New AK ride/Western River = It ain't built yet!!

[DVC-Landbaron]

On the New AK Ride In The Works Testtrack mentioned the Western River Ride. KNWVIKING asked what it was. It is only the single most ambitious set of attractions ever conceived for a Disney park! And it is one of the main reasons I usually don’t play ‘what-if’ games on these boards. Also, it was my first BIG disappointment with Disney (in a long line of disappointments) concerning rumors and speculations about ‘things in the works’!!

It is why I said in the New AK Ride In The Works that “It ain’t built yet”. From the age of seventeen to about thirty nine I waited patiently for my Western River ride, never knowing it didn’t have a chance in hell of ever being built and in fact had been scrapped years before!!

Anyway KNWVIKING and anyone else interested, I started a new thread in the hopes of more people reading it. If I had provided a link in the old thread it would have been buried on page 7 or 8 and gone unnoticed by the masses. And I really feel this story needs to be heard by everyone who is a Disney fan. The concept was overwhelming!! And in my mind at least, there is no doubt that if Walt had been alive it would have been fully implemented and we would be enjoying it today!!

So, Try this link and then tell the crowd what you think!!

 

[KNWVIKING]

Sounded like it would be a park-within a- park. I bet it would cost 500-750 million to build it today. Where would they put it- I don't see how it could go into MK, not without eliminating something else.

 

[DVC-Landbaron]

I don't see how it could go into MK, not without eliminating something else.

Of course you are right. They blew it years ago for this concept. It shows that even back then the Walt philosophy was not understood by all.

The difference between then and now is that currently that ever elusive philosophy is understood by none in management!! Ergo my popular refrain: “It ain’t built yet!!”

 

[Testtrack321]

Ah, Western River, the mine train ride, the boat ride, the indian village...

*sigh*

Tis a great place. I even remember seeing some concept art on the internet. It would have looked like a huge mesa on the Rivers of America. Now that would have been cool.

 

[hopemax]

http://home.cfl.rr.com/omniluxe/wre.htm

The other site with Western River Stuff

 

[YoHo]

The only Excitment I can offer for this new ride is that Eisner announced it to the stockholders and while he may be firmly in control, that kind of announcment to those kind of people can not be taken lightly.

Still, all in all, all we need to do is wait for M:S to find out what to expect.
1: because M:S represents what managment currnetly views as the elusive E-Ticket and 2: Public response will have an effect on whether managment changes that view at all.

 

[DVC-Landbaron]

You are correct. It isn't built yet. Heck, it isn't even "officially" announced yet. But, c'mon, give yourself a break for once. Just smile and say, hmmm, that has potential. That looks grand.

I did. It lasted ten seconds. Maybe twelve. And then reality set in.

And, yeah, I know, "you've been burned before". And, yeah, you could be burned again. But, enjoy. Have fun thinking about it. Dreaming about it.

You really have to understand that this isn’t just an Ei$ner thing. They’ve got an almost perfect track record of disappointing me. So, after you’ve put up with it for over thirty-one years you can talk to me. Until then: Been there – Done that!! Don’t want to go back!!!

And to think, it all started with that River thing!!

At the very least, it might well get you excited for that 2005 trip you don't really want to go on but can't convince yourself not to...

Not at all!! In fact I’m going back in about two weeks!!

1: because M:S represents what management currently views as the elusive E-Ticket

I thought they already showed us what they think!! Remember that little blight they erected in Disneyland’s parking lot? I thought that was LOADED with E-Tickets!?!?!

 

[YoHo]

I thought that was LOADED with E-Tickets!?!?!

Well, I gotta admit, free Tortillias on your Birthday is pretty frickin Magical, but I don't know that it's an E-Ticket.

 

[DVC-Landbaron]

This paradox is why you are so maddening!!!!!

It’s working!!


But seriously folk…

psst...The tone-o-meter of this post definitely leans toward the joking side...

I know. But as my wife says when I slip her a none-too-subtle quip, “Many serious things are said in jest”. And JEST in case you were somewhat serious, at least with the paradox bit, let me explain.

I said that Disney has an almost perfect record of disappointing me. But as is your habit, or maybe mine for not being crystal clear, you’ve mixed up references and inferences. I was specifically talking about the ‘rumor-mill’. How what is ‘in-the-works’ ALWAYS turns out to be somewhat less in reality, IF it is built at all. And this is NOT a current problem (although when they miss today, they REALLY MISS)!! It has been going on since “Phase-2”. Anyone remember that? Yep! Phase-2, the Venetian, the Asian and the Persian. Along with groundbreaking for the ‘real’ EPCOT and that glorious River attraction(s). I’m probably mixing up the order, but I think you get the picture.

And it continued through EPCOT (I wanted the city!) and Space Mountain (the ride was supposed to go through the ceiling) and Japan (no Mt. Fugi) and no additional countries and no Space pavilion and… Well, that’s just EPCOT!!

I could go on and on.

The point is, sometimes (it used to be most of the time) but sometimes they still WOW me as no other company can do it!

So, you’re right. There are an awful lot of memories. And there’s quite a warm and fuzzy feeling that goes along with the same things that kept the Pirate and I from seeing eye to eye. Mainly watching the kids have a ball!! He could never quite differentiate between the kids (and himself) having fun and what was actually good for the company’s long term interest.

I can. And I do. Every chance I get. Except when I’m there. Then I become the Pirate and only have fun!!

Does that make sense?

 

[DisneyKidds]

Does that make sense?

It is actually all making perfect sense now. The Baron is the Pirate, is the Captain. WOW!! Talk about your multiple personality disorders .

What makes the Pirate (Captain, Baron, Horace, whomever.......) unable to differentiate himself (themselves?) from his (their?) kids and their having fun IS in the company's long term interest. Disney was/is/and always will be good at that, and it ain't an easy thing to accomplish . You should stop trying so hard to split the two - you are only hurting yourself . It's not too late to come back from the dark side. Walk toward the light.................

 

[DVC-Landbaron]

Boy! I thought you were ready to accept the realities of life, but alas!! Your training is still not complete, it seems.

kids and their having fun IS in the company's long term interest.

Even you should know, Mr. Kidds. It is not enough!!

 

[DisneyKidds]

It is not enough!!

How easily you shrug off "fun". Both the fun that kids and kids at heart have. In the end, fun is what it is all about. I hate to break it to you, but not for the fun nobody (including yourself) would ever go back. THAT is the reality in life my friend. Fun is a many splendored and very complex thing. Disney provides much more than the simple kind of fun that is recognized by our primal instinct to smile.

The "fun" at Disney must be unique, uniquely Disney, in order for it to be "enough". That it most certainly is - and even you can't deny that. Is everything done the way Walt would have done it? Probably not. Yes, my maturing as a Disney critic has led me to realize the flaw in some decisions, but you can't throw the baby out with that bath water as they say.

You know what? You have to..........

'Slow down, you move to fast. You've got to make the morning last, just kicking down the cobble stones (of Main Street) looking for fun and feelin' groovy.....................da da da da da da da..............feelin' groovy'

And if you can't do that there are...............'50 ways to leave your lover'.

 

[crusader]

Fun?

Where is the fun in continual torment. Very expensive therapy!

It is more along the lines of escape and to where - Paradise Lost?

Seriously though here-in lies the truth -

There are an awful lot of memories. And there’s quite a warm and fuzzy feeling that goes along with the same things that kept the Pirate and I from seeing eye to eye. Mainly watching the kids have a ball!! He could never quite differentiate between the kids (and himself) having fun and what was actually good for the company’s long term interest.

Memories - enough to last a lifetime. Strong enough to forgive the inadequacies; the upsets; the negative feelings. Convincing enough to repeatedly pull you back - not further away. Each time with a more favorable spin or justification - ie FUN!

That is successful marketing but can it continually sustain time. It works on most of the people here who have "roots" but what about the kids today - will they feel the same way you did and take their family down there with much the same anticipation? Are their memories so unfiltered that WDW will continually drive them as well?

 

[DisneyKidds]

will they feel the same way you did and take their family down there with much the same anticipation? Are their memories so unfiltered that WDW will continually drive them as well?

A good question.

Imagine if you will, another WDW guest who starts going to Disney on the very same day as let's say........................the Baron. Same mouse time, same mouse station. Same park. Same rides, at the same time. They even eat in the same exact places - at the same exact time. Their family is the same exact size, even the same exact ages. They stay at the same hotel. Their visit could not be more the same. You know what happens? Baron becomes enamoured with Disney and everything it is about. He becomes a lifer and "torments" himself to this very day. That other guest...................well he couldn't care less about the place. His family doesn't care for it. He and his family never go back. Their visit may have been the same, but obviously their experience must have been different. Why? I don't know. People are different and complex.

I submit that the same thing is happening today that started happening 50 years ago. You see, some people, I don't know why, love Disney. Others, I don't know why, hate Disney. It happened when the parks were serving Mickey Head Butter until midnight, and it is happening today. So my answer to your question is yes, for those as predisposed to love Disney as many of us around here are - they will still fall in love. The Magic is there. They don't "torment" themselves because a park isn't open until midnight, or they can't get on an observation deck they were never on. Yes, Disney is different now than it used to be, but it is no less Magical.

Yes, there is a middle ground. Those who neither love nor hate Disney. Perhaps Disney converted a higher percentage of these folks in the past and that is the danger in many of the questionable decisions made lately.

 

[DVC-Landbaron]

The "fun" at Disney must be unique, uniquely Disney, in order for it to be "enough". That it most certainly is - and even you can't deny that.

That travesty in AK is “uniquely Disney” fun? Those carnival games are “uniquely Disney” fun? DCA is “uniquely Disney” fun? Now, they may be fun. But “uniquely Disney” fun? I don’t think so!!

Perhaps Disney converted a higher percentage of these folks in the past and that is the danger in many of the questionable decisions made lately.

There is no perhaps about it!!

Yes, Disney is different now than it used to be, but it is no less Magical.

I simply disagree.

You are right. It is very different. Some good, some bad. But overall it has not remained static. It has indeed diminished.

 

[raidermatt]

Yes, Disney is different now than it used to be, but it is no less Magical.

This is what makes it difficult to reconcile your position sometimes, DK. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe you have said in the past that Disney is going through some tough times, some of it due to poor management decisions.

Have I mis-interpreted, or are you saying that poor management decisions have no impact on the "Magic"?

If its the latter, it becomes confusing. Disney "Magic" was the result of excellent decision-making, philosophy, policies, whatever. Therefore, doesn't it follow that poor choices will not create the same levels of "Magic"?

 

[DisneyKidds]

That travesty in AK is “uniquely Disney” fun? Those carnival games are “uniquely Disney” fun? DCA is “uniquely Disney” fun? Now, they may be fun. But “uniquely Disney” fun? I don’t think so!!

I prefer to take a 'big picture' appraoch. Sure, you can pick apart this or that, but the vacation experience provided at WDW is very much uniquely Disney, even if one or two recently added elements aren't so unique.

Have I mis-interpreted, or are you saying that poor management decisions have no impact on the "Magic"?

I wouldn't say no impact, but I wouldn't say they have had a significant negative impact. After 12 years we continue to find something new each and every trip. Some of it is stuff from the past we are just now discovering, some of it is new stuff. Yeah, there have been tough times. Yeah, there have been bad decisions. Yeah, it has some impact in some areas. However, in the big picture WDW is as magical as it was 12 years ago. I just don't spend all my time stewing over the fact that the MK isn't open until midnight to realize it .

 

[DVC-Landbaron]

I prefer to take a 'big picture' appraoch. Sure, you can pick apart this or that, but the vacation experience provided at WDW is very much uniquely Disney, even if one or two recently added elements aren't so unique.

You and I must be soul mates!! We think EXACTLY alike! I always take what you refer to as a ‘big picture’ approach when I’m on vacation! But here, in the light of the cold, hard day, I really want to discuss those recently added elements that “aren’t so unique”, and I actually do want to pick apart a little of this and even some of that. On an emotional level I can enjoy what remains of Disney! Thoroughly!! Undoubtedly!! And at the same time I can also intellectually discuss Disney philosophically and what I believe is in the best long term interest of the company. I really don’t know why that is so hard to understand!

After 12 years we continue to find something new each and every trip.

Sorry! That’s not even close to long enough to judge! Case in point:

Some of it is stuff from the past we are just now discovering

See!

However, in the big picture WDW is as magical as it was 12 years ago.

Just how big is your picture? While I contend that 12 years (already 6 years into current management) is not nearly long enough, even you’ve admitted that lately (I think since ’98 you said) things have been going to pot a lot quicker! How is it that you clearly saw it last week, but suddenly this week the ‘big picture’ evidently got a whole bunch bigger?

Or have you been in WDW recently? Hey!! Don’t feel bad! It happens to the best of us 3ers! I really can’t get fully into this site for at least a week after my return! Residual Pixie Dust! And don’t worry! It’s a legal defense!!

 

[DisneyKidds]

I really don’t know why that is so hard to understand!

It is not hard to understand what it is you are doing and why you do it. As I have said a thousand times, I know what you are saying. However, as the Raiders fan would say, sometimes it is difficult to reconcile your overall opinion and conclusions with some of your statements.

But here, in the light of the cold, hard day, I really want to discuss those recently added elements that “aren’t so unique”, and I actually do want to pick apart a little of this and even some of that. On an emotional level I can enjoy what remains of Disney! Thoroughly!! Undoubtedly!!

Here is the rub. 'Magic' is not something to be analyzed in the cold, hard, light of day. 'Magic' is an intangible. It is something you feel. Something you experience. It appears that it is something that is still there, full force, when you are on your vacation. That, my friend, speaks volumes. Yes, it is very easy to come back and pick, pick, pick. Dinsey has given us many things to do that with. However, as much as you pick at certain things it doesn't change the big picture. So yeah, we can discuss those not so unique recently added elements. That is a good thing to do. We can even agree about a lot of it. But in the end, the big picture is the big picture and Disney is still a Magical place.

Sorry! That’s not even close to long enough to judge!

Sorry Baron, you can't play that trump card with me. We have been making trips at least once a year for the past 12, but I was there as a kid in 1972. My experience is plenty enough to judge. I have seen very few, if any, lost things you gripe about that I have not experienced.

even you’ve admitted that lately (I think since ’98 you said) things have been going to pot a lot quicker! How is it that you clearly saw it last week, but suddenly this week the ‘big picture’ evidently got a whole bunch bigger?

Once again, as much as I can realize some of the changes, some of the questionable decisions, the big picture hasn't changed IMHO. Sometimes when things get shaken up the picture gets a bit cloudy. However, when you let things settle down you realize that the big picture hasn't changed.

Let me guess. When the Bears did so well two years ago I bet you were on the band wagon. Last year you probably disowned them. You see, you have to take the good with the bad. You can't go to Disney, drink in the Magic and have a wonderful time, better than you could have anywhere else, and then come back and disown them. You can't let your picking negate what you know to be the big picture. It's not too late my friend. You don't have to drive Car #3 forever. You know you don't belong there .

 

[BRERALEX]

or, said, another way "Uncle Mikey's pimpin' you" (although more and more, Uncle Mikey might also be saying "Boy, pimpin' ain't so easy anymore"...)

OK!!!!!! aside from being the daddy of the chicken finger movement. Im also the daddy of mike=PIMP. the parks are his stable and the wand above spaceship earth is his pimp stick!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!