Need to get caught up on DVC ownership changes, been away a while

[SFlaDisneyfans]

Long story short, we owned at Saratoga resale for years. Lived in Fl and used DVC for long weekends. Moved to NY and decided to sell DVC as we made almost 75% profit compared to our original purchase price. Fast forward to today. My daughter teen does travel/sleepaway camps each summer. She wants to do a travel camp next summer to Hawaii. Its going to run 7-8k. My mind starts calculating. Maybe buy back in to DVC and instead of sending her to camp in Hawaii next summer use newly purchased DVC to stay at Aulani instead. Instead of a one-time disposable cost of 8k, that becomes half or a third of a decent contract and we start going back to Disney every year or two.

As a previous owner I understand cost of ownership, how it works, and I have seen the increased price movements in resale contracts (nothing like the FED printing press running 24/7). My questions is can someone direct me to a link to current changes resale/direct, reviews of the various current resale brokers (or specifically ones to avoid if any), and resale changes in general since the big 2016 change. We used the Timeshare Store last time and they were great (both purchase and sale) but there inventory is scarce. The stickied info thread doesnt seem to be updated beyond 2016 changes. With resale price inflation, direct doesnt look as totally horrendous as it once did.

Resale Riviera would lock me out of the OG 14 (such as Aulani) if I read correctly so that would defeat the purpose. Direct Riveria though would allow me to hit Aulani? It also looks like dues have really sort of compressed as the cheaper dues resorts have played catch-up. Hilton Head doesn't look as bad as it used to (relatively) when compared to the steep discount on resale point prices on the Orlando resorts.

Thanks in advance for any info or links that can be tossed me way.

 

[CarolynFH]

Scroll down and read various threads on this board as you wait for responses to your questions. I can't answer very many of your questions except to confirm that yes, direct Riviera would allow you to hit Aulani, and yes, it appears that in some cases buying direct at various resorts isn't that much more expensive than resale. I'd also caution that unless you want to use HHI points to stay at HHI most of the time, you not buy there - look at the dues relative to WDW resort dues, and keep in mind the risk of hurricane damage and special assessments there.

 

[redboat45]

I think the biggest change right now (supposedly temporary) is that you can only borrow up to 50% of your next use year points. You already know about the restriction on the resorts with resale points. You also can't get any of the perks with resale points (reduced AP price, Moonlight Magic etc.)

The list of resale places is the same as 2016 so you can still go by that list.

 

[SFlaDisneyfans]

Scroll down and read various threads on this board as you wait for responses to your questions. I can't answer very many of your questions except to confirm that yes, direct Riviera would allow you to hit Aulani, and yes, it appears that in some cases buying direct at various resorts isn't that much more expensive than resale. I'd also caution that unless you want to use HHI points to stay at HHI most of the time, you not buy there - look at the dues relative to WDW resort dues, and keep in mind the risk of hurricane damage and special assessments there.

Thanks. Personally I wouldn't mind doing Hilton Head for some golfing. When we owned Saratoga we were always able to find another resort to stay at if we felt like swapping out. That hasn't changed has it? You can still swap between resorts as long as availability exists, correct?

 

[SFlaDisneyfans]

I think the biggest change right now (supposedly temporary) is that you can only borrow up to 50% of your next use year points. You already know about the restriction on the resorts with resale points. You also can't get any of the perks with resale points (reduced AP price, Moonlight Magic etc.)

The list of resale places is the same as 2016 so you can still go by that list.

Really? Why did that change happen?

 

[redboat45]

Really? Why did that change happen?

the 50% borrowing changed last year after the shut down. Too many points in the system. Hopefully it will be back to normal by next year but there's no guarantee. Just want to make sure you take that into account of how many points to buy.

Also, you can get direct point discounts with both Rivera and Aulani. They are also converting some Grand Floridian rooms into DVC so you'll be able to buy direct there (with discounts probably) next year maybe. You can buy all other resorts direct too but don't get much of a discount if any and they're REALLY expensive!

 

[TheEnforcer92]

Resale Riviera would lock me out of the OG 14 (such as Aulani) if I read correctly so that would defeat the purpose. Direct Riveria though would allow me to hit Aulani?

Correct, Resale Riviera only allows for you to stay there in comparison resale at any of the Original 14 would still allow you to utilize the 7 month window for all other resorts but Direct Riviera grants you that flexibility.

PM'd you a link as well!

 

[Marionnette]

Thanks. Personally I wouldn't mind doing Hilton Head for some golfing. When we owned Saratoga we were always able to find another resort to stay at if we felt like swapping out. That hasn't changed has it? You can still swap between resorts as long as availability exists, correct?

And that's the operative phrase: as long as availability exists. It is becoming more and more difficult to switch to other resorts at 7 months. That's not to say that it is impossible, you just need to be flexible with your dates and selection of resorts. Some resorts will always be easier than others just because they're larger. And then there are some resorts where people who own there purchased for the sole purpose of using their points at their home resort.

 

[CarolynFH]

Thanks. Personally I wouldn't mind doing Hilton Head for some golfing. When we owned Saratoga we were always able to find another resort to stay at if we felt like swapping out. That hasn't changed has it? You can still swap between resorts as long as availability exists, correct?

As others have said, availability at 7 months has been an increasing problem in recent years. Given the high MFs at HHI, it's not really worth buying there unless you want/need 11 month advantage there (necessary in the summer, for instance) and want to spend most of your points there. Or if you expect to sell before the high dues year after year add up to be more money than what you saved in purchase cost.

 

[Sandisw]

The other change is that to get the membership extras such as discounted AP, special member events including the Epcot lounge; dining and merchandise discounts, you have to own at least 150 points direct.

Resale leaves you out of that. Those don’t matter to everyone as there are other ways to get discounts. But, resale points also leave you out of any future resorts..although the new VGf rooms are being added to the same association so we all believe those won’t be restricted for resale.

One benefit of direct besides being used at RIV and new resorts, assuming the price difference is within range for you is the ability to use a Disney Visa and not only get rewards but 6 months interest free and keep your cash longer.

Now that the resale prices are creeping up, the difference for some resorts is not as large as it once was!

 

[Nabas]

As others have said, availability at 7 months has been an increasing problem in recent years. Given the high MFs at HHI, it's not really worth buying there unless you want/need 11 month advantage there (necessary in the summer, for instance) and want to spend most of your points there. Or if you expect to sell before the high dues year after year add up to be more money than what you saved in purchase cost.

I'm not so sure about HHI. There always will be buyers who are willing to pay less upfront and more year-by-year.

People are passing ROFR at HHI at $70pp. A lot of resale contracts are selling for double that. On a typical 160-point contract, that's an $11K savings upfront.

 

[DL1WDW2]

You should compare the current sales incentive offered . I think this ends soon on August 4 but the direct sales offer is worth checking for Riviera and Aulani.

 

[SFlaDisneyfans]

Thank you everyone.

 

[SFlaDisneyfans]

As others have said, availability at 7 months has been an increasing problem in recent years. Given the high MFs at HHI, it's not really worth buying there unless you want/need 11 month advantage there (necessary in the summer, for instance) and want to spend most of your points there. Or if you expect to sell before the high dues year after year add up to be more money than what you saved in purchase cost.

I ran a 10-year analysis and with the large gap up in resale point costs of the Orlando-based resorts, combined with the dues catching up with HHI and VB, the math isn't as bad as it used to be. Quite the opposite actually. I based this on a 200 pt purchase and estimates of resale point costs based on looking at various reseller websites. I then modeled in 10-years of dues with historical CAGR. Cost of ownership is cheaper than BCV, OKW, AKV, BLT, VGF and RIV (using VGF dues CAGR since we dont have historical data). BWV, SSR, and VWL (Boulder Ridge now I guess) come in at or slightly below HHI. Beyond 10 years you will see the dues at HHI overcome its much lower cost per point relative to the others. Also if resale prices revert to the mean and non-HHI resorts with lower dues have prices fall at a great percentage than HHI the value of HHI will drop. As always with anything financial, its about the time variable.

 

[sethschroeder]

Beyond 10 years you will see the dues at HHI overcome its much lower cost per point relative to the others.

I think the thing missed though is the value of the contract when you sell it in 10 years.

HHI with 10 years left is going to be fairly low value while places like VGF/CCV/RIV will still have a fairly good value on the resale market.

 

[_auroraborealis_]

She wants to do a travel camp next summer to Hawaii. Its going to run 7-8k. My mind starts calculating. Maybe buy back in to DVC and instead of sending her to camp in Hawaii next summer use newly purchased DVC to stay at Aulani instead. Instead of a one-time disposable cost of 8k, that becomes half or a third of a decent contract and we start going back to Disney every year or two.

And i'm going to address this not from a DVC ownership perspective, but from a choices/priorities perspective. Owning a long-term timeshare and going to Aulani is not even close to the same experience as a travel camp in Hawaii. She is likely to be among young women her own age at the travel camp, and it won't be the fully sanitized version of Hawaii (and Aulani is very much packaged and sanitized). It is likely to include adventure activities that are not offered at Aulani and would be off-site, and, again, likely not with a group of peers of her own age.

I think this may come down to a "priority for use of the income" by the family, but it's a false equivalence to say "visiting Aulani is a like replacement for a travel camp for young women." And it's certainly cool to make the decisions that are correct for your family; owning DVC again could very well be a better long-term play than sending your daughter to a camp. But it is a very different offering and experience.

 

[sethschroeder]

Hawaii next summer

What happens if rooms are not available? AUL was shut down for a while, people avoided Hawaii for a while, and people have extra points.

Also at this point buying resale I saw was taking 4 months so you are already cutting it close to having points in time to book at 7 months. That was 4 months for WDW it might be longer for Hawaii not sure you would have to check.

 

[SFlaDisneyfans]

I think the thing missed though is the value of the contract when you sell it in 10 years.

HHI with 10 years left is going to be fairly low value while places like VGF/CCV/RIV will still have a fairly good value on the resale market.

Agreed but i cant find a way to properly model that future value.

 

[SFlaDisneyfans]

And i'm going to address this not from a DVC ownership perspective, but from a choices/priorities perspective. Owning a long-term timeshare and going to Aulani is not even close to the same experience as a travel camp in Hawaii. She is likely to be among young women her own age at the travel camp, and it won't be the fully sanitized version of Hawaii (and Aulani is very much packaged and sanitized). It is likely to include adventure activities that are not offered at Aulani and would be off-site, and, again, likely not with a group of peers of her own age.

I think this may come down to a "priority for use of the income" by the family, but it's a false equivalence to say "visiting Aulani is a like replacement for a travel camp for young women." And it's certainly cool to make the decisions that are correct for your family; owning DVC again could very well be a better long-term play than sending your daughter to a camp. But it is a very different offering and experience.

I know it isnt the same. She goes to travel/sleepaway camp each year and has done so for many years. Matter of fact she got on the plane today for two week camp touring California. She has an interest in Hawaii which came up as a possible destination tour next year which started me down this rabbit hole.

 

[SFlaDisneyfans]

What happens if rooms are not available? AUL was shut down for a while, people avoided Hawaii for a while, and people have extra points.

Also at this point buying resale I saw was taking 4 months so you are already cutting it close to having points in time to book at 7 months. That was 4 months for WDW it might be longer for Hawaii not sure you would have to check.

Valid point.