vs-fastpass-let-the-battle-begin/

 

[WaltD4Me]

I had never heard that about the tour groups. What a shame people abuse something that is so beneficial to those who truly need it. I often wonder how some people sleep at night.

I know a few people who needed to use GAC cards when they went to Disney and they all said it would not have been possible for them to do the parks without them. I don't know what the answer ... Disney can't legally ask anyone what their disability is (and I don't think they should regardless of it being the law) so how do they stop the selfish fakers without taking anything away from those who need it?

 

[jcb]

While Disney always emphasizes that they are NOT a FastPass, many times their use leads you straight into the FastPass line or wheelchair entrance.
* * *
Guest Relations’ cast members were stationed outside the entrance of the attraction, giving people with a GAC a return time based on the current stand-by wait time.

There's a solution right here. Nothing in the ADA entitled individuals with a disability to preferential treatment. The obligation is to make reasonable modifications to policies. If Disney is treating GAC cards as fastpasses then the easy solution is to cease the practice.

One important distinction to remember, even if the ADA prohibits Disney from inquiring into the nature of a disability, it does not prohibit Disney from requiring some basis for making a specific policy modification (here GAC = fastpass) is necessary. It's kind of hard to imagine how anyone can modify a policy without being able to ask what kind of a modification is necessary in the first place. Frankly, assuming everyone with a GAC must be ushered to the front of the line is the kind of patronizing view of a disability that is inconsistent with the ADA.

The DOJ's ADA regulations have long permitted inquiries where the requested information is reasonable and limited to the need for the modification or aid requested. This could be a doctor's note, a handicap parking tag or something as simple as a request by the guest not contradicted by observed facts.

 

[WaltD4Me]

There's a solution right here. Nothing in the ADA entitled individuals with a disability to preferential treatment. The obligation is to make reasonable modifications to policies. If Disney is treating GAC cards as fastpasses then the easy solution is to cease the practice.

One important distinction to remember, even if the ADA prohibits Disney from inquiring into the nature of a disability, it does not prohibit Disney from requiring some basis for making a specific policy modification (here GAC = fastpass) is necessary. It's kind of hard to imagine how anyone can modify a policy without being able to ask what kind of a modification is necessary in the first place. Frankly, assuming everyone with a GAC must be ushered to the front of the line is the kind of patronizing view of a disability that is inconsistent with the ADA.

The DOJ's ADA regulations have long permitted inquiries where the requested information is reasonable and limited to the need for the modification or aid requested. This could be a doctor's note, a handicap parking tag or something as simple as a request by the guest not contradicted by observed facts.

Interesting...does this mean that Disney could ask for a doctor's note just saying that the person requires assistance, but doesn't specify their condition?

Although...while the blog talks about the growing abuse of GAC cards, I honestly cannot think of a time when I ever saw someone using a GAC where I thought to myself ... "Gee, sure doesn't look they need a GAC to me." Granted, I am probably way less likely to judge something like that, but so many posts make it sound like this is a constant, obvious thing that they observe it practically every time they see someone with a GAC. I have a hard time believing that is really the case. IMHO the percentage of abusers is very small, but the "group of 20 jumping to the head of line with one person who has a GAC" gets a lot more press than anyone talking about how great it is that the GAC is there for people who need it.

 

[jcb]

Interesting...does this mean that Disney could ask for a doctor's note just saying that the person requires assistance, but doesn't specify their condition?

You can't require a Doctor's note in every instance. You can require credible assurance that a policy modification is necessary.

 

[zulemara]

Thank you all for the focused discussion. This is the type of discussion I was hoping to have when I wrote the article.

You're all pretty much on the game. The solution is to do what they did at RSR, if needed.

However, I do think it is abused to the point of causing a problem. It was causing 1/3 less fastpasses to be distributed per day at RSR due to the number of GACs going through the line. When execs inquired about this, they learned of the abuse. Having said that, DL has a much larger local base who know and exploit the system. However, WDW has much higher attendance. I am willing to bet George K is going to take a look at this, having examined it himself at DCA.

As far as not noticing people, keep in mind what you see is only a snippet in time. I've had people tell me with a straight face they have never heard of the monorails being down. I, on the other hand, have seen literally a snake of people walking to the TTC on Christmas Day, July 4th, and a fire on the ground from parts falling out and starting a fire. Clearly, they are never down.

 

[jcb]

Tommy, it was a very enjoyable article to read.

 

[*NikkiBell*]

However, I do think it is abused to the point of causing a problem. It was causing 1/3 less fastpasses to be distributed per day at RSR due to the number of GACs going through the line.

Just out of curiosity, where did this percentage come from?

 

[zulemara]

Just out of curiosity, where did this percentage come from?

someone with direct knowledge of the situation. That's what caused the execs to take a look at things.

 

[jcb]

someone with direct knowledge of the situation. That's what caused the execs to take a look at things.

One gets the impression that Tommy would meet his source by placing a flowerpot with a red flag on the balcony of his apartment resulting in a meeting at the bottom level of an underground parking garage just over the Key Bridge in Rosslyn, Virginia.

 

[misstheworld]

I realize that every system, everywhere will be abused at some point. There are dishonest people in the world who think that everything is "owed" to them.

However, the reason this makes me sad is for the individuals who legitimately need the assistance and might not be able to receive it as easily one day. I have Multiple Sclerosis. I'm also a healthy 32 year old woman with no external signs of the disease. However, there are days when the disease gets the better of me and I need help with everyday life. If this were to happen at Disney, IMHO, I would have NO problem explaining to Guest Services the nature of my disability and wouldn't mind coming prepared with a doctor's note or some kind of proof. I would even go so far to say that, if done privately and respectfully, most people who have a disability and need assistance wouldn't mind providing that proof to keep the system in-place and easy to use. There's a form you fill out and request assistance ahead of time with dietary restrictions, why can't this be the same way?

 

[MrRomance]

The fact that fakers abuse the GAC and ruin it for people who are genuinely in need of it to make their visit possible is disgraceful. I am not from the US but my wife is but we're really knowledgeable about the ADA because although we have disabled kids, we live in the UK. While it may not be legal to ask for proof of disability, there may be some way to deter people who are not willing to "VOLUNTEER" evidence.

It shouldn't be a fast pass system anyway. My understanding when we considered it with our severely autistic daughter was that it just offers a quiet or less crowded place to wait. The solution could well be that they adopt an approach of if you have a GAC, you get to wait in another area for the current wait time. So lets say TOT, if the standby time is 30 minutes, a GAC holder can wait somewhere until the 30 minutes expires.

If a GAC is being treated as automatic FP to every ride it's no wonder people are abusing it.

 

[lovethattink]

The GAC card was never intended to be a fast pass. In fact, on the back of the card it reads:

"At attractions offering Disney's Fastpass service, Guests should obtain a Disney Fastpass return ticket."

The question I have, is when did cast members begin to allow this rule not to be followed?

 

[zulemara]

The GAC card was never intended to be a fast pass. In fact, on the back of the card it reads:

"At attractions offering Disney's Fastpass service, Guests should obtain a Disney Fastpass return ticket."

The question I have, is when did cast members begin to allow this rule not to be followed?

It depends on the stamp on the card and the attraction. Each attraction handles things their own way based on what the system is. For instance, I was with a friend who recently had been very very sick with a muscle disease caused by medicine she was put on as a result of a fall(long, yet entertaining story). Anyway, her disability was being unable to do really...anything for an extended period of time. She could walk as long as she did so swiftly and in bursts, thus eliminating the need for a wheelchair. Yet standing for long periods with slow movement was also an issue. So we got a GAC. They suggested a wheelchair, but as I said, a wheelchair and the challenges that go with it wasn't necessary for her condition. The GAC let us into the FP line at every attraction we went on at EPCOT that had one. Soarin sticks out in my head as I remember her truckin along in the FP lane, talking about how much up and down the queue has. Of course if the wait was short on a ride like SSE we just went in the main entrance.

It's not the CMs, it's the ride and how it gets handled because there are people who legitimately can't deal with the long queues for one reason or another. There are also those who are sensitive to lights, sound, etc. So it depends on the stamp on the card which determines what kind of accommodation you get.

At RSR, it was largely AP holders using the "I can't wait in line" disability to be let into the FP line. The solution then was to let them come back at a later time in accordance with the current stand-by wait time. I think this could be a solution which covers the wide range of disabilities while at the same time making sure the FP line doesn't get over-ridden with GACs

ok off I go, time to record the podcast

 

[summerw]

Soarin sticks out in my head as I remember her truckin along in the FP lane, talking about how much up and down the queue has.

Very interesting. We went with my mom last month who was on a scooter for various medical problems she has. She has a handicap placard as well. I remember our waiting in the regular line on Soarin. In fact, really the only place I remember being directed to the fastpass line was in Fantasyland at MK. The rest of the places, it almost seemed more trouble to have the scooter with us, ie it would have taken the same time with much less of a problem with parking and maneuvering. Obviously, part of the problem with the system is in the lack of consistency.

We go to Disneyland all the time. I would say the problem is very different there. Often the handicap accessible lines for Peter Pan and Small World are 15 parties deep. I can't say how much it's "abused," but I've definitely been party to incidents that made me think it was and upset me... teens calling people waiting in the regular line "suckas." In fact, I would say parent-less teens make up a good portion of the those using the GAC line at DL, IME.

It does seem like forcing GAC holders to use fastpasses where available (maybe accepting late returns) and providing a quiet waiting room with seating should cover most of the issues. I don't think the free for all it is at DL works. And I can't figure why a group of 15 would ever be eligible. It used to be 6 total in the party at DL; maybe it's changed, but that seemed very reasonable to me. It's not as if 15 people can all sit together on most rides anyway.

 

[doconeill]

I'll repost here what I said on the blog post:

I’m wondering if the infrastructure and features they are putting in place can’t offer a solution very similar to what that did at RSR.

Give the person a “GAC MagicBand”. They can scan that MagicBand at whatever replaces the FP kiosks. When that MagicBand is used, it tells them when to return, based on the current wait time. Then they have a very small window in which to return. Essentially giving them a virtual place in line. The catch? They CANNOT also use it at another attraction, either to enter a FP+ line or get another “virtual placeholder”. It locks them out until they “redeem” it at the FP+ line at the first attraction, or miss their window.

The original Fastpass was based on statistics as well…I’m not sure how much FP+ really changes that, unless they are pushing the envelope with how many “slots” they will allow at the attraction. But I can’t see them doing that without making existing problems worse and causing the standby line to completely stagnate.

As for the GAC - I got to experience this first hand in 2010, when the in-laws joined us. My DFiL has Parkinson's. He as trouble walking at times, and can never walk fast. So we rented an ECV for the duration, and on the first day we stopped at GR to get a GAC card...all it was stamped was "Guests can enter attractions through standard wheelchair entrance".

It probably only worked to our advantage a couple of times (he wasn't going to do many of the headliners anyways). I was actually shocked when we were directed to the exit at IASW (the wheelchair entrance), when I thought the point of swapping the entrance and exit around was to "mainstream" the entrance.

But at TSM, it was a very different experience. It LOOKED like it would be an advantage - we entered through the Fastpass line (we actually HAD Fastpasses, but were never asked for them - we were directed to the entrance as we approached), and then sent through the door at the merge point directly to the load area so we avoided the line going up and back and over the bridge and down to the load area. But there was a line of people at the accessible platform to be loaded...and they appeared to only load a couple vehicles once per complete ride cycle as there was a special car that had a wheelchair ramp and seat. If a wheelchair didn't need to be loaded, that car may have gone empty. So we actually waited what seemed a lot longer than if we could have just gotten in the Fastpass line, and I think it was pretty close to the advertised standby line time (this was early December, so lines weren't all that bad).

 

[SueM in MN]

The issue being talked about is at Disneyland, where things are much different than WDW.
Most WDW attractions are wheelchair accessible thru the Mainstream line. Most at Disneyland are not.
WDW also has more alternate waiting areas because they have more space to work with.

WDW has also been putting in place some things that may ultimately be helpful - like the beepers being used to 'reserve' a time for Dumbo.

I'll repost here what I said on the blog post:

I’m wondering if the infrastructure and features they are putting in place can’t offer a solution very similar to what that did at RSR.

Give the person a “GAC MagicBand”. They can scan that MagicBand at whatever replaces the FP kiosks. When that MagicBand is used, it tells them when to return, based on the current wait time. Then they have a very small window in which to return. Essentially giving them a virtual place in line. The catch? They CANNOT also use it at another attraction, either to enter a FP+ line or get another “virtual placeholder”. It locks them out until they “redeem” it at the FP+ line at the first attraction, or miss their window.

The original Fastpass was based on statistics as well…I’m not sure how much FP+ really changes that, unless they are pushing the envelope with how many “slots” they will allow at the attraction. But I can’t see them doing that without making existing problems worse and causing the standby line to completely stagnate.

As for the GAC - I got to experience this first hand in 2010, when the in-laws joined us. My DFiL has Parkinson's. He as trouble walking at times, and can never walk fast. So we rented an ECV for the duration, and on the first day we stopped at GR to get a GAC card...all it was stamped was "Guests can enter attractions through standard wheelchair entrance".

It probably only worked to our advantage a couple of times (he wasn't going to do many of the headliners anyways). I was actually shocked when we were directed to the exit at IASW (the wheelchair entrance), when I thought the point of swapping the entrance and exit around was to "mainstream" the entrance.

From what I understood from CMs, the intent WAS to make Small World a mainstream line, but the Fire Marshall would not approve it. If there were a fire on the regular boarding area, they could have walking guests exit by getting on a boat and walking straight thru the boat to exit.

If guests with wheelchairs were down there (where they used to wait to board before the renovation), they could not do that and could be trapped since they could only exit the same way they came in. (Or have to wait for the wheelchair accessible boat to come around an drive in one side and off the exit side).

The wait in that 'special line' is often longer than the 'regular line. One a recent trip, DH was in that line with DD who uses a wheelchair and can't walk.
I was doing something else and he texted me when they got into line. I arrived 25 minutes later and got into the 'regular' line, planning for DH and DD to get a snack while I finished waiting and rode. I waited in line about 20 minutes before I boarded a boat - they were loaded 3 boats ahead of me, so their wait was a little more than 25 minutes longer than mine was.

That happens fairly frequently when we split up.

But at TSM, it was a very different experience. It LOOKED like it would be an advantage - we entered through the Fastpass line (we actually HAD Fastpasses, but were never asked for them - we were directed to the entrance as we approached), and then sent through the door at the merge point directly to the load area so we avoided the line going up and back and over the bridge and down to the load area. But there was a line of people at the accessible platform to be loaded...and they appeared to only load a couple vehicles once per complete ride cycle as there was a special car that had a wheelchair ramp and seat. If a wheelchair didn't need to be loaded, that car may have gone empty. So we actually waited what seemed a lot longer than if we could have just gotten in the Fastpass line, and I think it was pretty close to the advertised standby line time (this was early December, so lines weren't all that bad).

because of the stairs in the main queue, anyone who can't handle stairs for any reason has to use that special entrance. This makes the wait there sometimes very long. Every time we have gone there and had some of our party use the 'regular line' and some go with DD in her wheelchair, the people in the regular line finished first.

In order to load at the accessible boarding area, they need to open a gate (like a train track switch) that switches a ride car off the regular track and into that boarding area. There is usually only one wheelchair accessible, convertible ride car running and that one is generally the only one pulled into that boarding area (according to CMs I have talked to who work that attraction). So, one ride car that seats 6 loads there for each ride cycle. (The regular ride car 'pod' has 2cars and seats 8. The wheelchair accessible one seats only 6 because of the built in ramp.
When the line in the accessible area gets really backed up, they so etimes allow guests with ECVs or wheelchairs to get into the Fastpass line or give them a handwritten Fastpass to come back later. This is to try to equalize the wait somewhat since they would have an extra wait in the accessible area.

They also do the same thing sometimes at attractions when the wait in the standby line is relatively short. The regular lines are often winding with lots of turnes. An ECV or wheelchair in that line actually slows things down for the other guests.
That happens quite often to us at Buzz Lightyear. We go to the regular line and are directed to go into the Fastpass line instead. Several times, we have had someone else with a wheelchair or ECV ahead of us, who was saying how 'nice it was to bypass the line.'
Only, they did not look at the standby line posted wait - we did and knew it was less than 10 minutes, so it would really not matter that much which line we got into, our wait would be pretty much the same. But, it would matter to the guests in the regular line who would be slowed down as we negotiated each corner.

Those kinds of things (plus shows, where guests with ECVs, wheelchairs or GACs might wait in a different part of the line) are responsible for a lot of cases where guests think they had an advantage with a GAC.
Observers see the people disappear from the line and assume they are getting right one. The people with wheelchairs, ECVs or GACs who are not aware of what is happening in the regular line also assume they got on faster.
I've seem lots of posts about 'Front of the Line' access for shows where people do not realize they are going to get into the same show as the people in the regular line.

 

[WaltD4Me]

Thank you Sue for the awesome post. It should be required reading not just for everyone on the boards, but for everyone who goes to WDW.

 

[boreas154]

Give the person a “GAC MagicBand”. They can scan that MagicBand at whatever replaces the FP kiosks. When that MagicBand is used, it tells them when to return, based on the current wait time. Then they have a very small window in which to return. Essentially giving them a virtual place in line. The catch? They CANNOT also use it at another attraction, either to enter a FP+ line or get another “virtual placeholder”. It locks them out until they “redeem” it at the FP+ line at the first attraction, or miss their window.

It's sad, in my opinion, that this would be the only fair way I can think of to implement it. If you give folks a specific time to come back to a ride without 'locking them out', the system will unfortunately be abused more. Basically they would just have access to unlimited FP's any time they want just by approaching a ride CM.

 

[lovethattink]

It's sad, in my opinion, that this would be the only fair way I can think of to implement it. If you give folks a specific time to come back to a ride without 'locking them out', the system will unfortunately be abused more. Basically they would just have access to unlimited FP's any time they want just by approaching a ride CM.

If they have to change it, perhaps they can make it more like Universal's version of the GAC. At Universal, the person's information is added to the computer system. The person is given a card with a barcode. The card has rows to write the name of the attraction, arrival time, current wait time, return time, and when each is validated. It has to be validated before getting another return time for another attraction. So there can only be one active return time at a time. Each time you are sent in queue, the barcode is scanned.

On the back, it has very clear instructions for the cardholder.