Neurologist's recommendations for getting DD to sleep...

[graygables]

I'm putting on my flame suit, as I'm sure I'll need it, but here's a little background. Youngest DD (just turned 7) has NEVER been able to self-soothe and fall asleep. Ever. When she was a baby, she'd startle, have night terrors, stay awake all night, scream all night, then scream all day b/c she was exhausted. We tried it all (she is my 4th after all, I've so BTDT with the other 3) and nothing, but rocking worked. Once she reaches a certain level of relaxation, I could lay her down or leave her and 4 or 5 out of 7 nights she stays there (the others, she has nightmares and comes to our bed). I had her to the point where she would fall asleep on the daybed in my studio while I worked and that was pretty good, but she started having night terrors and sleepwalking again, so I reverted to the "cuddle on the couch" thing. She's asleep on the couch now.

She was recently dxed ADHD (although there's evidence that it's bipolar) and the neurologist gave me a "sleep plan" after she completely humiliated DD by telling her that big girls don't sleep with their mommies (in a snide tone). Her plan is for me to sleep on DDs bedroom floor for a month. Yeah, right. She went through this elaborate, I sleep in there for a week, then I get up after 10 minutes and go do a load of laundry and come back and sleep all night, etc . You get the idea. I get precious little sleep as it is, I'm 40, and, quite frankly, I have no business sleeping on the FLOOR for a month. I'm lucky if I get any rest in a bed. Sheesh. We did try it a few nights after DD said, "You're supposed to sleep on my floor, the doctor said so.", but she still couldn't do it, so I gave it up.

So, DD sleeps on the couch after being "cuddled" (BTW, she latches onto my arm so tightly that she leaves indentations when I pull it away, she is terrified of sleep). When she falls asleep like this she rarely, if ever, sleepwalks and has fewer night terrors. No, she doesn't watch horror movies (like my mom seems to think), but she is very sensitive to frightening things. We were just in the party store getting some things for her birthday and she was a basket case by the time we left (before finishing) b/c of all the halloween stuff they had around.

Any suggestions? Any opinions on the neurologist's "plan"? Anyone else have an ultra-sensitive child and how do you handle it?

 

[HeatherH]

Graygables, I'm sorry, and I do understand.

I currently have an older daughter (12) trying to sleep on the floor in my room right now because she has a thunder and lightening phobia, and we have had just a VERY slight amount of both tonight. No rain at all. She does have other diagonoses but this phobia is new. We deal with it.

It sounds like your current doctor is not helping at all, I also agree YOU should not be sleeping on her floor. Any child who canNOt self-soothe at that age, honestly, has other issues. My currently phobic child (with other issues), in most circumstances, has had no problems sleeping at all, and could "cry it out" and self-soothe before 12 months.

I am sorry for what you are going through, I'm sure it must be VERY frustrating. My only advice is to try a better psychologist/psychiatrist.

Good luck to you.

 

[tiggersmom2]

{{HUGS}} sweetie. My oldest son had "night terrors" and slept with us until he was 9. NO.....it was not ideal, but he DID outgrow it. He is 11 (almost 12) and has been very happily sleeping in his own room. At first we started off with his own twin bed in our room.....then....we encouraged him to go to sleep with his favorite movie on in HIS room....this is how we were able to make the transition.

 

[momof2inPA]

Tell your neurologist you would like her to come sleep on your daughter's floor for a month.

Really, I would stick with what works and find a new neurologist. As you work out your daughter's daytime issues, maybe she'll be more relaxed and sleep better, but tackling the day and night issues at the same time seems like a lot for a seven year old. Good luck.

 

[barkley]

o.k. i'll get my flame suit out as well. my son did fine sleeping when he was a baby. as a toddler (and preschool student) he would lay there for hours. you could tell he was exhausted but he could not get to sleep-he was also diagnosed with adhd. our pediatrician and the psychologist conferred and decided to put him on a medication that was slightly sedating. their theory was that he had gotten into a cycle wherein he had so much sensory overload by the end of the day he just could not relax enuf to sleep and as a result messed up his sleep cycles. we tried this for a few months and gradualy he was able to relax and fall asleep, we then began to skip nites with the meds (and we never let him know it was a sleep med, we called it his allergy pill) until he no longer had to take them.

sleep problems are so tough-i just don't see getting bent out of shape if you find a method that works for you and the child (kid sleeping on the couch, kid sleeping with you). they are ultimatly going to hit an age when they want to be in their own bed (i've not read any posts about problems with a 12 year old still wanting to sleep in mom and dad's bed). i have sleep problems myself-i can fall asleep much better during the day or if there is noise in the background so i tend to fall asleep with a t.v. on or right after dh and the kids leave in the morning.

best of luck with this situation.

 

[golfgal]

I'd find a new neurologist. Nice comment about sleeping with your mom for a child having problems. Not only can't she sleep now he is making her feel bad about it. Poor kid! If she needs to sleep on the couch, let her sleep on the couch. I would think that eventually she will out grow this as she matures and has a better grasp on what is real and possible vs what isn't possible like Frankenstein and monsters.

 

[hentob]

Please find a new neurologist. Her snide comment to a poor child that has sleep issues is inappropriate. What an unprofessional clod!

 

[snoopy]

Good Lord. Put the child in your bed or wherever else the both of you are able to get some sleep.

I'm sorry the neurologist treated you and your DD so poorly.

My kids were always good sleepers in their own beds but I know many people who struggle with this. I used to be turned off to the family bed, but hey, what works for one family might not work for another....if the child is so terrified without you I see NOTHING wrong with letting her sleep next to you. She'll outgrow it eventually.

Big hugs for you! Parenting is so tough sometimes!!!

 

[floridafam]

If she is bi-polar then is she seeing the appropriate Dr. for that? Are all the Dr.'s on the same page?

 

[mrsltg]

You already know the answer... dump the neurlogist and let your child sleep wherever she is comfortable. She's not getting up because she's interested in what else may be going on, she's doing it because she's terrified. Have you thought about see a psycholigist to help get to the root of the terrors?

Good Luck!

Erin

 

[powellrj]

let her sleep on the sofa if thats what helps her. A 40 year old woman can't sleep on the floor for a month and function during the day. You agree that she is too old to be sleeping with you, you need help and ideas NOT snide comments. Hugs to you. As someone who has had sleep issues for most of her life, I feel so much for you and your DD. Good Luck.....

 

[Frantasmic]

Can you get a couch, futon, or other foam-cushiony piece of furniture for her bedroom?

It seems she is able to self-comfort with the softer cushions from a sofa. Find something similar for her bedroom and perhaps she and you can get some sleep.

Nothing wrong with moving things around for what works.

 

[simpilotswife]

Honestly I think that you should be consulting a psychiatrist not a neurologist for your DD. The sleep disorder sounds anxiety related which could be why she displays bi-polar tendencies. A psychiatrist is much more qualified to diagnose and treats those types of issues (including ADHD) then a neurologist.

 

[Christine]

No flames from me. I do think a new doctor would be in order. The doctor defintely seems "old school" and not willing to look further at issues that would be causing this behavior.

Has your child been checked/tested for sensory integration disorder?

 

[The Mystery Machine]

I think we are all in agreement that at 7, you need to find the root of the problem and not worry so much about the symptoms right now. Heck, I would by the kid a couch for her bedroom instead of a bed.

She needs a good psychiatrist that is familiar with sleep issues, if one exists. Find someone that fits you and your dd like a glove. It may take awhile. Sometimes we just don't mesh with our doc's and need to find someone who "gets it".

 

[Maleficent13]

What else is going on while she sleeps on the couch? TV on? Glow from the computer? Subtle noises of other people going about their lives? All of this is soothing...can you recreate any of this in her room? Also, how does she sleep on the couch? Maybe she likes the security of something against her back? Just offering suggestions...I am no expert. Just hope you both can get some sleep soon and she gets some relief from her terrors.

 

[mickeyboat]

Have you talked this over with her pediatrician, too? Has she been checked for allergies or large tonsils, adenoids? I know of a little girl who had terrible sleep problems until she had her tonisils out.

I also agree it is time to find a new neurologist, maybe a counselor of some sort, who will really work with your child to discover what is causing these problems, and what would be a good solution for them.

No flames from me, my babies were terrible sleepers, and I would do whatever it took to get some sleep. I rocked Hannah to sleep every night until she was 3.

Hugs to you, Denae

 

[Wishing on a star]

I agree that you may not be seeing the right Doctor! Even if it comes down to the fact that your DD does need a 'neurologist' for a bona-fide physiological neurological impairment. I agree with everyone else that the Doctor that you have been seeing is NOT the one that you should return to.

He is a neurologist, not a pediatric psychologist. (HUGE difference) Sounds like he is WAY off base, out of his specialty, and playing 'Super Nanny'.!

You know, sometimes the little simple things can help. Here is one thing that comes to mind. Do you think your DD could possibly fall asleep on the couch without all the extended 'cuddling'??? How about trying this, and if it works, then actually MOVE the couch into her room. (Would it be possible to buy a new one for your living room????) At this point, your DD may have developed a kind of 'aversion' to the whole 'Bed' sleeping thing. If the couch is a comforting to her, and is a way to bypass this, then it would definately be worth consideration.

Also, if 'isolation' seems to be an issue, ( I didn't want to use the word 'separation'.) do you always make sure to leave her bedroom door wide open to alleviate that sense of being isolated or separated? Is her room like back in the back by itself, or is it right off the living room or your bedroom. where she can actually see and hear you?

Best Wishes for your DD!

 

[Disney Doll]

I'd stick with what you have determined works most of the time, get a new neurologist. The one you have sounds like a dope quite frankly.

I also agree that it sounds as if whatever other issues your daughter has that trouble her during the day spill over into the nighttime.

I would presume you are taking her to a good psychiatrist/psychologist to work on the other issues. Sounds like she could have something in the autism spectrum.

The bottom line is that neither of you can do anything without adequate rest. Is it the bed that scares her? Is she able to doze off on the couch during the day without difficulty? It may seem silly, but if a bed is the cause of her anxiety, how about putting a couch in her room as an alternative? What happens to her at night? Can she verbalize it? What are her dreams about?

I am not one for advocating excessive medications for children, but the suggestion of a mild sleeping pill which might help her relax and be able to sleep might not be a bad one. It seems like anxiety is what's interrupting her sleep, so something to decrease the anxiety or increase the level of relaxation might be the ticket to her and you getinga better night's sleep and thus having more energy to work on other issues.

Good luck!!!

 

[graygables]

Thank you, everyone, for your responses and support! I'm overwhelmed!

It is so interesting that a few of you mentioned autism spectrum b/c my 9yo DD is Aspergers. She, unlike this one, though, must go to sleep at a certain time and gets very upset if the routine isn't right. Just goes to show how each child is certainly unique. I will start looking into that and bring it to the doctor. I've already dumped the neurologist. We only went to her b/c the reg ped wouldn't "prescribe" any educational interventions which we were needing to get her started on her IEP process.

A few more details, the neurologist did tell me to try giving her melatonin at night. I have and she seems to fall asleep faster, but still with that death grip on my arm. She had her tonsils and adenoids out year before last (they thought that would help), but had a very bad time after surgery which compounded problems. Also, any sedative-typed meds seem to have a reverse effect on her. Codeine, benadryl, phenergan all seem to rev her up. She did NOT get that from me, I'm sleepy just naming them!!! We put a daybed in her room, so she'd have the "back", with lots of pillows and a bed rail, in case falling out was a worry. I finally moved a TV in there so she could watch DVDs (only quiet ones), but still no dice.

Thank you all again for your responses. It's given me hope and some good ideas for a new direction!