Need info on CARES system

[JJ&JSMOM]

I've done a search - lets just say there are a lot of "cares" in threads. Needless to say I didn't find much.

Just wondering if anyone knows how I can get some info on the CARES system? The airline changed our seats and it looks like we're in the row after an exit row which I think car seats are not allowed. This is just making me sick. The issue of using a car seat was never a difficult one for me - since day one I wanted DD2 to be in a car seat now I'm not sure if I can use one. The rest of the plane looks booked else I'd change our seats.

Thanks for any help - it is appreciated.
Joanne

 

[lil mermaid]

You can order the CARES system from www.kidsflysafe.com

If you would still rather have your DD in the carseat (and if you have a one year old, I personally would), just call the airline and explain the situation to them. I am sure they will change your seats for you under those circumstances.

 

[tjmw2727]

The airline has to accomodate the carseat especially if you booked appropriate seats and they moved you. You could call now call now or just have them change you at the counter or at the gate. If your carseat is FAA approved and the child is ticketed then they will place you in a seat where you can use it.

OTOH if you fly often then the CARES harness looks like a great option - but its pricey - about $75.00 and only useful on aircraft.

TJ

 

[FatElvis]

I just bought it but haven't used it yet (I'll let you know next week!). It seems pretty good - it's pricey for what it is, really - just that same strap that airplane seatbelts are made of, but I guess that's safe. I bought it since I'll be traveling alone with 3 kids (ACK!!) and I feared my 2yo wouldn't sit still. It is pretty easy to attach, I practiced on a recliner.


Found this review:
http://babyproducts.about.com/od/travel/gr/CARES_harness.htm

 

[JJ&JSMOM]

My travel agent called US Air and a car seat is ok in a row behind an exit row just not in an exit row. What a relief. The CARES system does sound good but pricey. If we would be flying again in the next year I'd buy it but for just one trip I think we'll take her carseat.

What a relief - thanks for the replies I appreciate it!!!

 

[NotUrsula]

My travel agent called US Air and a car seat is ok in a row behind an exit row just not in an exit row. What a relief.

Oh, I REALLY wouldn't trust that this is correct. It might be or might not be; but I would put a good deal of money on a ticket agent not knowing, because the rule depends on the aircraft in question. Here's why:

The "row in front of the exit row" prohibition applies on all commercial aircraft because the backs of those seats need to fold forward to allow clear egress through the door; if there is a carseat in one of those seats it cannot fold. The "row behind the exit row" prohibition depends on the model of aircraft: it is enforced on planes where the exit door has to be pulled INSIDE of the aircraft when it is opened. In those cases the person opening the door is instructed to heave it backward over the exit row seats so that it will rest in the row behind without sticking up too far; if there is a carseat in the row behind then the door won't clear the exit row completely.

Federal law requires that the airline provide you with a "proper berth" for your approved carseat if you have purchased a seat to place it in. What this means in practice is that FA's are empowered to force people to switch rows with you in order to accomodate the proper location of the carseat. They don't like doing it, but they will if it is called for. In this situation, what is most likely is that they will have the occupants of the row behind you switch with you, one for one.

 

[JJ&JSMOM]

Oh, I REALLY wouldn't trust that this is correct. It might be or might not be; but I would put a good deal of money on a ticket agent not knowing, because the rule depends on the aircraft in question. Here's why:

The "row in front of the exit row" prohibition applies on all commercial aircraft because the backs of those seats need to fold forward to allow clear egress through the door; if there is a carseat in one of those seats it cannot fold. The "row behind the exit row" prohibition depends on the model of aircraft: it is enforced on planes where the exit door has to be pulled INSIDE of the aircraft when it is opened. In those cases the person opening the door is instructed to heave it backward over the exit row seats so that it will rest in the row behind without sticking up too far; if there is a carseat in the row behind then the door won't clear the exit row completely.

Federal law requires that the airline provide you with a "proper berth" for your approved carseat if you have purchased a seat to place it in. What this means in practice is that FA's are empowered to force people to switch rows with you in order to accomodate the proper location of the carseat. They don't like doing it, but they will if it is called for. In this situation, what is most likely is that they will have the occupants of the row behind you switch with you, one for one.

Its an Airbus A319. I looked on Seat Guru for the Airbus A319 and the exit row is row 9 and we're in row 11 so that looks ok. BUT when I looked at the diagram showing all the seats that are booked that are booked thus far on US Air's website it shows rows 9 & 10 as exit rows so then we're in row 11 - that would be the problem. I just don't know which diagram is correct.

I'm not sure who my TA spoke with - I certainly would hope that a ticketing agent would know especially if they're filling seats for adults and children. But that probably is not the case!

I wouldn't mind switching seats but it might break up another family that wants to be together. I'll check more into it. Thank you for the information - I do appreciate it!

 

[NotUrsula]

I certainly would hope that a ticketing agent would know especially if they're filling seats for adults and children. But that probably is not the case!

You would think so, but that really isn't how it works. The "no kids in the exit row" rule is widely known by ground-based staff, but that is usually the only seating rule that is, and that is because it is a PR issue since those seats are so popular with frequent fliers.

IME, even FA's sometimes don't really know the details of the carseat placement rules; a junior FA will sometimes tell you one thing, but the lead FA may show up 10 minutes later to tell you that the first FA was mistaken. Gate agents and ticket agents are not normally taught about these things because they don't work on board the planes -- the assumption is that since the FA's have authority to enforce safety rules, they will.

 

[JJ&JSMOM]

You would think so, but that really isn't how it works. The "no kids in the exit row" rule is widely known by ground-based staff, but that is usually the only seating rule that is, and that is because it is a PR issue since those seats are so popular with frequent fliers.

IME, even FA's sometimes don't really know the details of the carseat placement rules; a junior FA will sometimes tell you one thing, but the lead FA may show up 10 minutes later to tell you that the first FA was mistaken. Gate agents and ticket agents are not normally taught about these things because they don't work on board the planes -- the assumption is that since the FA's have authority to enforce safety rules, they will.

Thanks for the info. I'm not sure what we'll do now. On the transportation board they suggested I go to the flyertalk forum and ask my question over there. Not sure if anyone can help me - seems like we won't know until we go! I wonder what they'll do w/our car seat if they won't let us use it in our assigned seat. Maybe gate check it - who knows. Thanks again!

 

[NotUrsula]

I wonder what they'll do w/our car seat if they won't let us use it in our assigned seat. Maybe gate check it - who knows.

They will move you to a legal spot. They legally CANNOT deny the use of an approved carseat if you have paid for the space -- so don't let them try to tell you to gate-check it. (That happens a lot, too, especially on smaller aircraft.)

As you board, mention to an FA that you are concerned that your seat assignments might not be legal for the carseat. The FA will double-check, and if so will move folks as necessary before you get the seat installed.

 

[all4fun]

I don't know what airline you're flying but on our last trip home the airline had separated dh, ds, and myself in three separate rows. DH called a few days before the flight and they actually changed our seating for us. Now, unfortunately we still didn't get seated all in the same row, but at least one of us could sit next to ds (who also had his car seat). I'm sure they will work it out for you...if not beforehand, they will have to when you're at the gate. Best of luck and remember this is just a short part of your entire trip! Try not to stress. I know how hard it is!!

 

[JJ&JSMOM]

Thanks everybody for your advice. I'll try not to stress over it - I just don't want to be separated from my DD2 (DH will have seats w/DS7 & DD4 so I know they'll be w/him) because of a car seat. I'm pretty sure if they move her - they will move me too. Trust me they will hear it from her if they do . May still buy the CARES harness just in case - that might take my worries about the seating away and we could all sit together w/no issues.
We have family w/younger children so it would probably get plenty of use.

Thanks again.


Joanne

 

[skjuls]

I have the CARES system and it is very easy to install.

I usually have to lug around the sit n stroll all by myself and it can get heavy at times. I don't mind if I am traveling with another family member but usually it is just me and my 3 year old.

A pro for the CARES sit that my son cannot kick the seat in front of him. The Con is that he can easily get out of it.

It's pricey but worth it for not having to lug the carseat with me everywhere even though mine is also a stroller!

 

[NotUrsula]

Yes, if her seat must be moved, they will move you, too so that you are next to her -- that is also required by law if a child is strapped into a carseat. (Note that it is NOT required if they are not strapped into a carseat, though in practice most airlines will not seat a child who is under 5 without an adult in the party being seated beside the child.)

 

[dis-happy]

I once had my seats moved so that me and two children were seated in the middle seat in three different rows. The airline staff did nothing to help, but believe me, as soon as I pointed out to the passengers that if no one wanted to move someone would have to sit next to an unattended two year old and I wished them well. Needless to say people were more than accomodating, so try not to worry!

I also had a crazy flight attendant tell me my car seat wasn't usable two rows behind the exit row. It was ridiculous. But instead of arguing with the FA (too much or a chance of getting kicked off these days) I relinquished the seat (not that big a deal to me, we really travelled with it due to the rental car). The FA had offered to move us---to the very back row. I really think he wanted our seats for his friends or something and used the car seat as an excuse. I calmly handed him the seat and asked for a gate check receipt. Row 11 is way better than row 30 next to the bathroom.

Anyway, hope your flight goes well!

 

[JJ&JSMOM]

The FA had offered to move us---to the very back row. I really think he wanted our seats for his friends or something and used the car seat as an excuse. I calmly handed him the seat and asked for a gate check receipt. Row 11 is way better than row 30 next to the bathroom.

Anyway, hope your flight goes well!

WOW! Thats what worries me dealing w/an FA that really doesn't know whats going on! I would have done the same thing - gate check it. In August, when our TA booked our flights she did book us in the last row thinking we would want to be by the lavs. We asked her to change them and again mentioned the carseat so she'd make sure to get legal seats and she did great. Then the airline changed our seats and now I'm not sure.

I know it will work out just fine! I've been reading up on the CARES harness and it sounds great. I'm really just wondering if she'd be comfortable in it. Today is my birthday so my DH has taken the day off to watch the kids and do whatever I tell him. Well guess what - hes going to hear a whole bunch about our trip and the CARES harness (he dislikes talking disney - thinks its all gotten too complicated) !

 

[skjuls]

I've been reading up on the CARES harness and it sounds great. I'm really just wondering if she'd be comfortable in it. !

I don't think that CARES is an uncomfortable harness. Of course, I'm too big to try it but if it was uncomfortable my son would let me know.

Actually, I think my son is more uncomfortable in his car seat than the CARES.

 

[NotUrsula]

If you can avoid the very last row with a carseat, it is best to do so. This is because you might need to get into the seat behind yours if the seat belt's buckle winds up wedged in too tight. (Putting a twist in the strap so that the release faces down usually helps, but sometimes it doesn't work, in which case the easiest way to release it is to go around behind the row and reach UP between the seatback and seat to release the buckle, preferably while someone else puts some weight onto the seat from in front.)

It is a very good idea to print out a copy of the federal carseat use rules so that you have them in writing when challenged. I always kept a *current* printout in an envelope taped to the back of the seat shell. (This was more important when travelling outside the US; foreign employees of US carriers most often are not up on carseat rules.) Obviously, you would want to turn these over very politely and in a non-confrontational manner. The rules are in the Code of Federal Regulations, 14CFR121.311 http://a257.g.akamaitech.net/7/257/....gpo.gov/cfr_2006/janqtr/pdf/14cfr121.311.pdf

Note that those rules do NOT mention which rows (except for the exit row) where seats may not be placed. That is determined by airline policy, and is in the flight attendant's safety manual. If your FA is determined not to look at the manual to check, there isn't much you can do but accept whatever seat you are moved to.

 

[chip007]

We used CARES going to Disney a couple of weeks ago and had mixed results.

On the way down, it was fine, and I was a big supporter. It was easy to transport and install and seemed to do its job well.

On the way back, everything started out fine. One of the flight attendants even came over to look at it because she said they had training about it but she had not seen one in use before.

Unfortunately, my DD, 3, decided during the last 15 minutes that she had had enough and kept sliding down in the seat to try to get out. We had to keep lifting her back in place. CARES did work better at keeping her in the seat than just the seatbelt would have, but I was not happy when she would slide down because the chest buckle would get caught under her chin.

 

[I_remember_E_tickets]

Unfortunately, my DD, 3, decided during the last 15 minutes that she had had enough and kept sliding down in the seat to try to get out. We had to keep lifting her back in place. CARES did work better at keeping her in the seat than just the seatbelt would have, but I was not happy when she would slide down because the chest buckle would get caught under her chin.

Sliding forward on planes with leather seats was a problem for my kids, too, when using the CARES. I solved that by bringing a piece of that rubberized non-slip drawer liner from the kitchen for them to sit on. It really helped keep them from sliding. It would probably help with the sliding issue even if you weren't using the CARES.