need some advice for what to do!!?? (sorry, long)

[tiggersmom2]

I really can't see the value of punishing her for something that may be beyond her control. Whether you want to believe it or not ADD is not a "made up" problem. It doesn't mean you have to medicate your dd if that is the diagnosis but you should understand that if her brain functions differently than yours it is not her fault.

I have a son with Asperger's syndrome. I don't know if you think that is "made up" also. I long ago learned (with seven children you do learn quickly) that each child is different and what works for one child may not work for the other.

I too have a problem with leaving you daughter behind while you go to Disney with your sons. It might make her feel like she is being punished even further. Why not wait until school is over so the whole family can take the trip together.

For goodness sakes.......why do you feel it is any of your business why the woman takes just her DDs or DSs on vacation?!! I can tell you right now it is absolutely NONE OF ANYONE'S business how she takes her vacations.

Seems to me that a few posters are ticked at the OP's opinion of medications and illnesses. While I may not agree with her on the subject, I am not going to find any little thing to rip into her about and question her parenting skills b/c she chooses not to take ALL her kids to WDW at the same time. Sheesh!

 

[mickeyfan2]

I would let her do the after school stuff until the Dr. diagnosis. Let her know that this is the deal. If he finds nothing then end it then. I am thinking that she may have some sort of attention problem that the Dr. can address. You are doing the right thing and exs like to

 

[Toby'sFriend]

Heck - I took a Disney vacation without any of my kids and I sure did look forward to it.

I'd recommend at least hearing what the Doctor says. If you don't agree with it, then you can always find another Doctor or do your own thing. It surely won't hurt anything to go and see.

If you can find the right Private School, that is certainly another option to consider. I moved my son to a Religious School in 5th grade. Where he is -- they are quite rigid. They do not accept undone homework and will pull recesses and give detentions until it is done and done to an acceptable level.

They also have the power of "Jesus is sad when you don't use your God Given abilities" in their arsenal and they aren't afraid to use it.

My son has thrived in this environment, but it is not for everybody.

 

[tiff211]

pyrxtc, I have been there. I know how frustrating it is. Especially when you have little ones who demand your time as well. I agree with you about ADD. As soon as you say your DC is not paying attention in school, getting bad grades, everyone is quick to say ADD. I know my DD could sit and watch tv for 12 hours straight, talk on the phone in the same spot for 4 hours, read a Harry potter book in one sitting, etc. Things she wanted to focus on she could. In school her priorities were to be the class socialite so when the teacher was telling the class to hand in their homework, she was too busy talking. She had a wake-up call because she got kicked out of the gifted program in 7th grade and was throughly embarrassed. She could do the work, they just didn't like the fact that she didn't apply herself the way she should.

I took away many of her extra activities and she was complete unphased. She was in a program called Girls only, where they deal with peer pressure, body hygenics, boys, etc. It is a fun club, they go on outing, paint nails, etc. I knew that pulling her out wouldn't really help her grades, so I didn't but if she hadn't showed me completed homework assignments, she would miss that week. She missed a couple of weeks but she did a lot better. I think you should leave her in the program unless you absolutely believe that taking her out will improve the situation.

She is now living with her father due to alot of other issues as well as school. I don't care for our school system here and she has improved tremendously in the month she has been there. I miss her like the dickens though.

Good luck to you and know that you are not alone!

 

[Planogirl]

For goodness sakes.......why do you feel it is any of your business why the woman takes just her DDs or DSs on vacation?!! I can tell you right now it is absolutely NONE OF ANYONE'S business how she takes her vacations.

Seems to me that a few posters are ticked at the OP's opinion of medications and illnesses. While I may not agree with her on the subject, I am not going to find any little thing to rip into her about and question her parenting skills b/c she chooses not to take ALL her kids to WDW at the same time. Sheesh!

I normally agree with you about something like this but she did ask for opinions and her question is awfully narrow.

What if the daughter has a condition that is causing her to have the problems in school? What if she just plain can't help it no matter what privileges are taken away?

 

[Certifiable WDW Nut]

That is why I was thinking strict Catholic school next year. A little more discipline never hurt anyone.

You are absolutely entitled to your opinion and your parenting, but I can't sit here and not tell you that I feel very sorry for your daughter.

I truly believe most kids at that age really want to do well and please the people they love - you, her father, her teacher. I know my DD essentially had a nervous breakdown in kindergarten because she was trying so hard to please everyone but the chemical imbalance in her brain wasn't letting her. I could see she was doing everything she could, but every other comment from her kindergarten teacher was "You have to know that to go to 1st grade." It was awful. We had her repeat kindergarten in a new school the next year. (Told her when you change schools, you have to start over.) Not because she didn't know the material, because she did, but because we wanted to build her self esteem up and make sure she LIKED school. If they don't like school at that age, they will never like it. I also have to say it worked. She still has significant challenges in math and will tell you she doesn't like math, but she reads at a 12th grade level and is in honors language art, history and science. Pretty good for a kid who was told almost everyday she was going to flunk kindergarten.

It seems to me, between removing her from the afterschool program, sending her to a "strict" school next year, and instilling the sense she just has to work harder when in fact there may be other issues in play, you are ensuring she will never like school. Because of that I feel sorry for her and you also. You probably have a tough road ahead of you.

BTW, my DD has not been on medication for a couple of years now. We used it to help her get through the tough years when she was learning how to focus and learning study management techniques. She still has some challenges (she threw away her retainer for the 3rd time this weekend), but she loves school and has learned how to manage her condition most of the time.

ADHD is a real disease, as is alcoholism, depression and drug addiction. In fact, I don't have the statistics in front of me, but there are an awful lot of undiagnosised ADHD sufferers who eventually become alcoholics and drug abusers as a means of self medication. It really is very sad.

 

[Wishing on a star]

I agree with this last post.

If the OP's DD does indeed have some type of a problem, (be it ADD or vision or hearing or learning disability) that is causing her to have these difficulties, then she is setting her DD up for a heartbreaking disaster.

My DS has a learniing disability, and, like the last poster said, if I had been punishing him, and coming down hard on him, and taking away the one potentially helpful thing that he was involved in, it would have been devastating!!!!! Even without those things, he had a very devastating and traumatic year at school last year, until I got everything diagnosed and ironed out with the school.

I have a question for the OP... Why are you even going to go have your DD evaluated if you are going to completely ignore any diagnosis???

Another thing, about the homework right after school. I am sorry, but school can be very demanding. Especially if a child is struggling. Yet you want the teacher to take away the childs downtime (recess), and then you want your DD to walk in the door and 'immediately' sit down and do more work, without any chance to unwind, physically, emotionally, psychologically???

I am sorry, but being a slave-driver is not the answer. You can't get milk from a rock. And there is no sense in beating a dead horse.

 

[RadioFanatic]

That is why I was thinking strict Catholic school next year. A little more discipline never hurt anyone.

You are absolutely entitled to your opinion and your parenting, but I can't sit here and not tell you that I feel very sorry for your daughter.

I truly believe most kids at that age really want to do well and please the people they love - you, her father, her teacher. I know my DD essentially had a nervous breakdown in kindergarten because she was trying so hard to please everyone but the chemical imbalance in her brain wasn't letting her. I could see she was doing everything she could, but every other comment from her kindergarten teacher was "You have to know that to go to 1st grade." It was awful. We had her repeat kindergarten in a new school the next year. (Told her when you change schools, you have to start over.) Not because she didn't know the material, because she did, but because we wanted to build her self esteem up and make sure she LIKED school. If they don't like school at that age, they will never like it. I also have to say it worked. She still has significant challenges in math and will tell you she doesn't like math, but she reads at a 12th grade level and is in honors language art, history and science. Pretty good for a kid who was told almost everyday she was going to flunk kindergarten.

It seems to me, between removing her from the afterschool program, sending her to a "strict" school next year, and instilling the sense she just has to work harder when in fact there may be other issues in play, you are ensuring she will never like school. Because of that I feel sorry for her and you also. You probably have a tough road ahead of you.

BTW, my DD has not been on medication for a couple of years now. We used it to help her get through the tough years when she was learning how to focus and learning study management techniques. She still has some challenges (she threw away her retainer for the 3rd time this weekend), but she loves school and has learned how to manage her condition most of the time.

ADHD is a real disease, as is alcoholism, depression and drug addiction. In fact, I don't have the statistics in front of me, but there are an awful lot of undiagnosised ADHD sufferers who eventually become alcoholics and drug abusers as a means of self medication. It really is very sad.

Wow. That was beautifully said. I couldn't have said it better myself. Thanks from all of us who either use medication to heal themselves or have loved ones who do .

 

[Living with the Land]

One thing you might want to consider about the catholic school is the amount of work that is done is often more then what she would be doing in regular school. In my daughters school 3rd grade has an average of 2 hours work a night and that is working at a good pace. If she works slowly now then she could get very behind. My DD is in kindergarten and has about half an hour a night now. The catholic school is strict but is often fast paced as well. You may want to go tour the school soon and see how the curriculum works.

Holly

 

[tiggersmom2]

I normally agree with you about something like this but she did ask for opinions and her question is awfully narrow.

What if the daughter has a condition that is causing her to have the problems in school? What if she just plain can't help it no matter what privileges are taken away?

I agree if the dd has a condition that is causing her to have problems in school then the OP should take the advice of her Dr. and do everything she can to help alleviate her child's problem. However, that is probably NOT going to happen since the OP is dead-set against meds for ADD. She explained it, I don't agree but respect her opinion (I don't agree with people who don't vaccinate either).

I don't see the need for other posters to pick at her about why she isn't taking her DDs to WDW. That is neither here nor there in relation to her dd's behavioral problems in school......that was all I was trying to say.

 

[LBAK]

I have a now 19yo and reading the OP it could have been my daughter. Yes, she has ADD, no I did not medicate her. I worked like heck on tons of behavior modification and it paid off.

I would not take her out of the after school program. She is probably very frustrated with school and it's overewhelming her. She needs to feel confident about herself. IMO she should be in any activity that makes her feel good about herself. It's important for them to feel they can succeed in something.

As for Catholic school, I looked into that route and you may be suprised to find out that it she is diagnosed with something that they might not enroll her. Our Catholic school did not have resource room teachers or other special ed staff in their building. I would have had to pick her up early on a specified day and bring her to the local elementary school in order to get her services. Catholic schools in NY at least are under the jurisdiction of the local school district. I was happy they didn't want her. Public schhol was a struggle but she graduated and now is a very productive young adult.

I guess I'm saying boost her self esteem, it will help with the way she views her struggles, let her stay in her after school program and you don't have to necessarily medicate. Good luck in whatever you decide, it's a hard decision.

 

[golfgal]

I am not a big fan of medicating kids either, HOWEVER, I have seen a couple of extreme cases where the medications did WONDERS for some children and to automatically rule that out might not be in the best interest of your DD. From what you have said, I don't think, from this long distance, that her case is that severe anyway. There are other things that can be done for mild ADD cases, if that is what she has.

She sounds a LOT like my oldest, who we had tested for everything under the sun because he wasn't turning in homework, his grades were WAY below what he was capable of, etc, etc. He does not have ADD/ADHD or any other learning disabilities, he is just lazy.

If it were my child I would let her stay in the friendship program for now until you get some answers. If she can't get her work done for some reason, punishing her isn't really right. If her tests come back with no physical problems, then by all means take her out of things until she gets her grades up.

I would also work on organization skills with her, especially an assignment notebook where you sign when she completes the homework and the teacher signs when your DD has turned everything in and has written the next days assignments in the notebook.

 

[tinkerbellmom31]

her previous Dr told me last year that it was a phase and she would eventually grow out of it. Now no flames please for the next part of my response......

I agree with your post and have been struggling with my 11yo dd. She is in the 5th grade and is failing math and SS this quarter. The policy in her school is they are not allowed to participate in any school activities until they are passing. I totally agree and it is making her work alittle harder. I know she can do better and she feels so much better when she is doing well its just getting her to do it. Sadly her dad and I were the same way makes me wonder if its hereditary. Good luck and just hold firm. I would not allow the program. I feel bad for my dd sometimes but she has to work harder.

 

[pyrxtc]

I have a question for the OP... Why are you even going to go have your DD evaluated if you are going to completely ignore any diagnosis???

Another thing, about the homework right after school. I am sorry, but school can be very demanding. Especially if a child is struggling. Yet you want the teacher to take away the childs downtime (recess), and then you want your DD to walk in the door and 'immediately' sit down and do more work, without any chance to unwind, physically, emotionally, psychologically???

I am sorry, but being a slave-driver is not the answer. You can't get milk from a rock. And there is no sense in beating a dead horse.

She will be evaluated and then we will work on things that we need to. i ddi not say I would not do anything. There are many ways to answer a single question and mnay forms or healing for someting that is wrong.

She does not struggle in school, she just likes to talk and have fun instead. If she didn't do her homework right away it wouldn't get done in time. I ahve tried to have her do it after playing but it makes it take longer than ever. She does get a snack and tells me about her day before going into the homework.

 

[golfgal]

If you are going to switch your DD to another school, don't assume that the discipline is going to be better then what you have. They also might not have the services that your DD needs available to them. I know the Catholic school my kids attend is not well equipped to deal with kids with learning issues/disabilities.

Also, from some of your other posts I am wondering if this is a way for your DD to get your attention. You said that you can't sit and help her because of the boys. Could that be the root of a lot of the problem, you are spending more time with the boys and not enough with her? It looks like your boys are young but maybe a 1/2 hour of a television program or reading a book on a couch for them might help your dd and it certainly won't hurt them any.

 

[pyrxtc]

Thank you all. I will keep her in the program until any diagnosis is made. I was really upset about her report card this quarter and she has only missed one meeting so it can easily start back up on next Monday. i will find another way. A lot of me thinks it's not ADD and just laziness. She wants to be miss socialite when she should be doing other things.

 

[geetey]

As the parent of a child with a learning disability in the Catholic school system, I suggest you look very closely at the school you are considering. Some Catholic school are not set up to handle children with an LD. They can only teach to the 'middle of the road' child.

My dd was spending 3-4 hours a night doing homework in 1st grade (this same homework took other children 10-20 minutes to complete). I spent HOURS sitting at the kitchen table with her, working through each problem, making sure everything was done, completely, placed in her folder, and ready for school. Her brother (2 years younger) also spent HOURS at the table - coloring, playing with playdough, painting with water, whatever - because my dd *needed* my attention. I know he was young but I explained that he had my time during the day, so right now I *had* to help his sister. I think your two boys could learn this same theory. "A needs my help right now, so I need you to both play cars nicely here on the floor." Or duplos or whatever. It isn't fair to your daughter.

My ds actually was ahead of the game when it came to school because he spent SO much time listening to me work with our dd.

Our 1st Catholic school did not have IEPs, nor did they support anyone with an LD. It was the parents' job to do that. Their attitude - if the student can't keep up, they need to go elsewhere. They were also big into worksheets -- lots and lots of paperwork, 'busy work' as one teacher called it.

We have moved to a different state and chose our new Catholic school, partly based on the LD program they have in place. It is AMAZING the things *any* school can do for a child, if they care too. She had a classroom partner to help make sure EVERYTHING is in her backpack for at home. They use assignment books (initialled at the end of each day). They have 2 learning consultants to help the kids learn coping skills specifically based on the child's diagnosis.

My point is... don't think because it is a Catholic school that they will be better for your daughter. Stricter isn't always better.

Should you continue the afterschool program? As a parent who's after-school time was at a premium, because I knew I needed to spend a lot of time with my dd, I limited her activities based on what we had to accomplish at home. If you are unable to give her more of your time at home, what difference does it make if she is doing crafts at school 1 on 1 with an adult, or playing at home?

Once you have a diagnosis from your doctor, by law, your school is required to provide more assistance (whether it is preferred seating in the classroom to oral testing) based on that diagnosis. Medication does not have to be a part of this solution. If it isn't, you do need to do other things to help. Medication was not recommended for my dd, but I feel like I have completed 1st through 5th grade all over again! She is currently in 6th grade, doing wonderful and, for the first year, I don't feel like I am actively relearning/reteaching everything to her. All of the hard work is really paying off.

PM me if I can help in any way and good luck!

 

[geetey]

She will be evaluated and then we will work on things that we need to. i ddi not say I would not do anything. There are many ways to answer a single question and mnay forms or healing for someting that is wrong.

She does not struggle in school, she just likes to talk and have fun instead. If she didn't do her homework right away it wouldn't get done in time. I ahve tried to have her do it after playing but it makes it take longer than ever. She does get a snack and tells me about her day before going into the homework.

With a diagnosis, the teacher will have to move her out of that social circle, and up close to her desk. That should really help you out.

I am the same as you. Gotta get started on the homework right away, otherwise the night slips away! We discuss the day on the home from school, have a snack and then get started on homework. ANY playing/tv time/video games etc. takes place AFTER all homework is done. Yep - that means she usually can't go outside to play, but it is way too hard to get refocused and back into school work otherwise.

If the teacher can't/won't help (we had one of those teachers and she only had 16 students as well!), could you set up a reward system at home? One focused on the effort?

 

[Christine]

I wanted to make a comment regarding not medicating and something you said in one of your earlier posts.

When my DD was diagnosed with "mild ADHD" in 4th grade, the psychiatrist who was lead on her team of physicians said that she was "borderline" and could probably get by without medication. She told me that there was lots of behavior modifications that could be done--rewards systems, structured ways of doing homework, home-taught exercises for attentiveness, etc. I was told that I could attend some classes and they would teach me what to do.

After I looked at all the material, I realized that I was in the same boat as you. I work full-time as does my husband. We both have long commutes and, at the time, we had (and still have) a younger child that also required time with us in the evening. We just don't have 2-3 hours to spend on homework each night.

We realized (sadly) that we just did not have the time to handle this. Now, I will tell you, as a mother, that is a really hard thing for me to admit: My life was so busy that I did not have the time to commit to my child.

So, I guess I took the easy way out. Got her a small dose of medication and it totally turned her around. I could have also spent a lot of time sitting with her each night and had the same results.

The reason I am bringing this up is certainly not to change your mind about medication because I think you are set on that and I have no problems with that choice, but I bring it up because of what you mentioned about your sons. It sounds as if you are very busy in the evenings, as I was, and you don't want them to be ignored because your daughter requires your attention. This is just something you are going to need to think about and discuss with your doctor when you have this appointment.

You could very well be correct and that your DD is just lazy and is a socialite. But be prepared that she may just be wired differently and the reason she "appears" lazy and a socialite is because ANYTHING and EVERYTHING will distract her. And yes, ADHD people *can* focus for periods of time if push comes to shove. I see it in one of my co-workers who has adult ADHD. He often takes medication "holidays". For the most part, he falls apart but if there is really, truly an emergency he can pull it together for about 30 minutes but he says it is sheer torture. No one can talk to him and he pretty much has to lock himself up in the office with NO distractions. So, yeah, you might be seeing some glimmers of achievement in your daughter and think "oh well, see, she's fine." That really doesn't mean anything.

I will echo what I said in my earlier post and what another poster said: Most 9-year old children want to please people and do well in school.

Oh, and I've seen plenty of my DD's "socialite" friends be straight A students. Being social and having good grades are not mutually exclusive.

 

[luvmy2sams]

The friends program is like big sisters. She gets lots of adult attention between here and her fathers or Nonny's. They will only do fun stuff and whe i suggested that maybe they talk about her scholwork or that the adult could help her with it, the director of the program called to tell me that it was not what the program was for. And unless I remind her evry Monday mornig that she has the program that day, she will just come home and not even think about it.

Sounds like a great program and a chance for your DD to have another adult confidante. However, I wonder how successful this punishment would really be if you don't think she'll even miss it. My DD7 has a working list of her activities, and she would definitely miss those that are important to her. ETA: Glad to read that you are waiting on diagnosis, etc. before pulling your DD from this program.

As for the discipline issues in school, I would be going over DD's teacher's head with this. If the teacher isn't holding up his end of the bargain (not checking homework, not halting the excessive socializing), then it needs to be brought to the counselor's...principal's...super's attention until someone decides to take your concerns seriously.

Good luck in getting this resolved.